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[ncsuDuncan]

Wait, wait, WAIT. You've got to be kidding me.

All this time I thought "Hire Juices" was just a sarcastic joke, but you people are serious?

Sure, he has one or two good ideas there. I like the idea of a weekly playlist and Ghaleon approves of his Firefight/Campaign choices. But there's more to building playlists than that.

- No Social Slayer? Really? If you're worried about population, say goodbye to whatever players enjoy playing splitscreen when they find out guests can only play Slayer in Big Team Battle.

- No mention of DLC at all? It's certainly a convoluted situation, but you can't just ignore DLC requirements when building a "reasonable" playlist wishlist.

The comments about 343's entire lack of support are dead-on though. Why just the other day I was playing a Title Update gametype trying to finish a custom challenge on the Anniversary maps when a new achievement pop-up distracted me from the task at hand. It's a shame I couldn't look up the stats of that game online to see what I missed, the Waypoint site is too cluttered with new content and weekly updates.

And comparing console game support to PC game support? LoL? LOL

 

[Hydranockz]

Getting rid of Team Slayer is the only way to cleanse the scrubs, don'tcha know?

 

[GhaleonEB]

As nice as some of Juices's suggestions are, whatever processes, structures and resources are in place make it seem like an impossibility.

This is something I really wonder about. I'm a process guy - I work on business and financial processes for a living. I'm really interested in the process behind matchmaking updates. How the team is organized, the decision making process and (in particular) the tools to make the changes online. From our vantage point, the options to make changes in matchmaking are expanding, but it seems like the tools on the back end are getting worse and worse. Or at least, the process to make changes is getting less and less effecient.

Fixes like soft kill zones have to wait a month to get implemented, and sometimes take two months to fix fully. Totally broken game types like Fiesta in Score Attack have sat for most of the year, still broken. (Yes, still beating that drum.) It's the most inexplicable thing I've seen in Halo's matchmaking history. Changes to matchmaking (the non-trivial Anniversary playlists aside) have been minimal to non-existant for five or six months.

For all the tools to make updates, and all the possiblities to make improvements they offer, something is keeping them from happening. Some day I would love to learn just what goes into playlits management, from an oganizational and tool standpoint.

I like playing Halo online, and I miss it lately. I've got dongblain itches that are not going scratched. But every time I think about doing so I look at the playlists and realize I don't want to play Reach online. Not any more, not with these playlists. Too many problems have sat for too long.

Wait, wait, WAIT. You've got to be kidding me.

All this time I thought "Hire Juices" was just a sarcastic joke, but you people are serious?

Sure, he has one or two good ideas there. I like the idea of a weekly playlist and Ghaleon approves of his Firefight/Campaign choices. But there's more to building playlists than that.

It's a HaloGAF running joke to signal approval for one of Juices ideas. Do I agree with all of them, or think he's covered all the bases? Nope. Just making my approval for those updates known.

In general, I like his line of thinking - Reach needs a holistic playlist reboot. I don't agree with all of it, but I do like the way he's trying to push the conversation forward with detailed posts about what he'd do. Then we can discuss argue the specifics. I really want Reach's playlist managers to 'go big', in addition to map/game type fixes.

 

[Tunavi]

Bungie would update the playlists once a month and it was nice to see changes on a regular basis. Jeremiah did his best to listen to the community and at least mix things up.

343 needs someone working with the community to freshen up the playlists. No question about it. Vanilla Reach is using playlists from August and it's just become extremely predictable to play Vanilla playlists.

 

[A27_StarWolf]

While all of you are here, I'll be online playing BF3, if any of you get on I'll come play Halo though.

 

[CyReN]

343 should add ranks so I can play people of similar skill to make it fair for both parties.

 

[Zeouterlimits]

From our vantage point, the options to make changes in matchmaking are expanding, but it seems like the tools on the back end are getting worse and worse. Or at least, the process to make changes is getting less and less effecient.

