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Halo: Reach Beta Thread
- Thread starter GhaleonEB
- Start date
squidhands
Member
And why is he wearing a trash bag underneath the MC armor?CHEEZMO said:
(good lord, the things I'll watch that have anything remotely to do with Halo...)
Reluctant-Hero
Member
Damn, I don't think I was ranked into a division for the Beta. I played arena on four different days and a minimum of 3 games on each of those days. What were the minimum number of ranked days you needed to be placed into a division?
Lazslo
Member
You got rated homes, it's just sometimes difficult to see. Here is your commendations page, in the upper right next to your rank (sergeant) if you move your mouse over the recycle-ish symbol it notes that you were division 1 last season. It says last season but it really is in context to this season, arena is basically over.Reluctant-Hero said:
Reluctant-Hero
Member
Ssparks said:
Thanks, I figured it out. I'm in Steel, scrub town. Guess I can only go up from there! :lol
I really enjoyed the 6 hours I put into the beta. Definitely looking forward to the full game. I dig the arena rating much than that Halo 3's system. But I never got quite used to Reach's weakened melee punches. Old Halo3 habits die hard and Reach's multiplayer definitely requires more skill to earn your kills.
I was going to translate the lyrics from that music video for you all, but they are just too terrible for me to even bother.
Well, I guess I can do the chorus:
Piloten wir wir, haben keine Angst, fliegen viel zu hoch, doch manchmal stürzt man ab.
Pilots like us, they have no fear, they fly too high, but sometimes you'll fall.
For anyone wondering, he's a (terrible) German folk/pop singer: http://www.last.fm/music/Michael+Wendler
And now back to your scheduled Halo discussion! :lol
Well, I guess I can do the chorus:
Piloten wir wir, haben keine Angst, fliegen viel zu hoch, doch manchmal stürzt man ab.
Pilots like us, they have no fear, they fly too high, but sometimes you'll fall.
For anyone wondering, he's a (terrible) German folk/pop singer: http://www.last.fm/music/Michael+Wendler
And now back to your scheduled Halo discussion! :lol
Juices' Halo: Reach Beta Impressions
I largely disagree with him. Different strokes for different folks.
I largely disagree with him. Different strokes for different folks.
squidhands
Member
TheOddOne said:
bobs...onGaf
Member
Blueblur1 said:
From a lot of people I know that hated Halo 3 because they loved Halo 2: "Reach is awesome because Bungie is going in a new direction, they could never top Halo 1 or 2 so im glad theyre not even trying".
Im not saying Juices echoe's that sentiment, but as a Halo 3 fan that hurts. =(
That being said, I dont want Halo 3.5 either, Reach is pretty fun, I just have complaints with the movement and bloom differences, editing the bloom to make it harder for spammers and putting faster movement in would make Reach pretty awesome in my eyes. I would still have my problems with it, but I think every Halo player has to find that compromize between what they want to keep and what needs to be changed.
That german video is hilarious. xD
*hi5* Same here!! But I only played Arena the first 3 days and then never again,Brainboy said:Hell yeah. Bronze Top 20% here.
which actually probably helped me not get ranked even lower
Leaving now, but will read later, I enjoy his opinions even when I disagree.Blueblur1 said:
Thank you to the kind soul that rendered my clip.
http://www.bungie.net/Stats/Reach/FileDetails.aspx?fid=1371040
I thought it was a pretty good defender Triple Kill but its not as awesome as some of the other HaloGAF stuff I have seen.
http://www.bungie.net/Stats/Reach/FileDetails.aspx?fid=1371040
I thought it was a pretty good defender Triple Kill but its not as awesome as some of the other HaloGAF stuff I have seen.
electricpirate
Member
I'm probably done with the beta at this point, as there isn't much time left, and I've promised the rest of my time to my wife so I can help her study for her board exams. Maybe I can sneak in an early morning game or two. Here's my high level review of it.
I applaud Bungie for taking some risks with Reach, stagnation is a hard thing to fight when you've been making the same thing for 10 years.
I like a couple things about Bloom/aim degradation on the precision weapons. I like the tension of waiting for your accuracy to set while under fire, and I like that it allows weapons to have far more expansive roles in the sandbox, while not being uber guns. As a balancing tool, the bloom is what allows the versatility of the pistol, and that versatility what makes the pistol one of my favorite weapons in the game. Unfortunately, some of the weapon's, especially the DMR can feel too random at points. Their bloom effect, their ROF, and their accuracy degradation need to be tweaked to reduce this feeling. Hopefully the headshot fix will also help with that feeling.
