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Hannibal S3 |OT| Man Destroys God. Hannibal Eats Man. Hannibal Inherits The Earth.

Can anyone explain why they used a CGI Will in that bloody moonlight hallucination scene? I laughed out loud at how bad he looked.

Other than that, incredible episode.
 

Grizzlyjin

Supersonic, idiotic, disconnecting, not respecting, who would really ever wanna go and top that
Yeah, that finger wagging line had me rolling. Up there with Mason's "spitters are quitters."

I've always enjoyed the interactions between Will and Freddie, so I was really glad we got a bit more of it here.
 

BBboy20

Member
Can anyone explain why they used a CGI Will in that bloody moonlight hallucination scene? I laughed out loud at how bad he looked.

Other than that, incredible episode.
They wanted Armitage to do another shot in the cold for a future episode (this) and he told them to use a stand-in instead.
 
Ha yes. I like Manhunter but Petersen was so awful.

To be fair, how much of that is the text? I swear, I remember there being a "YOU HAD TO DO X, YOU SON OF A BITCH" in the 2002 Red Dragon, too. Maybe I'm misremembering, but I rolled my eyes at a few points re: Will Graham talking to himself.
 

Window

Member
To be fair, how much of that is the text? I swear, I remember there being a "YOU HAD TO DO X, YOU SON OF A BITCH" in the 2002 Red Dragon, too. Maybe I'm misremembering, but I rolled my eyes at a few points re: Will Graham talking to himself.

Sure but Petersen's delivery didn't help.
 

jonezer4

Member
To be fair, how much of that is the text? I swear, I remember there being a "YOU HAD TO DO X, YOU SON OF A BITCH" in the 2002 Red Dragon, too. Maybe I'm misremembering, but I rolled my eyes at a few points re: Will Graham talking to himself.

I think it should be clear by now that Will Graham was never that great of a character (even in the novel), and that didn't change until the TV show.
 

water_wendi

Water is not wet!
I think it should be clear by now that Will Graham was never that great of a character (even in the novel), and that didn't change until the TV show.
i wonder what Harris thinks of the show now lol Last i know of was during S1 and he said that he loved it,
 

bone_and_sinew

breaking down barriers in gratuitous nudity
Just saw the season 2 finale.

mj7.jpg


Everyone got played like a damn fiddle. This was the fucking Red Wedding all over again. God damn it.

I'm going to marathon as much of season 3 as I can tonight. The show is so great but it's really hard to marathon because of how intensely dark it is. At any rate I'll definitely be caught up by the time this week's episode airs.
 
Welp, finally saw it. Pretty good episode, though that scene with Hobbes was pretty fuckin' gross n' brutal. Like, wtf. That was right up there with the worst things on the show. Maybe even worse since it was Abigail that did it :x Goddamn. Fuckin' Hannibal and his "unconventional" therapy. No. Shit.

I gotta say, I really... really. Really miss old Alana. I mean, new Alana is badass and her fam sounds hella cool and she's got love & money, but she's an entirely different character now. I'm sure it was exactly his intention, but Hannibal must feel some pride in seeing himself in her actions, even though he's the target of them. I'm super worried for her, too :\

I'm glad to see Freddie again if only for the reason that she brings out the fire in Will. And I dunno why, but I loved the shots we saw of Will facing us (away from Freddie) as he talked to her, because her silhouette + his delivery were perfect.

The whole episode was enlightening on so many levels. Curious to see where we end up when everything is over.
 

TheOddOne

Member
- Variety: Amazon Execs Talk Woody Allen, ‘Top Gear’ Trio and Why They Didn’t Save ‘Hannibal’.
Execs were also asked about whether they considered picking up “Hannibal” after the series was axed by NBC. Price said that generally speaking, they preferred to devote their resources to developing “a fantastic new signature show” rather than extending the life of an existing series. “Usually if you have an opportunity to pick up a show (from another outlet) it’s going to be a marginally solid show,” Price said, although he emphasized that he was not referring to “Hannibal” specifically but the factors that are considered when an established show becomes available for new episodes. “We are not in the solid-outcome business,” he added.

