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[Mobius and pet octopus]

I just had a holy shit intense match up vs a druid. I was fighting for my life for like 5+ turns straight. He had to have had combo from very early on after he double ancient'd of lore and went face with his first one instead of trading. I got lucky as fuck as a knife juggler popped from my shredder, the first knife killed the 5/1 lore, and the second one brought it into truesilver champion range.

After that he kept spamming the board with minions, and then harrison'd my 3 durability hammer, so he was chock full of minions and 100% had to have the combo.

I somehow managed to hover just out of combo range several turns, and his last huge threat was sylvanas and I had already used my owl. 50/50 chance for his sylvanas to steal a 1/1 or a 3/3. It stole the 1/1 and my 3/3 killed the 1/1, and I played KT to get everything back. At this point he already was forced to use 1 savage roar and was out of cards. So without the ability to play remove my threats, I won.

Several turns you have to know when to pressure his hp otherwise he'll eventually get the combo off via a shade + combo next turn. But the right amount of pressure made him push the shade out of stealth earlier than he could combo.

 

[thepotatoman]

On an empty/almost empty board he is a whole turn faster than KT.
KT doesn't do anything unltil you play another creature and until that creature gets destroyed.

You could play KT on an empty board and play a good taunt the next turn and have it be equally as fast even in that situation.

 

[JesseZao]

EDIT: Not much discussion on Twilight Whelp. I'm seriously scared of this card. It's pretty beastly.

I'm not sold yet. I'll try it out, but it'll take some new mulligan strategies to use it optimally.

On the surface, I like the reliable chow, but I don't know what my dragon priest deck will end up looking like,

 

[call_kotaku]

I admire the Hearthstone team not giving a shit about balance just to introduce cool effects and crazy strong cards as soon as people settle in, I'm glad they learned from how badly the conservative approach served them in SC2.

Being a F2P game with a somewhat non-essential esports component also helps.

 

[Szadek]

You could play KT on an empty board and play a good taunt the next turn and have it be equally as fast even in that situation.

No, A) because you just gave your oppnonent more time to kill KT before his effect has done anything.
Chromaggus on the other hand already gave you at least 1 cards,much more if you have other draw effects in your hand.

B) your opponent is not going to kill your taunt unless he has a way to deal with KT,which means it takes until your next turn before you can trade it.

 

[ZealousD]

Here's my midrange dragon Paladin deck. I think something like this is going to be very popular on ladder once Blackrock Mountain is fully released.

It has a lot in common with standard midrange Paladin but of course has a dragon focus. It makes some appropriate swaps for dragon and dragon synergy cards with other cards at the same mana cost and will likely operate on much the same principle. Some cards that will raise eyebrows and I feel I'll need to defend.

1. I chose Twilight Drake instead of Hungry Dragon. I have always felt that Hungry Dragon has been overhyped. I can't help but think about how much people are down on Mukla and this drawback seems even worse to me. You absolutely cannot spend a full card taking out the 1 mana minion, and there are lot of potential 1 mana minions that can be troublesome to deal with or remove the 1/1 advantage that Hungry Dragon gets. I have enough card draw that Twilight Drake will probably be better than a 4/5 in the late game. At worst it's a 4/4 on curve I think. I think it's probably more consistent than Hungry Dragon.

2. Ironbeak Owl is a tech card and a meta call. This could easily be BGH or Kezan or whatever you need it to be.

3. Dr. Boom. I struggled between this and Sylvanas. I decided that even though Sylvanas might round out my curve a bit better, having a third 7+ target might make the BGH hurt less if it hits Onyxia and Nefarian. Speaking of...

4. Onyxia. Synergizes with Equality, Knife Juggler, Dragon Consort, Volcanic Drake, Solemn Vigil, Blackwing Technician, and Blackwing Corrupter. Like Dr. Boom, she is not the worst thing in the world to get BGH'd. I told you guys Onyxia was coming back. And I think she makes a ton of sense in Dragon Paladin. On Turn 7 she's like a Super Dr. Boom.

5. Nefarian. Most of the other high powered dragons are too slow or don't do anything in Paladin. Alexstrasza is clunky in a mid-range deck. Malygos does nothing. Nozdormu does even less. Ysera is too slow. Chromaggus is too slow. Deathwing is a poorly designed card. Nefarian draws me two cards immediately and my opponent can't play around them. He also makes the most sense in weapon classes so that Deadly Poison is no longer a nightmare. Imagine getting Deadly Poison or Tinker's with Light's Justice. Oh yes. The card draw also supports Twilight Drakes in the late game. Dropping him on Turn 7 is like a Super Ancient of Lore.

