Everytime some decent action happens it goes blurry.
The Scattershot melee animation looks like the shotgun animation, which is cool.
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Halo |OT8| A Salt on the Control Room
- Thread starter The Librarian
- Start date
The Scattershot melee animation looks like the shotgun animation, which is cool.
HiredN00bs
Member
What I am saying is that TrueSkill, while used to rank players, isn't directly responsible for matching them. It is used to match them, but how it is used varies from game to game. You have people here praising Halo 3 Ranked matchmaking and decrying Halo: Reach non-Arena matchmaking, both of which use the TrueSkill system, which hasn't changed, so what is the only logical conclusion?To an extent though, your posting that it "technically" exists, but thats not really good enough. Whether trueskill technically exists or not is one thing, if its been implemented so poorly it might as well not exist is another. I am personally glad there's no ranks in Reach, because the idea is so laughably bad. Competitive Reach would be awful.
With Halo 4 though, even if they don't have a ranking system, I hope they tighten up the invisible trueskill, and give some indication of the players ability on the other team. I was playing Black Ops yesterday, and even though they don't have skill based matchmaking, at a click of a button you can see a lobby leaderboard showing K/D, Score Per Minute, they're last match results, and you can then quite easily choose specific people and view a complete overview of they're career, including overall win/loss etc.
My point is, after seeing if someone is good, you know when its time to turn your A game on, with Reach, every game feels like a social slog, because no one tries. CoD has the toolset to highlight when a game might be a tougher match so people know when to make more effort. If they choose to do so or not is up to them.
. I think its worth clarifying that I know Reach provides a level of information, but its behind so many menu's and so poorly presented I dont think anyone would use it very often.Stealth brag: ranked in the top 5000 for SPM
I get the feeling Halo 4 is going to be a more casual party game experience from the get go anyway, so this may all be moot, but if there are more competitive modes, I would hope they have the infrastructure for players to know when its time to play 'properly'.
The detrimental factors in Reach matchmaking have been documented here many times over:
-Guests
-Low populations
-Loose skill matching restrictions
None of these things have anything to do with TrueSkill.
I was looking again at the timeline art and I'm just so impressed with how the artist has drawn a direct connection between Bungie's first game and their latest game. It starts with a dot for the ball and lines for the paddles in Gnop!, and the same dots and lines become stars and hash marks on the compass for Destiny--brilliant.
Ragnarok Flames
Banned
Did they boost the ROF on the Needler?
The Librarian
Banned
Good video. Really helped that the guy was very good.
That was really great of Dan to get on Twitter like that and answer some of our questions. He recently told me that NMPD HQ was the highest rated in terms of useability out of all the Halo levels in ODST, "so no revisions were needed," and that it was "a dream to finish." I can imagine given that finale.
Good people, that man. I hope when I get out to PAX eventually I'll be able to finally meet him.
Zeouterlimits
Member
That's a really weird point. What ranking system?
Do you mean the persistence system for unlocks?
There should be a separate ranking system between Firefight and normal competitive multiplayer. Now people just grind their points in Firefight to get a higher ranking in competitive multiplayer, which deludes the whole skill factor.
Zeouterlimits
Member
Show me where FF matchmaking or Competitive matchmaking is affected by your skill level in either?
I've never heard of that.
How would Bungie have even translated your firefight performance into their competitive trueskill system?
Just a personal feeling, I have no real data to back it up. It just feels wrong to me. I just think it would be better to find people who play each mode faster, if it was separate.
Rand0m TAG
Member
The ranking system has nothing to do with skill.
Fan Expo Playing Halo 4
Not sure if posted already, but here's another video from @jumper_jumpzz
A bit of sword gameplay.
Not sure if posted already, but here's another video from @jumper_jumpzz
A bit of sword gameplay.
My point was that it should by seperating Firefight and competitive. The system now doesn't mix those to anyhow.
Deadly Cyclone
Pride of Iowa State
Videos are really showing that the core gameplay is still there.
Ragnarok Flames
Banned
The coverage Is really putting my mind at ease. Now to hope it is all fairly balanced.
ArchedThunder
Banned
He threw a grenade at his teammate early-ish in the video.
Then did it a second time half way in.
Just sayin.
