Welfare
Member
How is JiP good? It's terrible and doesn't belong in a competitive environment.
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Halo TMCC |OT2| 3V4 Industries
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How is JiP good? It's terrible and doesn't belong in a competitive environment.
VincentMatts
Member
Thing is, Xbox Live isnt a professional competitive gaming league. Its an online service. If you were talking about MLG or something, then yes, id agree.
Man, on the OG xbox, playing Rainbow Six was exactly like that and it was amazing. I made so many friends just going into servers, chatting with all the players in between rounds, or when you died. It was an amazing way to make new friends. Then halo2 came out, made the party system, matchmaking and it all went to hell.
Pretty sure 343 said that Warzone will have JIP whereas Arena won't.
Poodlestrike
Banned
People (speaking broadly) do still have the patience. Setting aside the aforementioned MOBA example, CounterStrike doesn't have this issue, nor Team Fortress. Neither is cursed with a plague of quitters. It's not something inherent to the genre, it's a problem with the current setup not sufficiently disincentivizing it.
I could a social/ranked split happening, where quite penalties and jail are the norm in ranked gameplay, and JiP in social. That could work. In the MCC, cross-game playlists are clearly going to remain unranked (for good reason), but in
Halo 5
It doesn't have to be competetive... You are put in matches, where you are losing by 20 points and that's straight up not fun for anyone except the team that is destroying you.
Your logic also fails, because Halo is meant to be a competetive shooter. Bungie always said that and 343i is still saying it.
Welfare
Member
You didn't even give an answer to my question. How is it good?
VincentMatts
Member
Yeah they do, but those people i find are mostly on PC. Not consoles. There maybe more on consoles these days but there no way to tell since everything uses matchmaking.
ElzarTheBam
Member
I would like to apologise as my behaviour contributed to getting that community thread closed.
Saying that, see y'all in the H5 OT.
<3
Saying that, see y'all in the H5 OT.
<3
VincentMatts
Member
Well look at Destiny. Most of the game modes that dont use MM, i dont even touch them. And im sure im not the only one. Thats why MM can be good, it makes it easy to find people.
Now if you go into a game, its already started and your team is getting hammered, then the game should just ask you if you want it to count in your stats. Thats what everyone is worried about anyway.
Welfare
Member
You can find players in pre and post game lobbies. JiP is you joining a game that's in progress, so how does that help to find players more than the standard pre/post game lobbies where players can communicate/shit on others without having to focus on the game?
That's just band-aiding a problem that shouldn't happen to begin with.
In games like Destiny and CoD, JiP affects those games severely less so than Halo. CoD and Destiny don't have Power Weapons to time, respawns are usually instant, and power positions aren't that effective with Supers and Killstreaks. In Halo, besides getting lucky, if you lose power positions and weapons, most of the time you will lose. Joining in progress defeats Halo's "everyone starts off equal" as you can't start off equal in a game that has already started without you being there.
Poodlestrike
Banned
But MM =/= JiP.
And personally? I'm not concerned about my stats, except in a tangential sort of way. I want to have fun. Hopping into a CTF match with only 1 other team mate down by 2 flags isn't fun. Getting ranked down because of it and having to play against people playing with their feet definitely isn't fun.
VincentMatts
Member
If youre talking about just regular servers like i was saying before (R6 style), then i have no problems with that. But JIP was created to make it easy for casuals to get into games and find people without effort. A lot of people like not having to search for people, or servers, they just want the game to do it for them. Those people do exsist.
For me, the games who do that, i just use the first game im joining into as a practice game until the next one starts.
VincentMatts
Member
Oh look, i totally get what your saying. Going into a game where your already getting hammered isnt fun. But it also happens to me all the time in BF4, a game in which there is a server list that i use 100% of the time to get into games. Thats not a MM problem.
The Henery
Member
They don't give a shit buddy. Maybe there was a budget allocated for post launch MCC playlist support but it got spunked on basically remaking the game 5 months after it launched.
I literally played Smashed AR starts the other night. Literally. Which begs the question: if they can be bothered to implement the droppings of some rookie Forger from 2008, why the F U C K can't they put the H3 MLG maps and gametypes in?
Computer
Member
Halo is a game that has had a issues with quitters from day one of XBL and no one comes up with solution's other then penalties that do not work. No one wants to play a game that is a complete blow out. No one wants to play a game that is 4 v 1. This is why there needs to be a white flag option. If the entire team or even both teams agree that the loosing team should surrender the game and take a loss then the game ends. Its so simple I don't understand why the hell it is not in every Halo game.
Honestly, I'm fairly certain some GAFer would happily take the reins of MCC playlist management for peanuts (or FREE) if 343i would be so bold as to let them.
I still can't believe there aren't any Forge maps in any of the H2A playlists at this point either. Wasn't that supposed to be the caveat to the "H2A is only shipping with six maps"?
Welfare
Member
Any Gaffer would've done a much better job with playlist management in Halo 4 and I have no idea why playlists aren't getting update frequently. 343 says that they have 2 different teams working on MCC and Halo 5, so where the fuck is the support?
Joining H4 games in progress on the 360 and getting stuck with huge deficits was perhaps the most aggravating part of Halo 4 multiplayer to me, right after random ordnance drops.
It directly affected how little I played it, compared to past Halos.
I'm so very glad it's gone from H4 on MCC.
I can deal with it in Warzone in H5, i think. Teams of that size can handle being down a guy or two better than a 4v4 or 8v8 match, i would think. And it's inherently less competitive than Arena.
I agree that severe quit penalties/quitter jails are the way to go. Not global Join in Progress.
It directly affected how little I played it, compared to past Halos.
I'm so very glad it's gone from H4 on MCC.
