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Hamas terrorists infiltrated Israel. 1400+ killed, 2400+ wounded, 240+ abducted. Israel declares war
- Thread starter ADiTAR
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Jinzo Prime
Gold Member
It's an election year, Biden can't drag the US into another war in the Middle East. It is politically unviable.
Thaedolus
Member
While being totally cognizant of the actual lives that are at risk here and knowing this isn’t some video game, it’s actually pretty interesting to see how effective the countermeasures Israel has for these attacks. Ukraine, too, I think should show the world that starting a war in a country with modern defenses is a recipe for what’s most likely at best a Pyrrhic victory. China should be taking notes if they think they’re going to invade Taiwan.
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Wildebeest
Member
The thing is that the Iran regime are just massive shit stirrers and broadly disliked even at home, but what they are doing is trying to provoke Israel into overreacting and looking worse than them. It is not difficult to see.
Apocryphon
Member
No, what you need to do is accept that you can’t act with impunity. Israel has assassinated high ranking officials for years, both on Iranian soil and abroad. Last week you bombed an embassy. Yes Iran is a problem and yes they have funded militant groups and helped coordinate attacks on Israelis inside Israel and abroad, but until now Iran has always operated through its proxies. You seem to think that Hams and Hezbollah are effectively Iran and that attacks conducted by those groups are the same as being attacked directly by Iran, but that isn’t true. You bombed an embassy. They couldn’t not retaliate. They announced the strike and used weapons that would take hours to reach Israel, fully knowing that US assets in the region, Israeli anti air defence, and Jordan would shoot most of the ordinance down. The Iranians are moronic but this was nothing but posturing to appease their regional allies.
Israel will retaliate but it will have to be constrained because you aren’t getting the support you would require to really take it to the Iranian, particularly now. Like it or not you’re a protectorate of the US and you lack the capacity to conduct expeditionary warfare against a nation state like Iran on your own.
Go_Ly_Dow
Member
Iran says no more attacks, as drone strike fails
Not a single drone or cruise missile sent from Iran made it to Israel last night. The damage from ballistic missiles was minimal.
www.spectator.co.uk
FunkMiller
Gold Member
Sometimes internal politics are less important than the defence of the global world order.
Venom Snake
Member
What Netanyahu is doing is very risky and can only lead to escalation, which the West does not want. These excuses of yours are getting frustrating, just like when the Israeli army attacked a humanitarian convoy in which my compatriot died, only for your ambassador to shower us with lies and insults for disproving your version of events.
No one is stupid enough to believe that attacking an embassy in another country "because there is a terrorist there" is a rational action and not an attempt to provoke a wider conflict in which NATO troops will have to be involved.
And don't even give me that stupid shit about the war in Ukraine. This whole conflict has handicapped us economically, energy prices have increased by several hundred percent, causing the closure of several dozen thousand companies in my country, mainly domestic ones. Nearly 20 million people fleeing the war crossed our border, over a million of whom received accommodation, food, access to kindergartens and nurseries (you won't even believe how few of them there are in Poland), and received social and health benefits in a system that barely supported us before the war even started. What more do you think we should do, send NATO troops all the way to Lugansk and provoke a nuclear rain?
The problem is that in this case there was little the West could do, on the one hand trying to support Ukraine and, on the other hand, trying to survive the economic shock and a significant change in priorities.
Now imagine that Russia is bombing our territory because we are an intermediary in providing military supplies to Ukraine, or because there is a man here who is responsible for operations against Russia. Would it be a enough of a war and enough of a commitment if the West triggered Article 5?
There is a certain line between de-escalating a threat and showing force in blank in the hope that the allies will follow the blow and comply with your demands, right after they started to have doubts whether this conflict was heading in the right direction.
I'm listening to comments on the news today and i don't see any will to engage in another duel. I see no foundation on which Netanyahu can make his case, but he does it anyway. So something is going on and i hope it doesn't end up involving you in anything that the West rightly won't support, so be careful what you wish for.
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Roufianos
Member
No thanks, the West should stay out. Israel can protect itself.
efyu_lemonardo
May I have a cookie?
The ayatollah regime in Iran will have to be brought down, one way or another. And the connection between that regime and Putin's Russia will also need to be severed. But if the west has a smarter plan that can accomplish these goals without igniting a world war, I'm all for it. I just hope they do indeed have a plan.
