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Hannibal S3 |OT| Man Destroys God. Hannibal Eats Man. Hannibal Inherits The Earth.

Am I misremembering here, or was the atmosphere and Florentine splendour actually more striking and potently captured in Ridley Scott's film? I mean, there are more episodes to come, so this is really premature, but am I totally off here? That shot of Bedelia that is posted above is quite nice, but I fondly remember the visuals of Hannibal, and its dense crowds, and the beautiful, enveloping architecture. I can't speak with great specificity, though, as it has been years since I watch Scott's film...

Of course, the formal qualities -- the florid, phantasmagoric aesthetic gambits of the television show -- are totally distinct from Scott's Hannibal. Still, I recall being struck by the considerable beauty of the scenes of, say, Anthony Hopkins sauntering through the throng of people on the streets of Florence as he's being secretly pursued. Am I bestowing too much praise on that film? A revisit is in order, I think.
 

scoobs

Member
LOVE this series, but can't say I found the first episode very interesting. Gorgeous visuals, but an overall disappointment for me. I can't wait for things to pick up, I'm sure it will be incredible
 

Zoe

Member
Did people (in Italy, maybe?) not know who Dr. Fell was before Hannibal took his identity?

Dr Fell came from Paris, so it doesn't seem like it. Only the one guy had worked with him academically in the past.

He also killed the person who was originally lined up for the job.
 
LOVE this series, but can't say I found the first episode very interesting. Gorgeous visuals, but an overall disappointment for me. I can't wait for things to pick up, I'm sure it will be incredible

Agreed. I was somewhat surprised to see the reactions here...perhaps it is to be expected in having such an exciting show return but I found this episode to be a bore. It was shot and scored beautifully but it seemed like they were more interested in justifying the on-location shooting via B-Roll than moving forward with the plot.

Truth be told, I don't find Bedelia to be all that interesting a conversationalist either. She's certainly no substitute for Jack Crawford or Will Graham in positions opposite to Hannibal. She seemed to condense and repeat Hannibal's musings into one-word questions fairly often as well.
 
Am I misremembering here, or was the atmosphere and Florentine splendour actually more striking and potently captured in Ridley Scott's film? I mean, there are more episodes to come, so this is really premature, but am I totally off here? That shot of Bedelia that is posted above is quite nice, but I fondly remember the visuals of Hannibal, and its dense crowds, and the beautiful, enveloping architecture. I can't speak with great specificity, though, as it has been years since I watch Scott's film...

Of course, the formal qualities -- the florid, phantasmagoric aesthetic gambits of the television show -- are totally distinct from Scott's Hannibal. Still, I recall being struck by the considerable beauty of the scenes of, say, Anthony Hopkins sauntering through the throng of people on the streets of Florence as he's being secretly pursued. Am I bestowing too much praise on that film? A revisit is in order, I think.

Scott's Hannibal was an absolutely gorgeous film. The scenes in Italy had a rich atmosphere and painterly quality that's among the best looking stuff Scott has ever done. That said, I think you could probably fund a whole season of Fuller's Hannibal just using the craft service budget on that production. For the budget and limited scope Fuller had, I think he did a marvelous job.
 

Dysun

Member
Fuller isn't holding back anything, love to see his vision come through without network meddling. Nothing else like this on TV
 

jett

D-Member
Am I misremembering here, or was the atmosphere and Florentine splendour actually more striking and potently captured in Ridley Scott's film? I mean, there are more episodes to come, so this is really premature, but am I totally off here? That shot of Bedelia that is posted above is quite nice, but I fondly remember the visuals of Hannibal, and its dense crowds, and the beautiful, enveloping architecture. I can't speak with great specificity, though, as it has been years since I watch Scott's film...

Of course, the formal qualities -- the florid, phantasmagoric aesthetic gambits of the television show -- are totally distinct from Scott's Hannibal. Still, I recall being struck by the considerable beauty of the scenes of, say, Anthony Hopkins sauntering through the throng of people on the streets of Florence as he's being secretly pursued. Am I bestowing too much praise on that film? A revisit is in order, I think.

