Keyser Soze
Member
You are right, but I needed to try this.
After a few attempts, I stumbled into a Power Word Glory Player who seemed into my brand of BS, and let a longish game play out. I conceded after about 20. It's done now.
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Hearthstone |OT9| Our raid wiped in Icecrown Citadel
- Thread starter ZealousD
- Start date
You are right, but I needed to try this.
After a few attempts, I stumbled into a Power Word Glory Player who seemed into my brand of BS, and let a longish game play out. I conceded after about 20. It's done now.
This is a custom card I made, not a leak or anything
Been rolling this card idea around in my head for awhile. I like the idea of finding ways to implement old cards that are rarely played to be put back into the game. Give them the life they never had. I think this is a pretty elegant way to do it for Blood Imp, which in its current form is one of my favorite cards that never sees play. It may not look super powerful but I think this is good in a very subtle way. Usually a turn 1 Blood Imp doesn't get any value the turn you play it because there's no minions on the board yet. This gives you a guaranteed minion, effectively making the card something like a 2/4 with an upside. I don't think it's super strong or anything but I kind of like the idea and think it is well balanced. It's not flashy or exciting but I think it's just a neat card idea and actually looks like the kind of thing that might actually be put into the game.
Been rolling this card idea around in my head for awhile. I like the idea of finding ways to implement old cards that are rarely played to be put back into the game. Give them the life they never had. I think this is a pretty elegant way to do it for Blood Imp, which in its current form is one of my favorite cards that never sees play. It may not look super powerful but I think this is good in a very subtle way. Usually a turn 1 Blood Imp doesn't get any value the turn you play it because there's no minions on the board yet. This gives you a guaranteed minion, effectively making the card something like a 2/4 with an upside. I don't think it's super strong or anything but I kind of like the idea and think it is well balanced. It's not flashy or exciting but I think it's just a neat card idea and actually looks like the kind of thing that might actually be put into the game.
This is a custom card I made, not a leak or anything
Been rolling this card idea around in my head for awhile. I like the idea of finding ways to implement old cards that are rarely played to be put back into the game. Give them the life they never had. I think this is a pretty elegant way to do it for Blood Imp, which in its current form is one of my favorite cards that never sees play. It may not look super powerful but I think this is good in a very subtle way. Usually a turn 1 Blood Imp doesn't get any value the turn you play it because there's no minions on the board yet. This gives you a guaranteed minion, effectively making the card something like a 2/4 with an upside. I don't think it's super strong or anything but I kind of like the idea and think it is well balanced. It's not flashy or exciting but I think it's just a neat card idea and actually looks like the kind of thing that might actually be put into the game.
Prerty damn fine idea, I love it specially after seeing how special stonehill defender turned out to be. Cards never included in decks could see play.
I wish they could make something like that, I still think about why the hell silverback patriarch exists. This could justify it.
Karsticles
Member
I think Blood Imp needs to be able to target itself and give +1/+1. Then it would see play. Kind of like an awkward Shade of Naxrammas since it will target your other stuff. It can't be a free clear that didn't do anything.This is a custom card I made, not a leak or anything
Been rolling this card idea around in my head for awhile. I like the idea of finding ways to implement old cards that are rarely played to be put back into the game. Give them the life they never had. I think this is a pretty elegant way to do it for Blood Imp, which in its current form is one of my favorite cards that never sees play. It may not look super powerful but I think this is good in a very subtle way. Usually a turn 1 Blood Imp doesn't get any value the turn you play it because there's no minions on the board yet. This gives you a guaranteed minion, effectively making the card something like a 2/4 with an upside. I don't think it's super strong or anything but I kind of like the idea and think it is well balanced. It's not flashy or exciting but I think it's just a neat card idea and actually looks like the kind of thing that might actually be put into the game.
I like your card though.
Karsticles
Member
That was then. The game is so much faster now, and zoo is a dead archetype in Standard AND Wild.
bernardobri
Steve, the dog with no powers that we let hang out with us all for some reason
Lone_Prodigy
Member
That awkward moment when you think a damaged minion would drop to 1 HP after Warleader dies, only to go back to 2 HP.
