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Hearthstone |OT3| Preparing for the Ball of Spiders Meta

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Nirolak

Mrgrgr
So looking at the dragon cards released so far, it feels they want one of the classes that plays them to be Priest. However, so far the dragon archetype seems to be lacking linchpins that actually make it work, which makes me suspect some of the class cards (notably Priest, Druid, and Paladin haven't had any cards revealed yet) are dragon related.

Blackwing Technician (2/4 for 3, gains +1/+1 if you're holding a dragon): A 3/5 is going to trade very well with a lot of early game drops, and it has enough health so that the Priest hero power can keep it going.

Hungry Dragon (4, 5/6, summons a 1 mana creature for the enemy): Again, this is a strong value minion with enough damage to trade, and a lot of health so that it can be sustained by the Priest.

Dragonkin Sorcerer (4 mana, 3/5, gains +1/+1 per spell cast on it by the player): So the obvious buffs that go on to this card would be Power Word: Shield (making it a 4/8) or Velen's Chosen (making it a 6/10 with +1 spell damage).

It's also at least feasible to consider running Azure Drake and Twilight Drake in your hand, especially if you're using a lot of your mana to heal minions on the board instead of playing more cards.

Egg is the one that doesn't seem to fit especially well. Velen's Chosen would at least let it generate a lot of whelps, but that's 4 mana between the two, and one of the only cards that actually buffs the thing to usefulness. Even if we assume you're running two Defenders of Argus due to all the tanky minions, you're still likely to end up in situations where you only get one whelp out of it, not making it worthwhile.

However, I don't feel this is enough to actually make a deck work. While you have some good early value trading, you ultimately either need combos to make even that work, or you're betting a lot of healing mana on one minion that could get removed. You also have a large void getting to the 9 cost dragons, which generally aren't extremely strong game winners. The deck is essentially way too fair to actually get played in constructed only using what's revealed so far.
 
Egg is the one that doesn't seem to fit especially well. Velen's Chosen would at least let it generate a lot of whelps, but that's 4 mana between the two, and one of the only cards that actually buffs the thing to usefulness. Even if we assume you're running two Defenders of Argus due to all the tanky minions, you're still likely to end up in situations where you only get one whelp out of it, not making it worthwhile.
I feel like egg would be best in Warrior, feels like it'd work well with Taskmaster/Frothing Beserker. As some others have said, I feel like there another card coming out that's going to work with it. Also, considering Patron and Axe Flinger, taking damage and doing something seems to be a new mechanic idea that is being tested out. At this pint we only have enrage and card draw when damage is taken, so this widens up that idea a bit more.

As for Priest stuff, I agree that we need to see more before anything is decided. I've only been tooling around with a few different decks, so I'm not sure what it'd take. Maybe they could make the hero power free so if you can keep that minion alive, it'll help keep other minions alive.

If anything, I just hope it's interesting stuff. I'd like to see more cards like Gazlowe, but maybe not as strong. Something that makes each game unique.
 

squidyj

Member
This aggro cancer paladin is ridiculous, it's funny seeing mech mage play like a control deck. even when i'm getting rekt by ti.
 

ZealousD

Makes world leading predictions like "The sun will rise tomorrow"
So looking at the dragon cards released so far, it feels they want one of the classes that plays them to be Priest.

I still think Druid is most likely. Lots of dragons are high powered legendaries so being able to ramp into big threats makes a lot of sense. Plus there's a lot of potential Onyxia + Savage Roar synergy. You can innervate into a Blackwing Technication for a 3/5 on Turn 1. That's kind of like a Turn 1 Yeti but you don't need the coin, which is even more powerful. And Twilight Drake makes a lot of sense in Ramp Druid already. You can make a lot of swaps without messing with the Druid's game plan too badly.

Edit:

Something like this, maybe?

nFRBUfu.jpg


Alexstrasza and Ysera feel kinda eh... hopefully Nefarian fits a bit better. I feel like the deck could use maybe 1 or 2 more dragons.
 

squidyj

Member
Playing Savjz deck?

yeah, that's the one, although i saw something very similar credited to lifecoach earlier.

