I don't understand why people can't let you speak your mind and move on. You're a broken record at this point, but who cares? heh
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Halo |OT10| The Calm Before The Storm
- Thread starter GhaleonEB
- Start date
I don't understand why people can't let you speak your mind and move on. You're a broken record at this point, but who cares? heh
No they're not always equivalent but they can be related. I consider my knowledge of the spawn system to be a skill. Also, learning quicker routes on maps, new ledges and jumps and even executing those jumps at crucial times. Those are skills that I've learned over time.
ncsuDuncan
Member
Quick and dirty, just finished packing and I'm heading to bed. Got a train to catch in the morning.
-------
Music
Lyrics:
Shots spreading and booze
I'm leaving today
I want to go to Comic-Con
New York, New York
With vagabond "Wu"s
Card games I will play
Against the same Humanity
New York, New York
I want to wake up in that city
That doesn't lag
And play some King of the Hill
Capture the Flag
My armor lock blues
are melting away
I'll make a BR start of it
In old New York
If I can dong 'em there
I'll dong 'em anywhere
It's up to you
New York, New York
New York, New York
I want to wake up in that city
That never lags
And find I'm ranked number one
in the playlist
King of the Hill
Ranked number one
These are armor lock blues
are melting away
I'm gonna make a BR start of it
in old New York
And
If I can dong 'em there
I'm gonna dong 'em anywhere
It's up to you
New York, New York
New York
-------
Music
Lyrics:
Shots spreading and booze
I'm leaving today
I want to go to Comic-Con
New York, New York
With vagabond "Wu"s
Card games I will play
Against the same Humanity
New York, New York
I want to wake up in that city
That doesn't lag
And play some King of the Hill
Capture the Flag
My armor lock blues
are melting away
I'll make a BR start of it
In old New York
If I can dong 'em there
I'll dong 'em anywhere
It's up to you
New York, New York
New York, New York
I want to wake up in that city
That never lags
And find I'm ranked number one
in the playlist
King of the Hill
Ranked number one
These are armor lock blues
are melting away
I'm gonna make a BR start of it
in old New York
And
If I can dong 'em there
I'm gonna dong 'em anywhere
It's up to you
New York, New York
New York
And those are perfectly valid skills. I'm not saying they aren't present in all of the Halo games, but I will argue that the depth of those skills has changed. For example, what if in Halo 5 there was an indicator that showed the general area an enemy player is going to spawn in. Your knowledge of the spawn system, a skill, would now be rendered obsolete. Wouldn't that bother you? Don't you agree that the skill gap in that game would, all else being equal, be lowered?
FUNKNOWN iXi
Member
I wish I would've cared enough about Reach to learn these things again ;[
Kind of a bad example, has any game ever shown you where an enemy was going to spawn? lol
You're missing the point.
One thing you should understand is that I never get dramatic over a message board. Imagine me posting everything while smiling in amusement/bemusement, because I usually am.
xxjuicesxx
Member
Only positive viewpoints are appreciated here.
Criticism is bad, criticism scare away devs, which scares away Deadly Cyclones chances of getting hired.
Sure Halo is still an FPS, sure it still uses space marine art assets from the Halo lore. Its a completely different game though from the magic of H1-H3(Sortof H3) for all the reasons BigShow mentioned. It evolved into a hybrid CoH which just laughs in the face of fans of the MP experience of the past. Its sad but with each Halo I find myself further and further away from that younger mindless me who just drooled at the thought of the game and sank nights away. Sure I still play them a lot but its fractured time that adds up and its no longer the same type of fun.
I'm sick of adapting, I can, I just dont want to, I want my old Halo. Scotchy scotch scotch.
I know it's tough after 10+ years of playing Halo, but maybe it's time to move on to something else in the gaming world that fills that urge of extreme skill advancement and learning equivalent. Maybe there are some PC games out there that might fill that void? Take up chess? That's super competitive online. I'm not sure but Halo is going in a totally different direction from what you want and I'm sure it's only going to get worse.
