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[Steelyuhas]

Oh and over at Waypoint HaloLoyalist117 reported a Halo ring in the latest trailer at 0:07 seconds.

Come on son! GAF > Internet > GAF

Late to the party.

 

[Tawpgun]

Actually, what I've always argued for is what all great games do; appeal to both sides.

There's this ridiculous notion that everyone seems to hold that accomodating skill-based gameplay is mutually exclusive to appealing to casual fans. I want Halo to do that, but its not; it's making a mad grab at the nebulous "casual gamer" and is willing to sacrifice long-time, hardcore fans to do it.

I understand the necessity for a broad fan base, trust me. But I also understand that you can create a game that is fun for casuals and incredibly deep and rewarding for elite players.

I feel Halo 4 did this. Yeah you can't make classic CTF, but the core gameplay is there and customizable. And they nailed it.

 

[Bornstellar]

Posted in the gaming-side thread, but I'll repost my thoughts on the gameplay trailer here.

The music in every piece of official marketing has been far too low-key and does not provide the driving urgency you want to produce in a trailer (being as you only have 1-2 minutes to do so).

 

[Hypertrooper]

Come on son! GAF > Internet > GAF

Late to the party.

Dude. Are you trying to steal my job?

 

[blamite]

Thursday War and Halo 3 terminal talk below. Spoilers for both, and speculation on how they relate to Halo 4.

Spoiler

So, according to the terminals, the Librarian died on Earth when the Halos fired, because she was still sending humans to the ark, right? Could that be at least pat of why the Didact hates humans, they kind of caused his wife's death? I was recently reminded of this by Jul 'Mdama in The Thursday war, who's anger at humans comes from his wife's death after he's captured. Interesting parallel there. We now know 'Mdama (whose name reminds me of Bill Adama from BSG) ends up leading a Covenant faction to Requiem to fiund the Didact. What if their common beef with humans causes them to team up against us? The Didact could probably activate all the old, dormant Forerunner stuff the Elites have and use it against us, which could certainly be a bigger danger than the Flood. I'm really interested to see how this stuff all comes together.

 

[Demoncarnotaur]

ITS UP
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V-GzfNgUVHo&feature=plcp
Wow I was the 1st viewer.

=)

Pretty nice. Its no Halo 2 trailer, but its still pretty cool... could have used more.. something.


Anyways, hyped. I'm really liking the voice of the Didact.

First thing I thought of after watching the trailer:

Those shots of the big bad guy force grabbing the Chief...remember this early animation cinematic posted briefly by Nathan Wapole, before he left 343? Showing some guy force tossing dudes around?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8CT2qDfykbA

Hah. How do you like that. Also, scout armor is used by Spartan IV commander in Halo 4, so maybe that's her who gets pulled through the door? Interesting none the less.

 

[Steelyuhas]

I'm about to play Reach, someone save me from this stupidity!

Fake edit: lol, it wasn't even in my recent games list on my Xbox

Real edit: SWAT Magnums? Host migrations prior to the game even starting? Turns off Xbox. See you guys on the 6th.

 

[BigShow36]

I feel Halo 4 did this. Yeah you can't make classic CTF, but the core gameplay is there and customizable. And they nailed it.

As far as I can tell, the upper-tier gameplay isn't there. There needs to be a large aiming skill gap, and I just don't see it. That's what I'm talking about.

 

[Booties]

I feel Halo 4 did this. Yeah you can't make classic CTF, but the core gameplay is there and customizable. And they nailed it.

Walks past flag to clear out base to set up a run.

walked too close. Now has an inaccurate pistol.

Nailed it.

 

[Hypertrooper]

Thursday War and Halo 3 terminal talk below. Spoilers for both, and speculation on how they relate to Halo 4.

Spoiler

So, according to the terminals, the Librarian died on Earth when the Halos fired, because she was still sending humans to the ark, right? Could that be at least pat of why the Didact hates humans, they kind of caused his wife's death? I was recently reminded of this by Jul 'Mdama in The Thursday war, who's anger at humans comes from his wife's death after he's captured. Interesting parallel there. We now know 'Mdama (whose name reminds me of Bill Adama from BSG) ends up leading a Covenant faction to Requiem to fiund the Didact. What if their common beef with humans causes them to team up against us? The Didact could probably activate all the old, dormant Forerunner stuff the Elites have and use it against us, which could certainly be a bigger danger than the Flood. I'm really interested to see how this stuff all comes together.

