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Hearthstone |OT3| Preparing for the Ball of Spiders Meta
- Thread starter ZealousD
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We should compare decks. I'm running something really similar and it's tons of fun.
https://tempostorm.com/decks/get-in-here-warrior
I dropped taunts and live or die on the board.
Armor Smith has enough combos that her armor generation is usually pretty insane.
I removed more combo oriented cards(Worgen, Charge, and others) for more solid on their own cards(Shredder, Dr. Boom, Rag).
I feel like the deck has a lot of BGH targets. 3 + 2 Amani Berserkers who often reach over 7 attack.
I stopped holding onto Commanding Shout for the combo, if I can get a great trade in the card has value as it recycles. Often if can offer up 2 or 3 great trades, which is incredible.
Lava Shock and Imp Gang Boss are good cards that will see play on Ladder. Lava Shock is the final piece of the puzzle to make Malygos Shaman semi viable.Aw it sucks we have to wait another 3 days for more cards.
I'm not that hyped about this week's card set either. (Or even the third week, but the fourth week looks great)
Druid of the flame, blackwing technician, imp gang boss, majordomo, axe flinger, and lava shock.
I guess lava shock is interesting at least.
Aw it sucks we have to wait another 3 days for more cards.
I'm not that hyped about this week's card set either. (Or even the third week, but the fourth week looks great)
Druid of the flame, blackwing technician, imp gang boss, majordomo, axe flinger, and lava shock.
I guess lava shock is interesting at least.
It's 1000x better than last week for Arena. Imp Gang Boss will be the new carry for Warlock, Lava Shock is interesting, and Druid of the Flame will make Druid even more of a power.
Mobius and pet octopus
Member
Why Malygos shaman? Seems better for unbound elemental builds rather than trying to burst down off malygos which lava shock doesn't seem that relevant towards.
Lightning Bolt and Lava Burst (note: not Lava Shock) both have Overload, plus Lava Shock has damage of its own. I think Malygos Shaman runs Frost Shock because it's damage, Lava Shock has to beat that in every single way.
BananasWithGuns
Member
Really not that high on Lava Shock. Just hard to imagine it being worth a spot unless you're really going out of your way to overload yourself. Granted heavy overload decks might be something that catches on but who knows.
If it was 0 mana without the 2 damage then I think it'd be something worth getting really excited about but right now, I don't know, doesn't seem all that great to me.
If it was 0 mana without the 2 damage then I think it'd be something worth getting really excited about but right now, I don't know, doesn't seem all that great to me.
This is my deck:
I had a lot of cards that inflicted damage to other minions and minions with effects activated with damage so I just put them together and the result is surprisingly good. It's also a very cheap deck if you ignore Dr. Boom and Ragnaros.
Really, this happened the next match again:
When I get Frothing Berserker I'll give it a try, but I think I couldn't live without my Sludge Belchers.
Mobius and pet octopus
Member
Well sure, you might get some overload recovery before a malygos play, but I'd imagine you're aiming to win the game, not extend it, once malygos hits the board.
Then again, I've never played the deck nor have I even played against it. Seems like lava burst might be a bit better, or at least more relevant towards the malygos finisher.
To me it seems like something where you play your unbound, you play your 2-3 mana overload card, be it crackle, lava burst, lightning storm, or feral spirits, and then next turn you play another, lava shock and recover 2-4 mana, and you have 5 mana left over for something like loatheb and your next turn you have a full set of mana.
The value there is variable depending on the cards used to overload, but lets imagine you play like a feral spirits and a lava burst. 4 mana overload recovered is what you get for spending 2 mana to deal 2 damage. 2 damage on the direct spell damage chart is equal to costing 1 mana normally. So it is like you innervated and got 3 mana off your holy smite.
I think it is a great card but I'm not sure how great.
0 mana 2 damage... the old backstab before it was nerfed to only target undamaged minions. That would be insane btw. But then recovering overload at the same time? That would be broken.
edit:
also don't forget it can target face:
That Grim Patron deck is like twice as good with Frothing Berserker in it. You can do like 40 damage in one turn with it or something crazy like that.
That card is also fine in an Unbound Element deck of course but it's definitely staple for Malygos deck. Definitely going to be replacing Frost Shock which is a shit card in general.
