Can't wait to playtest with all these dragons. I don't know how well they are going to play, but it's going to be a lot of fun watching the meta fluctuate a ton. I started playing after GvG was well entrenched so this will be my first time being able to watch the community figure out these new cards and optimize their decks. I know I'll be redoing all my decks with new cards and seeing what sticks. I'm most excited to retool my druid and warrior decks, looking at the announced cards. I'm still really hopeful that druid gets better class cards than were introduced in GvG and Naxx.
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Hearthstone |OT3| Preparing for the Ball of Spiders Meta
- Thread starter ZealousD
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FormallyFamicom
Member
Draknoid Crusher could be amazing in arena. Essentially a 6 mana giant as a finishing threat. Except it's a common!
Mobius and pet octopus
Member
Nefarian
I was talking to my brother, who recently got back into the game, about nefarian and he thinks it costs 1 too much. Because compared to Dr. Boom he brings less stats to the board. It is hard to argue against that, lol.
If you go by dr. boom's metric since that brings 9/9 stats to the board for 7 mana. This brings less stats, less immediacy, and the battlecry, while good, is gonna depend on the chances of getting good cards vs bad cards for your deck from your opponent's class. It is also much more vulnerable to BGH. Sort of like a neutral neptulon/thoughtsteal/unstable portal mash up.
It is definitely a card I want to play, but not because it seems like it is too good to not play. I want to try this guy out in a rogue control deck with gallywix, and just hoard all the spells and play them below cost with prep.
What is the best spell for rogue to steal, in the entire game? A fireball maybe? Flamestrike? Some crazy board clear? Rockbiter for blade flurry (second thought rockbiter doesn't add to blade flurry damage)? Maybe I'll get a thoughtsteal so I can steal a second nefarian!
I was talking to my brother, who recently got back into the game, about nefarian and he thinks it costs 1 too much. Because compared to Dr. Boom he brings less stats to the board. It is hard to argue against that, lol.
If you go by dr. boom's metric since that brings 9/9 stats to the board for 7 mana. This brings less stats, less immediacy, and the battlecry, while good, is gonna depend on the chances of getting good cards vs bad cards for your deck from your opponent's class. It is also much more vulnerable to BGH. Sort of like a neutral neptulon/thoughtsteal/unstable portal mash up.
It is definitely a card I want to play, but not because it seems like it is too good to not play. I want to try this guy out in a rogue control deck with gallywix, and just hoard all the spells and play them below cost with prep.
What is the best spell for rogue to steal, in the entire game? A fireball maybe? Flamestrike? Some crazy board clear? Rockbiter for blade flurry (second thought rockbiter doesn't add to blade flurry damage)? Maybe I'll get a thoughtsteal so I can steal a second nefarian!
I wonder if there'll be any Deathrattle cards this expansion at all. They really seem to want to use their new "when this minion takes damage" effect instead, which is cool, except there are more cool Deathrattle synergies than there are cool ways to deal one damage to all your own minions. I guess that's the point.
Anyone got any recommendations for a deck that can beat Maexxna? I searched on Hearthpwn but the decks there are either all intended for Heroic mode, or cost more dust than I have, or they simply don't work for me at all. I have tried this, this and this (sort of, had to sub a couple of other cards in there).
Polymorph ( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°)
Super Nothing
Member
It sucks compared to other 6 drops, but the idea is to play it way before then. You can get a bunch of cheap tokens on board early (particularly with Paladin), and then trade them into the other player's board to get a 6/4 for cheap and maybe even play another card. It sucks if you look at it strictly as a 6 drop, but if you can regularly create situations to get it out for 2 or 3 mana and with another card in the same turn, it could be really good. Paladin would probably be the best bet for this with Muster and hero power.
Volcanic Drake - Similar to Dragon's Breath only a body instead of a spell. As Kibler said when reviewing DB, cost reduction mechanics are traditionally some of the most powerful effects in a TCG, so I can see this dragon being a lot better than it initially appears. The 4-health keeps it from being totally OP, but I do think it will find a place in a deck or two built to take advantage of its condition.