 

[Slashlen]

Based on the leaks, it looks like mobile versions will launch near or with BlackRock, like how we got tablet versions close to GvG.

 

[Dahbomb]

I think that deck is one heal short and probably a couple of taunt short as well in order to survive the aggressive decks. As it is, it's food for Face Hunter.

I would take out a Volcanic Drake for a Belcher.

 

[FeD.nL]

I like the deck but I really think face hunter is going to dictate the meta when all wings are out, midrange needs to run some taunts imo.

Edit: what Dahbomb said

 

[ZealousD]

I think that deck is one heal short and probably a couple of taunt short as well in order to survive the aggressive decks. As it is, it's food for Face Hunter.

I would take out a Volcanic Drake for a Belcher.

Blackwing Corrupter gets me two-for-one against aggressive decks, which is why I wasn't too sad about cutting belcher. Admittedly I am not yet sold on Volcanic Drake. Cutting one for a healbot or blecher is probably not a horrible idea. I think people need to figure out exactly how many dragons you need in a deck to keep Blackwing Technician and Blackwing Corrupter happy, and that's going to require some testing.

 

[Drkirby]

I wonder if the Ninja back is hinting at the next expansion, or if its just for fun. I could see a Ninja species working well.

 

[CoolOff]

I'm actually really excited for Control Rogue-potential. It might not work out, but it's an archetype that sticks out a lot.

 

[gutshot]

Based on the leaks, it looks like mobile versions will launch near or with BlackRock, like how we got tablet versions close to GvG.

Yup. Plus we'll be getting more free packs! One each for playing a game on an iPhone and Android phone, respectively. And one for watching a friend win a game in spectator mode.

 

[thepotatoman]

No, A) because you just gave your oppnonent more time to kill KT before his effect has done anything.
Chromaggus on the other hand already gave you at least 1 cards,much more if you have other draw effects in your hand.

B) your opponent is not going to kill your taunt unless he has a way to deal with KT,which means it takes until your next turn before you can trade it.

With B you're already getting value with even that, but ok, even if he is a bit faster in one situation, is it really that significant? They're both still really slow cards. Not entirely useless, but not going to fit in most decks.

I'm also not entirely sure if copy is better than just an additional draw. It basically makes the draw either extra good or extra bad depending on what one card you draw, instead of evening out your chances for the card you need over two draws.

 

[call_kotaku]

Now that I think about it, it's just a bunch more chances for mage to instantly win the game off a particularly lucky unstable portal

 

[thepotatoman]

There's also now a chance for a Sneed's to instantly lose a game thanks to Majordomo Executus.

 

[Mobius and pet octopus]

There's also now a chance for a Sneed's to instantly lose a game thanks to Majordomo Executus.

Aww yeah.

However, it will take some weird board state where they can both kill the 9/7 and sneeds, and deal 8 damage.

 

[Opiate]

Which more or less means he's slow, and Chromaggus is even slower. I was just using his stats/cost for a good comparison, not saying that they're particularly bad.

Point being it's very difficult for Chromaggus to get good value from his ability on the turn you play him, and he's probably going to die before you get to the next turn to use his ability.

He's definitely slow, but not Kel'Thuzad slow. Look at your example: to get value out of KT with an empty board, you need to play him, then play other stuff (e.g. taunts) the turn after, then wait to sacrifice them the turn after that in order to get value. With Chromagg, all he has to do is survive or turn.

KT has the bonus of reviving your board if you play him on a turn when you already have great minions. Chromaggus has the benefit of immediately giving you value if you have card draw (e.g. pw:s or warlock hero power). Even with his slowness, Kel'thuzad is borderline playable -- we do see him in some decks -- so I expect to see Chromagg in slightly more decks, because he's slightly faster and not as reliant on a dominant board state to begin with.

 

[Drkirby]

Aww yeah.

However, it will take some weird board state where they can both kill the 9/7 and sneeds, and deal 8 damage.

I can see something like this happening.

Shaman is like "Ha, I play Sneeds! Gonna cast Reincarnate and get a second Legendary too! Take that Face Huntard, I got 20 HP still too!"

Majordomo pop outs.

You topdeck your BGH and use it on Majordomo. Then Animal Companion Huffer, Skill Command, "Well Played".

 

[call_kotaku]

I can see something like this happening.

Shaman is like "Ha, I play Sneeds! Gonna cast Reincarnate and get a second Legendary too! Take that Face Huntard, I got 20 HP still too!"

Majordomo pop outs.