Mech Mage has been my hardest deck, going up against warriors I was really fearing the whirlwind but it never really came. goblin blastmage though, that card straight fucked me, especially when it's coming on top of the relative quickness of a mech mage deck.
 
For dragons, I am inclined to say priest druid and paladin, and maybe warrior will be the best classes to use them. At least I say that based on what we've seen so far. I think the technician fills paladin's curve pretty darn well.

For control I think hungry dragon will be pretty hot. For midrange, I think the dragonkin could actually work out. Will depend a lot on what the other cards are. Apparently the speculation is that 1 of the paladin cards will cost 5 mana due to an email that had a paladin color'd 5 mana card (everything else blocked).
 

Golgo 13

The Man With The Golden Dong
I really need to stop doing daily quests for classes I have no interest in playing. Bums me out, big time.
 

egruntz

shelaughz
I have no idea how you guys consistently get 7+ wins in arena. What the fuck are you guys doing?? I can't escape the bullshit RNG that goes on in arena and all the fucking fireballs. Nothing beats that. None of these draft sites help.
 

Papercuts

fired zero bullets in the orphanage.
I have no idea how you guys consistently get 7+ wins in arena. What the fuck are you guys doing?? I can't escape the bullshit RNG that goes on in arena and all the fucking fireballs. Nothing beats that. None of these draft sites help.

I feel like it got waaaay harder since GvG to be consistent. I still tend to get atleast 4 but it's really hard for me to get 8+ lately.
 

ZealousD

Makes world leading predictions like "The sun will rise tomorrow"
I have no idea how you guys consistently get 7+ wins in arena. What the fuck are you guys doing?? I can't escape the bullshit RNG that goes on in arena and all the fucking fireballs. Nothing beats that. None of these draft sites help.

I dunno man. I average 7 wins. I just watched some streamers for a bit. Arena is easy most of the time. Try to keep tempo. Play on curve. Make favorable trades. Most of my decks in arena are faster midrange decks. I try to aim for 5-6 of each of 2 drops, 3 drops, 4 drops, and 5+ drops, but I won't pick a bad card just because it's on curve.
 

squidyj

Member
My arenas have been quite bad of liate, finding it hard to break 6 wins so I've stopped playing because I want to save gold for BRM.

I have reasonable plays but time and again I get pushed off the board by opponents with massive tempo swing turns. and then I can't get it back. I just wind up with all sorts of shit draws and fall further and further behind.
 

Jenenser

Member
that corerager will be scary :/

the axflinger will alow some amazing combos if you can make it work :D
really interested in building a deck around him (including bombers and the likes)

anyone else thinks lava shock will be useless? alll i see is praise for this card... but i think its rather weak. :(
shame, shaman needs a buff.
 

Zemm

Member
I love BM'ing scumbag face hunters when I win, it's the only class I do it to. I usually emote 'well played' after every card they play.

I like to just sit there with lethal on board without doing anything until they concede.
 

Celegus

Member
Apparently I did a bad math and bursted a fatigue druid down to one health from 22 and I was terrified to press the end turn button. Tree of Life was indeed in his hand.
 

Zemm

Member
What a disgusting ending to the tournament lol

Edit: what a great ending haha, so good seeing face hunter get shit on like that
 

Special C

Member
I think I need to read up on how to play Control Warrior.

Do I play Armorsmith Turn 2 or Acolyte turn 3 on an empty board? Or do I wait until I can combo them?

Turn 3 with nothing else to do .Do I armor Up or do I go ahead and burn a Sheild Block for the draw?

Do I play Loetheb on turn 5 or save him?
 

ViviOggi

Member
I think I need to read up on how to play Control Warrior.

Do I play Armorsmith Turn 2 or Acolyte turn 3 on an empty board? Or do I wait until I can combo them?

Turn 3 with nothing else to do .Do I armor Up or do I go ahead and burn a Sheild Block for the draw?