Reach is a deep, and complicated game, and I feel like I've barely scratched the surface of the strategy of the game (bronze top 30% if it's not obvious). Combat is varied and deep, and I don't even think the top players quite figured it out yet. Compared with Halo 3, where I kind of had the lay of the land after a week of play, I feel like I'm still learning at a fast rate with Reach, that's a good thing, and probably a big part of why I probably logged twice as many games into the Reach beta as the H3 beta.
This Beta is a lot more raw than Halo 3's, there's more exponentially more gltiches to fixes, and balance issues to tweak. Where Halo 3 felt like a datamine disguised as a demo, this felt like a an actual Beta. That's not necessarily a bad thing; in some area's halo 3 had kind of a "Designed by committee" feel that I think may have been the result of a polishing cycle that eventually stopped changing things for polish sake, and more for changes alone. I actually enjoyed the h3 beta weapon balance much more than I enjoyed the final games, every time I use a brute spike grenade, trip mine, or carbine in H3's final version, I shed a single tear for their beta version, and what could have been. When it comes to balance, I hope Bungie takes the patch of beefing what doesn't work, rather than nerfing what does, Reach is probably pushing the upper limit in terms of conflict length that I would enjoy, and nerfing non power weapons (except for nades) would probably push it over that line.
Some changes to the formula didn't affect the game as much as I thought they would, for example I expected that fact that you stay with both your party and your enemies after game by default to change the gametypes you play, and the ability to find decent players. In my experience, people just ended up dropping to the menu immediately after games were over, or if they stayed in game, matchmaking slowed pretty dramatically, so it didn't change much. I was disappointed with the skill matching of MM, which felt like social MM in Halo 3, even pairing me against players with guests. Maybe I need to use "Match by skill" as a filter more often.
Reach has the potential to be the deepest, and strongest Halo MP yet, but it's going to take a lot of work, and a lot of bug fixes to get there.
I applaud Bungie for taking some risks with Reach, stagnation is a hard thing to fight when you've been making the same thing for 10 years.
I like a couple things about Bloom/aim degradation on the precision weapons. I like the tension of waiting for your accuracy to set while under fire, and I like that it allows weapons to have far more expansive roles in the sandbox, while not being uber guns. As a balancing tool, the bloom is what allows the versatility of the pistol, and that versatility what makes the pistol one of my favorite weapons in the game. Unfortunately, some of the weapon's, especially the DMR can feel too random at points. Their bloom effect, their ROF, and their accuracy degradation need to be tweaked to reduce this feeling. Hopefully the headshot fix will also help with that feeling.
Reach is a deep, and complicated game, and I feel like I've barely scratched the surface of the strategy of the game (bronze top 30% if it's not obvious). Combat is varied and deep, and I don't even think the top players quite figured it out yet. Compared with Halo 3, where I kind of had the lay of the land after a week of play, I feel like I'm still learning at a fast rate with Reach, that's a good thing, and probably a big part of why I probably logged twice as many games into the Reach beta as the H3 beta.
This Beta is a lot more raw than Halo 3's, there's more exponentially more gltiches to fixes, and balance issues to tweak. Where Halo 3 felt like a datamine disguised as a demo, this felt like a an actual Beta. That's not necessarily a bad thing; in some area's halo 3 had kind of a "Designed by committee" feel that I think may have been the result of a polishing cycle that eventually stopped changing things for polish sake, and more for changes alone. I actually enjoyed the h3 beta weapon balance much more than I enjoyed the final games, every time I use a brute spike grenade, trip mine, or carbine in H3's final version, I shed a single tear for their beta version, and what could have been. When it comes to balance, I hope Bungie takes the patch of beefing what doesn't work, rather than nerfing what does, Reach is probably pushing the upper limit in terms of conflict length that I would enjoy, and nerfing non power weapons (except for nades) would probably push it over that line.
Some changes to the formula didn't affect the game as much as I thought they would, for example I expected that fact that you stay with both your party and your enemies after game by default to change the gametypes you play, and the ability to find decent players. In my experience, people just ended up dropping to the menu immediately after games were over, or if they stayed in game, matchmaking slowed pretty dramatically, so it didn't change much. I was disappointed with the skill matching of MM, which felt like social MM in Halo 3, even pairing me against players with guests. Maybe I need to use "Match by skill" as a filter more often.
Reach has the potential to be the deepest, and strongest Halo MP yet, but it's going to take a lot of work, and a lot of bug fixes to get there.
