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[Killjoy-NL]

Gaf is enclave of real hardcore gamers that consume single player games and "standard" multi player games mostly, ages 30-40-50+. Most of console users are casuals that play sports games, cod and GTA while most young people are playing gaas games (Fortnite, Minecraft etc.). Even Sony fanboys here are in super minority compared to most PS5 users, most of them fall into casuals category and don't give a fuck about console wars and shit like that - they just want to play new cod or FC with their friends.

Yeah, no shit.

That's what I've been saying all this time.

 

[ReBurn]

No killer apps

Astro Bot has been the only killer app on consoles for me this generation. I've enjoyed other games, but it's the only one so far that's made me glad I bought a console so that I can play it.

I feel that way about several Switch games, but literally nothing for the XSX or PS5 so far outside of Astro Bot.

 

[Bojji]

Yeah, no shit.

That's what I've been saying all this time.

But hardcore gamers are the ones that buy single player games, including all those Sony exclusives, RPGs, etc. And they buy MANY games during consoles lifespan so they (we!) are very valuable for companies. And yet you say we are insignificant.

 

[Killjoy-NL]

But hardcore gamers are the ones that buy single player games, including all those Sony exclusives, RPGs, etc. And they buy MANY games during consoles lifespan so they (we!) are very valuable for companies. And yet you say we are insignificant.

I thought Gaf's poll showed those hardcore gamers hate those Sony games?

Yet, those games keep breaking records.

 

[Bojji]

I thought Gaf's poll showed those hardcore gamers hate those Sony games?

Yet, those games keep breaking records.

Poll didn't show that, it shows that number of those games is smaller compared to previous games.

If anything both sales and this poll shows that people are starved and want more, yet Sony does almost fucking nothing. Many studios lost years developing GaaS bullshit...

WE want more high quality games from Sony studios, like what they did in previous gens. I don't hate Sony, I just criticize their fucked up decisions and ideas and sadly they have made A LOT of them in recent years.

 

[Killjoy-NL]

Poll didn't show that, it shows that number of those games is smaller compared to previous games.

If anything both sales and this poll shows that people are starved and want more, yet Sony does almost fucking nothing. Many studios lost years developing GaaS bullshit...

Which studios lost years developing what exactly?

ND is still developing singleplayer projects.
GG is still developing a singleplayer project.
SSM is still developing a singleplayer project.
Insomniac is still developing singleplayer project.

Firewalk was gaas-only and got shutdown.
Bungie is gaas-focused.
Haven is a gaas-studio as well.

The other studios with canceled live service games never made games most hardcore PS fans were really excited about.
Except maybe BluePoint, which made remakes.

WE want more high quality games from Sony studios, like what they did in previous gens. I don't hate Sony, I just criticize they fucked up decisions and ideas and sadly they have made A LOT of them in recent years.

I'm part of the 'WE'. And it's not like I don't get the criticism, I just think people are acting irrational.

 

[Negotiator]

Ok I gotta respond to that because I disagree. Just understand this is my opinion and not an attack. I love the PS4 controller, to me it's the perfect size and the perfect triggers. The PS5 controller is the worst, it's too big for my hands. I'm not your average sized guy, I'm only 5 feet 3 inches tall, and for us short people the PS5 controller is just too big for us. Now if your someone of the 5 feet 10 inches and taller, I'm sure the PS5 controller could be great as you have bigger hands as well. But overall the PS5 is the biggest disapointment ever in Sony's history to me as I don't like the dualsense and there's been a
big stall of great games, there hasn't been many big games at all.

I wonder if Japanese people dislike DualSense too... the PS5 isn't selling that well over there.

 

[Bojji]

Which studios lost years developing what exactly?

ND is still developing singleplayer projects.
GG is still developing a singleplayer project.
SSM is still developing a singleplayer project.
Insomniac is still developing singleplayer project.

Firewalk was gaas-only and got shutdown.
Bungie is gaas-focused.
Haven is a gaas-studio as well.

The other studios with canceled live service games never made games most hardcore PS fans were really excited about.
Except maybe BluePoint, which made remakes.


I'm part of the 'WE'. And it's not like I don't get the criticism, I just think people are acting irrational.

GaaS is part of the problem. They have not released that many games in general and ND was just making remakes and remasters for almost 5 years.

Games take more time/manpower and money to develop so why not expand existing studios and buy new ones to fix the problem? They aren't that interested because without any strong competition they are selling a lot of consoles and software anyway. That's why poll results are like that.

 

[Negotiator]

GaaS is part of the problem. They have not released that many games in general and ND was just making remakes and remasters for almost 5 years.

Games take more time/manpower and money to develop so why not expand existing studios and buy new ones to fix the problem? They aren't that interested because without any strong competition they are selling a lot of consoles and software anyway. That's why poll results are like that.