It's really silly to attempt to compare a massive Ridley Scott film production to a TV show made on a shoestring budget literally hanging by a single thread.
 

Saty

Member
I don't know what is it about this show that with each new season starting i feel like i forgot bunch of stuff from the season before.

Were i to understand Belinda arranged for Dimmond to find out Hannibal is using a false identity and attend the lecture?
Asking mainly because of of what Hannibal asked her about participating: 'Did you know what he would do?' ; 'You were curious what Mr. Dimmond would do' ; 'Did you anticipate our thoughts? Counter-thoughts? Rationalizations?'.

Sound like she pushed Dimmond into that position or something.
 
Just finished shooting a panel at this festival and Bryan Fuller was on it!!! AAAAAAH!

Such a cool dude. Said Talented Mr Ripley is ep 1, can't remember the inspiration for ep 2 (sorry), but Bound will be a huge influence on ep 4 and 6.

Spoilers for sexiness:
lesbian scene
is episode 6.

They're screening episode 2!!! But I'm not working that panel :'(

Also, said that this season is basically told in a dream state and that ep 2, specifically, has NO reliable narrator.

He also touched on ratings and said NBC has been so good to them. Someone asked about being picked up elsewhere and he said the downside to that is budget cuts because you're regarded as "sloppy seconds".
 
Edit: Also, was Bedelia somehow the one to contact Anthony? Is that part of her participation? Sorry guys, I'm a dumb dumb :(

I think her 'participation' was due to the fact that she knew what was going to happen and yet did nothing to stop it.

This is a great start to season 3! The art and style of the whole episode is just so fantasticly done. It's not like anything on television.
 

wenis

Registered for GAF on September 11, 2001.
Think a gif would be even better if you edited in the she's in the audience, Hannibal looks at her, then away, then seat is empty too.

qp9qgWi.gif


Hopefully there is some delightfully upsetting news I can caption this one with in the following weeks.
 
I'd totally forgotten this was already back. I watched the episode last night, and to no surprise I thought it was really good. Seeing Bedelia so terrified of the situation she finds herself in was unsettling, we haven't seen her character appear anything but confident until now.
 

wenis

Registered for GAF on September 11, 2001.
You are tarnishing the original work with those .gifs. Hannibal demands .webm

webm is trash. it was a mistake.
[and not enough browsers support it. I'll switch when it becomes standard. not some weird internet says so]
 

Majmun

Member
Woooh, season 3 is being aired now? Didn't even knew that.

Watched the first two seasons back to back one month ago. Totally loved it. The production is insane. I love how everything looks. It's so dreadful and nightmare-ish. And I'm not talking about the dead bodies...

Can't wait to continue with this show.
 

ivysaur12

Banned
The other thing about Hannibal's manipulations that make him such a scary villain is the idea of being "seen". Hannibal "sees" everyone for who they are. He sees potential. He sees morale. Most seem boring or not worthy of them, but people like Bedelia -- what scares her is that he's seen her, and maybe it's someone that Bedelia is scared of. Is she participating or observing? She's participating, of course.

But that's the fear of Will Graham. Hannibal can't quite see him. That's where his intrigue stems from. Who is Will Graham?
 
qp9qgWi.gif


Hopefully there is some delightfully upsetting news I can caption this one with in the following weeks.
Not to burden you, but I think that GIF would be even better if it ended at the part where he sees the empty chair.

For some reason, seeing her running makes the impact less viscerally hilarious.

In conclusion, ending at the empty chair is the perfect "I'm done with this shit" GIF, while her running is "BAILOUT" perfected.

(E3, WWDC, Hannibal, So You Think You Can Dance, and ample time off work are making June rather awesome...)
 

wenis

Registered for GAF on September 11, 2001.
Not to burden you, but I think that GIF would be even better if it ended at the part where he sees the empty chair.

