-
Hey, guest user. Hope you're enjoying NeoGAF! Have you considered registering for an account? Come join us and add your take to the daily discourse.
Hearthstone |OT2| Created by Unstable Portal
- Thread starter ZealousD
- Start date
- Status
Some people play MTG seriously and that is true to all games in existence. You can play MTG casually, just find a group that doesn't give a fuck about the competetive side of the game.
And my game bugged out so bad... I can't target anything. The game is not frozen either...
Crazy Deathlord Shennanigans.
Opponent Has Deathlord
Had a Leper, Yeti With 1 Health, Damaged Golem, and A 4/3 Spellbreaker
Hit the Deathlord with the Spellbreaker to bring my Spellbreaker to 4/1 the Deathlord 2/4
Holy Fire Deathlord
Deathlord summons my Pyromancer, Pyromancer activates off my Holy Fire
Pyro Kills ALL my minions.
Opponent Has Deathlord
Had a Leper, Yeti With 1 Health, Damaged Golem, and A 4/3 Spellbreaker
Hit the Deathlord with the Spellbreaker to bring my Spellbreaker to 4/1 the Deathlord 2/4
Holy Fire Deathlord
Deathlord summons my Pyromancer, Pyromancer activates off my Holy Fire
Pyro Kills ALL my minions.
Fixed1979
Member
huh, the minions don't trigger their battle cry abilities, or do you mean other cards like knife juggler?
That's just fucked up.
Buzzard this time. Buzzard says "when you summon a beast", but I guess all minion placement counts as summoning... so why can't deahlord rulings say "your opponent summons a random minion"...
LossLess009
Member
Wouldn't "summon" imply triggering battlecry?
Also, am I the only one to get enemy Deathlords to call into play a naked Faceless? Happened twice in a row, in different matches. Really got me angry, almost wanted to stab the couch (lol)
ShinNL
Member
That's the awesome part of Deathlord
I had something similar but I was the Deathlord player... muhahaha.I thought the same at first, but if you read the Pyro text it says "After you cast a spell..." and I guess the game considers the "after" to be once all related effects that were caused by that spell have been completed. In this case, the sequence of events would look like this:
Cast Holy Fire->Deathlord dies->Deathrattle activates->Summons Pyromancer
Spell is now "done" being cast
Since Pyro is now on the board, activate Pyro's AoE damage
Mobius and pet octopus
Member
Wow... this priest thoughtstole my tirion. And when I played my tirion he mind controlled it. After I silenced it, he played the thoughtstole tirion.
I disagree with this sentiment because it implies it lacks depth you'd expect in a more matured game.
I first played MTG when it first came out. And I think like MTG the game is going to add depth with each set and even naxxramas added a lot with deathrattles and making the order as it is. There are things that MTG does well that MTG will never be able to do.
It is designed to be accessible for new players and I don't think that takes away from it either.
I still won
I disagree with this sentiment because it implies it lacks depth you'd expect in a more matured game.
I first played MTG when it first came out. And I think like MTG the game is going to add depth with each set and even naxxramas added a lot with deathrattles and making the order as it is. There are things that MTG does well that MTG will never be able to do.
It is designed to be accessible for new players and I don't think that takes away from it either.
Super Nothing
Member
That's the awesome part of Deathlord
Deathlord can also blow up in your face just as badly. I killed a Deathlord the other day that pulled in my Grommash. The other guy instantly conceded.
Mobius and pet octopus
Member
Things that HS does well that MTG will never do, like secrets for instance.
Fixed1979
Member
Last time I post this I swear. Signups close in about 4 hours, tournament starts tomorrow.
The North American NeoGAF Hearthstone Superstar Open Challenge Season One (September Edition)!
I don't mind secrets, but would definitely appreciate some more cards to help combat them...especially in the current meta.
The North American NeoGAF Hearthstone Superstar Open Challenge Season One (September Edition)!
I don't mind secrets, but would definitely appreciate some more cards to help combat them...especially in the current meta.
Mobius and pet octopus
Member
According to their philosophy their should be more ways to combat secrets. But countering secrets kinda already exists and if you really need a card that is good against secrets it would be stonetusk boar, at least for fighting against several hunter secrets and especially freezing trap.
Stonetusk boar is only good against some secrets. Unless it procs something all you did was burn a card in order to get information.
Mobius and pet octopus
Member
That is often enough. You drop a stonetusk boar vs mage, it checks for mirror entity immediately. Hit face and it checks for ice armor and vaporize. You can easily cut out 3 of the 6. Using other situational information, you can form strong conclusions if it isn't one of those 3.