And Lava Burst is already used in Malygos decks.
There are times in that deck where you need to use spells to control the board and stall until you get Malygos. The deck runs an insane amount of overload spells and you can get really behind due to the overload. Sometimes you get Malygos out but you might not have lethal and with this card you can do as much damage as you can in one turn and actually get to play something next turn. Currently for Malygos deck if you use Malygos plus spells combo and don't kill you won't have any mana to do anything next turn.
That card is also fine in an Unbound Element deck of course but it's definitely staple for Malygos deck. Definitely going to be replacing Frost Shock which is a shit card in general.
And Lava Burst is already used in Malygos decks.
TheSadRanger
Banned
WTH is with the game designers in this game, "We don't like players to have a OTK"
few months later..........
I mean don't get me wrong, it's genius to package overpowered cards to get people to buy your shit. I just wish they were a little more honest about it.
few months later..........
I mean don't get me wrong, it's genius to package overpowered cards to get people to buy your shit. I just wish they were a little more honest about it.
Mobius and pet octopus
Member
I finally did it guys! I beat GVG!
Yeah, I'm not really familiar at all with malygos shaman, always seemed way too gimmicky to bother with and I've never seen it in action either. Well, I guess I saw it in a tournament play once on a replay that was showing reynad salt.
Yeah, I'm not really familiar at all with malygos shaman, always seemed way too gimmicky to bother with and I've never seen it in action either. Well, I guess I saw it in a tournament play once on a replay that was showing reynad salt.
Professor Lich
Member
Technically, if you use EMP T for a combo that would normally go over ten mana, it's not an OTK. It still requires set up on your end before you can beat someone.
That being said, the definition of what an OTK is might have to change with a new card like EMP T.
That being said, the definition of what an OTK is might have to change with a new card like EMP T.
Flizzzipper
Member
I just started using a stat tracker and I'm not sure if I like it. I'm doing so good with a new deck I'm almost scared to play and lose and screw up my awesome record. 80% win rate after 21 games.
I wanted to put together a Neutral Legendary Tier List of Legendries to craft since so many people ask "What Legendary should I craft next?" Let me know your opinion on this list. The order that cards are listed in tier is arbitrary.
Dr. Boom Tier (Craft First)
Dr Boom: He gets his own tier. He's currently the best leg in the game and can fit in almost any deck. If he gets nerfed, you get your dust back. No Brainer
S Tier: (Craft Second)
Sylvannus: She should be your second craft if you have a deck you can slot her in. Really valuable legendary that instantly upgrades several decks. Versatile and powerful.
A Tier: (High Value Cards and Tech Cards)
Ragnoros: Powerful card that can augment any control deck, has an immediate effect. The RNG can screw you over at times but Rag Instantly gives you value before he eats removal.
Ysera: She's fallen out of Favor recently but she used to be pretty interchangeable with Rag. I think she still deserves to be here.
Harrison Jones: A tech card that's usefulness shifts with the meta. A good card to own to tech in an out
The Black Knight: See Harrison Jones
Sneeds Old Shredder: Really somewhere between A and B tier. Value card that's very fun to play. Can be silenced but still leaves behind nice body.
B Tier: (Specialty Cards. Useful in specific decks.)
Bloodmage Thalnos- Good in some rogue decks. Has special uses elsewhere.
Alexstrassa- Good for Control Warrior and Freeze mage. Finds uses in other decks.
C Tier (Can be useful. Probably better to save dust for important epics)
Cairne Bloodhoof: Used to be A Tier. has fallen out of favor with rash of 5 health minions once Naxx came out.
Troggzor: Can punish use of removal. Weak stats for cost.
Leeroy Jenkins: Use to be integral to any aggro deck. After nerf still can be used in face Hunter.
Baron Geddon: Almost put him in B Tier. Really only used in Control Warrior.
Malygos: Same as Geddon, very specific use but not as commonly used as Thalnos and Alex
Dr. Boom Tier (Craft First)
Dr Boom: He gets his own tier. He's currently the best leg in the game and can fit in almost any deck. If he gets nerfed, you get your dust back. No Brainer
S Tier: (Craft Second)
Sylvannus: She should be your second craft if you have a deck you can slot her in. Really valuable legendary that instantly upgrades several decks. Versatile and powerful.