Have you read Primordium? Primordium Spoilers:

Spoiler

The Librarian lives.

 

[Tawpgun]

I still want Didact and MC to become battlebros.

As far as I can tell, the upper-tier gameplay isn't there. There needs to be a large aiming skill gap, and I just don't see it. That's what I'm talking about.

Light Rifle.

Walks past flag to clear out base to set up a run.

walked too close. Now has an inaccurate pistol.

Nailed it.

CTF's biggest flaw. Happened to me twice when I played. But other than that I like the new CTF. Flagnum is only innacurate if you spam like a madman. Thing shoots faster than the Reach pistol and maintains its accuracy.

 

[Homeboyd]

with crocodiles!!! and ewoks!!!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-kl4hJ4j48s&t=1m25s

Edit: Damn, that song goes hard in the paint.

Dude. Are you trying to steal my job?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=768h3Tz4Qik

Ok. I'm done shitting up the thread.

 

[Ozzy Onya A2Z]

Actually, what I've always argued for is what all great games do; appeal to both sides.

There's this ridiculous notion that everyone seems to hold that accomodating skill-based gameplay is mutually exclusive to appealing to casual fans. I want Halo to do that, but its not; it's making a mad grab at the nebulous "casual gamer" and is willing to sacrifice long-time, hardcore fans to do it.

I understand the necessity for a broad fan base, trust me. But I also understand that you can create a game that is fun for casuals and incredibly deep and rewarding for elite players.

I think you're just being a little close minded mate. No player is going to get 100% of everything they want. As far as competitive goes 343i have:

1. Increased base speed
2. Returned strafe effectiveness
3. Increased jump height without the Halo 3 floating
4. Increased base damage
5. Increased the time to get back into the battle
6. Multiple playlists and settings to cater to new and "old vanilla" settings (within close approximation)
7. Skill matching via trueskill is definitely in there and not just a copy of Halo 3 or Reach.
8. A broader sandbox with multiple precision weapons being very close to balanced.
9. Returned hitscan
10. Reduced double melee and CQB bullshit
11. Focused on gunplay as the priority in player battles
12. Reduced Reach nuclear grenades and grenade spam
13. Rebalance the power of a individual solo power players but still heavily reward teamwork over the top of that
14. Created new maps already looking far better than the Reach launch maps
15. Promised to deliver customisation and competitive settings out of the box on day 1
16. Invited MLG pros, default competitive players, media personnel, community members and anyone who cares to attend an event to provide feedback on their respective sub-communities.
17. Devoted resources to every segment of the major Halo sub-communities, moreover than the Bungie resources for Reach e.g. Flood, Grifball, Slayer Pro, Infinity Slayer, new Objective gametypes.


Honestly I think I could really keep going with these points. If you can seriously sit there are say you're not over 80-90% happy with the decisions 343i have taken to stamp out their version of Halo then I have to label you a spoilt brat really.

I just don't see this lack of support for competitives, honestly if you spend time in the MLG forums you'll see "true competitives" can't even come to a consensus. What do you expect from the developer exactly?

 

[Steelyuhas]

Have you read Primordium? Primordium Spoilers:

Spoiler

The Librarian lives.

Wow, that kind of ruins one of few things I liked in Halo 3's narrative.

 

[Bornstellar]

Watching the trailer again, the editing really is pretty terrible.

What happened to the guys who did Halo 2's marketing?

 

[Omni]

Can anyone or their "buddies" confirm this?

I hope it's not true.


It's almost as if 343i sat down, asked themselves what people liked about Halo and did the opposite.

Theater in campaign to film those awesome moments / speed runs and whatnot? Cut it!
An open world where things happen a little differently every time? Put in QTEs and scripted sequences instead!
Open areas in Forge? Let's give them shitty little areas with terrain that's completely impractical!
Getting put in games where people are at your skill level so everyone has a good time? No!
Campaign scoring to make coop a little more competitive? Hell no!


etcetera.

Fuck me

/super salty

 

[Tawpgun]

Wow, that kind of ruins one of few things I liked in Halo 3's narrative.

Spoiler

She lives in Primordium. Who knows what the fuck is going to happen at the end of Silentium

I think the Halo 3 Terminals haven't haven't happened yet in Greg Bears novels.

