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Hearthstone |OT2| Created by Unstable Portal

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S

slayn

needs to show more effort.
When a card splits, I think it's best to add the health and average the attack in terms of evaluation. So belcher would be more:
5 + 2 + 3 * (5 / 7) + 1 * (2 / 7) = around 9.4 stats, plus taunt for 10.4 stats which is par for 5 mana.

By the same measurement, harvest golem is 6 stats for 3 (par) and haunted creeper is 5 stats for 2 (par)
 
M

Mobius and pet octopus

Member
slayn said:
When a card splits, I think it's best to add the health and average the attack in terms of evaluation. So belcher would be more:
5 + 2 + 3 * (5 / 7) + 1 * (2 / 7) = around 9.4 stats, plus taunt for 10.4 stats which is par for 5 mana.

By the same measurement, harvest golem is 6 stats for 3 (par) and haunted creeper is 5 stats for 2 (par)
Click to expand...

Why would you average them? That kind of implies that getting 2 bodies is weaker than 1, where imo it is clearly stronger. Maybe I am missing something.
 
H

Haly

One day I realized that sadness is just another word for not enough coffee.
Living the Rivendere + Soul Priest + Zombie Chow dream!
 
H

Haly

One day I realized that sadness is just another word for not enough coffee.
Note to self: Soul Priest + Zombie Chow + Circle of Healing is a nonbo, not a combo.

EDIT: It's okay. I mind controlled his Cairne and Faceless'd his Tirion. WHY CRAFT LEGENDS WHEN I CAN TAKE YOURS?
 
C

call_kotaku

Member
Haly said:
Note to self: Soul Priest + Zombie Chow + Circle of Healing is a nonbo, not a combo.

EDIT: It's okay. I mind controlled his Cairne and Faceless'd his Tirion. WHY CRAFT LEGENDS WHEN I CAN TAKE YOURS?
Click to expand...

Auchenai + Rivendare + 2x Zombie Chow + Circle is the 20 damage 10 mana dream

Better than post-9/22 Miracle Rogue!
Kappa
 
S

slayn

needs to show more effort.
Mobius and pet octopus said:
Why would you average them? That kind of implies that getting 2 bodies is weaker than 1, where imo it is clearly stronger. Maybe I am missing something.
Click to expand...
Because a belcher only has 3 attack for ~71% of it's life so it is overvaluing it to say that it is a 3/7.

Likewise it's not fair to say highmane is a 6/9 = 15 stats. I would rate it as:

5 + (5/9) * 6 + 2 + (2/9) * 2 + 2 + (2/9) * 2 = 13.2 stats or a bit better than a 6/7.

How much better than a 6/7 is going to depend on how much you value the card needing 2 damage sources to kill. I think that is worth about the same as other unique abilities which is why I would say haunted creeper at 5 + ability is equal to a knife juggler who is also 5 + ability.
belcher is 10.4 + ability which is better than, say, spectral knight at 10 + ability
highmane is 13.2 + ability + beast which is crazy strong. Probably even better than fire elemental.

edit:
"Requiring two damage sources" is a good ability to have. But in general split stats are not better. This can be shown from the fact that no one plays silver hand knight in constructed, but if there was a 5 mana 6/6 everyone would be playing it because it would be grossly overpowered. So any good evaluation of card stats should show that silver hand knight as a 4/4 and a 2/2 is worse than a 6/6.
 
M

Mobius and pet octopus

Member
slayn said:
Because a belcher only has 3 attack for ~71% of it's life so it is overvaluing it to say that it is a 3/7.

Likewise it's not fair to say highmane is a 6/9 = 15 stats. I would rate it as:

5 + (5/9) * 6 + 2 + (2/9) * 2 + 2 + (2/9) * 2 = 13.2 stats or a bit better than a 6/7.

How much better than a 6/7 is going to depend on how much you value the card needing 2 damage sources to kill. I think that is worth about the same as other unique abilities which is why I would say haunted creeper at 5 + ability is equal to a knife juggler who is also 5 + ability.
belcher is 10.4 + ability which is better than, say, spectral knight at 10 + ability
highmane is 13.2 + ability + beast which is crazy strong. Probably even better than fire elemental.

edit:
"Requiring two damage sources" is a good ability to have. But in general split stats are not better. This can be shown from the fact that no one plays silver hand knight in constructed, but if there was a 5 mana 6/6 everyone would be playing it because it would be grossly overpowered. So any good evaluation of card stats should show that silver hand knight as a 4/4 and a 2/2 is worse than a 6/6.
Click to expand...

The strongest 6 drop in the game as strong as boulderfist ogre? I think that is just a conclusion to make that is far from the truth.