Blergmeister
Member
When I look at my stats for the last season it says that I'm now a 3 when I was a 2 so that was awesome. I check out my friend and he is now a 2 instead of a 1... so either we pwned up or there is some glitch. I'm hoping the former. I am not seeing any percentages though, which maybe I'm thankful for since I just earned up to silver... don't want to taint my glory by struggling to make a top 100% rating :lol
Shake Appeal
Member
Who would have thought, say, a year ago, that Juices would be offering some of the more positive impressions of the Reach beta?
Subtervotion
Member
I was really hoping for a more in-depth Arena analysis. Something along the lines of your best day, your worst day, your best game, your worst game, highest position (Ex: Onyx Top 50%) lowest position (Ex: Gold Top 30%). I hope these things can be in the retail version.
bobs...onGaf
Member
Church RvB said:
Actually these are things they should be quite easy to filter by, I would love to see those stats!
Photolysis
Banned
Top 30% silver here. Of course not that the ranking system means much when you go in alone and get put with randoms from steel and bronze (as gold/onyx) and get matched up against a full team of gold/onyx players.
Definitely needs some work there :lol
And going back a bit, that comparison with the DMR bloom and the H1 pistol & H2/H3 BR is completely and utterly false; there is absolutely no change in accuracy based on the rate of fire for these weapons. Furthermore it's also impossible to fire them faster than optimal and get RNG kills. Bloom for the AR works because the functionality was always there but invisible. It was never there for the Pistol/BR. It is a completely new mechanic for precision weapons.
To claim it always existed and is merely visible now is just plain wrong.
Definitely needs some work there :lol
And going back a bit, that comparison with the DMR bloom and the H1 pistol & H2/H3 BR is completely and utterly false; there is absolutely no change in accuracy based on the rate of fire for these weapons. Furthermore it's also impossible to fire them faster than optimal and get RNG kills. Bloom for the AR works because the functionality was always there but invisible. It was never there for the Pistol/BR. It is a completely new mechanic for precision weapons.
To claim it always existed and is merely visible now is just plain wrong.
Shake Appeal
Member
I think this is by design. It gives you (and other players) opportunities to break out of their current Division by placing higher in games than higher-rated players.Photolysis said:
He's good on the Arena: party chat, proximity chat, etc.Gui_PT said:
Although, like a lot of people, he doesn't grasp how exactly the ratings factor into how you ultimately place. I think Bungie need to explain that what the rating is exactly doesn't matter, that it's how it compares to other ratings within that game (i.e. whether you have 1400 or 1600 is irrelevant, provided the opposition have 1300).
I must admit this beta has been a rollercoaster for me.
The game is fun for sure, no question there.. that's definitely a plus.
But the more I play it, the more things are bothering me about it at the core.
Plenty of things could be fixed and it might be the sum of the faults that are weighing down the experience for me. I'm having a hard time placing anyone 'fault' above the other.
I quote 'fault' because who am I to decide whats a fault or a choice or what.
There is a lot to like about the beta, and what the game could become.
What I find amazing is how the AA's (armor lock aside) and loadouts in general are my smallest gripes and these are the biggest additions to the formula yet. They radically change things, yet its sum of the rest that just bugs the shit out of me. I thought for sure there could never be a sloppier mp mode then heavies on standoff/valhala, and then I played Invasion and have to really wonder.
It's amazing that boneyard being the biggest halo map yet, is totally unfit for vehicle combat. That's quite an accomplishment.
I've grown to love swordbase now for slayer and slayer alone. The noob-launcher neesd to be nerfed or something, but the map is pretty fun, and with the AA's it's pretty hard to completely camp out without getting creeped on. I think the biggest problem with the swordbase is the strength of the new radar.
Powerhouse is pretty damn fun as well for slayer and stockpile. I think the blue team's flag spawn needs to be directly across from the red flag spawn for grenade line of fire equality, but its much better then stockpile on swordbases (yikes).
blah blah blah, what else to say.
Please do something about the vehicles, they handle so poorly, are fragile as hell, don't kill fast enough outside of the tanks... I mean the banshee feels like I'm driving a flying bus, it really does. And have fun turning a warthog turret to face an elite.... its a hoot.
The game is fun for sure, no question there.. that's definitely a plus.
But the more I play it, the more things are bothering me about it at the core.
Plenty of things could be fixed and it might be the sum of the faults that are weighing down the experience for me. I'm having a hard time placing anyone 'fault' above the other.
I quote 'fault' because who am I to decide whats a fault or a choice or what.