Here's the thing, I see a constant amount of people praising EXP and how it encouraged people to play harder. I didn't see that. I went into Social BTB, which net me a bunch of one sided victories, and losses thanks for guest teammates, teammates who were Major or Colonel and we were up against Brigs. I went into Social Slayer with the same scenarios, Social Skirmish same, list goes on and on. Fact is, both the social aspect in 3 and the main general playlist structure in Reach uses loose skill matching, allows guests, and basically calls out for more of a casual experience; another thing neither cR or EXP did was stop quitters. 343 addresses that with drop in and drop out, which is OK under particular playlists. Neither does one up over another in terms of being competitive. Both allowing guests which I feel harms the game far more than it should - why we continue see guests get paired up with singles against full teams astounds me. If I recall correctly, Shishka posted in one of the pre-release Reach threads, and mentioned how guests will be more often and likely to be paired up against another than what we became accustomed to in Halo 3. Obviously it didn't really come down to that for whatever reason. If Halo 4 allows these same general circumstances, don't expect much difference, even if they continue to say how TS in H4 is going to be different. At least after the retail release, we see less amounts of party splitting which happened a lot in Social games (same did in the Reach beta if I remember right).
For something that's supposed to be their more competitive, ~*Arena*~ style map, that white map could not possibly have a less interesting layout. It looks like they told someone who had never played Halo to make a Halo map, so they just went down a big checklist and pooped that out.
HiredN00bs
Member
I see some advantages Halo 4 has to improve skill matchmaking based on what we already know:
1) Join-in-progress opens up more of the player pool to find close skill matches, especially for lone wolves.
2) A small number of playlists will drastically increase the player pool as well.
Both of these qualities will allow them to tighten skill matching without significantly sacrificing matchmaking search time. Very few people are willing to search for 10 minutes to find a match (at that point, they'd probably assume matchmaking isn't working at all).
I would also like if they restricted guests to a particular list or small subset of lists.
1) Join-in-progress opens up more of the player pool to find close skill matches, especially for lone wolves.
2) A small number of playlists will drastically increase the player pool as well.
Both of these qualities will allow them to tighten skill matching without significantly sacrificing matchmaking search time. Very few people are willing to search for 10 minutes to find a match (at that point, they'd probably assume matchmaking isn't working at all).
I would also like if they restricted guests to a particular list or small subset of lists.
ArchedThunder
Banned
The layout reminds me of Midship crossed with Assembly. Visually it looks boring as all hell, but I'm going to wait till I play it before I judge the map itself.
HiredN00bs
Member
Which map are you talking about it?
Are you talking about Haven?
That's actually the map I'm most interested in, lol. If you're talking about Adrift, yeah it doesn't look good at all. Tight, dark corridors do not make a fun map.
I hope the join-in-progress avoids the player getting in at the end of the match. I hated that in Call of Duty.
Interesting, you bring some valid points to the table.
I was jumping on people earlier for mixing up a ranking system and a progression system. I don't understand how so many people get the 2 confused; maybe it's because of military ranks in the progression, I don't know. I agree with OddOne's point of including a ranking system for Firefight/SpOps.
But I think that the statement I quoted is quite incorrect. There is a distinction for what people played the most between Campaign, Arena, Competitive, and Firefight in Reach. Their service record shows it with their games played in the above modes. I can go to Ghaleon's service record and see that he clearly plays a lot of Firefight. It would explain why he's a Reclaimer or whatever rank he is. I can go to Overdoziz's service record and see how he's an Inheritor; he has over 5000 competitive games played.
Going to Ghaleon again, he's posted about getting matched with Firefight players that idle, attempt to friendly fire, and just plain suck at Firefight. I don't think that should be the case, and you can't apply someone's MM TrueSkill to playing against the AI(at least it isn't very representative of that mode). A separate versus-AI skill should be used for those looking to have a challenging Firefight/SpOps experience. TrueSkill probably isn't the best solution for this type of matching. A global progression system should still be applied, similar to Reach. I want credit(haha!) for playing the game, no matter what I am doing in the game.
I should note at this point TrueSkill is the best system that currently exists, but it is far from "great". It can be applied to many genres of games, which ultimately becomes its downfall. It can't be tailored perfectly to a shooter with mechanics as complex as Halo. And Halo is relatively simple compared to other shooters.
tl;dr: I propose a separate ranking system for versus AI modes. Progression system is global similar to Reach, but individual playlists have their own skill based progression.
ArchedThunder
Banned
Haven.
The Librarian
Banned
I made that post forgetting to include the proper context. I mean to say, compared to this dude, that guy was very good
ArchedThunder
Banned
User 73706
Banned
While it's still stupid, the Scattershot dude got a DISTRACTION +5 medal while he was still alive in that footage. I think it'd be okay if you could only get them alive, sort of like a reverse Assist.
