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[slayn]

I think we're more likely seeing Egg cut from Zoo just to speed the deck up.

I actually wouldn't be too surprised at seeing Flame Imp cut too since there's enough upside 1cc minions to warrant skimping on a big downside one like Imp. Which may start pushing closer to non-Warlock Zoo variants.

hmm, I don't see it. I played with the egg in zoo a bit and it was always strong. I don't find it that slow either because since I tended to not pop it myself and instead used it as a safety net to overextend into AoE more than I would otherwise be unwilling to do. I've never been a fan of the void terror combos.

As for non-warlock zoo, that seems really difficult to find a class benefit that helps the deck more than lifetap.

 

[Ultrabum]

hmm, I don't see it. I played with the egg in zoo a bit and it was always strong. I don't find it that slow either because since I tended to not pop it myself and instead used it as a safety net to overextend into AoE more than I would otherwise be unwilling to do. I've never been a fan of the void terror combos.

As for non-warlock zoo, that seems really difficult to find a class benefit that helps the deck more than lifetap.

The egg is super strong in zoo. It's anti aoe. It's always there because your opponent won't break it, so you always have something to get value from buff cards. Shit makes the zoo powerful.

 

[scy]

IDK, I don't play zoo so I maybe wrong but I think egg is a perfect card for that deck. With the amount of damage buff that deck runs its a perfect target to use as a sacrifice, it a perfect target to taunt AND its an anti AOE.

Youre never more than 1 or 2 turns away from activating it.

hmm, I don't see it. I played with the egg in zoo a bit and it was always strong. I don't find it that slow either because since I tended to not pop it myself and instead used it as a safety net to overextend into AoE more than I would otherwise be unwilling to do. I've never been a fan of the void terror combos.

I think Egg is great for the deck and all that. Just saying that between the two, Juggler's ability to ping direct damage is highly relevant and makes the deck faster overall. Since it's not really a rush-y deck, it's debatable if that speed is all that relevant but I'm not sure cutting Juggler is correct. Or Egg, for that matter.

I'd say Juggler is a bit more consistent but since there's ~33% of the deck capable of activating the Egg, it's probably not even relevant :x

As for non-warlock zoo, that seems really difficult to find a class benefit that helps the deck more than lifetap.

Probably. Though, Lifetap is more what keeps Zoo from losing games rather than what makes it win games. Just saying that we're pushing more and more towards a deck that is neutrals only + a Hero Power so there's room for other classes to do a better job at the core aspect of the deck. We're not there yet but it's getting plausible.

 

[TomServo]

I've played zoo to ranks 8, 6, and 5 in the past three seasons. Playing as little as I do, I stop at rank 5 and move to casual.

I dropped flame imp to slot in eggs. The imp is way too susceptible to removal on the same turn, and late in the game the three damage it inflicts can make it a dead card. I also dropped shield bearer and put in power overwhelming, which sped the deck back up.

I haven't missed either dropped card, and have triggered some concedes with a power overwhelming / egg into an early game minion that my opponent really extended themselves to get on the board.

Edit: As for life tap, I really think it's overblown as a benefit for zoo. If I'm tapping before turn 5 it means I'm in trouble, and beyond turn 7 I'm already in trouble if I don't have significant board presence. There's really just a two or three turn sweet spot when I can drop a low cost minion, tap, and then hopefully drop a second low cost minion drawn from the tap.

 

[johnsmith]

Flame imp is one of the best cards in the game. If they go unanswered they're the card that allows for turn 5 zoo wins. Dropping it is a mistake.

 

[J0dy77]

Man does Zoo need a nerf something awful. I know we still have more Naxx cards coming but I just don't see how you can slow down this aggro train. I've been of the mindset, "Can't beat em, join em of late" and just rolling over people. The worst part of it all is that you top deck so much to win late game it can only be maddening for the other player. Zero cards in hand, here comes a no cost soulfire or doomguard. Throw in the additional naxx synergies with the nerubian egg and it has gotten worse.