There is a lot to like about the beta, and what the game could become.
What I find amazing is how the AA's (armor lock aside) and loadouts in general are my smallest gripes and these are the biggest additions to the formula yet. They radically change things, yet its sum of the rest that just bugs the shit out of me. I thought for sure there could never be a sloppier mp mode then heavies on standoff/valhala, and then I played Invasion and have to really wonder.
It's amazing that boneyard being the biggest halo map yet, is totally unfit for vehicle combat. That's quite an accomplishment.
I've grown to love swordbase now for slayer and slayer alone. The noob-launcher neesd to be nerfed or something, but the map is pretty fun, and with the AA's it's pretty hard to completely camp out without getting creeped on. I think the biggest problem with the swordbase is the strength of the new radar.
Powerhouse is pretty damn fun as well for slayer and stockpile. I think the blue team's flag spawn needs to be directly across from the red flag spawn for grenade line of fire equality, but its much better then stockpile on swordbases (yikes).
blah blah blah, what else to say.
Please do something about the vehicles, they handle so poorly, are fragile as hell, don't kill fast enough outside of the tanks... I mean the banshee feels like I'm driving a flying bus, it really does. And have fun turning a warthog turret to face an elite.... its a hoot.
On the other side of the coin, to claim that it adds "interference" or does anything but provide you with feedback on the current potential bullet spread is also plain wrong. "I should decide how accurate I am" is not a mutually exclusive concept in the context of a system that is intended to emulate and provide suggestive interpretation of recoil effects.Photolysis said:
You could turn off "bloom" in Counter-Strike on the HUD, and it didn't even matter at all. The game will still play the same whether your crosshair is expanding and receding by %15 every second or not.
Photolysis
Banned
Shake Appeal said:
If it is by design then it's extremely broken. News for Bungie, 1 high ranked player and 3 very low ranking players who have never met is not going to beat 4 high ranking players who've never met. Let alone a team of 4 high ranked players.
It didn't give me a chance to gain a higher trueskill rank, it actually cost me mine, because it treated my losses as statistically significant when they should have been essentially worthless.
Some might find the reticle expansion distracting, but I personally don't. But a lot of people aren't arguing against the reticle expansion per se, they're arguing that the mechanic of decreasing accuracy based on ROF for precision weapons shouldn't exist. It's just easier to say "bloom" than "exponentially decreasing accuracy based on the rate of fire".
bobs...onGaf
Member
Shake Appeal said:
Huh? I never knew about this, please explain?
I actually dont think I understand the arena system at all. :lol
Dirtbag said:
Yeah well said, I have many personal issues with the beta, but thats all they are - personal issues, I dont think my opinion should have any influence on the game because at the end of the day fun is subjective.
So while I complain, please know im not saying its Bungies fualt I dont like things!
Shake Appeal
Member
As I understand it, and someone from Bungie please correct me if I'm wrong, only TrueSkill governs where you place in the Arena.bobs99 ... said:
When you finish a game, the rating you have in that game is compared to the rating of other players in that same game. Basically the eight players are 'ranked' (or maybe you are ranked with just the four opposing players, I am not sure). When you rank better than players who are 'better' than you, TrueSkill scratches its chin and makes some changes. Similarly, when you rank worse than players who are 'worse' than you, your placement drops. When you rank according to its existing understanding (i.e. you, in Silver, get 1400, a Bronze player gets 1200, a Gold player gets 1500, and an Onyx player gets 1600), it does very little, as the system appears to be working, at least on the evidence of that one game.
The key sentence was in a BWU:
So if a game has just begun, and you've only got to, say, 1200 or something, and then the entire opposing team quits... your having 1200 hasn't harmed you in the least, because you're still outranking the other teams ratings in that game, and that's what will be fed into the TrueSkill system and determine your placement.
Comparing Day Ratings is utterly, utterly wrongheaded (someone who says "I got over 1600 every day and my friend who got 1400s placed above me!" doesn't grasp how the system works). The only reason Day Ratings exist is to ensure that players play a minimum number of games and days to qualify for placement, and for "personal scorekeeping", as Bungie put it.
electricpirate
Member
Shake Appeal said:
I think that's the point when you say, "okay this system is way too complex, we need to either expose more clear data, or we need to make the system easier to understand."
I love the season based model though, I look forward to scratching my way up from my lowly bronze in the final release.