Wandell acknowledged that a consideration in the case of “Hannibal” was the fact that series creator/exec producer Bryan Fuller has committed to the Starz drama “American Gods,” which probably meant he would not be able to focus on new “Hannibal” segs for as much as a year.
 

Monocle

Member
Fuller really fucked the pooch.

I would be flabbergasted if any of Amazon's "fantastic new signature shows" approached the quality of Hannibal. Hell, Hannibal would qualify as a fantastic new signature show for most audiences, since barely anyone has been watching.
 

Ryan_MSF

Member
Every week that goes by i fall in love with the show all over again, and then im reminded we're counting down to the last episode again and the teacup shatters ):
 

Window

Member
I'll take angry Petersen Graham over depressed Dancy Graham any day of the week.

I don't think Petersen did an angry interpretation of the character justice either. It came across as comical instead. Best thing about Manhunter for me were Mann's style and Tom Noonan.
 

AoM

Member
I don't think Petersen did an angry interpretation of the character justice either. It came across as comical instead. Best thing about Manhunter for me were Mann's style and Tom Noonan.

The only line delivery I would say is slightly off is the end of the tree scene. But how is the first Freddy scene or the diner scene remotely comical? As I've said before, what Fuller has done to the character isn't Dancy's fault, but Manhunter still has closest adaption of Graham. The Molly/Will scenes so far this season have been tough to get through.
 

Window

Member
The only line delivery I would say is slightly off is the end of the tree scene. But how is the first Freddy scene or the diner scene remotely comical? As I've said before, what Fuller has done to the character isn't Dancy's fault, but Manhunter still has closest adaption of Graham. The Molly/Will scenes so far this season have been tough to get through.

I wasn't laughing hysterically throughout the film or anything no but there were many moments with Will which completely took me out of the film. If Manhunter is the closest adaptation of Will Graham from the book then perhaps I guess I wouldn't like the book Graham either. I think the Molly/Will scenes were weak in Manhunter as well. On the other hand I thought Dollarhyde and his relationship with Reba was handled very effectively. How good is the book about the Will/Molly relationship? Also, how was Edward Norton in Red Dragon btw?
 

AoM

Member
I wasn't laughing hysterically throughout the film or anything no but there were many moments with Will which completely took me out of the film. If Manhunter is the closest adaptation of Will Graham from the book then perhaps I guess I wouldn't like the book Graham either. I think the Molly/Will scenes were weak in Manhunter as well. On the other hand I thought Dollarhyde and his relationship with Reba was handled very effectively. How good is the book about the Will/Molly relationship? Also, how was Edward Norton in Red Dragon btw?

I just don't see any chemistry between Dancy and this actress. Maybe it's due to all that Fuller has put this character through, but I don't feel it. Which is why including lines from the novel (the balls conversation, which was slightly changed) doesn't work if the actors themselves don't click.Their relationship in the novel is great. Manhunter did it better than the Norton version, but both mess with the original ending. As with Fiennes as Dolarhyde, I just see Norton as Norton. He misses the broken, darker side of the character, which I think Fuller has done too much of with his adaption. Also, for me at least, it's almost impossible to take Hopkins seriously given his age.
 
It's over, guys.

Hey, maybe a break will be good. Give Fuller some time to weasel the SotL license from MGM, put some years on the characters--really sell the break/time hop.

Salt-n-pepper Mads wouldn't be so bad.
 

Veelk

Banned
I personally haven't seen Manhunter, but Wills relationship with his wife is only artificially significant in it's usage. Narratively, she functions as emotional vulnerability to the Will character so that there is an pathos element to his trying to save her vs saving a random person. When a character's existence is designed solely around what happens to another, they come across more as a device than a real character in and of themselves. As such, any chemistry the actresses might have with the actors comes off as lip service. The wife herself isn't important beyond the fact that that she's important to Will. It seems insignificant to squabble over her 'chemistry' when her sole purpose is to be threatened by Dolarhyde later on.
 