Vs hunter, playing it removes snipe, hitting face removes freezing trap, misdirection, and explosive trap. If it doesn't proc, you know it is snake trap.
Vs paladin, playing it removes repetence, hitting face removes eye for an eye (lol) and noble sacrifice. Leaving only the possibility of avenge and redemption.
And by remove I mean removes them from being a possibility if it doesn't proc. And you aren't burning a card to do so since you still have a 1/1 minion which is perfectly fine for a 1cc even if not ideal. The potential gains are enormous. Perhaps you are 1 slam of grommash or another big minion from sealing a win but the hunter played a freezing trap. Same goes for noble sacrifice even though that secret isn't used often outside of aggro paladin.
Just think of it like a semi-effective flare that instead of drawing a card plays you a boar. And neutral minions ought to be less effective than class spells anyway.
Yeah but we're talking about less than half as effective here. And if you're playing against a class that doesn't use secrets it's almost a wasted card. At least with Flare you can still use the card for cycle or unstealth a minion like shade.
Mobius and pet octopus
Member
That is pretty much what a neutral secret counter would be. Less useful vs non-secret decks.
If they actually put an anti-secret card in the game, it could easily remove all usefulness of secrets from the game, especially if you're expecting something that destroys secrets.
And it shouldn't do all that... If you're expecting a neutral flare don't get your hopes up.
Good news though, because acidic ooze and harrison jones are still very strong vs weapons.
I am not saying boar replaces flare. Please get your anaology straight, because you start off with saying "like" and then conclude with "replaced". Boar is LIKE flare actually is like saying bloodmage is LIKE loot hoarder. I am not saying the are the same, I am saying they are similar.
My problem with boar is that against mage it does nothing against the most important secrets (ice block, duplicate, counterspell). And isn't very good against hunter secrets if they have a taunt. And if the secret is explosive it doesn't stop you and all your minions from taking 2 damage. And doesn't do anything against the best paladin secret (avenge).
Boar is good against the shitty secrets
I really don't see why adding one neutral minion with something like "Battlecry : Remove one enemy secret" would be that bad. It would still be a tech choice to put it in considering it's only really useful against 2 classes (Paladin secrets suck so they don't really matter).
The idea that class cards should always be better than neutrals is ridiculous. And flare would still be better than a minion who removes a secret because it also removes stealth and cycles itself.
The idea that class cards should always be better than neutrals is ridiculous. And flare would still be better than a minion who removes a secret because it also removes stealth and cycles itself.
Mobius and pet octopus
Member
Freezing trap isn't a shitty secret. It is probably the strongest secret hunters have and definitely the one with the most swing potential.
I don't see why we should have a card that negates a trap's effect entirely. We don't have a card that negates a spell entirely (outside of counterspell of course). Even loatheb isn't discriminatory between secrets and spells.
A battlecry minion would... play a minion in additional to killing off a secret. It would be better than card draw.
We already DO have a card that negates traps. It's called flare. So either remove flare, or give all classes a way to remove them.
Mobius and pet octopus
Member
You know I meant a neutral card...
Freezing trap is the only good secret that boar can proc. And if it wasn't freezing? then you either ran into explosive and threw away a card for nothing since your board all takes the 2 damage hit anyway or you just made their buzzard unleash combo stronger. Boar is simple not good enough to actually see practical use in high level play.
It's a stated design goal that for anything in the game if a player loses to something and comes away with the feeling, "man I was helpless against ____ . ____ is too good." that they should be able to look at their card collection and go, 'ah ha! this card completely destroys ____'.
Mobius and pet octopus
Member
You guys are missing the point of me saying boar is good vs traps. But sure, if you just play a boar into explosive trap while you have a board you want to get value out of, you made a misplay. That is on you, not boar's effectiveness for triggering traps. And when you play a boar and hit face, like I previously said, you're removing like all but 1 secret from being possible if it doesn't proc. The point isn't to remove traps but to mitigate their impact.
And sure, I said that they might add more ways to combat secrets... but to counter them via destroying? Doubtful. They haven't added anything like that for other spells. Sure, loatheb stalls spell uses a turn - which also impacts traps - but they haven't added something that can stop them from fireballing your face for example. That is just the nature of the design that spells are meant to be strong because they are largely one and done.
I'm not entirely sure how they may add ways to fight secrets, but I don't think it'll be something like a neutral flare.
edit:
Maybe something like:
Battlecry: Secrets are revealed and won't trigger this turn.