For some reason, seeing her running makes the impact less viscerally hilarious.

In conclusion, ending at the empty chair is the perfect "I'm done with this shit" GIF, while her running is "BAILOUT" perfected.

(E3, WWDC, Hannibal, So You Think You Can Dance, and ample time off work are making June rather awesome...)

just for you

Xg4FxYj.gif
 
He's using Bound as an influence.

Fuck's sake, as if this show couldn't get anymore top-notch.

We are, at the very least, meant to consider it as a serious possibility, I think.

That was exactly my read. We saw him doing it to Gideon's arm, where it played as just a sort of interesting/sadistic explanation for what was happening, and then we heard it further explained by Dimmond as to why those particular foods were chosen. At which point Bedelia looks up at Hannibal, and Hannibal gives the *tiniest* bit of a "well..." back at her.
 

ivysaur12

Banned
You, sir, are super lucky, and I am unreasonably excited about that spoiler. Better get working on my
Alana/Margot
fanfiction before it becomes too passé.


Well, that's the implication of feeding her oysters. It is worth noting that Dimmond - not Hannibal - is the one who revealed the practice of feeding oysters as a flavor enhancer to Bedelia, whereas we the audience saw it also in flashback with Gideon, meaning both that Hannibal is concealing this from her and that he has done this before with someone else whom he did actually eat. We are, at the very least, meant to consider it as a serious possibility, I think.

Mm. There seems to be an interesting link within the episode of Gideon and Bedelia. Two creatures who circle within Hannibal's sphere of influence, who he has maybe a fleeting curiosity for, but whom ultimately are not his equals and thus are not worthy of the time Hannibal has bestowed on each of them. At some point, he will bore of Bedelia.

She's trapped. She can't leave on that train because she's trapped in a different universe from every other person she comes in to contact with. Because she's in Hannibal's sphere, circling him, she can never truly be free. And she knows that.
 

T Dollarz

Member
Just watched the episode and I'm like fuuuuckkk... Bedelia being trapped reminds me of skylar...

Edit: loved the episode, thought it was beautifully shot and paced. Unnnffghhh so glad this show is back!!!
 

LaneDS

Member
Am I misremembering here, or was the atmosphere and Florentine splendour actually more striking and potently captured in Ridley Scott's film? I mean, there are more episodes to come, so this is really premature, but am I totally off here? That shot of Bedelia that is posted above is quite nice, but I fondly remember the visuals of Hannibal, and its dense crowds, and the beautiful, enveloping architecture. I can't speak with great specificity, though, as it has been years since I watch Scott's film...

Of course, the formal qualities -- the florid, phantasmagoric aesthetic gambits of the television show -- are totally distinct from Scott's Hannibal. Still, I recall being struck by the considerable beauty of the scenes of, say, Anthony Hopkins sauntering through the throng of people on the streets of Florence as he's being secretly pursued. Am I bestowing too much praise on that film? A revisit is in order, I think.

I think rewatching Hannibal, the film, in a post-Hannibal TV series world will really highlight how terrible that film is. Obviously that doesn't diminish good cinematography, but man, that movie is awful (especially now). Worth watching just to highlight how good we have it today, I think (or to laugh at Ray Liotta).
 
It's really silly to attempt to compare a massive Ridley Scott film production to a TV show made on a shoestring budget literally hanging by a single thread.

So, we should approach this TV show with the assumption that its visuals will never rival anything found in the feature films? Really? That's a foregone conclusion?
 

Astaereth

Member
Mm. There seems to be an interesting link within the episode of Gideon and Bedelia. Two creatures who circle within Hannibal's sphere of influence, who he has maybe a fleeting curiosity for, but whom ultimately are not his equals and thus are not worthy of the time Hannibal has bestowed on each of them. At some point, he will bore of Bedelia.