Because the EU's shortsided energy strategy over the last decade or so (basically since Fukushima) was a disaster that pretty much anyone could see coming. Divesting from nuclear power in Europe, especially in Germany, was a really poor move.
Because the EU's shortsided energy strategy over the last decade or so (basically since Fukushima) was a disaster that pretty much anyone could see coming. Divesting from nuclear power in Europe, especially in Germany, was a really poor move.
Auto_aim1
MeisaMcCaffrey
Iran knows if there's more escalation there will be a regime change. That's why they gave 5 hours+ warning to Israel to prepare for drone/missile strikes.
There's no way this ends in a net positive for Iran considering even Saudi will join the US and Israel to fuck them up.
There's no way this ends in a net positive for Iran considering even Saudi will join the US and Israel to fuck them up.
Where do you think Hamas is getting their support from?
Iran.
Where do you think Russia is getting support from?
Iran.
Where do you think Yemen's Houthi's are getting support from?
Iran.
Issues in Iraq, Bahrain, Lebanon, Syria?
Iran.
How many fuckin' times does the world need the answers to the test's Iran hands out?
Kick a bully in the crotch then help them rebuild a better place.
All roads lead back to Iran, the ME and Africa would be so much better off without their regime, and if and when they get their nuclear program up and running then they can exercise their strength like russia is doing.
Hiding behind threats of escalation.
Time's running out boys, tick tock.
Kar
Member
We can move on after the Iranian regime and it's proxies are all dead.
Hang on, so by your "logic" if Israel paid a bunch of kurds to cross into Iran and blow up some airfields then iran could."only" retaliate against the Kurds, not Israel? We all know that wouldn't fly.
Iran has been the ones behind a TON of shit in the ME for DECADES, they fully deserve whatever flack they get.
The "war through proxy" is only a game the nuclear superpowers get to play, right now that's basically the US and China.
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Dude I get that you're angry with what's going on in your country but it feels like you're coming in here and getting mad at us lot for not giving 1000% support and because some of us are questioning the reactionary nature. You're pretty much calling for world war and you're already talking about how your country needs to go at war with another country. Majority of the other countries don't even want a war.
Venom Snake
Member
How about this idea: the West has no plan because it is still wandering through the political and economic consequences of past mistakes.
Highly developed countries may have solid foundations, but what stands on them may not necessarily be the case. What is happening in Europe right now is a drunken dance between good and bad decisions and those that changed the center of gravity only after many decades of macro-changes.
The conflict in Ukraine has highlighted many flaws in modern Europe's thinking and its short-sighted policies. These are lessons from which we have still not fully drawn the right conclusions, let alone dealt with what they borught. So the last thing we should do right now is to open a new front line, when the only thing we can really afford is making statements.
Chittagong
Gold Member
The most depressing thing of this is the apparent ease with which Israel and allies shot down 99% of the missiles and had apparently no casualties.
Then think if what has been going on in Ukraine for two years. Clearly the plan is to reduce the country to ashes and then have west rebuild it on their terms. Or Russia. Whoever takes it.
Then think if what has been going on in Ukraine for two years. Clearly the plan is to reduce the country to ashes and then have west rebuild it on their terms. Or Russia. Whoever takes it.
ManaByte
Banned
Anti-Israel protester sobs during arraignment after 'murder you' remark to California mayor, city council
Riddhi Patel, 28, threatened Bakersfield Mayor Karen Goh and city council members for not backing a Gaza cease-fire resolution against Israel.
www.foxnews.com
Just to put the embassy strike into context, see who they got
A bunch of top Iranian brass who are DIRECTLY in charge of fomenting trouble abroad, essentially the Iranian equivalent to the KGB or CIA. No random civilians that we know of. No children, probably no women. It's as clean a strike as you could possibly hope for and should significantly retard Iranian efforts to support HAMAS and hezbollah. Iran FAFO. That Israel hasn't done this to the Hamas leadership in Quatar is likely because A. those guys are probably ALWAYS within 5 feet of a bunch of kids acting as shields and B. there is a lot of pressure, probably from the US, to stop Israel from enacting justice.