Good luck man.
User 73932
Banned
FUNKNOWN iXi
Member
Imagine with all the changes CoD is starting to make by trying to make it more balanced that in a few games it turns into Halo 1? lol that would be some Twilight Zone shit..
I don't mind your criticism all all, just suprised at how many people jumped at it. Balance is everything, man.
Der Flatulator
Member
Still going on about rotation...
I think it would be much easier to use if we had access to Quaternion values to manipulate rather than Euler Rotations.
Reach had:
I think it would be much easier to use if we had access to Quaternion values to manipulate rather than Euler Rotations.
Reach had:
- Yaw (y-axis) (-90,90]
- Pitch (x-axis) (-90,90]
- Roll (z-axis) (-90,90]
- n_x [-1,1]
- n_y [-1,1]
- n_z [-1,1]
- Rotation [-1,1]
Pop
Member
Lol.
Says the guy whos going around replying things "you mad cuz there ain't colored lego block," when I was posting the exact opposite. Reading comprehension ain't on your side today, eh?
I honestly don't lurk really and never knew you wrote that. My apologizes to quoting and accusing you. My point still stands the majority here sounds like they just dislike forge because there's not lego style color for objects.
ncsuDuncan
Member
When I write song parodies, I usually listen to the original half a dozen times and it inevitably gets stuck in my head.
No thanks.
(Bedtime.)
Yes that would bother me of course. Radar bothers the shit out of me too. These days melee's bother me because they're get out of jail free cards for scrubs who can't shoot. And I'm starting to dislike grenades as well.
And I still believe the individual skill and crazy moments can and do still happen even though they're arguably more difficult to pull off but I don't necessarily dislike how things have been moving towards more teamwork. In fact, I like it. I have guys I've been playing with for years. Teamwork and communcation are skills too.
For what? Just to get rid of gimbal lock? Not worth it. Most people don't even know what it is and just get used to working around it as a quirk of Forge's.
I like your thinking though.
Well there you go. Road to recovery can be bumpy though.
Of course they are; very important and valid skills too. Again though, I would argue (if I had time) that a game more like Halo CE actually requires greater amounts of teamwork and communication. Just because a game forces you to teamshot doesn't mean it requires more teamwork.
To be fair, I haven't considered myself a "Halo player" in a long, long time (since about a year after Halo 2 released). I'm recovered but in danger of a relapse.
The quickest route is denial.
You're gonna have to explain that one. That makes no sense to me. Team shot isn't the only aspect of teamwork but it is certainly an important part of it.
Tomorrow, bed now.
I probably won't see it lol
Then think about this:
What requires better communication and teamwork; two teammates within close physical proximity and visual range shooting at the same target or two teammates coordinating across the map but acting as individuals?
What has greater strategic potential; a team of individuals who can be effective as individuals and utitlize the entire map simultaneously or a team of players who is forced to stay in close proximity?
Every single "team" skill in a game like Halo 3 or Reach is still present and useful in a game like Halo CE; teamshot, bait/switch, decoys. However, the spectrum of viable alternatives is so much broader in a game where individuals can also be effective that the strategic depth is exponentially increased.
Bregmann Roche
Member
I never knew I could throw up out of my ears, but this video taught me that. Thank you fakeWu.
T
Transhuman
Unconfirmed Member
Poe's Law? Genuinely curious.
Sarcasm, although I have more fun with recent CoD games than Halo, despite considering neither of them "competitively viable."
Now, bedtime for reals.
FUNKNOWN iXi
Member
I knew BigShow was going to respond to that comment in the way he did because it's the same thing I was going to say to you. He's not saying it's the only aspect of teamwork Reach has, he's just saying that just because Reach almost requires players to teamshot doesn't mean it takes more skill than previous Halo games.
It can be argued (easily IMO) that Halo 1 takes way more teamwork than Reach ever could and there wasn't such a crippling emphasis on teamshooting.
I'm your Cortana son. Let me guide you along the path of righteousness.