I think the chemistry is fine (they've worked on-stage together before and I think it shows), but the extent of their relationship so far has been "I might be different after this" "I'll be here for you" and that's it.

It's better than making her purely a victim device (which, as was mentioned, is really all she is, unfortunately), but not that far off from it.
 
I personally haven't seen Manhunter, but Wills relationship with his wife is only artificially significant in it's usage. Narratively, she functions as emotional vulnerability to the Will character so that there is an pathos element to his trying to save her vs saving a random person. When a character's existence is designed solely around what happens to another, they come across more as a device than a real character in and of themselves. As such, any chemistry the actresses might have with the actors comes off as lip service. The wife herself isn't important beyond the fact that that she's important to Will. It seems insignificant to squabble over her 'chemistry' when her sole purpose is to be threatened by Dolarhyde later on.

I haven't caught up yet, but I ill say that we still want to believe that she could be his wife. That makes the threats that much more impactful.
 

jonezer4

Member
The only line delivery I would say is slightly off is the end of the tree scene. But how is the first Freddy scene or the diner scene remotely comical? As I've said before, what Fuller has done to the character isn't Dancy's fault, but Manhunter still has closest adaption of Graham. The Molly/Will scenes so far this season have been tough to get through.

Couldn't disagree more. In fact, the phone conversation they had in the latest episode, I distinctly remember hating in the novel, and was amazed at well the actors brought it to life in a way that felt real and nature. They conveyed a genuine relationship more than any Molly/Will scene prior. Somehow in that chat about dog balls, they got across the deeper meaning of the scene that this is a very real, comfortable, loving family. I think it works better on the screen, when actors can give it subtext and a charge that didn't come across as clearly in Harris's text.

And I'll take Fuller's nuanced, flawed, neurotic Graham any day over the 80's tough-guy archetype that was the original. I never actually got the feeling from that Graham that solving these murders really messed with his mind. He said it, and he refused to do stuff for a while, whatever, but once he was working the cases, aside from some superficial hesitation, I didn't actually feel the character was that impacted by what he was forced to do. I feel it with Fuller's Graham. The character actually makes sense for the first time and doesn't feel like a character that is hesitant for the sole purpose of adding a little specious, unearned conflict with Jack Crawford.
 

AoM

Member
Couldn't disagree more. In fact, the phone conversation they had in the latest episode, I distinctly remember hating in the novel, and was amazed at well the actors brought it to life in a way that felt real and nature. They conveyed a genuine relationship more than any Molly/Will scene prior. Somehow in that chat about dog balls, they got across the deeper meaning of the scene that this is a very real, comfortable, loving family. I think it works better on the screen, when actors can give it subtext and a charge that didn't come across as clearly in Harris's text.

And I'll take Fuller's nuanced, flawed, neurotic Graham any day over the 80's tough-guy archetype that was the original. I never actually got the feeling from that Graham that solving these murders really messed with his mind. He said it, and he refused to do stuff for a while, whatever, but once he was working the cases, aside from some superficial hesitation, I didn't actually feel the character was that impacted by what he was forced to do. I feel it with Fuller's Graham. The character actually makes sense for the first time and doesn't feel like a character that is hesitant for the sole purpose of adding a little specious, unearned conflict with Jack Crawford.

Just curious if you could post excerpts (spoiler tagged, I guess) that show this. Not that I disagree, but wondering what parts stuck out. And of course Graham in the novel isn't going to be as flawed or neurotic as this one. His relationship with Lecter is nowhere near as extensive as the one here. I just find this exaggeration of damaged and nuanced to be a little too much, which is causing me to not believe his current relationship.
 

jonezer4

Member
Just curious if you could post excerpts (spoiler tagged, I guess) that show this. Not that I disagree, but wondering what parts stuck out. And of course Graham in the novel isn't going to be as flawed or neurotic as this one. His relationship with Lecter is nowhere near as extensive as the one here. I just find this exaggeration of damaged and nuanced to be a little too much, which is causing me to not believe his current relationship.