Not expanding studios because "it's hard" is the equivalent of Intel sticking to 4-core CPUs for almost a decade (2006-2016), until AMD amped up the competition with Ryzen in 2017.

 

[EruditeHobo]

Poll is not about how much money Sony makes but how people see PS5 compared to previous consoles (I know some of you are masturbating to sales numbers). People are mostly talking about "exclusives", in this category PS5 looks like shit compared to older brothers.

It's not about "people". It's about a very, very niche hardcore community that in the aggregate doesn't make up a sliver of a fraction of a percent of the reason Sony are so successful right now.

Many, many modern gamers don't care one single shit about "exclusives"... and certainly not "first party exclusives". And the answer why should be very obvious, because exclusives have never mattered less to the value of the gaming ecosystem offered by a console.

 

[terrible1fi]

Ps5 has been the best generation yet imo

 

[Killjoy-NL]

GaaS is part of the problem. They have not released that many games in general and ND was just making remakes and remasters for almost 5 years.

Games take more time/manpower and money to develop so why not expand existing studios and buy new ones to fix the problem? They aren't that interested because without any strong competition they are selling a lot of consoles and software anyway. That's why poll results are like that.

Bolded is literally what they've done.

But it takes time for those teams/studios to develop their games.
And gaas is just an addition to their output, not a replacement of what they're known for.

 

[EruditeHobo]

But hardcore gamers are the ones that buy single player games, including all those Sony exclusives, RPGs, etc. And they buy MANY games during consoles lifespan so they (we!) are very valuable for companies. And yet you say we are insignificant.

So do sales matter, or do they not? Because so many "people" that you're talking about are saying things like "sales charts don't matter"... so what credibility do you think this point has, when you're talking about what "hardcore" gamers want out of products and how that translates to sales? Because, again, the trends on how Sony is doing with PS5 are pretty clear and are if anything likely to improve over the next 2 years.

700 people not liking what Sony is offering is pretty meaningless, and yet a number of these people have said in many threads over the past couple years "Sony need to/should change"... why the fuck do they need to change?

This argument as always is just incredibly poor, selective, and emotional. But that said, you're very welcome to it! No one is saying you don't hav a right to feel that way, but rather that any idea that this applies to something bigger than your personal feelings (which honestly are pretty insignificant) speaks to some level of remove... ie, the neogaf "bubble".

 

[asdasdasdbb]

why the fuck do they need to change?

Because the bulk of their growth is coming from PS+ and Third Party Live Service games. They aren't buying a PS6 and could easily drop PS for like if a Steam Box comes along that doesn't require PS+ to play MP games.

Sony is basically screwed if they continue to put their games on PC.

 

[EruditeHobo]

Because the bulk of their growth is coming from PS+ and Third Party Live Service games. They aren't buying a PS6 and could easily drop PS for like if a Steam Box comes along that doesn't require PS+ to play MP games.

Sony is basically screwed if they continue to put their games on PC.

Nah. You're probably just not aligned with what the value and convenience of a console does to it's appeal to more casual customers as opposed to the much different more hardcore/hobbyist PC-inclined market.

But I mean... we'll see, I guess? Don't think they're going anywhere for a very, very long time.

 

[onQ123]

One problem here is a certain set of people feel like only their opinion matter even though reality points to how small their group is compared to the people who doesn't share their opinion. So they are fighting extra hard to prove how much their opinion matters & attacking anyone who doesn't feel the same.



These are different times we needed 10 different games but these kids be playing the same games for 10 years, we believe it was better to have many games but these kids are getting a different experience every other day with the same games.


Just imagine trying to convince the millions of people playing Fortnite everyday on their PS5 that PS1 ,PS2 & PS3 is better than PS5 because you had KillZone 2 , Resistance Fall of Man & so on.


Also I question the logic of anyone locking in a cemented answer at 4 years in when consoles generations are lasting longer & it's taking longer to create AAA games now.

PS5 is just getting to a large enough user-base where it would make sense to make exclusives over taking advantage of both PS4 & PS5 user-base. Even Xbox is running to this large user-base PS5 is going to be flooded with games over the next few years.

People want to exclude sales from the topic but the sales has the competition bringing their games over to the PS5.

 

[HeisenbergFX4]

One problem here is a certain set of people feel like only their opinion matter even though reality points to how small their group is compared to the people who doesn't share their opinion. So they are fighting extra hard to prove how much their opinion matters & attacking anyone who doesn't feel the same.



These are different times we needed 10 different games but these kids be playing the same games for 10 years, we believe it was better to have many games but these kids are getting a different experience every other day with the same games.