A Tier: (High Value Cards and Tech Cards)
Ragnoros: Powerful card that can augment any control deck, has an immediate effect. The RNG can screw you over at times but Rag Instantly gives you value before he eats removal.
Ysera: She's fallen out of Favor recently but she used to be pretty interchangeable with Rag. I think she still deserves to be here.
Harrison Jones: A tech card that's usefulness shifts with the meta. A good card to own to tech in an out
The Black Knight: See Harrison Jones
Sneeds Old Shredder: Really somewhere between A and B tier. Value card that's very fun to play. Can be silenced but still leaves behind nice body.
B Tier: (Specialty Cards. Useful in specific decks.)
Bloodmage Thalnos- Good in some rogue decks. Has special uses elsewhere.
Alexstrassa- Good for Control Warrior and Freeze mage. Finds uses in other decks.
C Tier (Can be useful. Probably better to save dust for important epics)
Cairne Bloodhoof: Used to be A Tier. has fallen out of favor with rash of 5 health minions once Naxx came out.
Troggzor: Can punish use of removal. Weak stats for cost.
Leeroy Jenkins: Use to be integral to any aggro deck. After nerf still can be used in face Hunter.
Baron Geddon: Almost put him in B Tier. Really only used in Control Warrior.
Malygos: Same as Geddon, very specific use but not as commonly used as Thalnos and Alex
Seems fine except for Cairne who I'd strongly advise against crafting, and with the incoming midgame power creep minions he'll become even more useless
Foe Reaper would be in the same tier as Troggzor
Actually I consider Ysera strictly B tier outside of tournament settings, that might change depending on the viability of dragon decks
Foe Reaper would be in the same tier as Troggzor
Actually I consider Ysera strictly B tier outside of tournament settings, that might change depending on the viability of dragon decks
Cairne isn't worth crafting at all anymore. Sky Golem is cheaper and better in most circumstances. Sole exception would be against Priest, maybe, but with Shrinkmeister, that argument isn't solid either.
Really, ones that can't be crafted need to be mentioned. "Which Neutral legendaries do I need to be competitively viable?"
Loatheb and Emperor are in that picture.
Really, ones that can't be crafted need to be mentioned. "Which Neutral legendaries do I need to be competitively viable?"
Loatheb and Emperor are in that picture.
Gully State
Member
What about class specific legendaries? I feel they should be ranked in there as well.
TetraxShards
Member
He specifically said it was a list of neutral Legendaries. Class legendaries depend entirely on what you want to play.
Professor Lich
Member
Sometimes, I just love playing dumb decks. You never know what's going to happen. 29 damage for exact lethal.
Avinexus
Member
I mean...neutrals are the same way. You aren't gonna make them if they don't go into the decks you want to play. Hell, some class legendaries probably go into more decks than some of those in the A tier from that list.
TetraxShards
Member
Less so though. You can slot a Sylvanas or a Dr. Balanced into almost any deck for any class and it will make it better. Same with tech cards, but they depend on the current meta for how good they are. There are then some that are only good in certain classes, like Thalnos for Rogue.
TheChewyWaffles
Member
I like to "Well Played" face hunters every time they play a card. I'm sure I get squelched pretty quickly, but it gives me a bit of juvenile satisfaction to mock them a bit.
I have not found much success with Sylvanas. Can someone tell me how to maximize her value? When she's played against me it's usually pretty easy to ignore her or trade the cards on my side of the board so that she doesn't get anything in return. I'd probably be trading to get rid of a 5/5 anyway depending on the situation, so it's not like I'm too butt-hurt about it. This is in a Druid combo/ramp deck.
another edit: I suppose her main value is all the trades people do to take her off. Makes sense. Main problem is that it's too easy to trade cheap ass minions away for face hunters to clear her off. That or the Kill Command does her in and all I get is a shit 1 or 2 mana drop as a result. Bah.
I have not found much success with Sylvanas. Can someone tell me how to maximize her value? When she's played against me it's usually pretty easy to ignore her or trade the cards on my side of the board so that she doesn't get anything in return. I'd probably be trading to get rid of a 5/5 anyway depending on the situation, so it's not like I'm too butt-hurt about it. This is in a Druid combo/ramp deck.
another edit: I suppose her main value is all the trades people do to take her off. Makes sense. Main problem is that it's too easy to trade cheap ass minions away for face hunters to clear her off. That or the Kill Command does her in and all I get is a shit 1 or 2 mana drop as a result. Bah.