 

[AllIsOneIsNone]

Thanks for that u4ix. I agree, to keep the future of the franchise in tact it needs to appeal to both sides of the spectrum. If you do that and still maintain a certain level of balance: golden. I know my friends have always had a tough time getting into Halo; I've played thousands more games than them so the disparity is huge. Halo 4 seems to make things clearer to the player and gives intuition (and of course general fps ability) a more important role.

Team downer will tell you this closes the skill gap. First off, there are more advanced playlists like slayer pro for those people, second off closing the skill gap a little isn't bad if a great player can always beat a significantly less skilled player. If it was illustrated in a graph, ideally there would be an immediate exponential style rise in results for a beginner, then maybe a more steady skill increase over a longer period of time, and finally a decay at the end after hundreds of games have been played and a players skill becomes "near perfect". I think Halo 4 will come closer to that ideal progression than previous Halos, where the learning curve is pretty damn difficult and slow at the start.

So why do we want beginners to have a slight upper hand in relation to experience? Because we want Halo to continue existing, like u4ix said. Call of Duty exists, other shooters exist. If we want a big budget Halo, it has to adapt, and from what I've seen that's exactly what 343 has done. I'm not ignoring valid complaints; there are a lot of things I would have liked to see that are gone. But for gods sake, I can't read this thread anymore. It seems like some people like to wallow in their pain.

 

[u4iX]

I still want Didact and MC to become battlebros.

Spoiler

What if The Didact, knowing Cortana is a deteriorating AI that will eventually need to come to an end, transfers his memories and experiences into Master Chief like he did with Bornstellar, making him the new voice and "conscience" in your head in Halo 5 and 6, as you go on to not only protect humanity, but the Forerunner as well. Uniting both the Human and Forerunner forces to fight against a covenant resurgence.

 

[Omni]

Spoiler

What if The Didact, knowing Cortana is a deteriorating AI that will eventually need to come to an end, transfers his memories and experiences into Master Chief like he did with Bornstellar, making him the new voice and "conscience" in your head in Halo 5 and 6, as you go on to not only protect humanity, but the Forerunner as well. Uniting both the Human and Forerunner forces to fight against a covenant resurgence.

Naa. Forerunner were too arrogant for that to happen.

 

[The P of Poland]

Spoiler

What if The Didact, knowing Cortana is a deteriorating AI that will eventually need to come to an end, transfers his memories and experiences into Master Chief like he did with Bornstellar, making him the new voice and "conscience" in your head in Halo 5 and 6, as you go on to not only protect humanity, but the Forerunner as well. Uniting both the Human and Forerunner forces to fight against a covenant resurgence.

Spoiler

Nope.

 

[Steelyuhas]

Spoiler

She lives in Primordium. Who knows what the fuck is going to happen at the end of Silentium

I think the Halo 3 Terminals haven't haven't happened yet in Greg Bears novels.

Oh, that's obviously okay then. Can anyone confirm this timeline in Tawp's post?

 

[blamite]

Have you read Primordium? Primordium Spoilers:

Spoiler

The Librarian lives.

Oh yeah, I had totally forgotten abut

Spoiler

that stuff with 343 at the end. Huh... It'll be interesting to see how/if Silentium explains that. Interesting... I don't have my copy of the book on hand, but it's supposed to be referring to the actual Librarian herself, and not a geas, right? Well now I'm really interested to see how this all shakes out.

Oh, that's obviously okay then. Can anyone confirm this timeline in Tawp's post?

Big, big Primordium spoilers follow:

Spoiler

At the end of the book, a new copy of 343 Guilty Spark takes over a UNSC ship to (quoting Halopedia) "resume his quest to find the Librarian and retrieve the old spirits of Riser and Vinnevra. Asserting that the Librarian is actually alive, he puts the crew to sleep and has the ship proceed to her location." http://www.halopedia.org/Primordium

 

[Fracas]

Does the Infinity have its own AI?

Obviously ignore this post if this knowledge was obtained from leaked vids. Only talking about from what we've seen so far.

 

[Steelyuhas]

Does the Infinity have its own AI?

Don't all UNSC ships have one?

 

[Flipyap]

Wow, that kind of ruins one of few things I liked in Halo 3's narrative.

That's just an assumption based on a vague line. He's talking about a book in which

Spoiler

dead people live on as voices in other people's heads and others become multiple adorable little robots.

tl;dr for 2 out of 3 books in the Forerunner Trilogy: we didn't learn shit about shit, see you in March.