Just imagine trying to convince the millions of people playing Fortnite everyday on their PS5 that PS1 ,PS2 & PS3 is better than PS5 because you had KillZone 2 , Resistance Fall of Man & so on.


Also I question the logic of anyone locking in a cemented answer at 4 years in when consoles generations are lasting longer & it's taking longer to create AAA games now.

PS5 is just getting to a large enough user-base where it would make sense to make exclusives over taking advantage of both PS4 & PS5 user-base. Even Xbox is running to this large user-base PS5 is going to be flooded with games over the next few years.

People want to exclude sales from the topic but the sales has the competition bringing their games over to the PS5.

Nope your opinion 100% matters as you go on to try and explain why others that voted here are wrong

And we circle back to sales

I guess by this logic Fortnite and COD should be winning game of the year every single year

 

[Killjoy-NL]

Nope your opinion 100% matters as you go on to try and explain why others that voted here are wrong

And we circle back to sales

I guess by this logic Fortnite and COD should be winning game of the year every single year

Aren't people showing Sony their discontent by not buying the games they don't like, thus validating the importance of sales?

 

[RafterXL]

This is only even a discussion because people make their toys their entire personality and feel attacked when the PS5 isn't glazed to death. It's also hilarious that a bunch of consumers are so enslaved by sales numbers like like they own the company.

By objective measures, not corpo slurping financial statements or butthurt feelings because someone insulted your video game equivalent of a body pillow, the PS5 has less games, less great games, less good games, both first and third party, than any other generation. And gaming is about games, full stop! You can screech about financials all you want, but as a person who plays games, and is not a complete brand dick sucker, there is zero argument that the PS5 isn't the worst generation in PS history.

 

[HeisenbergFX4]

Aren't people showing Sony their discontent by not buying the games they don't like, thus validating the importance of sales?

You guys keep wanting to bring sales into the discussion of people not being happy with Sonys first party output and how people feel here

Honestly I don't care that the 31.5% voted for other generations as having worse first party games, I am not even remotely attempting to change your vote

Why is it the small group that is hell bent on trying to change the 68.5% who voted the way they did?

You guys seem to take it personal

 

[Killjoy-NL]

You guys keep wanting to bring sales into the discussion of people not being happy with Sonys first party output and how people feel here

Honestly I don't care that the 31.5% voted for other generations as having worse first party games, I am not even remotely attempting to change your vote

Why is it the small group that is hell bent on trying to change the 68.5% who voted the way they did?

You guys seem to take it personal

I'm not trying to change anyones mind though.

What makes you think that?

 

[HeisenbergFX4]

I'm not trying to change anyones mind though.

What makes you think that?

People just keep wanting to bring sales into the equation and change the narrative of the original post of how poor the first party output has been for Sony

I guess some think them repeating but the sales is some magic bullet that is going to change people's mind that oh yeah Sonys first party hasn't been shit, look at all those people playing Fortnite

Honestly not sure why I bother as I don't care how others voted as I respect how they feel but some can't do the same

 

[adamsapple]

One problem here is a certain set of people feel like only their opinion matter even though reality points to how small their group is compared to the people who doesn't share their opinion. So they are fighting extra hard to prove how much their opinion matters & attacking anyone who doesn't feel the same.

.... like how you're doing now in the face of the poll results in this topic?

 

[RafterXL]

You guys seem to take it personal

When you make a brand your personality, any attack of said brand feels like a personal insult. I'm convinced half of this forum would cease to exist if Sony disappeared. They'd literally dematerialize into the ether because they are so intrinsically linked that they couldn't sustain sentience without THE BRAND. This place is filled with corpo zombies.

 

[onQ123]

.... like how you're doing now in the face of the poll results in this topic?

If that's how you read it sure

 

[onQ123]

Nope your opinion 100% matters as you go on to try and explain why others that voted here are wrong

And we circle back to sales

I guess by this logic Fortnite and COD should be winning game of the year every single year

Im not here to prove them wrong but the thread didn't say " in your opinion" it asked if PS5 has cemented it's self as the worst PlayStation Generation.

 

[HeisenbergFX4]

Im not here to prove them wrong but the thread didn't say " in your opinion" it asked if PS5 has cemented it's self as the worst PlayStation Generation.

Wouldn't people voting be considered expressing their opinion?

The very nature of the question makes it subjective and his post starts with the very words "In my opinion"

"In my opinion, outside of some type of a miracle in the next few years, the answer is definitely "yes". Particularly with the news of Bend's and Bluepoint's projects being canned."

 

[adamsapple]

Im not here to prove them wrong but the thread didn't say " in your opinion" it asked if PS5 has cemented it's self as the worst PlayStation Generation.

The poll and every single post here is someone's opinion.