She's trapped. She can't leave on that train because she's trapped in a different universe from every other person she comes in to contact with. Because she's in Hannibal's sphere, circling him, she can never truly be free. And she knows that.

It feels as though both Gideon and Bedelia are substitutes for Will--Bedelia especially, who's basically Hannibal's consolation prize. I think he resents her for that considerably. Will Graham wouldn't be terrified of being eaten, and Will Graham wouldn't be pretending not to be a part of things--he would have been fully committed to the murder spree, in Hannibal's mind. And so beneath that exterior he's pretty fucking pissed at her and upset that this is what he has to settle for. He's not not going to play mind games with her, because hey, she's there, but I think he's very disappointed in her skill as an opponent. She was pretty good in her home after she finds Hannibal in the shower, and that's probably one reason he decided to take her with him; but her attempt to run out on him after the lecture is strictly amateur hour. What he says and does after that is intended to rub her nose in it.

From one perspective, Bedelia is too isolated by Hannibal to be with him on the train; from another, the point of Hannibal alone on the train is that Hannibal is always alone now, because he left his true companion bleeding on the floor back in Baltimore. The European trip has lost some of its appeal, and so he turns from his "peace" to elaborate murders once again (where prior to this, it seems as though he has only "disappeared" people in Europe, rather than staging their corpses). Each elaborate death display on the show has, in one way or another, been a form of communication, a twisted cry from a damaged heart. Hannibal's "meat heart" is perfect, carefully crafted and presented as if to deny that his own is broken; but either way, it stands alone. After a period of silence, Hannibal has begun to speak again, and it's only a matter of time before someone back home starts to listen.
 
Bugging the hell out of me that I can't remember the inspiration for episode 2. Help me out, film GAF. Classic movie that begins with "Don't..."
 
No, but in a world where TV episodes are made on a slim budget of 1-2 million dollars (no idea where this slots in, perhaps someone like ivy who is more familiar with the inner workings of television production could illuminate that?) it is silly to compare things like scale and scope and location shooting ability to a film with an 87 million dollar budget.

I wasn't necessarily comparing scale, scope, budget and location shooting ability. I was talking about aesthetically striking representations of Florence. I realize those other factors inform the latter, but it's as if you guys are suggesting that TV shows can't offer anything remotely comparable. Hannibal has already exceeded its televisual trappings (i.e., assumptions about what's visually possible or likely on TV) and now we're saying it's impossible for the show to offer a vision of Florence that is more memorable and striking than what is found in Scott's film? Seriously?

When I wrote, "was the atmosphere and Florentine splendour actually more striking and potently captured in Ridley Scott's film," I never assumed that this achievement was unequivocally out of the television show's reach, despite the budget disparity. After all, they shot this first episode in Florence, and this has hardly been an ugly looking show thus far. It didn't seem preposterous to me that they might offer something comparably arresting...I mean, there's such grandeur to that opening shot of Hannibal on the motorcycle, for example.
 

-griffy-

Banned
I don't want Hannibal the TV show to look like Hannibal the movie. I want exactly the specific type of vision that Fuller and his team have honed and created within their specific budget. It has forced them to get wildly creative with how they craft a mise en scene, resulting in perhaps the most visually unique TV series the medium has seen. Anything visually splendiferous that the TV series creates at this point would simply be different from what Ridley Scott's film looks like or strives for anyways, even ignoring the almost comparably unlimited possibility of external location shooting that the budget and schedule of a film at that level allows for.

I also think it's wildly premature to make any statements or definitive comparisons of this type when we have another 7 episodes or so of Hannibal and Bedelia traipsing across Europe to go. Getting hung up on specifically how Florence was captured in a single episode seems a mighty odd thing to focus on in an hour that gave us any number of creative and unique visuals (the opening night ride through Paris, the many aspect ratio transitions from flashback to present, Bedilia falling through the tub and the bubbles of her breath becoming the boiling of water as if she is being cooked, the blood dripping off the hare, the projector fading over Hannibal's face, the airborne blood hitting Bedelia's face, the trail of blood being left behind creating the dividing line between Hannibal and Bedelia, etc.).
 