The biggest problems I see are the Doomguard and soulfire, if you give them a slight nerf it would really go a long way. A( 5-7) 5 drop with often no penalty since Zoo is often playing with an empty hand an top decking as much as possible.

The Warlock hero power is so strong as well but I don't think they can change that without really changing the warlock class.

Here's to hoping the rest of Naxx brings some needed change.

 

[TomServo]

I agree that flame imp demands an early answer, the problem for me was that my opponent always seemed to have an answer (backstab, wrath, lightning bolt, etc). More often than not it was just me trading one mana + three damage for two mana.

Your mileage may vary.

 

[Zemm]

Here's to hoping the rest of Naxx brings some needed change.

Haha, people were saying the new cards (the ones released so far) would slow down Zoo but if anything it's the opposite. I fully expect the new cards to get use and make Zoo even stronger.

 

[scy]

Edit: As for life tap, I really think it's overblown as a benefit for zoo. If I'm tapping before turn 5 it means I'm in trouble, and beyond turn 7 I'm already in trouble if I don't have significant board presence. There's really just a two or three turn sweet spot when I can drop a low cost minion, tap, and then hopefully drop a second low cost minion drawn from the tap.

Yeah. It's great in Zoo because it helps keep you from losing a game late but it's really bad every turn until then. Really, every single Hero Power is pretty bad for a Zoo style deck on the early turns so Lifetap stands out as being the best late-game Hero Power.

 

[TomServo]

Also related to zoo's discard mechanic, I don't think people who haven't played a lot of zoo understand that trying to avoid or even minimize it forces sub-optimal play. That's the real penalty. The actual discard is severe punishment for people who don't try to play around it.


I really think zoo gets hate because of how many zoo players there are. That there are so many is a reflection that it's a top level deck that can be had at low cost. After months of play, I've got enough cards to play other decks I enjoy more, but starting out zoo was all I had available.

 

[Papercuts]

Just had a game as Priest where I did mind vision, got a snipe trap, then waited until they played a secret to drop my egg which got immediately broke open. I <3 that card.

 

[Zemm]

Zoo is so fucking easy to beat as a hunter, the only time I've lost is when I've Mulliganed all 4+ drops then got 2x Highmanes as a replacement.

This is crazy 6/6 of games tonight have been vs zoo, I've climbed 3 ranks haha.

edit: 7/7!

 

[ZealousD]

Damn. Amaz just opened 200 packs on stream. 11 legendaries. Even had a double legendary pack with Leeroy and Cenarius.

 

[mysteriousmage09]

Damn. Amaz just opened 200 packs on stream. 11 legendaries. Even had a double legendary pack with Leeroy and Cenarius.

Well it's $250 worth of cards, or 20K gold, i'd fucking hope he got a fuck ton of good cards.

That's 1,000 cards.

 

[partyphone]

huh. 11 is exactly the number you'd expect.

 

[CoolOff]

Mirror match:

Me turn 1: Webspinner
Him turn 1: Coin secret.
Me turn 2: Attack with Spinner, nothing, assuming Snipe.
Him turn 2: Buzzard.
Me turn 3: Bow on Buzzard. Hello Snake Trap.

...fuck...

 

[johnsmith]

Secret with a defenseless buzzard is always snake trap. Come on man.

 

[RumblingRosco]

Secret with a defenseless buzzard is always snake trap. Come on man.

Yeah, oldest trick in the Hunter book.

 

[CoolOff]

Yeah, I had just not seen Snake Trap in weeks. But, how the hell do you play around it without spells in your hand? You can't really leave a Buzzard alive can you?

 

[FormallyFamicom]

Secret with a defenseless buzzard is always snake trap. Come on man.

I got baited into a freeze trap thinking this. It is never safe!

 

[Borgnine]

...fuck...

I did this with 2 buzzards out, so don't feel too bad.