Do I play Loetheb on turn 5 or save him?
Most of the time playing an Armorsmith/Acolyte on an empty board on turn 2/3 going first has no drawbacks, any other of these plays completely depends on the matchup and comes with experience, an in-depth guide helps of course. Just off the top of my head some things you should think about re: turn 3 Shield Block: how good is your hand, do you really need the draw? Do you to lose the armor over the next two turns (very likely vs aggro, less vs Priest or Druid)? Can you guarantee a Shield Slam that kills your opponent's strongest possible on-curve drop without the Block? Do you have a turn 4/coined 5 play planned out?
 

ZealousD

Makes world leading predictions like "The sun will rise tomorrow"
I think I need to read up on how to play Control Warrior.

Do I play Armorsmith Turn 2 or Acolyte turn 3 on an empty board? Or do I wait until I can combo them?

It depends on the matchup. When you're up against aggro or Paladin, it's not wrong to put them out there early. They can do work sniping 1 health minions. Especially something like armorsmith against face hunter. When you're up against another control deck you need to get as much value out of your cards as possible. Armorsmith and Acolyte don't threaten any minions on their own against control and they can be dealt with pretty easily. So you want to squeeze as much value out of them as possible. In the mirror for example, it's not uncommon for warriors to armor up for several turns without doing anything.

Turn 3 with nothing else to do .Do I armor Up or do I go ahead and burn a Sheild Block for the draw?

Depends on if you think you need it for the Shield Slam combo. This usually means saving it against control decks, using it against aggro decks, I think.

Do I play Loetheb on turn 5 or save him?

Depends on how bad your other plays are and how often your opponent uses spells. Against something like Oil Rogue I would keep it. Might be useful against Druid to disrupt their wombo combo but you're up against a Druid so you're probably going to lose anyway.
 

Joco

Member
I have no idea how you guys consistently get 7+ wins in arena. What the fuck are you guys doing?? I can't escape the bullshit RNG that goes on in arena and all the fucking fireballs. Nothing beats that. None of these draft sites help.

I feel the same completely. I've been trying to use Heartharena but I do about as well as if I had picked on my own. Most I usually get is 4, and have never done better than 6.

It's tough when all you get offered in the draft is common and rares and then there's always that opponent who got multiple legendaries.
 

ViviOggi

Member
It depends on the matchup. When you're up against aggro or Paladin, it's not wrong to put them out there early. They can do work sniping 1 health minions. Especially something like armorsmith against face hunter. When you're up against another control deck you need to get as much value out of your cards as possible. Armorsmith and Acolyte don't threaten any minions on their own against control and they can be dealt with pretty easily. So you want to squeeze as much value out of them as possible. In the mirror for example, it's not uncommon for warriors to armor up for several turns without doing anything.


Depends on how bad your other plays are and how often your opponent uses spells. Against something like Oil Rogue I would keep it. Might be useful against Druid to disrupt their wombo combo but you're up against a Druid so you're probably going to lose anyway.
In the CW mirror there are two equally valid lines of play, armoring up or pressuring with Armorsmith/Acolyte+Taskmaster. I prefer the latter if my hand allows it since a turn 2 Armorsmith cannot immediately be answered with weapons and together with Taskmaster lets you shred their armor early. Also baits a Shield Slam more often than you'd think because the average CW is fucking awful.

Loatheb you always keep against Freeze Mage, no exceptions. Against Oil Rogue and Druid it's nice to keep it if you can like you said but if you don't have a second 5-drop you should generally use him to build your board.
 

iirate

Member
I feel the same completely. I've been trying to use Heartharena but I do about as well as if I had picked on my own. Most I usually get is 4, and have never done better than 6.

It's tough when all you get offered in the draft is common and rares and then there's always that opponent who got multiple legendaries.

Rares are typically amazing in arena though and legendary picks can be pretty bad. Epics are on average worse than rares, too. ZealousD's advice earlier on this page is pretty spot-on. I came back to arenas three months ago, was sitting just under 3 wins/run for a while, but I'm averaging ~6 wins/run at this point.