Fixes like soft kill zones have to wait a month to get implemented, and sometimes take two months to fix fully. Totally broken game types like Fiesta in Score Attack have sat for most of the year, still broken. (Yes, still beating that drum.) It's the most inexplicable thing I've seen in Halo's matchmaking history. Changes to matchmaking (the non-trivial Anniversary playlists aside) have been minimal to non-existant for five or six months.

For all the tools to make updates, and all the possiblities to make improvements they offer, something is keeping them from happening. Some day I would love to learn just what goes into playlits management, from an oganizational and tool standpoint.

It's interesting to think about, because we the promise of Forge in Halo 3, for me at least, was the fixing of issues like that. Making balance changes, new versions of map/tailored gametypes and shipping them quickly. But when it came to implementation, at some stage(s) in the process it failed. Whether it be play-testing resources, planning resources, people assigned to the team, actual tool not lining up, Forge not accounting for certain changes that needed to be made, etc, it didn't come together properly.
But getting it right out of the gate rarely happens, so Reach was a chance to fix all that. But honestly it has felt worse than before. In many cases.
The signals/murmurs we've gotten has made playlists in particular sound like a tool issue, which is puzzling. After H3, did Bungie not revist them enough?

 

[GhaleonEB]

Bungie would update the playlists once a month and it was nice to see changes on a regular basis. Jeremiah did his best to listen to the community and at least mix things up.

343 needs someone working with the community to freshen up the playlists. No question about it. Vanilla Reach is using playlists from August and it's just become extremely predictable to play Vanilla playlists.

I agree with this, I'm mostly lamenting the static shape of things since the transition when it comes to the playlists I play.

 

[Trasher]

Haha ok, seriously you guys are relentless.

You have some idea as to what classic Halo is. Halo has changed considerably in every title. I wanted to know how you can define what classic Halo because you claim Reach is trying too hard to be different. The thing is, however, is that they've all been different. I was genuinely curious to know.

You are the one that is relentless in trying to prod me and my posts to get some sort of reaction. I dunno why you friggin hate me so much. You're always dramatizing my posts, and jumping to conclusions that aren't a reality.

I don't have all the time to go into details right now, but I'd prefer to see Halo stick more along the lines of Halo 3's multiplayer. Yes, each game has obviously been different, but I think Reach is beyond a doubt the one that tried to be the most different from the previous games. Armor abilities and bloom being the two biggest differences. I'd also like to see the next Halo game put more time into creating its own multiplayer maps rather than worrying about remaking old classics.

 

[Steelyuhas]

343 should add ranks so I can play people of similar skill to make it fair for both parties.

That's just about tightening the skill matches for games, a visible number doesn't matter.

343 said they made skill more important in select playlists, but that they wouldn't say which ones. I wonder which ones they were, and how much different it is now.

 

[wwm0nkey]

Even though I hate default Reach and still think the playlists needs some trimming, I love the classic playlist and can not wait for the ZB MLG playlist to go live.

 

[ncsuDuncan]

It's a HaloGAF running joke to signal approval for one of Juices ideas. Do I agree with all of them, or think he's covered all the bases? Nope. Just making my approval for those updates known.

In general, I like his line of thinking - Reach needs a holistic playlist reboot. I don't agree with all of it, but I do like the way he's trying to push the conversation forward with detailed posts about what he'd do. Then we can discuss argue the specifics. I really want Reach's playlist managers to 'go big', in addition to map/game type fixes.

I know. It just seems like these past few pages have seen people fully endorsing his plan from top to bottom.

I'm all for comments like "Juices makes a good point about changes to Campaign/FF matchmaking. Hire Juices." What bothers me is people essentially saying "Juices has posted a perfect playlist setup that needs to be adopted verbatim. Hire Juices." It just irks me when people stop saying "Juices has good ideas" and start saying "Juices could do a better job than 343" while ignoring the glaring holes in his plan (and the behind-the-scenes work that job requires).

Just makes me feel like I'm being trolled. It's not even Juices' fault, I have nothing against him. He certainly isn't as abrasive as some people have been today.

