I believe this has been noted as a common bug. It happened to Trump a while back.
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Hearthstone |OT2| Created by Unstable Portal
- Thread starter ZealousD
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I believe this has been noted as a common bug. It happened to Trump a while back.
Lol that's fucked up, I hope they fix that bug ASAP.
Right now, I think it's working as intended. Both are end of turn effects and will both happen. It's similar to how you can't negate Loatheb's battlecry in any way.
If they want it to work differently they'd have to add timings/order to end of turn effects. i.e. have rag trigger first or have kel check after others have resolved.
The way they have it now is the simplest way and would allow the easiest addition of future end of turn effect cards. Maybe they could give the first card played the end of turn priority, similar to how sylvanus works now. That'd probably be the best solution.
If they did that:
Rag played first would kill kel (for good) before his effect is added to the table for end of turn resolution.
Kel played first would add his effect to the table before he's killed and would revive him afterwards.
Just a bug.
Guess they should add "other" to the card text where it says "all friendly minions" then.
lawlohwhat
Banned
3 cards left and 1hp vs a mage at 4hp with iceblock, full board control
one card is truesilver champion
another is guardian of kings
i draw ancient brewmaster
time to kill myself
one card is truesilver champion
another is guardian of kings
i draw ancient brewmaster
time to kill myself
There's a 4/2 Abomination and a Mad Scientist on my opponent's board. I combo a SI:7 to kill the abomination. Deathrattle goes off, killing the mad scientist, and turning my SI:7 into a 3/1.
My opponent's secret goes into play, and then triggers immediately. It's mirror entity. It clones a 3/1 SI:7 agent.
The way Hearthstone resolves the order of actions is really baffling sometimes.
My opponent's secret goes into play, and then triggers immediately. It's mirror entity. It clones a 3/1 SI:7 agent.
The way Hearthstone resolves the order of actions is really baffling sometimes.
Mobius and pet octopus
Member
Battlecries always go off before secrets so I am not surprised. If you faceless something it takes the faceless'd minion not the faceless.
Procarbine
Forever Platinum
I had something similar happen. Fire ele killing my mad scientist, brings up mirror, copies the fire ele.
Minsc
Gold Member
Battlecries occur before the minion is summoned.
Battlecry > minion dies > deathrattle > secret brought up > summoning from original battlecry finishes > secret triggers.
Mobius and pet octopus
Member
Is it paranoid to keep a card in your hand from mulligan just so the priest has less chance of thoughtstealing it?
edit:
The card is aldor peacekeeper. I don't want him aldoring a strong minion then using cabal shadow priest lol
edit:
The card is aldor peacekeeper. I don't want him aldoring a strong minion then using cabal shadow priest lol
The weird thing here is how the secret goes off and copies my SI:7 agent, even though I played the agent before the secret. I mean, it wasn't a bad result for me, it just seems out of order. Ordinarily I would imagine that the secret would just go into play and I would have to play around the mirror entity for my next minion, not that it should trigger immediately.
Mobius and pet octopus
Member
I feel like my deathrattle control paladin deck is pretty strong in this meta.
But I just had a paladin mirror match that almost drove me nuts. I ended up winning on like the 5th or 6th round of fatigue after 3 rounds before he FINALLY dropped tirion so I could silence/equality and swing face for the win. He had already played 2 silences so I felt like I had the win in the bag if I could neutralize his tirion and get value out of my tirion and it worked. I was on the defensive the whole game too.
I need like a couple minutes of decompression after I match lasts as long as that.
Yeah, that part is pretty odd but I've come to accept it already. I try to have a poisoned dagger up already to take out the si7 agent when it gets mirrored.
But I just had a paladin mirror match that almost drove me nuts. I ended up winning on like the 5th or 6th round of fatigue after 3 rounds before he FINALLY dropped tirion so I could silence/equality and swing face for the win. He had already played 2 silences so I felt like I had the win in the bag if I could neutralize his tirion and get value out of my tirion and it worked. I was on the defensive the whole game too.
I need like a couple minutes of decompression after I match lasts as long as that.
Yeah, that part is pretty odd but I've come to accept it already. I try to have a poisoned dagger up already to take out the si7 agent when it gets mirrored.