Tempo is extremely important. A lot of bad looking 1 drops can be totally fine picks(Elven Archer, Abusive Sergeant, Young Priestess, Voodoo Doctor, even Stonetusk Boar). Minions that give you another minion(or card) typically run from good to great(Murloc Tidehunter is by far the worst of these, Silver Hand Knight is amazing, even Gnomish Experimenter/Novice Engineer count as a pretty good picks). Don't neglect your late game. You need the early 2 drops and such to get there, but your later drops are usually pretty instrumental to actually closing out the match. Also, synergies matter. You can't count on them, but you should always keep an eye out for even small interactions. If you're not used to this, then Heartharena can be a huge help here.

You will occasionally lose to a crazy legendary or combo. It happens, but even in those situations, it's always better to focus on what you can do better than the things you can't control. If you focus on becoming a better player rather than how lucky your opponent's are(or how unlucky you are), you absolutely will improve your record substantially. Infinite arena players do as well as they do because they are really experienced and play smarter than those with weaker records, not because they're lucky.
 

Special C

Member
In the CW mirror there are two equally valid lines of play, armoring up or pressuring with Armorsmith/Acolyte+Taskmaster. I prefer the latter if my hand allows it since a turn 2 Armorsmith cannot immediately be answered with weapons and together with Taskmaster lets you shred their armor early. Also baits a Shield Slam more often than you'd think because the average CW is fucking awful.

Loatheb you always keep against Freeze Mage, no exceptions. Against Oil Rogue and Druid it's nice to keep it if you can like you said but if you don't have a second 5-drop you should generally use him to build your board.

It depends on the matchup. When you're up against aggro or Paladin, it's not wrong to put them out there early. They can do work sniping 1 health minions. Especially something like armorsmith against face hunter. When you're up against another control deck you need to get as much value out of your cards as possible. Armorsmith and Acolyte don't threaten any minions on their own against control and they can be dealt with pretty easily. So you want to squeeze as much value out of them as possible. In the mirror for example, it's not uncommon for warriors to armor up for several turns without doing anything.



Depends on if you think you need it for the Shield Slam combo. This usually means saving it against control decks, using it against aggro decks, I think.



Depends on how bad your other plays are and how often your opponent uses spells. Against something like Oil Rogue I would keep it. Might be useful against Druid to disrupt their wombo combo but you're up against a Druid so you're probably going to lose anyway.

Most of the time playing an Armorsmith/Acolyte on an empty board on turn 2/3 going first has no drawbacks, any other of these plays completely depends on the matchup and comes with experience, an in-depth guide helps of course. Just off the top of my head some things you should think about re: turn 3 Shield Block: how good is your hand, do you really need the draw? Do you to lose the armor over the next two turns (very likely vs aggro, less vs Priest or Druid)? Can you guarantee a Shield Slam that kills your opponent's strongest possible on-curve drop without the Block? Do you have a turn 4/coined 5 play planned out?

Good info all around. Thanks.
 

CoolOff

Member
Tempo is extremely important. A lot of bad looking 1 drops can be totally fine picks(Elven Archer, Abusive Sergeant, Young Priestess, Voodoo Doctor, even Stonetusk Boar). Minions that give you another minion(or card) typically run from good to great(Murloc Tidehunter is by far the worst of these, Silver Hand Knight is amazing, even Gnomish Experimenter/Novice Engineer count as a pretty good picks). Don't neglect your late game. You need the early 2 drops and such to get there, but your later drops are usually pretty instrumental to actually closing out the match. Also, synergies matter. You can't count on them, but you should always keep an eye out for even small interactions. If you're not used to this, then Heartharena can be a huge help here.

I've really come to like Gnomish Experimenter actually. For a card that has like a 25-30% chance of just cycling it's really, really good, and 4 mana for a 3/2 and a 1/1 isn't horrible either.
 
so, the druid card 'wrath'

seems like the 1 damage draw is just there to tempt you away from making the correct decision of going with the 3 damage to minion, which druid really, really lacks
 

jblank83

Member
So many Turd Hunters today. All 1 health and charge minions. All face always.

I guess this is the thing now? Wolfriders, Arcane Golem, Leper Gnome, etc?
 
I absolutely loathe that 8/8 card that instantly attacks at the end of an enemy's turn, and the one that brings back to life destroyed minions of the same turn.
 
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