Silver hand knight isn't played for many reasons, including walking into aoes and just being a mediocre card in general.
 
S

slayn

needs to show more effort.
Mobius and pet octopus said:
The strongest 6 drop in the game as strong as boulderfist ogre? I think that is just a conclusion to make that is far from the truth.

Silver hand knight isn't played for many reasons, including walking into aoes and just being a mediocre card in general.
Click to expand...
Boulderfist Ogre is *really* good. So many people undervalue that card. Cairne, Sylvanas, Highmane, and Fire Elemental are all better but only by a very small margin.

And silver hand knight is 'a mediocre card in general' because it's stats are split.
 
F

FutureZombie

Banned
I opened a hell of a pack of cards today:

Y2WxUSg.jpg


The funny thing is, this is a pack I got after going 0-3 in the arena, lol!
 
M

Mobius and pet octopus

Member
slayn said:
Boulderfist Ogre is *really* good. So many people undervalue that card. Cairne, Sylvanas, Highmane, and Fire Elemental are all better but only by a very small margin.

And silver hand knight is 'a mediocre card in general' because it's stats are split.
Click to expand...

Boulderfist is merely alright. I haven't seen it in constructed in months and only then in budget decks. The margin between those cards is way bigger than you propose. Boulderfist and even yeti fell out of favor a while ago for a good reason, they just aren't good enough.

Whatever gains silverhand knight has by being split, it loses from being split. Double damage from aoe comes to mind. Wouldn't you say it is a 3/6 since you average the attack? That is pretty bad under your model. That is way worse than every 5 mana minion in the game I think. Almost every 5 drop has better stats and/or better text.

There are very good, and big, reasons why cards like boulderfist/yeti aren't used and deathrattles like cairne are. Cairne brings more stats, more survivability, eats up silences or multiple removals... just really high potential cards whereas... boulderfist... merely a 6/7. Survives a fireball I guess.

edit:

I think in summary, I don't think your averaging of the attack stat is actually reflective of how good the cards are.
 
J

johnsmith

remember me
I need to stop playing arena. I'm so fucking tilted from everybody having bloodknights, black knights, MC Techs that steal the perfect guy, and topdicking lethal. Also everybody has at least 3 aoes, when I don't get shit.
 
H

Haly

One day I realized that sadness is just another word for not enough coffee.
Did a Hunter topdeck Kill Command against you or something?
 
K

Kotetsu534

Member
Once I get past 5-6 wins I assume (often correctly) that every deck is insane, packed with high value cards and AoE. Probably a deadly Legendary in there too. You get the occasional average deck (presumably piloted by a Legend), but deepish Arena is filled with Mages with multiple Flamestrikes, Fireballs and Polymorphs, Shamans with Hexes, Rockbiters and Fire Elementals out the wazoo and Paladins with numerous Truesilver Champions. There's also the Zoolocks and Hunters that look like they've walked in from constructed. Wouldn't be Arena otherwise!
 
H

Haly

One day I realized that sadness is just another word for not enough coffee.
Maybe when you start out to get a decent collection going, but you get heavy diminishing returns after that.
 
B

Baffey

Neo Member
Haly said:
Maybe when you start out to get a decent collection going, but you get heavy diminishing returns after that.
Click to expand...

Alright, cause I have all the basic cards but it seems like it'll take forever to get the cards that are necessary to make a decent deck.
 
J

johnsmith

remember me
Fuck this game.

yxBKPTF.png


Of course he drew this, and I didn't draw my bloodknight when he had an argent squire and coined out a scarlet crusader.
Next game: coin defias, I get no 2 or 3 drops even though I drafted a shit ton.

My 10 wins taste bitter as shit. I need to uninstall this garbage.
 
S

Special C

Member
I opened a Gold Mukla and a Gold Harrison within 5 packs. I DE'd the Harrison for Rag.

I have Carne, Rag, Leroy, TBK .

I'm guessing the only 2 staple Neutral Legendries I don't have are Sylvanis and Ysera.. Sylvania is kind of the FotM right now with all the Deathrattle going on. Which should I craft?
 
M

Mobius and pet octopus

Member
Special C said:
I opened a Gold Mukla and a Gold Harrison within 5 packs. I DE'd the Harrison for Rag.

I have Carne, Rag, Leroy, TBK .

I'm guessing the only 2 staple Neutral Legendries I don't have are Sylvanis and Ysera.. Sylvania is kind of the FotM right now with all the Deathrattle going on. Which should I craft?
Click to expand...

Ah you should have kept harrison. He is a good card.