Drakonid Crusher - Don't know where this guy will fit in exactly. 9/9 for 6 sounds super scary but how often will you get that on turn six? Maybe as face hunter, but this card is just too slow to fit into a face hunter deck. And if you are playing him later than that, you'd likely want to play a big body that offers more than just raw stats (Dr. Boom, Rag, Tirion, etc.) He is a dragon though, so maybe he finds a place in a dragon deck as a one-of just to fill out the dragon ranks. And he seems like he could be very strong in arena.
Nefarian - Unfortunate, but this one seems destined to be a gimmick card. Too much variance in the spells you could get (there are a lot of shitty ones) and at 9 mana you want something much more consistently powerful. Should make for some hilarious Trolden vids though.
Drakonid Crusher - Don't know where this guy will fit in exactly. 9/9 for 6 sounds super scary but how often will you get that on turn six? Maybe as face hunter, but this card is just too slow to fit into a face hunter deck. And if you are playing him later than that, you'd likely want to play a big body that offers more than just raw stats (Dr. Boom, Rag, Tirion, etc.) He is a dragon though, so maybe he finds a place in a dragon deck as a one-of just to fill out the dragon ranks. And he seems like he could be very strong in arena.
Nefarian - Unfortunate, but this one seems destined to be a gimmick card. Too much variance in the spells you could get (there are a lot of shitty ones) and at 9 mana you want something much more consistently powerful. Should make for some hilarious Trolden vids though.
With Boom as a baseline Nefarian could easily be a 7-drop as well tbh
BigJonsson
Member
Feels good beating decks with more than 2 non-Naxx legendaries......
Mobius and pet octopus
Member
Drakonid Crusher
Now that my brain is awake, I don't think this is a really good card. Lets set aside the BGH issue atm.
This is the definition of a win more card. You need your opponent below 15 hp. Now I guess this might have some extra "special"-ness against armor classes because armor won't bring your opponent out of drakonid crusher range. But basically this card is like sea giant in zoolock... mainly usable when your opponent is losing but... and this is the lynchypin on why it isn't good... it is also an opportunity for your opponent to make a comeback to get back into the game.
In summary, this card is a win more condition that gives your opponent a chance to make a comeback.
Granted, in the long run having 1 less hard removal or BGH could mean you win in the long term scenarios. Forcing them to have an answer can also just outright win you the game seeing as 9 damage on an opponent who is at 15 or less is certainly gonna win the game 9/10 times.
Is it terrible? Maybe not, I don't think I'm ready to really judge whether this card is terrible or not. It is a 6/6 for 6, so only slightly weaker than boulderfist ogre when not activated. It is also a dragon so it really only trades 1 stat for dragon status, which could be something useful in a dragon based deck for a 6 mana slot dragon (although we do have another now).
Now that my brain is awake, I don't think this is a really good card. Lets set aside the BGH issue atm.
I don't think BGH is an issue in general.
In summary, this card is a win more condition that gives your opponent a chance to make a comeback.
Granted, in the long run having 1 less hard removal or BGH could mean you win in the long term scenarios. Forcing them to have an answer can also just outright win you the game seeing as 9 damage on an opponent who is at 15 or less is certainly gonna win the game 9/10 times.
Is it terrible? Maybe not, I don't think I'm ready to really judge whether this card is terrible or not. It is a 6/6 for 6, so only slightly weaker than boulderfist ogre when not activated. It is also a dragon so it really only trades 1 stat for dragon status, which could be something useful in a dragon based deck for a 6 mana slot dragon (although we do have another now).
Seems to me that the problem with these "cost (1) less for every minion that died this turn" cards is that the mana-efficiency they potentially offer is mostly valuable for faster decks, but those faster decks are also really worried about not being able to maximize mana use every turn.
Like, a control deck doesn't care that much that it can pull off a combo and get out a 3 mana 6/4 or can pay 2-3 mana for 4 damage after Doomsayer clears the board. Control decks would prefer to just pay the full 6 mana for a 6/4 with piloted sky golem's deathrattle.