You topdeck your BGH and use it on Majordomo. Then Skill Command, Skill Command, Hero power "Well Played".

You mean BGH, quick shot, draw another quick shot, hero power

 

[ZealousD]

Chromaggus has the benefit of immediately giving you value if you have card draw (e.g. pw:s or warlock hero power)

Even then, you're only getting one card out of it if it gets hard removed. 8 mana 6/8 draw a card isn't anything to write home about. You need two draws for it to be OP. Even then, making sure you have a specific draw card like PW:S can be just as difficult as having that particular board state you need.

Meanwhile, Nefarian will get you two cards immediately without any setup.

 

[Opiate]

Even then, you're only getting one card out of it if it gets hard removed. 8 mana 6/8 draw a card isn't anything to write home about. You need two draws for it to be OP. Even then, making sure you have a specific draw card like PW:S can be just as difficult as having that particular board state you need.

Meanwhile, Nefarian will get you two cards immediately without any setup.

But is vulnerable to BGH. Nefarian is definitely a good card too, but will depend on how well dragon decks actually stack up.

 

[call_kotaku]

I wonder if for mulligans it becomes imperative to make sure you keep a dragon in your opening hand (even if it costs 8 mana) in order to take advantage of dragon synergy.

 

[JesseZao]

I wonder if for mulligans it becomes imperative to make sure you keep a dragon in your opening hand (even if it costs 8 mana) in order to take advantage of dragon synergy.

This will be an issue for the priest whelp, but I don't think it'll be a consideration otherwise. Assuming you're running a handful of dragons, it shouldn't be a problem to draw one by turn 3/4.

 

[squidyj]

Ugh draft a deck that doesn't give me a single instance of card draw whatsoever (on my last pick, oversaturated in 5's and gasping for 4's it shows me an azure drake vs a teacher for a single fucking cantrip, fuck you) and go up against mages with 3 flame strikes and bullshit fucking high value minions.

 

[hypersheep]

I can see something like this happening.

Shaman is like "Ha, I play Sneeds! Gonna cast Reincarnate and get a second Legendary too! Take that Face Huntard, I got 20 HP still too!"

Majordomo pop outs.

You topdeck your BGH and use it on Majordomo. Then Animal Companion Huffer, Skill Command, "Well Played".

>implying face hunter runs BGH
>impyling reincarnate shaman lives til turn 8 against face hunter

 

[Vanillalite]

Based on the leaks, it looks like mobile versions will launch near or with BlackRock, like how we got tablet versions close to GvG.

They said it was still a few months away officially during the GDC panel when they showed of the UI.

 

[Professor Lich]

I admire the Hearthstone team not giving a shit about balance just to introduce cool effects and crazy strong cards as soon as people settle in.

This is actually something I've been thinking about the game as a design perspective. I feel like they care more about a card having a great feel and effect, making sure people understand, "This is what this card does, and does it well," over than making it balanced first. I would say that it's a pretty safe assumption to make overall.

 

[Mirimar]

So basically, any new players wanting to play this game purely F2P are going to have a hell of a time. With this new addition, how is it remotely possible for them to win with the current basic set?

Or rather, new players in general will probably end up spending some money on this. Unless you're a really dedicated player, F2P for newbies doesn't seem likely after this launches.

 

[Drkirby]

Guys, I have a deck idea. Malygos/Thaurissan Freeze Mage.

You delay the game until you have Malygos, Thaurissan , and several freeze spells in hand (Lets say 2 ice lances, 1 frost bolt). Play Thaurissan to reduce Maly to 8, and also reduce the mana cost of some of your spells. Then you can play Malygos, Frost Bolt, Ice Lance, Ice Lance the next or a following turn for 26 damage. Maybe work it into a normal Freeze Mage as a alternative win condition.

 

[Mobius and pet octopus]

So basically, any new players wanting to play this game purely F2P are going to have a hell of a time. With this new addition, how is it remotely possible for them to win with the current basic set?

Or rather, new players in general will probably end up spending some money on this. Unless you're a really dedicated player, F2P for newbies doesn't seem likely after this launches.

The classic set still has a lot of good cards. But it isn't like a new player has to collect all the cards in the game. A new player should focus on mainly just enjoying the game and slowly working towards stronger decks. I've done enough basic only deck ladder runs to know that you can make it pretty far with basic decks and the skill to use them effectively.

Guys, I have a deck idea. Malygos/Thaurissan Freeze Mage.