Letterbomb
Banned
Blizzard's matchmaking for this game is ridiculous. Can't escape people who've clearly paid for 50+ packs. All these fucking legendaries that I can't compete against. Jesus.
The strongest deck right now doesn't use any legendaries.
Liu Kang Baking A Pie
Member
Yeah there really has to be some sort of card catalog weight to this. It's stupid to have no legendaries and get rolled by 5 monster legendaries late game. And how would I know they have those waiting for me, anyway?
lawlohwhat
Banned
should be a separate ladder for basic decks
Mobius and pet octopus
Member
Wow... this bot just used arcanite intellect as his last card in his deck left... lol.
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I wonder if kiron tor mage over-rides loatheb's effect. I am guessing it does.
Rarity doesn't mean stronger cards though.
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I wonder if kiron tor mage over-rides loatheb's effect. I am guessing it does.
Rarity doesn't mean stronger cards though.
Not absolutely sure. There are some that don't weigh well. But a truck ton of them do. And many of them can turn a game hard. They really gotta add deck weight in there somewhere.
Its not all basic cards either. I've been playing a good long while and just got my second Eaglehorn. Its easy to forget that you don't get a lot of these cards for free. A new player hitting casual or ranked not only plays against legendaries they don't have, but also rares and epics. Theres a vast difference that the matchmaking doesn't even consider. Such bad design.
The matchmaking will give you a 50% winrate on average, so if you are running to a bunch of legendaries at low ranks, you can contend yourself with the fact that the opponent is pretty shit at the game (or doesn't play much).
When did the amount of matches played correlate with how good you are? I think Yoshi is doing the same, grinding dem wins at low ranks to get golden.
PandaPandaPanda
Member
I don't know if you're in the same boat as me (basically pretty much new) and I can't win a game to fucking save my life. It's either pay money for a chance to get some good cards or just move on. I'm leaning toward the later because I might as well just buy lottery tickets at that point.
This probably explains why I can't rank up past 19, let alone win because people are doing this, ugh.
Letterbomb
Banned
A-fucking-greed. They have some serious imbalance issues going on. The only legendaries I have in this game are the ones I got from the first two wings of Naxxus or w/e it's called. Loatheb and the spider. Not nearly enough to compete with all this shit. Sylvannas, Ragnaros, Bloodhoof are the ones I run into the most. Can't fucking stand it.
Since always? Most people improve at something the longer they do it. Just makes no sense to use a gold hero class at low ranks. If you're grinding for your daily 30 wins may as well use a class you don't have a gold portrait for.
But people doing this concede half their games immediately, so it evens out.
No, you are probably just bad.. There are plenty of basic/cheap decks that can take you to the high ranks.
Mobius and pet octopus
Member
If I were a new player I would do one of two things.
The first option is to learn arena. This won't happen instantly. It requires a real solid grasp on the basics of the game, like trading efficiently, knowing when to try and get value (like taking out 2 of their cards with 1 of yours) from a card and how, and knowing how to play around and against certain cards.
You'll also probably want to follow a guide on how to draft for arena. Heck, just read a couple guides on how to play arena. Once you learn arena though, you have the best way to earn cards for constructed at your fingertips. Just play 1 or 2 arenas per day. You don't even have to finish that day. Save up all your gold but open all your packs. Don't dust anything because you will get cards you want to craft and in the long run you make the most out of your dust.
The second option, which is more for card game veterans or people who have a very solid grasp on the basics, is to work towards building 1 or 2 decks and playing them on ladder. This isn't the best way to earn cards and definitely not the most efficiently. You're better off earning cards in arena, but if you like constructed or hate arena, you can build a deck or two that will work well in constructed and it shouldn't take a ton of time. But you will have to dust cards you might want in the long run.
There are two main classes being played that are low dust cost. You shouldn't feel bad or be made to feel bad for playing either one. Both have their skill sets, don't let people convince you it is skill-less.
Midrange hunter, face hunter, zoolock, aggro lock are 4 main decks that are pretty cheap yet very effective. The two decks of those 4 that have the broadest range of strong match ups are the midrange hunter and zoolock, although frankly I see these 2 decks fading from the meta over the next couple weeks imo. They'll not disappear though.
There are more than a few variations of those 2 deck archetypes.