I don't want Hannibal the TV show to look like Hannibal the movie.

Just to be clear, this isn't what I want...

It has forced them to get wildly creative with how the craft a mise en scene, resulting in perhaps the most visually unique TV series the medium has seen. Anything visually splendiferous that the TV series creates at this point would simply be different from what Ridley Scott's film looks like or strives for anyways

Right, which is why I don't think it's ludicrous or "silly" to entertain the idea that Fuller et al might be able to mount a representation of Florence that strikes us, and endures in our minds, in a manner that supersedes the Florentine bits in Scott's film.

I also think it's wildly premature to make any statements or definitive comparisons

Yes, I know. I just wanted to discuss this, but I didn't expect everyone to take it as an opportunity to defend a show that I'm not even dismissing. I realize there's more to come and I mentioned that my reaction is a bit premature in my first post. I probably should have waited a bit instead of precipitately launching into this now.
Getting hung up on specifically how Florence was captured in a single episode seems a mighty odd thing to focus on

I don't think so. The cinematic representation of urban spaces is hardly a "mighty odd thing" to focus on; a fair amount of academic scholarship has been committed to this topic, for example. The first episode is set in Florence, so why am I not allowed to discuss that? But, yes, it's only the first episode, so let's wait and see (which is what should have done, but I guess I hastily wanted to bring up the topic for discussion).

in an hour that gave us any number of creative and unique visuals (the opening night ride through Paris, the many aspect ratio transitions from flashback to present, Bedilia falling through the tub and the bubbles of her breath becoming the boiling of water as if she is being cooked, the blood dripping off the hare, the projector fading over Hannibal's face, the airborne blood hitting Bedelia's face, the trail of blood being left behind creating the dividing line between Hannibal and Bedelia, etc.).

Yes, it was very Hannibal. No paucity of the usual formal strengths. I know. In my first post, I mentioned its "florid, phantasmagoric aesthetic gambits."

This show is still pretty good, guys. That's clear. No need for lengthy encomiums to prove that point following even the slightest suggestion that something might be lacking.
 

Wiktor

Member
Hannibal looks far better than most movies cinematography-wise and better than almost every big budget movie, as those tend to be done very safely.
 

Monocle

Member
This show is still pretty good, guys. That's clear. No need for lengthy encomiums to prove that point following even the slightest suggestion that something might be lacking.
Why not though, when you bring up a somewhat misplaced critique of an episode so well controlled and clear of purpose? And purpose is the key word, isn't it? Hannibal has always been visually extravagant, but in a purposeful way, centering its imagery on subjects and symbols with narrative and thematic significance. This isn't the show for pornographic establishing shots of exotic locales. Everything has to mean something, and more often than not, that something will concern the characters. (Note how the last episode's most expansive shots occur as we follow Hannibal or Bedelia.)

That said, maybe at least wait a few more episodes before comparing the show unfavorably to a larger budget production with different aims?
 

Lumine

Member
Another gorgeous looking episode for sure.
A little thin on story though. Also not liking Gillian Anderson's character anymore. They almost ruined the ending of season 2 for me with her suddenly showing up in the last scene as a little twist. It didn't make sense to me as she was so obviously afraid of Hannibal and trying to get away from him while warning the others. Now this could've all been a game set up by both but here she is, once again, deathly afraid of him. Why did she go with him then in the first place?
Also these writers are such teases for waiting at least another episode on spilling the beans who survived last season's ending and who didn't. :p
 
Why not though, when you bring up a somewhat misplaced critique of an episode so well controlled and clear of purpose?