Or just one of those.
Minsc
Gold Member
You counter secrets by playing 3 of your own. Just add 100 more secrets in the game, to the point where no one can even remotely guess what it could be (this of course implies Flare gets fixed, as it's completely 100% broken, even if it had no other text but cycling a card, it'd still be broken, yup, a 1 mana card that reads, draw a card is broken in this game).
The only reason we're even talking about secrets is because of how freaking good mad scientist is.
How about we hit the core problem here instead of telling everybody they need to start running stonetusk boar as a soft counter?
How about we hit the core problem here instead of telling everybody they need to start running stonetusk boar as a soft counter?
This should be good, most exciting line-up ever imo.
http://www.liquidhearth.com/forum/hearthstone/466310-vgvn-tournament-3-a-new-take-on-invitationals
http://www.liquidhearth.com/forum/hearthstone/466310-vgvn-tournament-3-a-new-take-on-invitationals
lawlohwhat
Banned
i experienced some real shitheads at competitive mtg events... people who don't bathe, and just some generally sexist or obnoxious behavior, so i see where you're coming from. lots of nice, well adjusted people play the game too though.
mtg is by far a better game as far as pure mechanics go, but it has a very high barrier to entry in the competitive scene and it's much more expensive to play. hearthstone is intentionally easy to access. personally i like being able to just pick up and play a couple games in hs when my head isn't in the competitive space, and that just can't happen in mtg unless you're playing casually at a dinner table with some friends.
they're very different animals and i'm glad for that. i do miss mtg sometimes but hs has some interesting nuance to it and the ui is great. the game will only get better as expansions continue to arrive. the constructed meta is kind of annoying right now, but it'll even out soon enough.
Mobius and pet octopus
Member
I am not saying that...
Just saying it is a minion that is good to include in a heavy secret meta. Personally I prefer anticipating secrets and playing ahead of them. But some decks could be served well in a heavy secret meta to have a stonetusk boar. Even some pros have mentioned boar in regards to beating secrets.
KingKiller
Neo Member
Built a hunter deck. I get it now, guys.
ShinNL
Member
I just breezed through my daily with my Miracle Hunter because of that. Gadgetzan + Flare is such insane value. The entire theme of my deck is catching so many people off guard. I'm cycling hard through my deck even without Buzzard + UTH.
Mobius and pet octopus
Member
There is the last call tournament this weekend. It is punishing me for not going for legendary in the last couple seasons. I did before the card back was out and I haven't bothered much since. And you need the legend card back to participate!
Placing qualifies you for blizzcon qualifiers.
I am saying boar and flare are so dissimilar it's pointless to compare them.
RazorbackDB
Member
You don't take 28 of damage with your opponent in 1 of health everyday.
FUUUUCK!
Haunted
Member
Mobius and pet octopus
Member
I'm not really comparing them... I am discussing boar being useful against secret decks. Whether they are comparable or not is not really the point, although I have heard pros call stonetusk boar the neutral flare. Pros like amaz, so they are clearly comparable.
I had no problems with them as well. Paladin was mostly about getting cult master or divine favor. The warrior I don't even remember.
I'm not a pro. But flare is literally the best card to use against all secrets. This is an objective fact.
.
Stone tusk boar might be the best neutral card to replace it, but it's trash in any comparison.
Edit: I'm at the top of the page so I'll elaborate more I guess
Consider:
Both cards on turn 1:
Boar gives you a 1/1 that trades with a few things, maybe hits face for 1. Not super good.
Flare thins and cycles a card. Card draw is pretty good.
Flare is better turn 1 most of the time.
Both cards when 1 secret is in play:
Boar gets rid of freezing and explosive trap, as well as snipe. It also removes many of the other classes secrets. It costs 1 mana and dies usually to do this, or is returned to your hand.
Flare Gives you a card!!! And destroys secrets without activating them!!! So no bow charges.
Flare is better at getting rid of secrets (even if you don't consider the card draw).
Both cards late in the game:
Boar gives you 1 dmg maybe trades for something on one hp, if you are top decking probably loses you the game.
Flare cycles through your deck and leaves plenty of mana to play whatever you draw. If you are top decking, great! Cycle the card.
Flare is better late.
Both cards against miracle rogue:
Flare can stop gadget conceal...
Literally the only situation in which boar is better is when you are 1 damage off lethal and have 1 mana.
The comparison is a joke.
- Status