Mukla is a good card too, but I wouldn't blame you for DEing him.

Harrison on the other hand has consistently shown himself strong in many different metas.
 
C

caesar

Banned
Special C said:
I opened a Gold Mukla and a Gold Harrison within 5 packs. I DE'd the Harrison for Rag.

I have Carne, Rag, Leroy, TBK .

I'm guessing the only 2 staple Neutral Legendries I don't have are Sylvanis and Ysera.. Sylvania is kind of the FotM right now with all the Deathrattle going on. Which should I craft?
Click to expand...
Sylvanas is always going to be powerful I think. Although both are fun to use I would go Syl.
 
P

Professor Lich

Member
Special C said:
Which should I craft?
Click to expand...

Not an expert, but this is what I can think of;

Really depends on what you like to play. While both Sylvanas and Ysera are great cards, I would say Yesra is more powerful in a late game control deck. For example, you'll want other strong cards to make your oppneat use their removal, then use Yesra to get the most dream cards. Sylvanas, while also good for control, can see really good use earlier on, and can be used a bit more aggressively. I also like Sylvanas more because if you can keep her on the board, your opponent has to be careful with what they play. Sometimes they'll throw down something stronger than Sylvanas and you can steal it.
 
C

CarbonatedFalcon

Member
So apparently Kel'Thuzad will rez himself if killed by a Ragnaros hit.

Pretty bullshit.

Priest still lost though because he healed himself at 3 HP going down to 1 with an Auchenai on board (and 2+ direct damage on my board). So many Priests are dumbasses though - I swear a misheal with Auchenai out happens every other time I play one.
 
K

Kotetsu534

Member
A couple of weeks ago I was losing pretty hard against a Priest who decided to do the whole "throw three extra minions on the board for insult" thing. Then he used the last card in his hand, Circle of Healing, and had no board and no hand. Don't play too many minions, or you might forget what they all do.
 
X

Xanathus

Member
EscapingJail said:
Why is literally every twitch steamer only streaming arena right now.

arena is so painful to watch
Click to expand...
There is even less incentive to ladder now than there ever was in the last five/six seasons since this is the last season for the Blizzcon qualifiers, and all the top streamers who want to participate have already qualified.
 
I

iirate

Member
Oh man, playing hunter right now just makes me feel bad. I needed 2 wins for a daily, so I put something together and gave it a shot.

Game 1 was against druid ramp, I played terribly and he played well, but I still ended up drawing 10 more cards than he did and just crushing him.

Game 2, fought a priest that just couldn't keep up with my early game and died.

I just started playing again a couple of days ago(played a bunch during beta, got burnt out around release), got to rank 10 with my druid deck without much difficulty honestly, but at least each match feels like it took some effort. I play 2 games with a frankly mediocre hunter deck(running River Crocs and Emperor Cobras due to not having Naxx stuff) that I was unfamiliar with and I just... win.
 
Haunted

Haunted

Member
Why aren't more people playing Unleash into Sea Giant? Seems pretty good. May be too situational, though. (trying to think of non-starving Hunter combos).
 
B

Bisnic

Really Really Exciting Member!
What's the best class for a newbie like me? I only want to play enough games to get the Hearthsteed mount for WoW but i'm losing too easily, it seems people all have great cards, while i'm stuck with shitty ones. I'm using the mage but she doesn't seem to be that good. That Fireblast spell is useless with its 1 damage compared to what i've seen from the other classes. And yes i played practice enough to get to lvl 10.
 
L

Leezard

Member
Bisnic said:
What's the best class for a newbie like me? I only want to play enough games to get the Hearthsteed mount for WoW but i'm losing too easily, it seems people all have great cards, while i'm stuck with shitty ones. I'm using the mage but she doesn't seem to be that good. That Fireblast spell is useless with its 1 damage compared to what i've seen from the other classes. And yes i played practice enough to get to lvl 10.
Click to expand...

The cheapest (in terms of dust) viable deck is Zoo. It's a warlock deck that focuses on cheap, good, creatures.
 
E

Emarv

Member
Yeah. I'd look up Warlock Zoo decklists and Trumps Free to Play Mage decklist. Those are probably the cheapest decks for beginners that are decently viable.
 
iNvid02

iNvid02

Member
went 11-0 but then crazy synergy hunter with 2 buzzards, uth, hyena took over the board drawing like 8 cards in the process. had a beserker so i didnt consecrate. the buzzard nerf will be so delicious.

feels good to finally get 12 though

m7UF27i.jpg


OJ1zXzc.jpg

+ spectral knight, stranglethorn tiger, ravenhold assassin, lay on hands
 
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