I feel Ragnoros and Ysera both belong in B tier, maybe even C Tier, my justification is after running decks for just about every class and Arch Type I have never felt like I was messing a key card by not having them. There is no deck that just doesn't work if you are missing them. Also, I guess you should just put a catch all D tier for all other Legendarily (And maybe toss in the Naxx/BRM cards into them, just to give people an idea of their usefulness)
Gully State
Member
Wow..I dunno how I completely missed that. my bad
Kotetsu534
Member
Dr. Boom carries otherwise average/bad Mage Arena draft to 10 wins in shocker. Would have been 11 too if I didn't misplay by holding him too long in one match. I had a lot of strong 2-drops and small removals, but only 3 4-drops, 2 5-drops and no AoE. A big thank you to Doc Balance himself for turning round several games.
Dr Balanced is in fact in his own tier for Legendaries in Arena (from tiers of various sites). The only Legendary that comes close is a class one and that's Tirion.
Mobius and pet octopus
Member
I don't even know how you play around druid combo now. One turn of thaurissan and its like game over. They play minions faster than you can remove or stickier than you can remove and then they pull off the combo plus perhaps even a swipe or second savage roar. 24 hp is no longer safe to play around even the basic FON+SR + board damage. It is pretty absurd imo.
Back when leeroy shadowstep was a thing, I wasn't a fan of how that deck basically cheated the need to get board to build up for lethal. But despite that I wasn't one of the people completely on board with it being nerfed. But since then I had appreciated the direction the game went, especially after UT was nerfed. UT nerf was a huge step forward imho. And Thaurissan is perhaps an even bigger step backwards towards the miracle days of lacking interactivity. And it is even stronger than miracle rogue imo because druid can already game the mana curve system with wild growth and innervate.
Even without Thaurissan, druid is sometimes just absurd because they have innervate. Turn 7 with 5/5 shade + FON + SR = 21 damage. On turn 7. That already is miracle rogue degree of burst capability and leeroy was nerfed for that very reason. Granted, you have to play shade early on, but then after it survives a round or two you really can't interact with it even with AOEs. And I'll admit that bomb lobber is a way to interact with it as well. The rarity of the stars aligning like this makes it at least a bit more acceptable than other combos, still pretty broken degree of strength nonetheless.
Just jumping back a moment to Thaurissan in druid. 1 turn is all it really takes. Even if you're above 20-25 hp, they can just spam the board making it very difficult to clear. Even if you exhaust all your resources clearing board, they'll eventually draw into a second savage roar and they won't even need innervate. Or if you clear the board enough to survive FON + SR, all it takes is something like a swipe, because the combo is now 7 mana, and swipe is now 3, and they're doing 18 damage from hand + board.
Just imagine for a moment if we always had to play around druid combo finishers at 18 hp. It is already incredibly difficult at 14 hp. There are definitely some differences, such as playing thaurissan on a turn it is safe to, having the cards in hand etc.., but I think this sort of strategy takes the game in a huge step backwards, and is probably why it has a lot of people upset at their decision to include Thaurissan.
Back when leeroy shadowstep was a thing, I wasn't a fan of how that deck basically cheated the need to get board to build up for lethal. But despite that I wasn't one of the people completely on board with it being nerfed. But since then I had appreciated the direction the game went, especially after UT was nerfed. UT nerf was a huge step forward imho. And Thaurissan is perhaps an even bigger step backwards towards the miracle days of lacking interactivity. And it is even stronger than miracle rogue imo because druid can already game the mana curve system with wild growth and innervate.
Even without Thaurissan, druid is sometimes just absurd because they have innervate. Turn 7 with 5/5 shade + FON + SR = 21 damage. On turn 7. That already is miracle rogue degree of burst capability and leeroy was nerfed for that very reason. Granted, you have to play shade early on, but then after it survives a round or two you really can't interact with it even with AOEs. And I'll admit that bomb lobber is a way to interact with it as well. The rarity of the stars aligning like this makes it at least a bit more acceptable than other combos, still pretty broken degree of strength nonetheless.