You delay the game until you have Malygos, Thaurissan , and several freeze spells in hand (Lets say 2 ice lances, 1 frost bolt). Play Thaurissan to reduce Maly to 8, and also reduce the mana cost of some of your spells. Then you can play Malygos, Frost Bolt, Ice Lance, Ice Lance the next or a following turn for 26 damage. Maybe work it into a normal Freeze Mage as a alternative win condition.

The new OTK is getting thaurissan to reduce your alex and gorehowl and charge by 3. Then alex opponent, charge on alex, gorehowl, all face = OTK.

Spoiler

not being quite serious

 

[Mirimar]

The classic set still has a lot of good cards. But it isn't like a new player has to collect all the cards in the game. A new player should focus on mainly just enjoying the game and slowly working towards stronger decks. I've done enough basic only deck ladder runs to know that you can make it pretty far with basic decks and the skill to use them effectively.



The new OTK is getting thaurissan to reduce your alex and gorehowl and charge by 3. Then alex opponent, charge on alex, gorehowl, all face = OTK.

Spoiler

not being quite serious

I'm sure you'll mess around with basic only decks after this launches, so maybe see how well it does when this new expansion launches. Would be interesting with regards to power creep. I can't imagine a consistent win rate. I always feel bad wrecking new players in the lower ranks and I don't see them having fun if the majority of the decks they're running into have better cards. Makes me wonder if there should be a game mode where newer players can play against each other. I have no idea how that would be implemented, though. Casual just doesn't work that way.

 

[Drkirby]

The new OTK is getting thaurissan to reduce your alex and gorehowl and charge by 3. Then alex opponent, charge on alex, gorehowl, all face = OTK.

Spoiler

not being quite serious

I think Thaurissan has real OTK opportunity, but it requires card advantage. I guess the theory crafting now is what is the least amount of card advantage you will need. I can think of a lot of "Have Thaurissan, 1 Legendary + 2/3 other cards" combos that can deal massive damage turn 10, but the odds of getting both Thaurissan/(Another Legendary) alone by turn 9 is only 15% (For Coin)

Like, lets run some statistics on my above combo. You need 5 cards in hand at the same time to make it work. So lets say you want to play it over turn 9/10, what are the odds?

Well, to have just Thaurissan/Maly is 18% like I said above. Then, you need 3 of the 4 ice spells cards. The chance of getting 3 of those cards in the other 11 draws is only 15%. So you only have a 3% chance of "the dream" hand on turn 9. Not good odds.

 

[Mobius and pet octopus]

I think Thaurissan has real OTK opportunity, but it requires card advantage. I guess the theory crafting now is what is the least amount of card advantage you will need.

Likely mage or shaman burn decks will get the most out of this particular strategy. Lets say you have a fireball + frostbolt + sorcercess apprentice reduced by 1 cost. That makes your sorceress + fireball + frostbolt + ice lance cost 3 mana for 11 damage. Drop a thalnos for 14 damage. Second ice lance brings it up to 19, second fireball to 26.

Likewise with shaman you're getting free lightning bolts, nearly free crackles, lava bursts, etc..

I can see why people might be concerned about the emperor, even if it only goes off once that can be very devastating. It is like gaining 1 mana for each card you play affected by this, for each time it is affected by it. So if somehow you manage to have 9 cards in hand at the end of your turn, its like having 9 extra mana if you play each of those cards. If it goes off twice, or even three times, it's like having way more mana than you'll ever need.

 

[RumblingRosco]

Aww yeah.

However, it will take some weird board state where they can both kill the 9/7 and sneeds, and deal 8 damage.

Priest: Shadow Word: Death x2 (one on Sneed's, one on the 9/7), Holy Smite 2x to the face, Stonetusk Boar 2x onto a board with Raid Leader already in-play.

See, not hard.

 

[rickyson1]

i've started playing out realistic looking hearthstone matches in my head while i'm trying to sleep....

maybe i've been playing this game a little too much

 

[Mobius and pet octopus]

i've started playing out realistic looking hearthstone matches in my head while i'm trying to sleep....

maybe i've been playing this game a little too much

It is the heart of the cards speaking to you in your dreams, or something. I never got into yugioh.

 

[Drkirby]

It is the heart of the cards speaking to you in your dreams, or something. I never got into yugioh.

Heart of the Cards is the marketing term for Top decking.

 

[caesar]

Dat emperor card hnng

 

[Super Nothing]

Priest: Shadow Word: Death x2 (one on Sneed's, one on the 9/7), Holy Smite 2x to the face, Stonetusk Boar 2x onto a board with Raid Leader already in-play.

See, not hard.

2X Mind Blast.