Remember when the US did basically the same thing a few years back?
www.bbc.com
When we put targeted strikes (aka "assassinations") on the table for one, it's on the table for all. And when we let waves of poorly guided rockets, missiles, and drones go as an "ehh, no real harm done, it's not like boots on the ground or planes in the sky" response we are also normalizing that type of stuff as a tool of diplomacy, if only for a domestic news "win". Kinda like when the US 'retaliated' for the killing of 3 Guard soldiers by hitting spots in Suria and Iraq, possibly killing civilians as well. We are really close to just letting robots fight for us and handwave away any destruction they cause as "oopsie, robots aren't perfect!" but since no soldiers/pilots were at risk, it's all ok.
A bunch of top Iranian brass who are DIRECTLY in charge of fomenting trouble abroad, essentially the Iranian equivalent to the KGB or CIA. No random civilians that we know of. No children, probably no women. It's as clean a strike as you could possibly hope for and should significantly retard Iranian efforts to support HAMAS and hezbollah. Iran FAFO. That Israel hasn't done this to the Hamas leadership in Quatar is likely because A. those guys are probably ALWAYS within 5 feet of a bunch of kids acting as shields and B. there is a lot of pressure, probably from the US, to stop Israel from enacting justice.
Remember when the US did basically the same thing a few years back?
Qasem Soleimani: US kills top Iranian general in Baghdad air strike
The killing of Qasem Soleimani marks a major escalation in tensions between Washington and Tehran.
www.bbc.com
When we put targeted strikes (aka "assassinations") on the table for one, it's on the table for all. And when we let waves of poorly guided rockets, missiles, and drones go as an "ehh, no real harm done, it's not like boots on the ground or planes in the sky" response we are also normalizing that type of stuff as a tool of diplomacy, if only for a domestic news "win". Kinda like when the US 'retaliated' for the killing of 3 Guard soldiers by hitting spots in Suria and Iraq, possibly killing civilians as well. We are really close to just letting robots fight for us and handwave away any destruction they cause as "oopsie, robots aren't perfect!" but since no soldiers/pilots were at risk, it's all ok.
RJMacready73
Simps for Amouranth
I'm sure the Iranians got a lot of useful information from this attack no matter the result
The useful information is that they’re completely screwed whenever we decide it’s over for them, tbh
near
Gold Member
It was a dumb move whichever way you look at it. They're very fortunate that the US refuse to seek an escalation at this point, but what Israel will do is anyone's guess.
And they are right.
It's a sad reality but it's true.
People in this thread are scared to live through WW3, even though they won't really feel anything besides higher prices. Oh noes.
We got rockets from Gaza since 2006, and we mostly just defended ourselves, and the world kept stopping us from going full ham and wiping them off. Then we got 10/7. So now Iran shows us they can shoot 300+ shit at us and we blocked it, like Iron Dome blocked Hamas rockets. For how long? when Iran does decide to go 10/7, what then? oops?
No, Iran needs to be dealt with now before they go nuclear. And you all can sit by your keyboard and gasp.
Gp1
Member
Maybe that was the idea.
Retaliate the Israeli embassy strike, without further escalation by telegraphing the counter strike.
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efyu_lemonardo
May I have a cookie?
There are plenty of ways to destabilize Iran from the inside and cause a change of regime without starting WW3. The U.S. already did exactly this back in the
But they aren't willing to do it again. I don't really understand why.
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near
Gold Member
The Iron Dome demonstrated how incredible it is defensively, and I don't think that has changed since the attack. Iran fired those missiles and drones in a way that attempted to stretch the Israeli defence geographically. They were fired from Iran, Yemen, Syria, Iraq and Lebanon, 180 degrees of assault. Iron Dome is no joke. Although, I wouldn't go so far saying the attack did nothing. Interestingly, the ones that got through hit Nevatim airbase, which is apparently where the F-35s took off from to strike the Iranian consulate.
Thaedolus
Member
It wasn’t just Iron Dome, multiple allies were involved in shooting them down…which should really show Iran they’re not just technically outmatched if they keep fucking around, but they’re vastly outnumbered in the region
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sankt-Antonio
:^)--?-<
Israel has been continuously beefing up the iron dome since 2007.
It’s not that it could be build over night.
Edit :
Next to the iron dome Israel also has the Iron beam, David’s sling and other air stopping tech.