-------
Unrelated:

You know what Halo needs? Dragon shouts. Secret words of power that unleash destruction.

 

[daedalius]

That's just about tightening the skill matches for games, a visible number doesn't matter.

343 said they made skill more important in select playlists, but that they wouldn't say which ones. I wonder which ones they were, and how much different it is now.

They also said the pistol is similar to the CE pistol in terms of bloom.

I wouldn't say the skill matching is very tight in Anniv. Classic, haha.

So MS sold a billion 360s on Black Friday(that week anyway), I expect the marketing campaign for Halo 4 to be better than the H3 campaign.

360 $ales: http://www.joystiq.com/2011/11/29/microsoft-moves-960k-xbox-360-consoles-750k-kinect-units-week/

 

[Trasher]

-------
Unrelated:

You know what Halo needs? Dragon shouts. Secret words of power that unleash destruction.

FUS HALO DAH

 

[Hydranockz]

You are the one that is relentless in trying to prod me and my posts to get some sort of reaction. I dunno why you friggin hate me so much. You're always dramatizing my posts, and jumping to conclusions that aren't a reality.

I don't have all the time to go into details right now, but I'd prefer to see Halo stick more along the lines of Halo 3's multiplayer. Yes, each game has obviously been different, but I think Reach is beyond a doubt the one that tried to be the most different from the previous games. Armor abilities and bloom being the two biggest differences. I'd also like to see the next Halo game put more time into creating its own multiplayer maps rather than worrying about remaking old classics.

Funnily enough, I agree with where you're going in terms of what you want to see Halo doing. I can see why you would think AAs are too big a jump but I imagine from they're point of view it was a natural progression given the complaints everyone had on Halo 3's equipment. In that same vein, I think bloom was going to be the natural choice given the complaints on the BR spread.

I guess your mention of 'classic' threw me off. Halo 3 did so many things well. The Pit and the combination of Halo 3's gunplay and movement will always define a high point for Halo 3 for me. With zero bloom and even 85% rolling in, I think Reach is definitely stepping up to being a far better game. We can only hope 343 hone in on those things.

 

[TheOddOne]

You know what Halo needs? Dragon shouts. Secret words of power that unleash destruction.

They are called Armour Abilities.

 

[Hey You]

I know its been said a million times here, but after playing MW3's spec ops mode. Halo NEEDS to have this, it will be much better IMO then firefight and I'm sure lots will love it.

 

[Steelyuhas]

They also said the pistol is similar to the CE pistol in terms of bloom.

I wouldn't say the skill matching is very tight in Anniv. Classic, haha.

So MS sold a billion 360s on Black Friday(that week anyway), I expect the marketing campaign for Halo 4 to be better than the H3 campaign.

360 $ales: http://www.joystiq.com/2011/11/29/microsoft-moves-960k-xbox-360-consoles-750k-kinect-units-week/

lol true enough.

Classic does have party restrictions when matching people up which is much more important than a strict skill matchup to me, especially with the low population.

Holy shit, the 360 continues to fly off the shelfs!

I know its been said a million times here, but after playing MW3's spec ops mode. Halo NEEDS to have this, it will be much better IMO then firefight and I'm sure lots will love it.

Yeah don't get rid of the current Firefight, but having missions for it as well would be sweet, and to be honest something I expect to happen as a natural expansion of Firefight.

 

[daedalius]

So I'm watching Tashi's stream, and damn when its 120%speed no sprint ZB, people are just shooting constantly. I have to admit I think I prefer the higher base speed and no sprint as well (been playing a lot of Anniv. Classic, would prefer 5shot ZBDMR instead of the 3sk bloom-y pistol tho).

Sprint is a bit mundane, a super-soldier should be able to move at full clip and fire with perfect accuracy; seems like the higher settings do this much better than default Reach. Now if they could only juke better but alas, Reach player inertia.