I potion of madness a 2/2 patches to kill 2/2 first mate, then I realized the buff from southsea captain isn't working.
Familienoberhauptvogel
Banned
finally got my 3rd ungoro legendary but its a dupe tarim, happens.
Now time to start saving gold for the next expansion.
Now time to start saving gold for the next expansion.
Twinguistics
Member
Just got a Black Knight from a spectator quest pack. I don't think I've even seen this legendary before.
Dust or keep? I'm thinking dust though looks like a good tech card for quest Warrior.
Dust or keep? I'm thinking dust though looks like a good tech card for quest Warrior.
Lagspike_exe
Member
Keep. One of the best tech cards. And it's awesome because no one expects it.
Familienoberhauptvogel
Banned
it's a passable tech card, currently it's a keep because of taunt warrior mostly but it doesn't see much play anyway.
I dusted mine quite some time ago as it was pretty much useless at the time.
I dusted mine quite some time ago as it was pretty much useless at the time.
Lone_Prodigy
Member
Well one positive about the QR nerf is that you'll get fewer players BMing you "well played" when they finish the quest.
I was playing Dragon Priest too and would've had a chance if I drew Dragonfire in the top half of my deck. He also stole Onyx Bishop and bounced it so that was lucky.
I was playing Dragon Priest too and would've had a chance if I drew Dragonfire in the top half of my deck. He also stole Onyx Bishop and bounced it so that was lucky.
Mobius and pet octopus
Member
Still waiting for that auto-squelch option.
Personally I'd dust it, but if you have any intention to avoid duplicate, then keep it.
DyslexicAlucard
Member
Watching Trump Reviews Trump Reviews: Journey to Un'goro Neutral Cards and man, he even sucks at reviewing cards that are already out. According to him, Glacial Shard is five stars (because it's effective in one logic-warping deck,) Stubborn Gastropod is one star, Primalfin Lookout is one star (wut...), Igneous Elemental is five stars etc. etc.
I could go on, but it just seems like he thinks anything that is solid and flexible, so it sees play, is a five-star card. If it's played in a tier-one deck, five stars. If it doesn't see play because of current meta reasons, or doesn't have a deck that supports it, it's one star. ZealousD and Dahbomb are much better at both initial reviews and re-reviews, IMO, and the fact that so many in the community look to Trump's opinion is kinda sad.
I could go on, but it just seems like he thinks anything that is solid and flexible, so it sees play, is a five-star card. If it's played in a tier-one deck, five stars. If it doesn't see play because of current meta reasons, or doesn't have a deck that supports it, it's one star. ZealousD and Dahbomb are much better at both initial reviews and re-reviews, IMO, and the fact that so many in the community look to Trump's opinion is kinda sad.
BananasWithGuns
Member
"This card sees play in this deck, five stars."
Thanks Trump, very insightful.
Thanks Trump, very insightful.
Familienoberhauptvogel
Banned
well Glacial Shard is something like the 2nd most powerful neutral 1 drop with a battlecry
Mobius and pet octopus
Member
I think what you're saying is fair criticism, but I disagree. Glacial shard is an excellent card and deserves a high rating. 4 or 5 easily to me. In fact, it exceeded my initial high expectations. I nailed it as a strong card because it's a cheap quasi-taunt that is difficult to interact with compared to taunts. Even the 5 (or 6?) mana version of this card has seen play in some top tier decks in the past despite being largely relevant to only arena. I think all it takes is one deck to make great use of a card to justify a high rating, otherwise - for example - living mana would be a really low rated card but it's definitely game winning used in the right situation.
And I definitely think meta is the most influential factor on whether a card is good or not. If you rated purify on release a 1/5, you were right. The card's power level has changed since then. You can't judge cards in a vacuum, that is impossible. Context is important. And the meta is context. The cards you can use alongside it is context. Purify wasn't good not only because of the meta at the time, but also because it lacked several important cards to give that sort of deck consistency, shadow visions being a big deal. Shadow visions definitely gave a boost to every priest spell you might want to pull off shadow visions. Context to power level is very important that way. Some people disagree, but if you're looking at a review that is considering how playable it currently is, you can't just call them out for doing it that way. Even dahbomb said his evaluation of devolve (IIRC) was right at the time.
edit:
I'm not saying I agree with every rating brought up, but they're ballpark accurate to me. I haven't watched his review though.