Also last week I put down 2 Northshire Clerics against a priest. As I watched my entire deck vaporize I remembered GAF specifically telling that day never go full Northshire Cleric.

 

[partyphone]

sometimes you just have to let them draw. but at least make the most of it. I try to pop the trapbwhen I have buzzard unleash.

 

[Kenaras]

Yeah, I had just not seen Snake Trap in weeks. But, how the hell do you play around it without spells in your hand? You can't really leave a Buzzard alive can you?

You basically just accept your loss and move on.

The worst was a Paladin draft where I had zero removal spells in my deck. I knew it was a Snake Trap, but there was nothing I could do about it.

 

[Tacitus_]

Hearthstone: Rapid Fire Questions - Zoo Warlock by Trump

Some things to take away:
- stop QQing about Zoo
- Deathlord, Zombie Chow and the copying Ooze will be great for zoo.

 

[inky]

The copying ooze will be a nightmare on Paladin. BoK + Bubble x2... UGH. It hasn't happened and I already hate it.

 

[jkanownik]

Golden Ysera is so pretty. Crappy arena run redeemed.

 

[Cipherr]

Hearthstone: Rapid Fire Questions - Zoo Warlock by Trump

Some things to take away:
- stop QQing about Zoo
- Deathlord, Zombie Chow and the copying Ooze will be great for zoo.

No. And I'm going to continue to enjoy running a heavy Zoo counter deck and still winning 60%-70% of my games because so many people play that shitty fucking deck. This new "Respect Zoo gaiz" is just nonsense from people who take the lame and easy way out and want to justify playing the game in the most reprehensible way.

Nothing like winning 7 games in mere minutes because you make the zoo players concede by turn 6 as they realize they have no way to get back into the game.

 

[Tacitus_]

No. And I'm going to continue to enjoy running a heavy Zoo counter deck and still winning 60%-70% of my games because so many people play that shitty fucking deck. This new "Respect Zoo gaiz" is just nonsense from people who take the lame and easy way out and want to justify playing the game in the most reprehensible way.

Nothing like winning 7 games in mere minutes because you make the zoo players concede by turn 6 as they realize they have no way to get back into the game.

Why are you complaining with that winrate?

 

[FStop7]

Botting is getting worse.

Yesterday I watched several streamers get matched against bots multiple times.

Also heard some stories about well known streamers who are botting and/or win trading off stream in order to rank up more quickly.

 

[Zemm]

No. And I'm going to continue to enjoy running a heavy Zoo counter deck and still winning 60%-70% of my games because so many people play that shitty fucking deck. This new "Respect Zoo gaiz" is just nonsense from people who take the lame and easy way out and want to justify playing the game in the most reprehensible way.

Nothing like winning 7 games in mere minutes because you make the zoo players concede by turn 6 as they realize they have no way to get back into the game.

There is zero, zero skill to playing a zoo lock, it's for complete brain dead players looking for easy wins and the ladder is infested with these people. The game is definitely worse off with these decks and shitty players.

Why are you complaining with that winrate?

Probably because outside of miracle rogues it's the shittest, most boring match in the entire game.

 

[Tacitus_]

There is zero, zero skill to playing a zoo lock, it's for complete brain dead players looking for easy wins and the ladder is infested with these people. The game is definitely worse off with these decks and players.



Probably because outside of miracle rogues it's the shittest, most boring match in the entire game.

Right, this is why everyone who plays zoo is at legend, right? Come on now.

E: And the most boring match is Freeze mage. Fuck that solitaire bullshit.

 

[scy]

The anti-Zoo hostility is at an all-time high.

 

[partyphone]

uh. there isn't zero skill to playing zoo. board positioning is important and knowing when to trade is important.

the reason you see so much of it is because it's a cheap deck to make. don't be mad because your favorite deck to play loses to zoo. laddering isn't about having a favorite deck. it's about winning.

 

[ShinNL]

My cheese > your cheese.