Faster decks would really like to be able to get out a 3 mana 6/4, but they don't want to get stuck with a 6 mana card in their hand on turn 5. Lost Tallstrider is just much more reliable. And of course if three minions are dying then Flesheating Ghoul ends up a 5/3 who's always 3 mana (and can keep growing). In general I feel like Cult Master is a better card if you're banking on being able to trade in a bunch of your own minions, and it's hard to count on being able to kill a bunch of enemy minions relatively early in the game.
I think these cards would be a lot more interesting if they counted minions that died during your opponent's last turn, and more suited to the control-y style the dragons seem to be going for.
Drakonid Crusher is an insta-pick in Arena, though.
Like, a control deck doesn't care that much that it can pull off a combo and get out a 3 mana 6/4 or can pay 2-3 mana for 4 damage after Doomsayer clears the board. Control decks would prefer to just pay the full 6 mana for a 6/4 with piloted sky golem's deathrattle.
Faster decks would really like to be able to get out a 3 mana 6/4, but they don't want to get stuck with a 6 mana card in their hand on turn 5. Lost Tallstrider is just much more reliable. And of course if three minions are dying then Flesheating Ghoul ends up a 5/3 who's always 3 mana (and can keep growing). In general I feel like Cult Master is a better card if you're banking on being able to trade in a bunch of your own minions, and it's hard to count on being able to kill a bunch of enemy minions relatively early in the game.
I think these cards would be a lot more interesting if they counted minions that died during your opponent's last turn, and more suited to the control-y style the dragons seem to be going for.
Drakonid Crusher is an insta-pick in Arena, though.
Mobius and pet octopus
Member
Volcanic Drake
I think this is a very interesting card. Card cost reduction mechanics play an important role in several decks already (innervate/prep being two major players).
At first glance it looks like a win-more card. It is a tempo based card for sure, because you want to be the one making trades (thus requiring you to have initiative - thus winning more than losing in most cases). However, as I wrote this post I came to conclude it can also be an amazing swing card, for when you clear board and need to grab board with a strong minion.
The typical turn 4 play is rather underwhelming. On an even trade, 1-1 trade with 2 minions dying, you can play this for 4 mana. You get a 6/4... only 1 stat higher than vanilla and probably the stat that least matters for that period of play.
You'll probably want to play this guy for 3 mana or less then, ideally at least. Because 10 stats for 3 mana is really good (normally 7 stats max).
But where it really shines is the board clear + development play (swing turn). I mentioned earlier in the thread that teamed up with wild pyro you could get a whole board clear plus a 4-5 stat minion on board for about 6 mana. I think that is great. This will definitely find its way into my control dragon paladin deck, at least to see if it works or not.
I think it also deserves special mentioning that this is a dragon you don't necessarily mind holding onto if you plan on getting him out on board for a really low cost. He isn't really a card you need to play on or before 6 mana, he is a card you play when you get that massive board clear but have few mana to play anything (except now you'll sometimes play a 6/4 which could be huge). Since you might hold onto this dragon, that enables him to buff your "hold a dragon" mechanic cards.
I think this is a very interesting card. Card cost reduction mechanics play an important role in several decks already (innervate/prep being two major players).
At first glance it looks like a win-more card. It is a tempo based card for sure, because you want to be the one making trades (thus requiring you to have initiative - thus winning more than losing in most cases). However, as I wrote this post I came to conclude it can also be an amazing swing card, for when you clear board and need to grab board with a strong minion.
The typical turn 4 play is rather underwhelming. On an even trade, 1-1 trade with 2 minions dying, you can play this for 4 mana. You get a 6/4... only 1 stat higher than vanilla and probably the stat that least matters for that period of play.
You'll probably want to play this guy for 3 mana or less then, ideally at least. Because 10 stats for 3 mana is really good (normally 7 stats max).
But where it really shines is the board clear + development play (swing turn). I mentioned earlier in the thread that teamed up with wild pyro you could get a whole board clear plus a 4-5 stat minion on board for about 6 mana. I think that is great. This will definitely find its way into my control dragon paladin deck, at least to see if it works or not.