 

[BigShow36]

I think you're just being a little close minded mate. No player is going to get 100% of everything they want. As far as competitive goes 343i have:

1. Increased base speed
2. Returned strafe effectivenes

Compared to what? Reach? Halo 3? Neither of those games is what I want.

4. Increased base damage

Uh... the BR is a 5sk as is the DMR.

5. Increased the time to get back into the battle

Irrelevant to actual skill.

7. Skill matching via trueskill is definitely in there and not just a copy of Halo 3 or Reach.

Skill matchmaking doesn't work if the game isn't adequately rewarding skill.

8. A broader sandbox with multiple precision weapons being very close to balanced.

As with any game where the aiming is easy, players will quickly determine the best weapon out of the starting choices. There's nothing relating to skill in picking a weapon.

12. Reduced Reach nuclear grenades and grenade spam

I like powerful nades, but I also like fast base movement speed so you can avoid poorly thrown grenades.

13. Rebalance the power of a individual solo power players but still heavily reward teamwork over the top of that

How so? An individual is not going to be able to take on more than one enemy, assuming competent players.

14. Created new maps already looking far better than the Reach launch maps

Perhaps, but again, Reach isn't exactly the golden standard here.

15. Promised to deliver customisation and competitive settings out of the box on day 1

I don't even know what this means.

16. Invited MLG pros, default competitive players, media personnel, community members and anyone who cares to attend an event to provide feedback on their respective sub-communities.

Did they actually alter gameplay based on that?

 

[The P of Poland]

Does the Infinity have its own AI?

Obviously ignore this post if this knowledge was obtained from leaked vids. Only talking about from what we've seen so far.

We have yet to see anything that confirms this.

However, UNSC ships are usually issued one, and it would make no sense for the flagship of the fleet to go without.

Spoiler

Also, from Thursday War, it would seem that BB can act in that capacity

 

[Ozzy Onya A2Z]

Thanks for that u4ix. I agree, to keep the future of the franchise in tact it needs to appeal to both sides of the spectrum. If you do that and still maintain a certain level of balance: golden. I know my friends have always had a tough time getting into Halo; I've played thousands more games than them so the disparity is huge. Halo 4 seems to make things clearer to the player and gives intuition (and of course general fps ability) a more important role.

Team downer will tell you this closes the skill gap. First off, there are more advanced playlists like slayer pro for those people, second off closing the skill gap a little isn't bad if a great player can always beat a significantly less skilled player. If it was illustrated in a graph, ideally there would be an immediate exponential style rise in results for a beginner, then maybe a more steady skill increase over a longer period of time, and finally a decay at the end after hundreds of games have been played and a players skill becomes "near perfect". I think Halo 4 will come closer to that ideal progression than previous Halos, where the learning curve is pretty damn difficult and slow at the start.

So why do we want beginners to have a slight upper hand in relation to experience? Because we want Halo to continue existing, like u4ix said. Call of Duty exists, other shooters exist. If we want a big budget Halo, it has to adapt, and from what I've seen that's exactly what 343 has done. I'm not ignoring valid complaints; there are a lot of things I would have liked to see that are gone. But for gods sake, I can't read this thread anymore. Some people like to wallow in their suffering it seems.

That is the essence of it really. "Pro massive skill gap" players fight for a I want to win 10 out of 10 times because I have practised for 10 years. Alternatively the newer or less "skilled or practised" players simply want to feel like a fair fight and no one wants to play a game where they go 0 kills and 10 deaths every time until their skill leaning curve gets then 5 kills and 5 deaths after say 100 matches.

The developers know this and even in Reach with all that garbage "competitives" spew out the "more skilled or experienced" player still walked away with more than 7/8/9 out of 10 kills.

I've posted many times in many forums but look back to Mario Kart and it's in the lead weighting for slowing you down, giving the blue shell to last place player etc. Now look at "real life" sports and tell me handicaps don't exist for a reason? Formula One = handicaps in the form of car designs, car expense, tire changes etc. Golf = handicaps for "casuals" while the "professional" tournaments do away with handicaps for the sake of competition. Boxing = handicaps in the form of weight divisions etc etc

Once you actually step back and realise you're not the only one playing or watching Halo 4 you can see just what a fine job 343i are doing with this fine line of balancing sub-communities and game mechanics.

 

[DeadNames]

u4ix is my man crush confirmed.

I wanna be in team SLRP. Where do I sign up?

 

[User 73706]

u4ix is my man crush confirmed.