I can deal with it in Warzone in H5, i think. Teams of that size can handle being down a guy or two better than a 4v4 or 8v8 match, i would think. And it's inherently less competitive than Arena.
I agree that severe quit penalties/quitter jails are the way to go. Not global Join in Progress.
Join in progress would be a huge move for arena style Halo, I can't wrap my head around what it would be like.
Warzone continues to look like the perfect sandpit for ideas which don't quite fit with Arena. Joining a losing game sucks, but I'm not going to be as salty losing when I joined to a 500 point deficit, instead of being there at the start and losing by that margin.
Warzone continues to look like the perfect sandpit for ideas which don't quite fit with Arena. Joining a losing game sucks, but I'm not going to be as salty losing when I joined to a 500 point deficit, instead of being there at the start and losing by that margin.
wesleyshark
Banned
Forerunner
Member
I mean what was the last major update? ODST I believe, and since then they haven't really said anything. Actually I think they added team snipers but that's about it.
AllIsOneIsNone
Banned
Damn, just when I was getting back into the Halo community thread...oh well.
I think I may play through all the MCC campaigns one more time before Halo 5, but I think I'm done with the multiplayer. Halo 4 is definitely improved over initial release, but it still doesn't have that lasting power for me the other games had, plus most of the maps are pretty underwhelming. The other games are great in theory, but quitting is worse than I feel like it ever was in the past and the ranked matchmaking is worse, maybe the two are connected. Because of this I can't get on a decent team and keep getting first place on my team but lose every blessed match. Just tired of it.
I think I may play through all the MCC campaigns one more time before Halo 5, but I think I'm done with the multiplayer. Halo 4 is definitely improved over initial release, but it still doesn't have that lasting power for me the other games had, plus most of the maps are pretty underwhelming. The other games are great in theory, but quitting is worse than I feel like it ever was in the past and the ranked matchmaking is worse, maybe the two are connected. Because of this I can't get on a decent team and keep getting first place on my team but lose every blessed match. Just tired of it.
Fata1moose
Banned
I honestly don't even want join in progress for Warzone, I hate going into a game and not having proper orientation on how the team is playing. From the other perspective, if my team quits, I'd want the game to end as quickly as possible. By the time people join there's a good chance the other team already gained an advantage anyway, especially in objective game types. At least in Halo 4 you could tell if you were going to join in progress as you would see the player cards, so you had a chance to switch networks and not join. It'd be nice to have an option to turn off join in progress games.
AllIsOneIsNone
Banned
Well without splitscreen play, a quitter only means one person quits in any game, so that may help at least a little. Also, warzone will be individual-performance heavy (as in your performance drives your individual progression) so losing a match shouldn't be as big of a deal, almost akin to Destiny's system. The games are also 20-25 minutes so no JiP would be a pain if a few people quit early.
I've always said they should implement a system where JiP is locked after a certain point in the match, maybe halfway or 2/3 of the way through a game. Then you won't get caught joining a game and losing at the very end.
Forerunner
Member
I know they said somewhere that WZ matches last 20-25 mins, the ones at E3 were just sped up. I know I wouldn't want to play that long and still have it 5v12 or whatever. I don't mind JiP for large game types like WZ or even BTB, however I can understand not having them for 4v4 and the more competitive modes.
i'd imagine 5 v 12 would end quickly with the full team capping all bases and destroying the other teams core. certainly shouldnt take the average length of a regular 12v12 match to accomplish that at least.
I thought they were in the process of simply making the X360 Reach discs backward compatible?
Kinda hard to justify adding it to MCC if they can just do that eh?
Fata1moose
Banned
Besides 1080p, 60 FPS(ish) and dedicated servers? It's easy to justify, if they do it they need to make the multiplayer free so the community is not divided though. Still, it's not likely to happen though I can dream.
link1201
Member
That would be good enough for me. I just can't go back to the 360 controller now but I really miss reach SWAT.
I mean true dat, true dat... but I'm just assuming 343i is in full H5 mode until November.
Also obligatory:
link1201
Member
I agree. A ranking system that works will do wonders. I know the BETA ranking was somewhat wonky but even still I was getting close matches on a very regular basis. I hope that continues during launch.
Forerunner
Member
First game of the day starts 4v5, off to a good start!
Fata1moose
Banned
I got placed into gold playing by myself, then the game matched me against full party onyx groups and I got wrecked.
link1201
Member
For whatever reason in the BETA you could lose ranking but not go down a level. I am not sure if that affected placement or not. I am hoping they give us an update on ranking soon. It is a major factor in this games' longevity imo.
Forerunner
Member
lol
SmartWaffles
Member
JiP won't fix anything, and unless you have good enough incentive for the losing ones to stay in the game people that quit will quit regardless of how "harsh" the quit punishment is.
ViewtifulJC
Banned
Dedicated servers they said
and we don't need JIP, we just need 24+ hour bans for people who quit all the time.
and we don't need JIP, we just need 24+ hour bans for people who quit all the time.
Welfare
Member
Good god please no. I can already imagine joining mid game to be losing by like 500 points.
Gnome Scat
Member
I'd be up for that if they added a ZB Legendary Slayer option. ZB in Campaign would be fun, too.
lol
that's just a Halo issue as a whole. until theres dedicated servers this happens from time to time. the best is when i have the sword and the melee guy kills me, and he doesnt lose any health
Fata1moose
Banned
I hated that nonsense in Reach, where we had games with zero bloom, or half bloom, etc..If Reach gets a port to the MCC they need to keep things consistent across the board, which would hopefully be a reduced or zero bloom gametype.
Welfare
Member
343 doesn't know consistency. TU 85% Bloom TU 0% Bloom TU with Bleedthrough 0% Bloom it's all a fucking mess. I still can't be sure if Halo 4 in MCC is the TU across all the playlists.