If they left out sprint in H4, they could just make it so you could do cooler things with that button instead of sprinting. (like PICK-UP equipment and armor-abilities)

Halo 4 = no sprint/high default speed plz

Edit: http://www.twitch.tv/tashiii/b/301051485, I'm just watching something he recorded the other day. Well, I have it on in my secondary monitor while I work that is, heh. Dem MLG maps... lots 'o gray.

 

[Tawpgun]

link to tashi's stream? I lost it.

 

[feel]

Tashi's streaming no-sprint ZB? Tashi redeemed, that's fun Reach!! Shame my connection is too shit to keep up with his HD stream.

 

[Tashi]

It's an archived video from last week I think

 

[CyReN]

The Best—and Worst—Halo Map Remakes of All Time by Alco (MLG Writer)

I agree with most of it.

 

[Zeouterlimits]

I know. It just seems like these past few pages have seen people fully endorsing his plan from top to bottom.

I'm all for comments like "Juices makes a good point about changes to Campaign/FF matchmaking. Hire Juices." What bothers me is people essentially saying "Juices has posted a perfect playlist setup that needs to be adopted verbatim. Hire Juices."

Just because I missed this, who actually said this?

 

[reggie]

.

 

[thezerofire]

Got my ethernet situation fixed for the present, back online!

 

[feel]

Wait, wait, WAIT. You've got to be kidding me.

All this time I thought "Hire Juices" was just a sarcastic joke, but you people are serious?

You got trolled

 

[heckfu]

So fucking wrong on Coagulation. Best map in the series.

Lololol

 

[Havok]

The Best—and Worst—Halo Map Remakes of All Time by Alco (MLG Writer)

I agree with most of it.

Last Resort honorable mention for best with Tombstone and Coagulation (both of which made smart changes - I wish CEA Hang 'em High had the bases switched and Hemo had the vastly superior Coag bases) in the worst? Nah. Last Resort is an abomination.

It was hard not to put Last Resort under “best,” so here's to Halo 3's only non-DLC remake. Juxtaposed with Zanzibar, the map looks greats, feels great, has awesome subtle additions, and perfectly encapsulated Bungie's vision of emphasizing more asymmetrical game types for Halo 3.

What, One Sided VIP and Territories? Give me a break.

 

[reggie]

.

 

[Blue Ninja]

I loved Tombstone and Coagulation.

 

[StalkerUKCG]

Last Resort honorable mention for best with Tombstone and Coagulation (both of which made smart changes - I wish CEA Hang 'em High had the bases switched) in the worst? Nah. Last Resort is an abomination.

This really depends on if you include spiritual succesors, Coag might aswell be as far remove from Blood gulch as valhalla is from coag.

Avalanch and sidewinder play pretty differently aswell but thats called a "remake" still.

Tombstone and Hang em high feel like entirely different maps to me.

Elongation is longest and is a much better map and that missing from the list.

Honestly even the change in game mechanics from h2 to h3 made alot of the maps play different and thats the primary way to judge a map, if i cant have the same experience i used to have then it might aswell be a new map.

MLG you so funny

 

[Tashi]

Elongation sucked balls

 

[StalkerUKCG]

Elongation sucked balls

So do you. Its better than longest

 

[Havok]

This really depends on if you include spiritual succesors, Coag might aswell be as far remove from Blood gulch as valhalla is from coag.

What? Blood Gulch and Coag share everything except the inclusion of Coag's teleporter rocks and better bases. Valhalla is only a spiritual successor in that there are two bases in a canyon, a middle hill, and that the grass is green. Success in Coag didn't revolve around camping on the single powerful spot on the map.

 

[CyReN]

I'm so glad no one is defending Blackout.

 

[reggie]

.

 

[Tashi]

So do you. Its better than longest

Let's get real here first. Longest was average map and Elongation didn't make it better. I used to have fun on Longest but I don't think anyone thinks back about the "good ol' days" and says, "ahhh Longest, now that's a classic Halo map." And if they do, they're wrong lol. I remember being hyped for Elongation. Ugh, I was a dumb kid.

^edit: I'll bet there are a lot of Blackout fans. I actually remember Shishka telling us it was popular based on voting statistics. Very believable. Bad remake but not a bad map.