Subtervotion
Member
I'll continue to side on party chat. I don't use party chat in arena. I will purposefully leave my party when I'm in Arena. And I don't like when my teammates use it in Arena. But if someone wants to, even if its a detriment to me, it's their choice. Party chat is now a gold privilege. They're paying for it, let them use it for the reason it was created.
electricpirate
Member
Dirtbag said:
Good post.
It's weird to see how oppinions seem to have flipped on swordbase; after everyone was hating it like crazy, now everyone seems to be enjoying it. I know I've come to really like 1 flag CTF on it, but I think that's because I just love really offensively balanced 1 flag maps. (I h8 burial mounds for 1 flag so much)
Shake Appeal
Member
At the end of a game, compare your rating to the rating of other players (for that game) and perform a quick mental ranking of those ratings. Rank high, and you are moving up. Rank low, and you are moving down.electricpirate said:
More or less.
bobs...onGaf
Member
Shake Appeal said:
Thanks for the explanation, thats cleared things up a fair amount for me - so essentially the daily rating doesnt actually mean anything. Im not sure its worth even giving that information to the players, it just overcomplicates it and makes you think thats what theyre ranking you with.
and essentially winning is VITAL in the Arena, because if you lose, you will face off against low people meaning that your ratings are fairly worthless. I was under the impression that each game was treated seperatly, and wasnt exactly going in with a winning mentality, I was simply trying to get the most kills/ assists to get the highest rating, winning was just a small boost to that rating. :lol
So why is the fabled jump between divisons so hard? Surely if you win all your games and get matched against Onyx level people, if you get good ratings against them you would jump up?
Gui_PT said:
Sounds good, but "I'll drive". :lol
If not today I REALLY wanna get a few last games in tomorow, anyone know what time the beta is going down?
bobs...onGaf
Member
vhfive said:
My one and only problem with sword base is that lift room, I have never seen an enclosed broom cupboard type room on a Halo multiplayer map before, for good reason. If they just opened that up a little to make it harder for people to camp it, ill be happy.
The only lift that's really getting camped hard is gold lift, and once you change your strategy centering around the center room lift, you'll probably find the map opens way up. I rarely go up that gold lift unless my team is up there.vhfive said:
Agreed, that lift becoming part of that entire hallway would be great.bobs99 ... said:
lybertyboy
Thinks the Evil Empire is just misunderstood.
Just a reminder that if youre interested in having your Halo 3 or ODST clips appear on the Waypoint TOP 5 you can send them to the gamertag: HaloWaypoint or email: community (at) halowaypoint.com.
If the thought of leaving the comfy confines of GAF has you nervous, feel free to pm clips to me here.
If the thought of leaving the comfy confines of GAF has you nervous, feel free to pm clips to me here.
electricpirate
Member
Shake Appeal said:
Right, that's what I'll do; but I just don't think numbers displayed prominently (daily ratings for example) that don't have much meaning are indicative of a well thought out design.
Shake Appeal
Member
Well, people with high Day Ratings are more likely to be doing well, though the Day Rating itself has no influence on anything (other than qualifying you for placement). But if one player grabs 1400 scores consistently playing the minimum number of games, they are likely winning most of them, placing above their opponents, and so rising in placement. Whereas someone who plays 20 games on a given day and carves out a higher average, but who wins and places well less consistently (e.g. they have a bunch of games where they only scored 1000-1200, and were getting beaten) is probably more or less staying where they are.bobs99 ... said:
It isn't vital, because you can lose and still place above other players in that game (and so still move up), but it will likely inhibit your mobility severely.bobs99 ... said:
That "small boost" is designed to kick one player above the other in the ratings even if they had a similar performance, based on whether or not their team won. So if you go 10-10-5 and a guy on the other, winning team also goes 10-10-5, you will nonetheless rank below him in that game, and move downward in the placements, while he moves up. That's why that 4% downward adjustment for losing is crucial.bobs99 ... said:
Depending on how elastic TrueSkill is (it's far more elastic than in Halo 3, at least), it may take a while to convince the system that it had the wrong impression of you. But if you consistently win matches against Onyx-level people (and consistently outrank them in individual games), you will, sooner or later, be Onyx yourself.bobs99 ... said:
bobs...onGaf
Member
Shake Appeal said:
Nice, I think I understand the system a little better now.
Bungie, get this man to write an explanation on Bnet!
squidhands
Member
Make the wall that separates the lift and hallway destructible. I'd love to be able to blast a hole in the wall with a shotgun and throw a sticky at the dude camping the lift. Just being able to break glass on Sword Base isn't enough, I want a map to have the capability to strategically change by weapon damage.Dirtbag said: