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Hearthstone |OT| Why tap cards when you can roll need [Naxx final wing out now]
- Thread starter Minsc
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Most people don't complain because zoo is overpowered (I don't think it is). Most of the complaints are because it requires zero brains to play and his highly effective. Also because ladder is infested with the deck, also because it's fucking shit to play against, win or lose. The game would be better off if rogues and warlocks were just completely overhauled because both are broken right now. The only class that needs a nerf is Druid.
EscapingJail
Member
Yeah watching now, pretty crazy.
EnVy_CaLiBeR
Member
The Warlock hero power is what makes Zoo so effective. For two mana, you lose two health but you get to draw a card in a game where drawing is so pivotal. It needs cost 3-4 health, IMO. Makes the player more cautious about tapping away.
As far as the Rogue, if Blizzard find a way to nerf Gadgetzan, then they will effectively nerf the Miracle Rogue deck. The fact that you can cycle your entire deck with essentially one card is what makes the Miracle Rogue deck seem so broken.
I don't even get annoyed with Miracle Rogue decks anymore, though. It actually does take some setting up and some skill to play.
Really, many of the complaints are just short-term sort of things. They'll shift to whatever is the new thing and complain about that and it'll repeat forever.
I don't think any comparison really works, honestly. Like, the common one is Necropotence and that's not even close to the same since you can refill or draw X-1 as needed rather than be limited per turn. I just think of it as a free Sign in Blood / Night's Whisper / etc.
Control archetypes really need some good curve fixing options too; would at least help their consistency which may be enough to deal with Zoo with certain decks. The problem is these same sort of things also work for Zoo and you can't realistically just give every class but Warlock class specific cards for this :| Many Anti-Zoo options are just good in Zoo.
The Hero Power costing more is weird, though. Like, it benefits Handlock by shaving a turn or two off for Molten Giants coming online. Personally, I don't even think the Hero Power is the right target for Zoo. Zoo works so well because of how Hearthstone is structured: Being ahead on board gives you control so you want the initiative more often than not. The card draw part of Warlock just makes them the best class for the deck since it gives them the best way to use excess mana later. I think the game just needs some form of neutral that is good vs Zoo's style but isn't good in Zoo. Probably more things like Unstable Ghoul, Wild Pyro, etc. that are symmetrical in their damage as well as ways to punish 2-3 minions on board early (and/or benefit from your opponent playing 2-3 cards in one turn).
Alternatively, which is what Naxx seems to aim for, is to create some new deck options that may be good vs Zoo and rely on them to become a big enough part of the meta to shift Zoo out temporarily. The oddity here is that those classes come online pretty late due to the staggered releases so we'll see.
Compare that to yesterday in Reynad vs Tides, they got Maexnna and The Beast respectively. xD
Feel like he was playing at a disadvantage due to having to play Tides immediately after getting wrecked hard by Alchemixt.
partyphone
Banned
that's just the nature of tourneys.
And Captains Parrot haha.
lol yeah, webspinner might be the funnest card in the game. With my luck, I know i'm getting only parrots. On a different note, went 2-3 in arena (becoming somehow common for me now, used to be always 5-7+ range) but opened a Velen.
That is amazing. That has got to be infuriating when it happens, but in hindsight is kinda cool.
Yeah, it was too ridiculous to get mad about even then. I just had a dumb Webspinner who cycled itself in a different game. Actually not too bad for tempo when it happens early.
I see him being used in Freeze Mage decks as a swap for loot hoarder or novice engineer but probably nothing else. If you put multiple secrets in you kind of want to be able to choose which/when you play a secret. LIke having him grab explosive trap on an empty board is probably a bad idea. Meanwhile with freeze mage, the mage would probably play ice barrier or ice block any time they could if they had the free mana. So there he would be a 2/2 body and a 3 mana secret for 2 mana, pretty sick.
Professor Lich
Member
Funny thing about the webspinner is the card text talks about how these spiders capture all kinds of things in their web cocoons. Gives me the image of this tiny spider somehow capturing and web wrapping a giant T-Rex.
Bitmap Frogs
Mr. Community
I'm a super casual player and was amazed today when I got my best arena run ever at 8 wins. Unexciting news for ya'll veterans I guess though ;D
Ran as mage and the backbone of my deck were 3 tazdingos, 3 water elementals, 2 flamestrikes and 2 fireballs. My three loses were first against a shaman (got owned hard, couldn't get past a fern creeper he kept buffing and reviving), a hunter (close game, but in the end I didn't tap into any of my board clears) and the last one, a mage who just spanked me.
Fun stuff =)
Ran as mage and the backbone of my deck were 3 tazdingos, 3 water elementals, 2 flamestrikes and 2 fireballs. My three loses were first against a shaman (got owned hard, couldn't get past a fern creeper he kept buffing and reviving), a hunter (close game, but in the end I didn't tap into any of my board clears) and the last one, a mage who just spanked me.
Fun stuff =)
Bitmap Frogs
Mr. Community
RumblingRosco
Member
As Priest, I usually end it with Prophet Velen --> Mind Blast --> Holy Smite for 14 damage plus hit with whatever I have on the board. A little gimmicky, but fun.
toadsworth
Banned
What a shitty quest:
Could at least be worth 60 gold, 40 is just a slap in the face. Guess thats what I get for rerolling?
Could at least be worth 60 gold, 40 is just a slap in the face. Guess thats what I get for rerolling?
Grady Durden
Member
I spent the 20 bones on the dlc, I never buy dlc except for games I really like. Did you guys pay gold or hard earned dollars?
i had an iTunes giftcard.
Yeah I think Spell Master is legitimately the worst quest in the game. Second worst is probably Only the Mighty (20 minions at 5+ mana).
toadsworth
Banned
Most of the quests seem not very well thought out. Surely they could've made some more fun challenges? Maybe even some class-based challenges, like x healing or something.
I guess I just want more interesting ways to earn gold. But that doesn't make them more money, does it?
Procarbine
Forever Platinum
I don't want to be subjected to dumb gimmicks to complete my dailies, rerolling quests for classes I don't have cards for is bad enough. Playing and getting wins is enough.
Also, silly quests would probably make Blizz more money as people wouldn't want to do them.
I went ahead and bought them too. Seemed better than spending what little gold I covet for cards value wise.
EscapingJail
Member
Streaming again right now
gonna stream for a couple hours with commentary
http://www.twitch.tv/escapingjail/
I'm currently in a 4-0 arena right now.
Cam is on so come look at my handsome face
EDIT: done
gonna stream for a couple hours with commentary
http://www.twitch.tv/escapingjail/
I'm currently in a 4-0 arena right now.
Cam is on so come look at my handsome face
EDIT: done
I mean there's a reason it's popular. It's cheap and easy to do f2p and it wins games.
How can you tell it's a bot?
Yeah, I get the appeal. To this point I've just been grinding away trying to build a decent card base and see what classes I like. At the very least, Zoo seems like a nice way to blow through quests until I have the ability to put something competitive together. Hell, I don't even have the Leeroy haha.
How the cards are played. Theres this awkward delay in between each attack or card play that appears to be random between 3 and 5 seconds. Doesnt matter whats on the board or what the situation is, (even if they have lethal by like 10 damage) theres this slow slow play. That, and he played the guy like 3 times and it was the same each. Also of course there's zero card hover or targeting ever. Like, never... theres just these long pauses between each move.
Its really obvious when you see it though.
Damn, I didn't even know that was a thing. What's the point? I mean, it's not like you can sell gold, that's what bots are traditionally used for in most games (in my experience). Or is it just for losers who suck so bad but want to be able to brag that they're whatever-high level and are "so good" at the game? Shit, I suck and I know I suck. I just rank up to 20 so I can get the card back, and I'm good.
I guess the point would be to leave it on 24/7 to grind the 10 gold from 3 wins? Dunno.
Just to design an AI can beat human player is interesting all by itself, imho. It is very possible after 1 or 2 years, AI player will sit on the top of the ladder.
That's why there is a daily cap of 100 gold from those means.. they went so far to make botting not worth it that I can't believe anyone would bother with it. Maybe it's just grinding out the golden hero.
That's still a pack a day. That gets you almost 3 times more gold than you could with quests alone. I totally see why somebody would do it.
I'm pretty sure it was just a guy playing on ipad...
That's assuming that the AI wins 30 times a day. Let's say the average is 10 minutes per game.. that's 144 games per day which means the AI has to achieve more than a 20% win rate. And that's assuming that it can always find a matched partner at all times of the day or night.
If there's any justice, they'll find a way to just pit all the bots against each other in the darkest depths of latency hell.
EscapingJail
Member
14-2 so far for the day still streaming till I lose
EDIT: done for the day 15-3
EDIT: done for the day 15-3
Some guy called Veem was streaming yesterday, started off as druid, got a few wins and loses then switched to Zoo because "it's more consistent, whatever you draw you're going to be able to play right away". The consistency is a massive factor in why it's so good + card draw hero power only plays into that.
Bitmap Frogs
Mr. Community
Was about to say, I play on ipad and I never do the card hover or highlighting that PC players do.
Game's crossplay so you do get ipad players on the pc client.
Druid or zoo?
Its really not... But, people are just learning about the bots so give it a solid 3 weeks, you'll see. Its not iPad players, its really bots.
I think they are trying make zoo less frustrating. We have got a bunch more defensive options and the biggest one to come. And while there are some cards that are good in zoo like creeper, egg and chow, they are only good if you use them to control the board, and avoid face all the time. The Leper Gnome/Leeroy zoo variety should be even more terrible.
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