I think it also deserves special mentioning that this is a dragon you don't necessarily mind holding onto if you plan on getting him out on board for a really low cost. He isn't really a card you need to play on or before 6 mana, he is a card you play when you get that massive board clear but have few mana to play anything (except now you'll sometimes play a 6/4 which could be huge). Since you might hold onto this dragon, that enables him to buff your "hold a dragon" mechanic cards.
poppedcollar69
Member
just had the most skin of my teeth victory ever
lay on hands and 2 truesilver just BARELY keeping me away from being killed, then my rag takes out minions 2 turns in a row, and then the enemy rag misses both my face and my rag
whew
lay on hands and 2 truesilver just BARELY keeping me away from being killed, then my rag takes out minions 2 turns in a row, and then the enemy rag misses both my face and my rag
whew
Nefarian is pretty good in a control vs control match when there aren't many minion on boards and the game is pretty even. Getting a card advantage over your opponent can be key to winning the game.
Most people have strong spells in their decks, you will only really get "bad" spells if you steal from a Rogue or a Warrior (weapon cards or shield based card like Shield Slam).
You can see it as a Thoughtsteal (3 mana card) with a 8/8 body. That means it's a 6 mana minion that comes with Thoughtsteal. In that sense a 8/8 body doesn't look that bad at all! The real problem is of course BGH!
So it's not a bad card just slow and doesn't fit in the current meta of aggression + BGHs.
Most people have strong spells in their decks, you will only really get "bad" spells if you steal from a Rogue or a Warrior (weapon cards or shield based card like Shield Slam).
You can see it as a Thoughtsteal (3 mana card) with a 8/8 body. That means it's a 6 mana minion that comes with Thoughtsteal. In that sense a 8/8 body doesn't look that bad at all! The real problem is of course BGH!
So it's not a bad card just slow and doesn't fit in the current meta of aggression + BGHs.
BananasWithGuns
Member
It doesn't steal from the opponent's deck though from my understanding. Seems like you have a chance to get any spell from that class. So you could end up with stuff that's never run as well, like Totemic Might or something.
It doesn't pull from the opponents deck but rather the whole pool of spell cards for their class. So you may get shit like Sense Demons, Bestial Wrath, Arcane Explosion, Eye for an Eye, etc.
Oh fuck I read it wrong then...
Nevermind the card isn't that good then. A lot of shitty potential spells you can get.
And another example of Dr. Balanced being very fair and very balanced.
Nevermind the card isn't that good then. A lot of shitty potential spells you can get.
And another example of Dr. Balanced being very fair and very balanced.
I feel like there are fewer combos like this than the chance of getting something that doesn't do anything at the stage of the game where Nefarian is played, or something that just kills Nefarian, looking at the list.
RumblingRosco
Member
Link please! I need something to cause me to focus more on my work.
Oh, for sure. But it's no fun to think of the duds that you'd get out of it!
Mobius and pet octopus
Member
So it turns out they had to cut the stream short but reynad beat xixo 3-1. I caught all but one of the matches they streamed (they didn't stream the last) and 2/3 matches I did watch were great til I came to face hunter vs face hunter where xixo won due to double kill command. Face hunters =/
Welcome to the club! 12 wins is still an impressive achievement even with a strong deck. Did you get some good rewards?
Super Nothing
Member
Unless Blizzard introduces dual classes into Hearthstone, none of these are possible. You pull the spells from your opponent's class, so you can't mix and match powerful spells from different classes. Probably the best thing you could pull would be Force of Nature + Savage Roar or double Fireball, but you could just as easily pull Moonfire + Poison Seeds or Arcane Missles + Arcane Blast.
Mobius and pet octopus
Member
I took a big break from hearthstone (lol like not even a week), so whats the meta like? Heavy face hunter/mech mage still?