 

[Zemm]

uh. there isn't zero skill to playing zoo. board positioning is important and knowing when to trade is important.

the reason you see so much of it is because it's a cheap deck to make. don't be mad because your favorite deck to play loses to zoo. laddering isn't about having a favorite deck. it's about winning.

I have a favourable win-rate against zoo because everyone is playing it so you may as well play a deck that soft counters it. That doesn't mean you can't complain about it. Board positioning and trading is the absolute basics of the game, no doubt there are braindead people playing the game that can't even do that, you also have to wonder how they tie their shoes in the morning. Good players might play the deck, but there's no way I could tell a good player from playing them, only a retarded one that fucks it up.

 

[johnsmith]

I got to legend with zoo. If zoo didn't take skill everybody should be able to get to legend. Yet they don't.

 

[scy]

Board positioning and trading is the absolute basics of the game

As concepts they're basics but the importance of it is a lot more relevant against better decks and players. People don't mean "learn to trade minions" as just knowing to trade instead of hitting the face. It's more of how to stagger minions properly to best use DWA to not waste damage when you need to deal X damage two turns later, why certain damage values are more relevant vs certain decks (or with certain draws), and so-on.

Good players might play the deck, but there's no way I could tell a good player from playing them, only a retarded one that fucks it up.

By all accounts in this thread, nobody knows how to tell what a good player is with any deck. Every deck has some bullshit behind it that makes it take no skill.

Honestly, the easiest deck I've played was Control Warrior. Generally speaking, I find most Control decks easier to play since they're fairly forgiving outside of the mirror.

 

[Zemm]

I got to legend with zoo. If zoo didn't take skill everybody should be able to get to legend. Yet they don't.

If you don't play a lot you won't get legend which instantly rules a lot of people out, most people are dumb as hell which rules a lot more out. If you can't get to legend with Zoo then I doubt you'll get to legend with another class outside Druid and if you get to legend with another class you definitely can with zoo as well. I'd be fine with zoo if I wasn't facing it literally 70-75 percent of the time. It's a nice feeling when priest or warrior shows up.

 

[partyphone]

 

[Professor Lich]

I think it'd be better to be constructive than all this hostility.

I just really want the meta or whatever to change.

 

[CoolOff]

Man, my mid-range Hunter is doing way better against Zoo than Crusher Shaman ever did, and it's way more fun because I feel like I'm beating them instead of just walling up and hoping for the best. Take that Zoo-cancers.

I mean, UTH-nerf did hit it a bit, but I think Webspinner has made up for it in parts.

 

[Ultrabum]

Eh, the deck idea is fine. They just need to nerf soulfire and doomguard by like 1 or 2 stats just like with the old unleash. Balance patches exist for a reason.

 

[Zemm]

Could you imagine if there was text chat in the game?

 

[Strider]

Could you imagine if there was text chat in the game?

The community would get an even worse reputation than the Dota/LoL crowd. I'm sure of it.

 

[Haly]

It would sound exactly like this thread?

 

[scy]

It would sound exactly like this thread?

That's how I imagine it.

 

[Professor Lich]

I would hope it would sound like Barrens or Traders chat! It would be way more entertaining.

 

[Zemm]

The game would be 100 percent zoo because everyone else would be banned.

 

[Xelis]

I did this with 2 buzzards out, so don't feel too bad.

Also last week I put down 2 Northshire Clerics against a priest. As I watched my entire deck vaporize I remembered GAF specifically telling that day never go full Northshire Cleric.

This is a good reason to never go full Northshire.

(I had no way to win so I sudoku'd in style.)

 

[Willy Wanka]

I just got three legendaries from a 400 gold spend on card packs. Al'Akir, Millhouse Manastorm and Old Murk-Eye for getting a murloc Warleader and completing the murloc set. I hadn't bought any more packs since I got Golden King Krush a few days ago either so that is four legendaries for 500 gold. I think it's time to retire from Hearthstone because my luck will never get any better than that.