Anyway. Hope Israel takes out Irans nuclear program regardless of international judgement. The world will thank them once the dust settles.
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near
Gold Member
Really? Haven't stumbled upon anything that suggested that. Completely thought Israel handled the situation on its own there, great that they weren't alone.
It was a joint effort by Israel, US, Jordan and a bit of British and Saudis.
Thaedolus
Member
From what I was reading the US, UK, France, KSA, and Jordan all responded
P:axMagellanic
Member
It doesn't work like that.
A few ballistic missiles got through, which means the shield failed. The ballistic missiles are the worrying weapons because theoretically any one of those could contain a warhead(s) of something more potent and nasty than a conventional explosive. And you don't have a clue what they're carrying until they hit.
That's the thing which has almost guaranteed that the Israelis will hit back with something against their nuclear program and missile sites/factories.
I know the RAF was involved in the skies, the British PM was on the news saying how "proud" he was of our forces.
While we may have nukes, who knows, we basically built defensive systems for this moment. besides our planes I don't think we have offensive missiles programs.
Thaedolus
Member
Pretty sure you do bruh hah. But I think there’s wisdom keeping what Israel’s maximalist capabilities are a secret.
Gp1
Member
Jericho II and III (and probably IV by now)
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Yoda
Member
I feel you're deliberately misinterpreting my post: First sentence is a conclusion anyone with > room temp IQ could come to given recent history. The latter doesn't mention any country/side intentionally and comes with the implied observation war is usually a bad thing. What isn't there is a moral statement on whether the country has the right retaliate (you concocted this yourself), which morally it certainly does, but it's questionable whether it'll be a good long-term strategic decision (for Israel and others).
Liljagare
Member
Who backs Iran?
RuSSia, and China, UAE.
How much longer is the western world just going to stand by and gape, while RuSSia and China keeps on gobbling up nations, and purchasing vital infrastructure companies/vital resources/vital tech companies? And, why are we allowing the UAE to determine oil prices? And do the same? UAE have pretty much been allowed to buy out the African continent.
Those two nations are not friendly to anyone, and have their fingers in the muck of almost every conflict on the planet, and will gladly stoke the fire in any conflict they can.
UAE is probarly the most ducked up of them all though, and we just let them behave like they do, because, moneyz.
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6502
Member
This was a warning shot. Israel had to restock iron dome after hamass launched hundreds of rockets after October. Iran launched 300 odd weapons this time and it took USA, UK, French and Jordan actors to help protect Israel with days of notice, with a state of the art defence infrastructure at a cost of $1billion according to bbc.
Overwhelming hi-tech defences with putt-putt drones is a serious issue. De-escalation is the only option for the next few months, active engagement will be costly. I don't know the best reaction; but if it is offensive it will require a significant investment.
Iran couldn't survive a symmetrical response, but in a way I suspect these religous zealots would welcome it; the political turmoil and destabilising effect is what they sought all along.
There are no easy choices here.
Overwhelming hi-tech defences with putt-putt drones is a serious issue. De-escalation is the only option for the next few months, active engagement will be costly. I don't know the best reaction; but if it is offensive it will require a significant investment.
Iran couldn't survive a symmetrical response, but in a way I suspect these religous zealots would welcome it; the political turmoil and destabilising effect is what they sought all along.
There are no easy choices here.
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Israel will retaliate.
www.ynet.co.il
Hamas is now saying it will only release 20 hostages. Wants more for them.
ישראל נערכת לתגובה ועשויה להפתיע, האמריקנים יעודכנו מראש. איראן מעלה כוננות
לאחר הצהרת הרמטכ"ל לפיה תהיה תגובה על מתקפת איראן, ישראל מעבירה מסרים: "לא מעוניינים במלחמה ולא רוצים לסדוק את הקואליציה הבינלאומית". המטרה: לגבות מטהרן מחיר. לאמריקנים הובטח אחרי החיסול בדמשק: הפעם נעדכן אתכם. בטהרן מאיימים: "מוכנים להשתמש בנשק שבו טרם השתמשנו"
www.ynet.co.il
Hamas is now saying it will only release 20 hostages. Wants more for them.
LordOfChaos
Member
Lmao
FUBARx89
Member
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