Monocle
Member
I'm not a huge multiplayer guy, but I think BigShow makes a decent argument for a more pure Halo experience. Halo 4 is changing an awful lot in Halo's formula. Its resemblance to a certain rival FPS series is plain to see (I like you Franklez, but to deny the abundant connections between COD and Halo 4's new multiplayer features is just disingenuous), and all signs point to it playing differently, in many subtle and not so subtle ways, than its predecessors. Why shouldn't 343 accommodate players like BigShow as fully as they can? In doing so, they'd enrich the game for everyone. To be more specific, I'm talking about providing, at the least, a comprehensive range of options for custom games, and ideally a generous selection of playlists that emulate as nearly as possible the gameplay of Halo 1 and 2.
It concerns me to see 343 deny players options as basic as toggles for auto flag pickup, HUD elements, and announcements. What do they have to lose by maximizing Halo 4's customizability? This isn't some spiteful attempt to cast 343 as know-nothings; I would genuinely like to understand their reasoning.
"Wait until you play it yourself" isn't a reason, and "we made the decisions we did because playtesting and meetings" is meaninglessly vague.
It concerns me to see 343 deny players options as basic as toggles for auto flag pickup, HUD elements, and announcements. What do they have to lose by maximizing Halo 4's customizability? This isn't some spiteful attempt to cast 343 as know-nothings; I would genuinely like to understand their reasoning.
"Wait until you play it yourself" isn't a reason, and "we made the decisions we did because playtesting and meetings" is meaninglessly vague.
It's not as simple as those 2 scenarios you plucked out. Of course out of those 2 it's the latter but you always strive for more in both scenarios. You want to bait and switch, you want to shoot the same guy when confronted in a 2v2 situation. You can also work together with a further distance between the teammates. Blocking spawns, coordinating flag pulls, protecting a teammate and letting him know about the guys chasing him. It's more blurred than that. All of which may or may not include direct team shot.
Steelyuhas
Member
Hit quote on some posts a while ago, but I'll use this for my opinion on Forge and MM.
Forge maps are always going to be inferior to developer maps, the feature simply can't create developer quality maps, and even with the maps in Halo turning largely to shit in the past couple of games, I've seen very few community Forge maps that are of equal map design as developer maps.
Point is this though, community generated content shouldn't be shoved down people's throats. A community playlist is one thing, but implementing stuff into the core playlists that people don't want is a poor practice.
This is perfect example. No one plays a playlist with Forge maps, no one wants to play Forge maps, the solution is to integrate a hundred of them into all the core playlists. That's some logic right there.
Same here.
Halo 4 is definitely significantly faster than Reach or Halo 3, but I'm not sure I'd agree with your statement beyond that, especially not CE. The pace of play in CE is much faster than any other game in the series, including H4 IMO.
I think you guys are downplaying how much teammwork and teamshot was required in the past and overboard on how much is required in Reach. It's somewhere in between and there are degrees of it from title to title. If you zoom out a little I think you'll see the game hasn't changed all that much in that regard. I can't speak to CE though because all I did was play FFA Prisoner with my friends lol.
ArchedThunder
Banned
I enjoy Forge maps that are good. The problem is most of the Forge maps in Halo Reach matchmaking are bad, it also doesn't help that they are ugly as sin. I think Forge maps have a place in regular matchmaking, they just need to be much more selective in what maps they choose. They also shouldn't overwhelm the number of regular maps.
FUNKNOWN iXi
Member
That's the only game we're talking about lol - Halo 2 began the downfall of competitive Halo (admittedly sounding a little drastic) and not much (in the sense you're talking about) has changed since that game. As much as people say Reach felt like a completely different game, Halo 2 was wayyyyyyy more different from Halo 1 than Reach was from Halo 3.
Halo 1 competitively was in a league of its own. <-- This is what me and BigShow are saying.
Halo 2 and each game thereafter was played very similarly on a competitive level. <-- This is what you're saying and I agree with you.
That's so very true in so very many ways :]
ArchedThunder
Banned
Hell, Reach is closer to Halo 1 than 2 was.