I only really know the hunter decks, I don't really play zoo although I have tried them out in the past:
Here is a more aggressive midrange hunter
http://tempostorm.com/articles/say-hello-to-alesh-and-his-undertaking-sunshine-hunter-guide
Here is a trap based midrange hunter
http://tempostorm.com/decks/mad-hunter-with-gaara
Here is a beast focused midrange hunter (eh, for some reason I couldn't find it)
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Just a few thoughts:
I think we all started at your position (the new guy with no "advanced" cards) playing against seemingly unbeatable decks. Over time you'll find that perhaps you weren't losing just because someone was playing strong cards. You'll start to see all the plays you can make each turn and you won't really know which is the best play to make. This is where knowledge about your deck and your opponent's deck comes into play. And there are a lot of tells on figuring out what kind of deck you are playing against.
The first option is to learn arena. This won't happen instantly. It requires a real solid grasp on the basics of the game, like trading efficiently, knowing when to try and get value (like taking out 2 of their cards with 1 of yours) from a card and how, and knowing how to play around and against certain cards.
You'll also probably want to follow a guide on how to draft for arena. Heck, just read a couple guides on how to play arena. Once you learn arena though, you have the best way to earn cards for constructed at your fingertips. Just play 1 or 2 arenas per day. You don't even have to finish that day. Save up all your gold but open all your packs. Don't dust anything because you will get cards you want to craft and in the long run you make the most out of your dust.
The second option, which is more for card game veterans or people who have a very solid grasp on the basics, is to work towards building 1 or 2 decks and playing them on ladder. This isn't the best way to earn cards and definitely not the most efficiently. You're better off earning cards in arena, but if you like constructed or hate arena, you can build a deck or two that will work well in constructed and it shouldn't take a ton of time. But you will have to dust cards you might want in the long run.
There are two main classes being played that are low dust cost. You shouldn't feel bad or be made to feel bad for playing either one. Both have their skill sets, don't let people convince you it is skill-less.
Midrange hunter, face hunter, zoolock, aggro lock are 4 main decks that are pretty cheap yet very effective. The two decks of those 4 that have the broadest range of strong match ups are the midrange hunter and zoolock, although frankly I see these 2 decks fading from the meta over the next couple weeks imo. They'll not disappear though.
There are more than a few variations of those 2 deck archetypes.
I only really know the hunter decks, I don't really play zoo although I have tried them out in the past:
Here is a more aggressive midrange hunter
http://tempostorm.com/articles/say-hello-to-alesh-and-his-undertaking-sunshine-hunter-guide
Here is a trap based midrange hunter
http://tempostorm.com/decks/mad-hunter-with-gaara
Here is a beast focused midrange hunter (eh, for some reason I couldn't find it)
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Just a few thoughts:
I think we all started at your position (the new guy with no "advanced" cards) playing against seemingly unbeatable decks. Over time you'll find that perhaps you weren't losing just because someone was playing strong cards. You'll start to see all the plays you can make each turn and you won't really know which is the best play to make. This is where knowledge about your deck and your opponent's deck comes into play. And there are a lot of tells on figuring out what kind of deck you are playing against.
Haunted
Member
I think the game has been out for long enough that many many people have legendaries in their deck, even if they didn't pay for any (like me!).
Not sure how matchmaking could resolve this tbh.
PandaPandaPanda
Member
I don't even understand from a design perspective on why the would allow they would allow this. It's pretty much asking to be exploited and it obviously is.
Of course skill wise i'm bad. I never claimed otherwise but the fact is i'm playing a bunch of people that I probably shouldn't be playing at all yet I still am because of Blizzard's awful design choices.
Agreed. But there's really no benefits to going higher in the ladder for me. They need to do one of two things. Make it so you get more points towards your gold hero from defeating higher rank players, or add new rewards for reaching legend or higher ranks. After you get legend once there's no reason to ever bother trying to get past rank 20 again.
They aren't playing a lot of minions in the early game. Only control decks can really run that many legendaries. So if you're up against a warrior who's armoring up a lot, expect legendaries. If you're running against a Paladin who's early game consists of things hero power, Acolyte of Pain, Earthen Ring Farseer, or Harvest Golem, expect legendaries.