 

[Ashodin]

Mage vs Druid

He emotes the entire game

I play Dr. Boom

he gets perfect RNG on his dropped Sylvanas to steal Boom

emotes all the way to the end

How do these people live with themselves

 

[Gotchaye]

How do these people live with themselves

The pleasure is theirs.

 

[Sigismundo]

Fireguard Destroyer seems like an extraordinarily good card.

4/6 by turn 4 is still a really good statline, 5/6 & 6/6 are excellent and 7/6 means they have to use BGH on it (and leave Dr. Boom and friends) or they'll get smacked.

 

[Rapstah]

Velen (6) + Velen's Chosen (2) + Mind Blast (1) + Mind Blast (1) would be a 24-damage combo for 10 mana. There might be a replacement for Velen's Chosen that does way more damage, but Priest has expensive spells. There's also no real way you're living to turn 10 trying to set that up along the way.

The Arcane Golem + 2 * Power Overwhelming + Faceless Manipulator combo can get as low as 7 mana with Thaurissan, but maybe Thaurissan enables some other variants with more expensive buffs than Power Overwhelming. Abusive Sergeant would be free. Blessing of Might is free.

Arcane Golem + Power Overwhelming + Power Overwhelming + Abusive Sergeant + Abusive Sergeant puts it at 16 damage at potentially as little as 3 mana. At six cards for the instant kill with the Faceless after a Twisting Nether, it's not realistic, though.

 

[ZZMitch]

That feeling when you pull Kel'Thuzad from an Unstable Portal... Traded my Piloted Shredder and a Water Elemental into my opponents Dr. Boom, Frosted Bolted something and then played my cheap Kel'Thuzad. To add insult to injury I got Millhouse Manastorm off the Shredder! The real Kel'Thuzad in my deck somewhere is probably pissed I am using this cheap knock-off version to defeat my enemies.

"Hello."

Spoiler

I am a horrible person.

 

[Danj]

It's a shame that Kel'Thuzad isn't as witty as a card as he is in Naxxramas itself. I particularly liked his rejoinders to each class's intro speech. Rogue goes "Watch. Your. Back." and he's like "OK. I. Will."

 

[Drkirby]

Velen (6) + Velen's Chosen (2) + Mind Blast (1) + Mind Blast (1) would be a 24-damage combo for 10 mana. There might be a replacement for Velen's Chosen that does way more damage, but Priest has expensive spells. There's also no real way you're living to turn 10 trying to set that up along the way.

The Arcane Golem + 2 * Power Overwhelming + Faceless Manipulator combo can get as low as 7 mana with Thaurissan, but maybe Thaurissan enables some other variants with more expensive buffs than Power Overwhelming. Abusive Sergeant would be free. Blessing of Might is free.

Arcane Golem + Power Overwhelming + Power Overwhelming + Abusive Sergeant + Abusive Sergeant puts it at 16 damage at potentially as little as 3 mana. At six cards for the instant kill with the Faceless after a Twisting Nether, it's not realistic, though.

Yeah, I think the Freeze Mage version would likely be the safest version. Run Alex and keep the normal win condition, but maybe shove out a say Archmage Antonidas and an Ice Block from this varation to make way for Maly and Thaurissan. You can most likely set up lethal with something like naked Thaurissan, Next turn Alex + hero power/cheap card, and then using a bunch of discounted spells. You could do like Bloodmage, Frost Blast, Frost Blast, Ice Lance, Ice Lance, Fire Ball, Fireball to do then 32 damage, then able to kill even a armored up warrior.

Hell, do the same combo above without ether Alex or Maly and you still win. I think running Maly and Thaurissan in a Freeze Mage will make the deck type far more consistent and able to win vs the normally unwinnable warrior matchup.

 

[Szadek]

I'm also not entirely sure if copy is better than just an additional draw. It basically makes the draw either extra good or extra bad depending on what one card you draw, instead of evening out your chances for the card you need over two draws.

What?That doesn't make sense.
The only time when getting another card to your hand is bad is when your hand is too full.
Coping a "bad" cards doesn't make the situation any worse.
You also ignored situations were 1 copy of a card isn't enough but 2 are.

 

[thepotatoman]

What?That doesn't make sense.
The only time when getting another card to your hand is bad is when your hand is too full.
Coping a "bad" cards doesn't make the situation any worse.
You also ignored situations were 1 copy of a card isn't enough but 2 are.

I didn't call it bad compared to just a 1 draw turn. I was just noting that 2 draws might be better than 1 draw and a copy. It's a small thing, but still something worth thinking about.

 

[toddhunter]

Just got a best friend.

Basically un nerfs miracle rogue.