Barrow Roll
Member
Say what you will about the new Forge, but those screens that have been reposted multiple times now are disingenuous since they're all taken in Monitor mode where the lighting isn't baked in yet.
Bregmann Roche
Member
There are forge maps that are better than Spire, Boneyard, The Cage, etc. You seem to agree with me on this since you start the above paragraph by saying forge maps are always inferior, while you end it by saying that there are few community maps that are equal to developer maps.
Agreed to an extent. The percentage of Forge maps in BTB, Super Slayer, and Team Slayer is an embarrassment to the franchise. That said: I don't believe that including one or two forge maps in a given playlist would qualify as "shoving it down people's throats". If the population wants to play them the population will vote for them.
The plan for that playlist was always to use it as a testbed for maps that should or should not make it into the more mainstream playlists. The fact that it had a low population does not itself indicate that people did not want to play forge maps.
Also: many maps that were integrated into core playlists are there because they fill a need. Perhaps they don't meet the standards set by other maps in the franchise, but playlists like Double Team and BTB would be one-note borefests without the addition of the forge maps.
They are gray. They are bland. Many of them are mediocre, but they do have a key role to play in matchmaking.
Looks great! I just pre-ordered one.
BackdoorBeauty
Member
The new forge looks great, but there is no other AAA title that includes user created content as part of the primary gaming experience, afaik. It is probably a good thing, if you think about it.
Don't meet the standards is putting it lightly. Reach shipped with Spire, Boneyard and Forgeworld for BTB. You can't blame Bungie too much, they were pretty sick of Halo by that point. The upshot is that 343 came back on fire with BTB maps.
Don't meet the standards is putting it lightly. Reach shipped with Spire, Boneyard and Forgeworld for BTB. You can't blame Bungie too much, they were pretty sick of Halo by that point. The upshot is that 343 came back on fire with BTB maps.
Steelyuhas
Member
I was saying that some are equal in terms of actual map design, as a whole package (Forge and map design), they are still an inferior experience. You simply don't get the same immersive and visual experience in a Forge map.
Play a key role in matchmaking? Why? They don't need to. There weren't any Forge maps in Halo 2, and I think many would agree it had the most complete set of quality maps.
FUNKNOWN iXi
Member
Steely, pls.
Are you comparing the quality of Halo 2 maps with Reach's? Imagine BTB in Reach without Forge World maps :[ - The role they fill should be left for later once we can determine what we're lacking from the developer maps, so the point is that they do fill a role. It would also be disappointing if these slick spaces were created for not at least one of each to appear in matchmaking.. That wouldn't be fair to the devs or to fans who would agree.
I agree with this. Bungie had the best intentions at heart, but the execution of all these pieces coming together failed..
K
kittens
Unconfirmed Member
Well, I'm giving up on Dishonored. Taking it back to the store in the morning. There's a lot to love about it, but it's also extremely frustrating at times. And not in a fun, challenging way, but in confusing, clunky, counter intuitive ways. But if the Dishonored OT is any indication, I'm the only person who has those complaints, hah.
Might be an unpopular opinion, but the emphasis on Forge maps in Reach undermined the mappacks that released later in game’s lifetime. Defiant, Noble and Anniversary already got screwed by playlist management, but it would have (to some extent is also has) been screwed over by the overreliance on Forge maps.
Even from footage that was released, you could notice that it was janky in places. Strange is that none of the reviews even mention it, like even Giantbom’s Quicklook shows some rough edges. Still hyped to play it though, Europe has to wait till Friday :9
Pop
Member
This is HaloGAF...oh wait
Gemini fan spotted
Something seems off about that game in the videos, just doesn't seem the fun for some reason. But the people seem to be loving it and I love the games its gameplay style is inspired by (Deus Ex, Thief) so I put it on my Steam Wishlist, I'll be giving it a buy when it hits $20 in some crazy Amazon/GMG sale in a few weeks. Heard there's an HQ textures pack coming too.