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Hearthstone |OT3| Preparing for the Ball of Spiders Meta

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Copenap

Member
I feel like people who say Miracle Rogue/Freeze Mage don't interact with board have never played them at all, or at least properly. Decks like these take so much more skill compared to decks where you just play your highest mana playable card and take favorable trades/go face. But as usual Blizzard just wants to encourage brainless gameplay by putting out sticky higher powered low mana minions with zero downsides for playing them. Only deck that punishes that is grim patron warrior.
I don't think Jakku meant to critizise Freeze Mage and Miracle Rogue, he just stated Blizzards comment on why they nerved them (though Freeze Mage has made its way back).

And these decks can be annoying to play against because if they draw perfectly you are powerless to do anything. Now other decks are annoying as well and I personally like playing Freeze Mage and loved Miracle Rogue myself but I can see why Blizz would think like that eventhough I don't agree with them. What I really don't get though is why they think lots of Aggro decks are fun.

Edit @zoukka: I also never saw the arguement that these decks don't involve skill, it was never about that.
 

Forkball

Member
yeah, the game has been growing but if Blizzard expects people still to pay through the nose for classic sets in a year or so, while there are overwhelming number of other cards and 25 bucks adventure sets and there is a huge gap between existing players and new ones, yeah it's not going to grow much more than that. It will be interesting how they will handle it. I don't think it will remain the same.

People will naturally start with the classic set though since Blizzard pushes you to collect those cards via achievement drops. I recently got back into the game after not playing for about a year and a half, and I agree it can be overwhelming even though I've had some experience with the game. If you want all the single player adventure content, you gotta drop $50. However, that content is really there for people who have moved far beyond working with the classic deck and want to experiment more with new cards. Why should I buy Naxxramus or Blackrock when there are so many Classic and GvG cards I'm missing? The answer is I shouldn't because I'm not at a high enough level where using those cards will be beneficial. That content isn't geared toward new players, but for veterans who have been playing this nearly every day since beta.

I do agree that they should have better overall rewards. They give you some gold, dust, and packs starting off, but eventually there will be a content dearth as you are lucky to make 60 gold a day, and that's if you play every day. I would like to see actual card drops, and just the basic soulbound card drops you get leveling up that makes it possible for you to even have a 30 card deck in the first place. In Dota 2, you get a free item every time you level up. You typically average a random drop per level in addition to that. So basically every time you level up, you get at least two items. This encourages people to play more and therefore spend money since not every item is on the drop table. They could have a system where every time you level up a hero, you get a random card drop (not soulbound). It will most likely be a common, but also has a small chance of dropping rarer cards. For new players, it allows them to build their deck quicker, and therefore more eager to jump into the other (paid) content. For players who have tons of card... hey, free dust. Maybe one card per level is a bit too much, but they could follow a similar system to what they have now in regards to the soulbound and golden soulbound cards.

Also, there's really no reason to get Legend status, or any status above twenty, in Ranked. What's the difference between someone who is 19 and someone who is 9? The person at ranked 9 has the exact same reward as the person at rank 19, which is nothing. Blizzard could certainly incentivize climbing the ladder more outside of the thrill of competition.

tl;dr gimme cards
 

Jakku

Member
They just never played those decks and assume they are easy to play. Ignorance breeds stupid posts what do you know!

I've watched hours and hours of Freeze Mage and Miracle Rogue being streamed and played them myself and I said literally nothing about ease of use, stop putting words in to my mouth.

I was talking about Blizzard's philosophy and why Miracle Rogue's trump card, Leeroy, was toned down.
 

ViviOggi

Member
This is wrong. I did not say you lose if they draw perfectly. You just can't do shit. A perfect freeze mage means you will literally never attack with a single minion during the whole game.
Eh even if you draw all of your cc early you still have to space it out while you try drawing into your burn
 

Ashodin

Member
I agree that the rewards will be terrible up to downright abysmal the more cards are out. The casual player will have no hope of collecting what he needs outside of whaling out the cards, as you can't buy them outright.
 

zoukka

Member
This is wrong. I did not say you lose if they draw perfectly. You just can't do shit. A perfect freeze mage means you will literally never attack with a single minion during the whole game.

This make no sense. If any deck draws "perfectly" as in a perfect card for every situation, they win 99% of the time. This applies to all decks, not just control decks. Zoo, Hunter, you name it.

I've watched hours and hours of Freeze Mage and Miracle Rogue being streamed and played them myself and I said literally nothing about ease of use, stop putting words in to my mouth.

I was talking about Blizzard's philosophy and why Miracle Rogue's trump card, Leeroy, was toned down.

Miracle Rogue was solitaire, Blizzard wants Hearthstone to be about minion trading and interactions.

You said the deck played like solitaire. which natutally implied that it has no interaction with the opponent. Your own words buddy.
 

Copenap

Member
This make no sense. If any deck draws "perfectly" as in a perfect card for every situation, they win 99% of the time. This applies to all decks, not just control decks. Zoo, Hunter, you name it.


You said the deck played like solitaire. which natutally implied that it has no interaction with the opponent. Your own words buddy.
You didn't read properly again. I specifically said it's not about winning.