TS x Massacre
Member
Yeah, for FFA it puts you at an immediate disadvantage
The Real Napsta
Member
Very good? He was nading his teammates and couldn't hit the the broad side of a barn with the scattershot.
It did look like he played Halo before though, which is more than you can say about 99% of the gameplay we've seen so far.
EDIT missed this:
My bad.
Yeah, we were kind of disappointed when we find out we were playing e3 build but it was still a lot of fun. New build should be shown next week apparently.
Brolic Gaoler
formerly Alienshogun
So far, yeah.
bobs...onGaf
Member
Im pretty sure CoD turns join in progress off for FFA modes? At least it does for Wager Matches.
But yeah joining a game and going against a team who has a multitude of killstreaks lined up because the players on your team sucked before you even got into the game is stupid. I can only imagine how annoying it will be in Halo when the other team has map control and all the power weapons before you even get into the match.
I really hate the idea of join in progress for a game like Halo
You are experiencing a difference in match making restrictions, not a problem in True Skill... and that doesn't even touch on the population available in H3 to match with.
This is what Halo maps should look like. Clean, simple, and functional.
Or would you rather have the mess that is Adrift?
Brolic Gaoler
formerly Alienshogun
Im pretty sure CoD turns join in progress off for FFA modes? At least it does for Wager Matches.
But yeah joining a game and going against a team who has a multitude of killstreaks lined up because the players on your team sucked before you even got into the game is stupid. I can only imagine how annoying it will be in Halo when the other team has map control and all the power weapons before you even get into the match.
I really hate the idea of join in progress for a game like Halo
As much as I don't like joining a game to get my shit pushed in, I hate being locked in a game when my whole team quits more.
This is what Halo maps should look like. Clean, simple, and functional.
Or would you rather have the mess that is Adrift?
You forgot grey...
But for realz... love the art style of Haven. She's purdy...
The Real Napsta
Member
I play with a party most of the time so I'd rather not have join in progress. I can see the appeal of it for people that play solo though.
bobs...onGaf
Member
There are better ways of handing that than join in progress. If half your team quits, allow the other half to quit surrendering the game? I remember Bungie discussing offering the remaining players an advantage, that could have been interesting. (although ultimately I dont like the idea of that!)
Brolic Gaoler
formerly Alienshogun
That's the problem, both for the majority of players and developers.
Most people play solo, or with a friend. Join in progress makes the game better for them. No, it doesn't help people like you, but you're in the minority. So it makes sense for 343 and any developer to ensure there's a JIP in at least some of the playlists.
It would also make sense if they had a "mercenary" team slayer mode too, but I'm not going to get too greedy.
I'd rather keep playing than keep surrendering every game and thus never really get to play since I keep getting matched up with teams while I'm going in solo.
No thanks.
bobs...onGaf
Member
I disagree, I have played CoD both as a party but more often as a smaller group, and I can honestly say that join in progress affects me more when im playing in a smaller group.
When im in a party, there's a good chance the game is going to fill up around us anyway, so if half the other team quits, the game will keep throwing disorganised randoms together to fill in the slots, making it extremely easy for us. Theres also a good chance that we wont be thrown into a half finished match, because quite frankly there's not enough space on one team to do that.
When playing alone or with a small group though, you are the smaller piece that the game uses to fit around the larger parties, you get shafted and put into half finished matches where people went 0-15, quit and left you to have an uphill battle.
I just dont see any positives to smaller groups, except for the fact that if half of the team quits, eventually new people will slot in to fill those gaps. As I said in my last post though, I would rather the game handled these scenarios differently. I would rather the option to surrender the match was given tbh.
I think a Mercenary playlist would be easy enough to throw in that you can hardly call it greedy asking for it. It really should exist already.
I would rather just play with the disadvantage and then know theres a good chance im moving onto a cleaner next match, the quitter problem doesnt get resolved by join in, it just transfers the problem into one where every time you search for a match your playing a lottery with the fact you could get into a shitty match, which is probably about as likely to happen as half your team quitting.
User 73706
Banned
Going to enter Arena alone to try and get the bonus. Fuck.
I'd like to..but only have Defiant.
And maybe the game wasn't saving progress for me and a friend because of challenges?
Aggrotek
Member
Meh, it looks like it wont be that bad.
The Real Napsta
Member
You can play arena without dlc bro.
The guy was using it to get out of situations where he clearly lost. Getting denied a kill just because someone chose the right armor ability is so lame.
It's better than Armor Lock I suppose, but still :/
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