ShinNL
Member
I pretty much always hold on to that card vs a Priest though. Don't want to deal with Injured Blademaster shenanigans.
PandaPandaPanda
Member
If they changed the reward system so higher rank = higher gold reward bonus/3 win bonus for higher rank I think that'd help but who knows. Sure the higher ranked people would probably max out very easily on but then just add some stupid cosmetic stuff like hats and make it a very high cost in the shop or something.
I'm probably just going to move on. I had fun with the game in the closed beta but it looks like i'm too far behind to even bother with some very questionable design choices that Blizzard made.
Most people don't actively try and improve their play. Thus they are stuck in whatever level they reach just by learning the cards and basic rules. If most people improved just by grinding then everyone would go from "bronze" to "masters" in no time.
In any competetive games I've learned not to worry about opponents who have thousands of hours played. It doesn't indicate anything about their skill.
ShinNL
Member
Not entirely true. I knew a few Starcraft players who I was sure will be forever bronze, max silver. But they never stopped playing while I have and they eventually landed in masters. And trust me, unlike HS, you don't accidentally land in masters with a few lucky win streaks.
While talent is a thing for sure, in some games experience and knowledge also matters, sometimes enough so it overcomes the lack of talent.
In HS the biggest challenge is luck. Talent and knowledge has a way lower influence than luck has. It's easily noticeable in a mirror match with the same decks. Luck will overcome whatever skill or knowledge someone has.
While talent is a thing for sure, in some games experience and knowledge also matters, sometimes enough so it overcomes the lack of talent.
In HS the biggest challenge is luck. Talent and knowledge has a way lower influence than luck has. It's easily noticeable in a mirror match with the same decks. Luck will overcome whatever skill or knowledge someone has.
The whole "this guy has a lot of Legendaries he must've dropped $500 on this game" thing is paranoid as all hell. Legendaries are somewhere in the neighborhood of 1/20 packs. There's 35 Legendaries in this game. Assuming someone had a third of them, got all their Legendaries from packs, and that they had no dupes, that's still almost $300. Anyone with that kind of money to drop casually on a card game would probably not be playing Hearthstone.
Occam's Razor says that Control Warrior kicking your ass has simply been playing the game for a lot longer than you have, grinding dailies, doing arenas, cracking open packs and dusting stuff they don't want, getting all the necessary pieces month over month. Or, they just lucked out in packs. The truth is probably somewhere in the middle. Get lucky with a few pulls here, then craft the rest with dust.
Occam's Razor says that Control Warrior kicking your ass has simply been playing the game for a lot longer than you have, grinding dailies, doing arenas, cracking open packs and dusting stuff they don't want, getting all the necessary pieces month over month. Or, they just lucked out in packs. The truth is probably somewhere in the middle. Get lucky with a few pulls here, then craft the rest with dust.
Haunted
Member
Predicting decks isn't that feasible at lower ranks. As much as I dislike how popular netdecking is, not everyone is doing it, especially in the lower ranks.
The funniest part of day9 streams are his incredulous responses when others are running personal decks that don't adhere to the same exact 30 cards found in popular decks. He's flabbergasted when his predictions don't work. "This rogue isn't running a miracle deck, WHAT IS GOING ON?" -> proceeds to lose because he is playing around cards that never were in his opponents deck and blames the opponent's "bad deck" (he just lost to) for it.
It's basically the Idra syndrome.
The funniest part of day9 streams are his incredulous responses when others are running personal decks that don't adhere to the same exact 30 cards found in popular decks. He's flabbergasted when his predictions don't work. "This rogue isn't running a miracle deck, WHAT IS GOING ON?" -> proceeds to lose because he is playing around cards that never were in his opponents deck and blames the opponent's "bad deck" (he just lost to) for it.
It's basically the Idra syndrome.
Haunted
Member
Damn right! I worked for my legendaries!
Though for full disclosure, I did buy one pack during the beta to get Gelbin and show my appreciation for the game. iirc it was a pretty shit pack
I wish the game had better lifetime stats - arenas played, arena run average, packs opened, cards owned etc etc
Mobius and pet octopus
Member
I generally try to get haunted creeper and harvest golem in my opening hand, but truesilver champion generally does work as well.