It wouldn't be something I could sum up with excerpts unfortunately. Just the general "feel" of the character I interpreted from the novel (and movies). He simply never seemed that emotionally impacted by his involvement in the investigations, he never really seemed to psychologically suffer as a result of his gift/curse. There was always a disparity between the way he talked about how difficult his all encompassing empathy was and how he actually acted. It always felt incongruent to me in some nebulous way I never consciously put my finger on until Dancy's Graham. It was like a light bulb after seeing three different iterations of the character... "Oh, he really is fucked up by this so called gift. He's not just saying it."

I ironically thought he was being whinier before, because the pain and torture wasn't as obvious. So when he actually debated going out to save a family, it was like, "Get over it." But with Dancy's, I know this guy's legitimately hurting and damaged and this case could damn well break him. It becomes a much greater dilemma and I respect the character more for taking it on. He actually seems braver and like less of a coward than the more overtly courageous previous versions of the character, if that makes any sense.

And although his fleshed out relationship with Hannibal certainly adds some weight to this, I think it would be there regardless just from the way Will is portrayed in his investigations even from the pilot episode. Putting Will into the murderers' shoes and actually having him graphically visualize himself killing these people is extremely effective and imparts an unnerving feeling. I don't recall if the novels did that, I know the films didn't.

EDIT: Yeah, I think that last paragraph is a big part of it. I just skimmed the novel looking for exerpts. Here is a few lines from Will's investigation of the Leeds: "First there was the entry. (Will) thought about that... The madman slipped the hook on the outside screen door... He put out his tongue and licked the cup... He is inside. He does not care that he leaves AB saliva on the glass..."

Harris/Will refer to the killer as "he" and "the madman" whereas Will in the show refers to the killer (and visualizes him) as "I". I think that's major, and I think that denotes extreme empathy much more than the novels. "The madman" is such a pejorative, distant, de-humanizing way to approach the killer in these investigations. For Dancy, there is no such reprieve. For Dancy the madman is "me". That would fuck up anyone to the point where I don't think you could say Dancy is overacting or too neurotic or whiny, etc. and it drives home just how horrible his gift is.
 

Goodstyle

Member
I hope they do a Sherlock system where the show would have 3 hour and a half episodes as seasons. I really want to see how Fuller tackles the Silence of the Lambs.
 

beat

Member
I hope they do a Sherlock system where the show would have 3 hour and a half episodes as seasons. I really want to see how Fuller tackles the Silence of the Lambs.

I wonder if potential show saviors weren't also put off by the show still not lining up the rights for Silence of the Lambs. I know the show's worst case scenario to not getting the rights was just to basically do Schmilence of the Schmlambs with like, Miriam Lass or something, but I imagine it would still have been legally dicey.
 

AoM

Member
It wouldn't be something I could sum up with excerpts unfortunately. Just the general "feel" of the character I interpreted from the novel (and movies). He simply never seemed that emotionally impacted by his involvement in the investigations, he never really seemed to psychologically suffer as a result of his gift/curse. There was always a disparity between the way he talked about how difficult his all encompassing empathy was and how he actually acted. It always felt incongruent to me in some nebulous way I never consciously put my finger on until Dancy's Graham. It was like a light bulb after seeing three different iterations of the character... "Oh, he really is fucked up by this so called gift. He's not just saying it."

I ironically thought he was being whinier before, because the pain and torture wasn't as obvious. So when he actually debated going out to save a family, it was like, "Get over it." But with Dancy's, I know this guy's legitimately hurting and damaged and this case could damn well break him. It becomes a much greater dilemma and I respect the character more for taking it on. He actually seems braver and like less of a coward than the more overtly courageous previous versions of the character, if that makes any sense.