Because I was never maligning the show in such a broad sense (some of the responses suggested I was attacking its visual and narrative strengths in toto). I was talking about the representation of a city in a post where I also dutifully praised the show (lest I be tar and feathered for dissent). My claims were very tentative. I was wondering about my admittedly vague memories of Scott's film and that got me thinking about Fuller et al's engagement with Florence and I was basically inviting people to discuss the differences and offer their own insights, maybe point me toward something interesting about the episode's mobilization of the city that I might have missed? This is what I expected, at least, although maybe I could have been clearer. It wasn't meant as harsh or definitive criticism. I was just trying to broach the topic and, really, one of my main points there was, "is Scott's film as nice, in this respect, as I recall?" It just came to mind and I decided to share my thoughts, but perhaps too hastily (quick, someone else redundantly remind me that I ought to have waited for a few more episodes before bringing this up, despite the fact that this point has been made already and I've admitted as much).

This isn't the show for pornographic establishing shots of exotic locales.

Yes. All the more reason for this show's engagement with the city to prove interesting and characteristically expressionistic. This is why it isn't "silly" to imagine that Hannibal would distinctly inflect its representation of Florence (given the unique arrows in its formal quiver) and supersede Scott's take. Hannibal could definitely leverage the location shooting so as to yield something like sui generis aesthetic/narrative rewards (i.e., exploit the space to intimate intense psychic drama). This is also why my post was not a thinly veiled attempt to shame a beloved show for its budgetary limitations, even though that erroneous charge seems to have been put against me. That's never been my point.

Also, it's so weird how your statement suggests two methods: the purposively stylized, oneiric Hannibal route or meaningless "pornographic" (ugh) depictions of urban spaces (do you really think the latter is what I was asking for? Why? Because I used the word "splendour"?). Such a reductive binary. FYI: cities can be visually presented in varied ways that go beyond Hannibal's particular aesthetic proclivities and whatever pretty postcard or void of utter meaninglessness you thought I had in mind (this mischaracterization of my perspective is insulting nonsense, by the way). Man, this point is obnoxious. Yeah, you totally won the fictitious argument you just invented in your head wherein you cast me as a person who is arguing for "purposeless" urban representation. Also: establishing a credible or attractive sense of place isn't purposeless, or thoughtless, or inherently worthy of stigma.

That said, maybe at least wait a few more episodes before comparing the show unfavorably to a larger budget production with different aims?

Maybe don't ignorantly suggest that I'm arguing for a strict equivalence between Scott's approach and Fuller's take (because, yeah, something derivative would be so cool -- that's totally my point) as some weak way of buttressing your condescending bull****? Let's be clear. I'm specifically talking about distinction, which is something this show has previously achieved despite its budgetary limitations (and that is impressive and worthy of ample praise).

It was an extemporaneous, thinking aloud kind of post. Sorry to take up a few moments of your life with it. I don't have an agenda here, though. I like this show. The tone of your post is really obnoxious and unduly condescending, by the way, and this has clearly informed the tone of my own reply. Out of curiosity, were you chomping at the bit to do something like this since I replied to TOWK's post wherein he defended Fuller's spoiler-heavy interview responses? Just curious. Your post smacks of extant message board contempt. If you were desperate to talk down to me, then I hope you got it out of your system.
 
I hope I'm not alone in thinking that was a weird ass episode?

Fantastic shots throughout, really beautifully shot, but the episode felt all over the place. No indication of whether some scenes were flashbacks until like a couple of minutes into the actual scene.

Really felt tonally different to anything we've had so far in seasons 1 or 2...
 

Siegcram

Member
Agreed. Who's the camera/photography director of the series and why hasn't he done any big budget work in Hollywood? Episode 1 was shot gorgeously!
I looked him up on imdb after the episode and funnily enough the cinematographer hasn't done much besides Hannibal and comedies like Community, Happy Endings and Arrested Development. And Tool:Salival, which earned him even more respect from me.

The director Vincenzo Natali did Cube and Ginger Snaps, so he earned his horror cred already.
 
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