The aldor keepers I try to save for ragnaros or other big minions, not necessarily my favor card to keep in mulligan but I feel like them getting aldor peacekeeper is pretty big when something like cairne is involved.
Predicting decks isn't that feasible at lower ranks. As much as I dislike how popular netdecking is, not everyone is doing it, especially in the lower ranks.
The funniest part of day9 streams are his incredulous responses when others are running personal decks that don't adhere to the same exact 30 cards found in popular decks. He's flabbergasted when his predictions don't work. "This rogue isn't running a miracle deck, WHAT IS GOING ON?" -> proceeds to lose because he is playing around cards that never were in his opponents deck and blames the opponent's "bad deck" (he just lost to) for it.
It's basically the Idra syndrome.
Well HS only has one round which is just stupid in the sense of creative decks. You cannot adapt ever to anything other than the very predictable netdeck meta.
lawlohwhat
Banned
Predicting decks isn't that feasible at lower ranks. As much as I dislike how popular netdecking is, not everyone is doing it, especially in the lower ranks.
The funniest part of day9 streams are his incredulous responses when others are running personal decks that don't adhere to the same exact 30 cards found in popular decks. He's flabbergasted when his predictions don't work. "This rogue isn't running a miracle deck, WHAT IS GOING ON?" -> proceeds to lose because he is playing around cards that never were in his opponents deck and blames the opponent's "bad deck" (he just lost to) for it.
It's basically the Idra syndrome.
he is correct to say that many decks at the lower ranks are bad. unstable and unpredictable play is not sound for competition. a good competitive player in any game knows what his opponent is up to. a good play is one that still works even if your opponent knows what is coming. stability and consistency are very important for improving at the highest levels of play.
Haunted
Member
Ah, but it's not something that happens to someone who has played a of arena. You rely less on knowing the meta and knowing his deck and more on reacting to cards you see and extrapolating from the plays rather than the meta knowledge.
I feel if you play a lot of arena, you're not quite as stuck in that mindset and it's a mistake Day9 makes because he almost always plays constructed.
...and because he apparently hasn't learned anything from Idra's career.
Remember, if you think the play was shit/wrong but he wins because of it, it wasn't shit/wrong.I lose all the times because I'm expecting one archetype and the other guy is rolling around with a random list of cards they threw together and my plays turn out to be suboptimal. These decks usually have a few Yetis in there because Yeti is value.
There's no right or wrong to it, it's just a matter of playing the odds. That's all card games are, probability. The 4-5% difference in win rate is what separates an average player from a good player. There is no sense in getting upset over how this or that particular round played out, the only thing that matters is your performance against the entire field.
There's no right or wrong to it, it's just a matter of playing the odds. That's all card games are, probability. The 4-5% difference in win rate is what separates an average player from a good player. There is no sense in getting upset over how this or that particular round played out, the only thing that matters is your performance against the entire field.
Haunted
Member
guys guys!
I think I just encountered my first bot! Golden Hunter at Rank 17 playing a weird deck. Weird plays all around, no mouseovers, letting the line run down sometimes and sometimes not.
Either that was a bot or that guy was super drunk (he missed a very obvious lethal, opting to trade his Leeroy and 2 hounds into my 4-4 and 4-2 Nerubians when I had 7 HP). :lol
I think I just encountered my first bot! Golden Hunter at Rank 17 playing a weird deck. Weird plays all around, no mouseovers, letting the line run down sometimes and sometimes not.
Either that was a bot or that guy was super drunk (he missed a very obvious lethal, opting to trade his Leeroy and 2 hounds into my 4-4 and 4-2 Nerubians when I had 7 HP). :lol
call_kotaku
Member
Wow, a zoolock managed to pull off the soulfire - soulfire - doomguard dream "combo" on me for lethal with 5 cards in his hand.
I ain't even mad, that dude is obviously RNGesus.
I ain't even mad, that dude is obviously RNGesus.
ShinNL
Member
I can imagine the shock people have when they see my Pyro and Gadgetzan in my Hunter deck
Then the turn after Doomguard.
I was like... what.
That's nothing, I was Leeroyed Soulfired (discards 1 of the 2 remaining cards) Soulfired (so it did not discard the Soulfire). The turn after it was Knife Juggler, Doomguard.
Then the turn after Doomguard.
I was like... what.
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