"No. You know--having to look. It's always bad, but you get so you can function
anyway, as long as they're dead. The hospital, interviews, that's worse. You have to
shake it off and keep on thinking. I don't believe I could do it now. I could make
myself look, but I'd shut down the thinking."

I get pain and torture from this. I guess with Dancy's Graham, it's just like, he's been through all this, and now we're doing the Red Dragon arc? That's the obvious discrepancy, and why it's hard to compare this version to any of the others.

And although his fleshed out relationship with Hannibal certainly adds some weight to this, I think it would be there regardless just from the way Will is portrayed in his investigations even from the pilot episode. Putting Will into the murderers' shoes and actually having him graphically visualize himself killing these people is extremely effective and imparts an unnerving feeling. I don't recall if the novels did that, I know the films didn't.

The book did have lines like:

Mrs. Leeds was lovely, wasn't she? You turned on the light after you cut his throat
so Mrs. Leeds could watch him flop, didn't you? It was maddening to have to wear
gloves when you touched her, wasn't it?

which I think are just as effective (and creepy). Manhunter did have a 'this is my design' moment. It was near the end of the film. Also, I found a screenplay online, and it looks like a ton of stuff was cut out.

EDIT: Yeah, I think that last paragraph is a big part of it. I just skimmed the novel looking for exerpts. Here is a few lines from Will's investigation of the Leeds: "First there was the entry. (Will) thought about that... The madman slipped the hook on the outside screen door... He put out his tongue and licked the cup... He is inside. He does not care that he leaves AB saliva on the glass..."

Harris/Will refer to the killer as "he" and "the madman" whereas Will in the show refers to the killer (and visualizes him) as "I". I think that's major, and I think that denotes extreme empathy much more than the novels. "The madman" is such a pejorative, distant, de-humanizing way to approach the killer in these investigations. For Dancy, there is no such reprieve. For Dancy the madman is "me". That would fuck up anyone to the point where I don't think you could say Dancy is overacting or too neurotic or whiny, etc. and it drives home just how horrible his gift is.

Oh, I'm not saying Dancy is overacting. I just wish Fuller hadn't made the character go through as much as he has. But I guess it's necessary if you want to have three seasons worth of material.
 

TheOddOne

Member
New episode today:
Season 3: episode 10 "And the Woman Clothed in Sun"

Carvings symbolizing the Great Red Dragon are retrieved from crime scenes, casting light on Francis Dolarhyde's warped psyche. Meanwhile, both Dolarhyde and Will seek the wisdom of Hannibal Lecter.
Please spoiler tag discussions about this episode until it has aired in the US on August 8th.
 

TheOddOne

Member
Based on the title and description that is last weeks episode...unless the show airs a week early on hulu plus.
Last week's episode was:
"And the Woman Clothed with the Sun..."

The search for serial killer Francis Dolarhyde heats up as Will delves into dangerous territory. He envisions himself in Dolarhyde's psyche and contacts Hannibal Lecter for help in profiling the killer.
This week:
"And the Woman Clothed in Sun"

Carvings symbolizing the Great Red Dragon are retrieved from crime scenes, casting light on Francis Dolarhyde's warped psyche. Meanwhile, both Dolarhyde and Will seek the wisdom of Hannibal Lecter.
I totally understand why at first glance it looks like last week's episode, because the titles are so similar.
 

jett

D-Member
Been rewatching S1 the last couple of weeks. S3 seemed low budget already with its small sets and shitty CGI and whatnot, but rewatching a Hannibal season with a real budget really drives the point home. Everything looks so much better, man.
 

Begaria

Member
Canadian reporting in, watching Hannibal on my usual station at the usual time.

Also, fucking love this 1v1 between the Dragon and Cannibal
 

Begaria

Member
I missed what he did with the phone there. What did he do?

Heh, "I did...technically." Nice little throw back there.
 
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