Just jumping back a moment to Thaurissan in druid. 1 turn is all it really takes. Even if you're above 20-25 hp, they can just spam the board making it very difficult to clear. Even if you exhaust all your resources clearing board, they'll eventually draw into a second savage roar and they won't even need innervate. Or if you clear the board enough to survive FON + SR, all it takes is something like a swipe, because the combo is now 7 mana, and swipe is now 3, and they're doing 18 damage from hand + board.
Just imagine for a moment if we always had to play around druid combo finishers at 18 hp. It is already incredibly difficult at 14 hp. There are definitely some differences, such as playing thaurissan on a turn it is safe to, having the cards in hand etc.., but I think this sort of strategy takes the game in a huge step backwards, and is probably why it has a lot of people upset at their decision to include Thaurissan.
Bloodmace Tailnose
Loarwalker Show
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Gas Slow
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Max-No
Ogre the Ogre
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The Best
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Tloshy
Trade Wins Gallyway
Archmage Das Anton
Baron Rivendare
Dr. Zoom
Fame Leviathan
Gaston'martin
Loarwalker Show
Milhaus Manastore
Nat Payhole
Head In VanCletus
King Mooclaw
Tinker Overstark
Baron Riveting
Hold Murky
Plingotron 300
Bolivar For The Dragon
Captain Green Sin
Elite Thorim Cheating
Fyougame
Henry N Jones
I Met Nesingway
L Hero Jenkens
Loathing
Mama Ron's Head
Stalactite
Folk-Jim
Carne Bloodhuffer
Emperor Thor Risen
Gas Slow
Gilblin Mech-Tauren
Hogre
Ill Dan Stormgarde
Ireland Juxtaposition
Max-No
Ogre the Ogre
Sly Johannes, the Hindrunner
The Best
The Black Night
Tloshy
Trade Wins Gallyway
Archmage Das Anton
Baron Rivendare
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Fame Leviathan
Gaston'martin
Servbot #42
Unconfirmed Member
So i might have spent a bunch of real money to be able to craft enough cards to play handlock, which is more tricky than it looks. It's not a pick up and play type of deck, definitely harder than it looks.
BananasWithGuns
Member
Well of course that would be broken, which is why I said without the 2 damage. Essentially 0 mana, remove overload. Would be a bit more situational Innervate but with applications that could make it better as well. I don't really feel like Shaman needs more direct damage spells at all. In my opinion they need cards that are able to make them more consistent and I'm not sure that paying 2 mana to clear your overload really does that.
TheChewyWaffles
Member
<3 Emp Balanced. Wild Growth + Innervated him out on turn 3 against a handlock. There's just no coming back from that for a lot of decks. On turn 6 he even got Molten out for 0 mana, taunted him, and still conceded. It was just ugly, but I did have an almost perfect hand. 3 mana Keeper of the grove to silence a 4/8 twilight drake thanks to the Emperor. That's after I got out Dr. Boom on turn 4 for 6 mana.
If only all RNG's were that favorable.
Also, mind control tech is shit and, no joke, always picks the most worthless minion possible to steal.
If only all RNG's were that favorable.
Also, mind control tech is shit and, no joke, always picks the most worthless minion possible to steal.
Mobius and pet octopus
Member
I think the 2 mana 2 damage version is actually preferable. You can get value out of the card itself instead of it being a pure tempo based card it now has some inherent value itself which can be buffed by other cards like spell damage.
Except when the opponent uses it, then they always get the best one.
Amirite or am I right?
TheChewyWaffles
Member
Does that micromachine little shit get +1 at the start of EVERYONE's turn including the opponent?
Yup. Kill that little guy quick.
All turns. It grows like a Lightwarden except it's one mana more expensive and you can't massively buff it by healing six minions at once.
veloxStrix
Banned
Kolento was running Cairne in his Control Warrior and his Priest today.
I know what you mean. I got so pissed off with face hunters that I just started playing one and I NEVER play hunter. Got almost all the classes to 60 apart from Huntard who is 35, 10 games later I'm 9-1 and up a few ranks with the same shitty face face face every turn deck everyone's using.
It's a problem.
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