I wanna be in team SLRP. Where do I sign up?

*zip*

 

[Ozzy Onya A2Z]

Does the Infinity have its own AI?

Obviously ignore this post if this knowledge was obtained from leaked vids. Only talking about from what we've seen so far.

Makes you wonder if there are other Spartans with AI's in their suits too? You'd think the Infinity and its personnel would be totally kitted out.

 

[u4iX]

u4ix is my man crush confirmed.

I wanna be in team SLRP. Where do I sign up?

I'm Team Slush. Salt that's been slurped.

 

[Steelyuhas]

That's just an assumption based on a vague line. He's talking about a book in which

Spoiler

dead people live on as voices in other people's heads and others become multiple adorable little robots.

tl;dr for 2 out of 3 books in the Forerunner Trilogy: we didn't learn shit about shit, see you in March.

Yeah I read the first one. It was mediocre. Don't really plan on reading the second or third one after that.

 

[DeadNames]

I'm Team Slush. Salt that's been slurped.

Team SLSH.

SLSH SLSH SLSH FTW.

I'm making my tag SLSH come Nov. 6.

 

[Ozzy Onya A2Z]

Compared to what? Reach? Halo 3? Neither of those games is what I want.

While I thank you for your demeanor and time to reply I have to ask one simple question...

You don't like Halo 3 or Reach and you're already saying you don't like what you know about Halo 4, so why are you even interested in Halo exactly?

What you want Halo 2 back online?

 

[External Memory]

Trailer was nicer than I expected.

Cortana has quite the butt.

She has a butt. Calm yourself.

 

[The P of Poland]

While I thank you for your demeanor and time to reply I have to ask one simple question...

You don't like Halo 3 or Reach and you're already saying you don't like what you know about Halo 4, so why are you even interested in Halo exactly?

What you want Halo 2 back online?

BigShow did not like H2 either. He wants a CE clone. He has stated this numerous times.

 

[User 73706]

She has a butt. Calm yourself.

Cortana butt is the ancient evil.

 

[thetrin]

I'm very excited for Halo 4, but "The future of gaming" is such an inane quote for the trailer.

 

[DeadNames]

I'm very excited for Halo 4, but "The future of gaming" is such an inane quote for the trailer.

I'm sure every game these days is "the future of gaming".

 

[Ozzy Onya A2Z]

BigShow did not like H2 either. He wants a CE clone. He has stated this numerous times.

Seriously? BigShow I hope you know those game mechanics aren't portable directly to online play right?

It's the reason for every Halo game since the developers have changed up hitscan, melees, projectiles, latency thresholds etc etc.

I think the mods should give him a new tagline "Rose coloured nostalgia glasses".

 

[Pop]

So now it's a good thing to not be able to drop the flag. I guess I'm just going to have to Deal With It. Not, that sounds whack.

Could have at least got an option in customs.

 

[Enfinit]

default competitive players

What is a "default competitive player", and how does it differ from an "MLG Pro" or "community members"?

 

[AllIsOneIsNone]

So now it's a good thing to not be able to drop the flag. I guess I'm just going to have to Deal With It. Not, that sounds whack.

Could have at least got an option in customs.

That was the only thing I disagreed with in u4ix's video. I'm not even much of a ctf player, but I think it's a valid complaint.

 

[Hypertrooper]

Spoiler

She lives in Primordium. Who knows what the fuck is going to happen at the end of Silentium

I think the Halo 3 Terminals haven't haven't happened yet in Greg Bears novels.

Have you read the book? Primordium Spoiler:

Spoiler

Guilty Spark knows where she is in Halo 3's time. She survived the time frame of the Terminals.

 

[The P of Poland]

Need to finish my essay tonight or risk throwing myself way off schedule for the week, but I've caught a major case of writer's block... ugh.



Fuck it, heading to bed. Night everyone.

 

[feel]

She has a butt. Calm yourself.

Wrong and nope.

 

[Tawpgun]

Have you read the book? Primordium Spoiler:

Spoiler

Guilty Spark knows where she is in Halo 3's time. She survived the time frame of the Terminals.

Dude primordium bored me so bad I must have glazed over half the book.

Hope Silentium is as fun of a read as Cryptum was.

 

[Hypertrooper]

Dude primordium bored me so bad I must have glazed over half the book.

Hope Silentium is as fun of a read as Cryptum was.

I hope it does. The book description sounds pretty cool. At least for me.