Also no interaction doesn't mean no skill, you are jumping to conclusions and you are not engaging with any arguements. I'm out...
 

FeD.nL

Member
This make no sense. If any deck draws "perfectly" as in a perfect card for every situation, they win 99% of the time. This applies to all decks, not just control decks. Zoo, Hunter, you name it.





You said the deck played like solitaire. which natutally implied that it has no interaction with the opponent. Your own words buddy.

100% agree. Except his reasoning for it has some bit of logic to it. Fighting against a perfectly drawn freeze mage might make the opponent feel like a spectator as opposed to the same opponent fighting a face hunter where he at least gets to point and click even though he loses just as badly.
 

Jakku

Member
You said the deck played like solitaire. which natutally implied that it has no interaction with the opponent. Your own words buddy.

Nothing to do with ease of use, again. Please read before you write things with a silly high and mighty tone. My own words, for the philosophy Blizzard is taking, and below is their reasoning for nerfing Leeroy in their exact words.

"Leeroy Jenkins created a strategy that revolved around trying to defeat your opponent in one turn without requiring any cards on the board. Fighting for board control and battles between minions make an overall game of Hearthstone more fun and compelling, but taking 20+ damage in one turn is not particularly fun or interactive."

Not interactive, not what they want, and you claim it is when they literally said it isn't themselves? You called me ignorant and stupid, and you're not even reading what we're saying properly. It's absurd, and I'm out as well.
 

zoukka

Member
Man I hated Destiny back in the day. The most annoying streamer ever.

You didn't read properly again. I specifically said it's not about winning.

Also no interaction doesn't mean no skill, you are jumping to conclusions and you are not engaging with any arguements. I'm out...

But like other posters have said there is interaction with freeze mage and miracoli! But keep ignoring that argument and stay out if you like.

Nothing to do with ease of use, again. Please read before you write things with a silly high and mighty tone. My own words, for the philosophy Blizzard is taking, and below is their reasoning for nerfing Leeroy in their exact words.

"Leeroy Jenkins created a strategy that revolved around trying to defeat your opponent in one turn without requiring any cards on the board. Fighting for board control and battles between minions make an overall game of Hearthstone more fun and compelling, but taking 20+ damage in one turn is not particularly fun or interactive."

Not interactive, not what they want, and you claim it is when they literally said it isn't themselves? You called me ignorant and stupid, and you're not even reading what we're saying properly. It's absurd, and I'm out as well.

I know Blizzs policy which is why I didn't want to start arguing about it at all. I specifically targeted your "solitaire" comment which heavily implies that the miracle/freeze player plays alone without caring about the opponent until they dish lethal damage (which is wrong since they have to interact with their opponents almost every turn if they want to live to see the combo).

It's too bad plebs can't see that and think that only minion trading is "interaction".
 

Copenap

Member
It's incredible how incapable you are of comprehending anything that is going on in this discussion and yet here I am replying again, damnit...
 

Dahbomb

Member
I would like to see these matches where no minion gets to attack a Freeze Mage for the whole game. At the most a Freeze Mage can have 6 AOE freeze spells and most competitive decks don't have that many.

Freeze Mage is one of my favorite decks to play against ESPECIALLY if I have Loatheb + Kezan in my deck.
 

Opiate

Member
I would like to see these matches where no minion gets to attack a Freeze Mage for the whole game. At the most a Freeze Mage can have 6 AOE freeze spells and most competitive decks don't have that many.

Freeze Mage is one of my favorite decks to play against ESPECIALLY if I have Loatheb + Kezan in my deck.

What are the 6 you're thinking of?
 

embalm

Member
It's very possible to have a freeze mage match where you don't get attacked at all. It's rare, but it happens especially against a Priests who have removal or situational cards.

The deck has:
2 Frost Nova
2 Blizzard
0-2 Cone of Cold
0-2 explosive sheeps.
1-2 Flamestrikes.
2 Doomsayers.

With the right draw you can play those out, keeping the board clear and DS prevents your opponent from playing new minions, play your Thaurissan, and win the game with spells to the face by turn 8.

I would call those games pretty darn perfect.
 

FeD.nL

Member
It's indeed very rare, i've had one game with Echo mage where i've let only one attack happen by my opponent but that where pretty much perfect draws from my side against a pretty passive (i think) handlock could've been malylock. I think a full one freeze mage wouldn't have let one attack happen.
 

Dahbomb

Member
Trump lost that game by not using Dark Bomb on the face.

Maybe not though... maybe Lifecoach couldv'e gotten enough armor gain back from the Armorsmith.
 

Rapstah

Member
Trump lost that game by not using Dark Bomb on the face.

Maybe not though... maybe Lifecoach couldv'e gotten enough armor gain back from the Armorsmith.

He was at 2 HP after getting all the armour he could get and swinging, so doing 3 to face would have made the swing impossible.
 

Danj

Member
I'm looking for a deck to help me rank up a bit before the end of the season. So far this is the best one I can find with the cards I have.

How can I improve it? I don't have any of:

Alexstrasza
Archmage Antonidas
Big Game Hunter
Ragnaros the Firelord
Sylvanas Windrunner

(among others)
 
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