The class you are playing as plus the class you are playing against? The only class that could mix their spells with others before this was Priest. Now any combo is technically possible.
homeworkfilms
Member
A hunter just mad bombered me at rank 2 if that helps at all..... WTF is going on...
call_kotaku
Member
Getting both Dr.Balanced and Ragnaros in the same arena run made me feel dirty as fuck
though to be honest my 3 water elementals and 2 flamestrikes did most of the work
though to be honest my 3 water elementals and 2 flamestrikes did most of the work
Around rank 5 EU I've hardly seen any Mech Mages, there's beem a bunch of Tempo and Value Mages, Priests, some Face Hunters, Druids and Warriors. Handfuls of Handlock, Shaman and Midrange Hunter.
Thanks! I got some gold, a golden mechanical yeti and a shitty pack like usual, eh. but I feel so satisited anyway.
Super Nothing
Member
Ah, I read the question as, "What are the most powerful combos Nefarian could draw." I see what you mean, now. Probably Prep + Force + Savage Roar + Prep + Sharpsword Oil + Blade Flurry if you want to go full ridiculous.
Mobius and pet octopus
Member
Usually when the meta gets varied people tend to go back to their aggro decks cause they prefer simple.
Officerrob
Banned
That should be enterta.... zzzz
homeworkfilms
Member
Just had a mage Toshley and Cenarius out of his two portals. Like come on...
Mobius and pet octopus
Member
Haha holy shit.
I had a pretty good curve into KT in paladin (me) vs druid:
turn 6 I BK his sludge belcher kill off second half with shredder. Turn 7 I loatheb hero power, kill his keeper he used to kill the shredder.
Then he dr. booms, falling right into my trap. Without even thinking about it since it had been my plan all along to KT on turn 8, run both loatheb and BK into dr. boom, kill off a bot with my recruit, and hero power.
His response: "well played", concede (I imagine he WP'd cause I have him squelched).
I had a pretty good curve into KT in paladin (me) vs druid:
turn 6 I BK his sludge belcher kill off second half with shredder. Turn 7 I loatheb hero power, kill his keeper he used to kill the shredder.
Then he dr. booms, falling right into my trap. Without even thinking about it since it had been my plan all along to KT on turn 8, run both loatheb and BK into dr. boom, kill off a bot with my recruit, and hero power.
His response: "well played", concede (I imagine he WP'd cause I have him squelched).
daemissary
Member
I've actually been experimenting with Mad Bomber in decks...it can really wreck Face Hunter and Paladin with all of their 1 health minions.
TetraxShards
Member
Got absolutely rekt playing against a Druid with Randuin Wrynn.
Turn 1:
Mind Vision - get Ysera
He plays Innervate -> Alarm-O-Bot
Alarm O Bot gets DEATHWING
Turn 2:
Have nothing, play Shadowboxer, eat 12 to the face
He plays Alarm-O-Bot again
Gets KEL'THUZAD
Turn 3:
Thoughtsteal - get Onyxia and Dr. Balance
Plays Alarm-O-Bot, doesn't matter because 18 damage means I'm dead
I couldn't help but laugh. I've never been so throughly rekt. Well fucking played, whoever that Druid player was.
I made up for it the next game by getting three Tirions in my hand at one point (one each from my two Thoughsteals, then got another one from a Mind Vision). I can't wait to add Nefarian to this deck.
Turn 1:
Mind Vision - get Ysera
He plays Innervate -> Alarm-O-Bot
Alarm O Bot gets DEATHWING
Turn 2:
Have nothing, play Shadowboxer, eat 12 to the face
He plays Alarm-O-Bot again
Gets KEL'THUZAD
Turn 3:
Thoughtsteal - get Onyxia and Dr. Balance
Plays Alarm-O-Bot, doesn't matter because 18 damage means I'm dead
I couldn't help but laugh. I've never been so throughly rekt. Well fucking played, whoever that Druid player was.
I made up for it the next game by getting three Tirions in my hand at one point (one each from my two Thoughsteals, then got another one from a Mind Vision). I can't wait to add Nefarian to this deck.
I think he has roped on every single turn.
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