 

[Homeboyd]

I'm so glad no one is defending Blackout.

Dude, it's like a pixel-perfect remake of lockout. Don't see what the big deal is with everyone...

avatarquote.jpg

 

[StalkerUKCG]

What? Blood Gulch and Coag share everything except the improved Coag teleporter rocks and bases. Valhalla is only a spiritual successor in that there are two bases in a canyon, a middle hill, and that the grass is green.

Alternativly Blood Gulch > Coagulation > Valhalla is an evolutionary path of a map all based on the core concept.

Let's get real here first. Longest was average map and Elongation didn't make it better. I used to have fun on Longest but I don't think anyone thinks back about the "good ol' days" and says, "ahhh Longest, now that's a classic Halo map." And if they do, they're wrong lol. I remember being hyped for Elongation. Ugh, I was a dumb kid.

^edit: I'll bet there are a lot of Blackout fans. I actually remember Shishka telling us it was actually popular based on voting statistics. Very believable. Bad remake but not a bad map.

Real Talk lets do this, Elongations terrain adjustments (wider paths, smaller slopes and bridges) made it much more playable for me personally i had alot of fun on that map in CTF and Slayer.

 

[The Librarian]

Elongation sucked balls

I never had fun on that map, slayer or objective. It was so claustrophobic.

 

[KevinRo]

The Best—and Worst—Halo Map Remakes of All Time by Alco (MLG Writer)

I agree with most of it.

Coagulation and Reflection need to be swapped.

Coagulation was awesome, it improved upon the Blood Gulch the same way Beaver Creek improved on Battle Creek.

I think ALL the Anniversary maps are superb. Seriously, a really good freaking job on the remakes.

Also, I just wished they would've released the Midship remake earlier in Halo3's lifespan. It really came out too late to be enjoyed by the masses. The same for the Anniversary Maps. It's a shame realy.

 

[Stinkles]

-------
Unrelated:

You know what Halo needs? Dragon shouts. Secret words of power that unleash destruction.

ELLIS! RUN!

 

[Magni]

The Best—and Worst—Halo Map Remakes of All Time by Alco (MLG Writer)

I agree with most of it.

So do I. Pretty good list overall.

So fucking wrong on Coagulation. Best map in the series.

Really? The only thing that was better was the bases IMO. The BR replacing the Pistol along with the larger map made a huge difference. Though like for Tombstone, the Reach version was much more well remade.

 

[lybertyboy]

ELLIS! RUN!

bailout.gif

 

[StalkerUKCG]

ELLIS! RUN!

.... Kinect based eager egg confirmed !

Someone with a kinect say every word on This page, before the frankie post

Try, "Chess Knight, Lightning Bolt, Recon, Fyrewulff, Lunchbox and Legacy" first

 

[KevinRo]

So do I. Pretty good list overall.



Really? The only thing that was better was the bases IMO. The BR replacing the Pistol along with the larger map made a huge difference. Though like for Tombstone, the Reach version was much more well remade.

Why do people forget the AMMO???

Coagulation had freaking Sniper and Rocket Ammo. I still don't understand why Bungle removed AMMO for weapons from maps. Seriously. Where is the AMMO GUYS?

 

[Blue Ninja]

Unrelated:

You know what Halo needs? Dragon shouts. Secret words of power that unleash destruction.

Yes. It also needs an open world with the same colour palette as Forge World and dragons shaped like Frankie (and voiced by him, too) that swoop in from time to time to attack you.

 

[thezerofire]

Reflection looks awesome, but the textures make the map pretty poor. Grenade sticks to wooden floor? Feels bad man.

 

[StalkerUKCG]

Why do people forget the AMMO???

Coagulation had freaking Sniper and Rocket Ammo. I still don't understand why Bungle removed AMMO for weapons from maps. Seriously. Where is the AMMO GUYS?

No idea, i remember modded Halo 3 Gametypes that added rocket ammo boxes to the maps that worked.