BananasWithGuns
Member
I guess I'm not really keen on the idea of rating a card strictly because of how it performs in the current meta.
Take Umbra for example which he gives 1 star but says to "watch out in the future." A card with high potential like that is not something I would be giving 1 star just because it doesn't see play currently. Similar situation with Blazecaller which he re-reviews at 2 stars because it's not seeing play currently. I mean, that card is still a 5 star card whether elemental decks are meta or not.
But I guess everyone evaluates cards differently.
Take Umbra for example which he gives 1 star but says to "watch out in the future." A card with high potential like that is not something I would be giving 1 star just because it doesn't see play currently. Similar situation with Blazecaller which he re-reviews at 2 stars because it's not seeing play currently. I mean, that card is still a 5 star card whether elemental decks are meta or not.
But I guess everyone evaluates cards differently.
Familienoberhauptvogel
Banned
Umbra sucks. If there were a deathrattle deck it would be with NZoth as is apparent by it seeing no pay at all in Wild.
Mobius and pet octopus
Member
Jade druid? lol
At least miracle rogue beats it... for now.
I sorta get why people were afraid of that deck being too good this expansion. If tar creeper was good enough to beat aggro then the top deck might have been just jade druid with tar creepers.
Trump is very concerned with trying to come up with an "accurate" rating system. Like he's trying to squeeze out any kind of subjectivity out so people don't disagree with any of his re-ratings in his re-review. That's why he looks at cards purely based on whether or not they see play in the meta or not.
Turns out all that does is set himself up for failure and it does a disservice to everyone watching.
Familienoberhauptvogel
Banned
Turns out this priest player didn't play awaken the makers but caverns below and I just didn't pay attention, I only realized it when he completed it!!!
Also yesterday in wild an opponent of mine used sacrificial pact they'd gotten from nefarian to kill a Jaraxxus demon instead of winning the game. I tried adding them to explain but I never got accepted.
Also playing Quest Rogue again I really don't get the nerf. I'm barely winning half my games.
Also yesterday in wild an opponent of mine used sacrificial pact they'd gotten from nefarian to kill a Jaraxxus demon instead of winning the game. I tried adding them to explain but I never got accepted.
Also playing Quest Rogue again I really don't get the nerf. I'm barely winning half my games.
The Mango Sentinel
Member
It's just not a fun deck to play against. You either rush that shit down or you lose.
I mean I have had long games against it that went well beyond 10 turns and they actually were fun games. Trying to figure out how to fend off all those 5/5's can be a fun challenge, but games usually aren't like that.
DyslexicAlucard
Member
I think Kibler explained the issue well in his latest video for Omnislash, but I'll try to break it down here.
1) The deck is extremely popular. That isn't an issue in and of itself, but because it's so popular, people are now teching against it -- as much as you can with such a non-interactive deck. Essentially, that means more aggro. Despite how much people try to counter play it, it still sees a pretty good win percentage. That's an issue. If people are trying to counter a certain deck and still fail often when playing against it, there's a problem.
2) It's repetitive. Because it's a Quest, it always comes into play. The monotonous nature of playing against QR, and the fact that it makes all of their minions the same, stat-wise, adds to this. It makes for boring games that feel like they come down to whether the QR got a good draw or not. Sometimes you can play around it and use skill/tech cards to squeeze out a win, but more often than not, it's all about who draws what -- moreso than usual.
3) Because of 2, it's just not fun to play against. You don't feel in control at all, and the effect is both boring and obnoxious. It's the kind of deck Blizzard should fear, because it can cause people to quit the game entirely. In fact, IIRC, Noxious quit the game (which was making him considerable $$$) to play Gwent instead, partially thanks to QR.
I actually don't think the change will completely kill the deck, but I think it will diminish the amount we see it -- just like when Pirate Warrior fell off after the STB nerf.
Familienoberhauptvogel
Banned
Showmethereceipts.gif
I did a quick check and rogue is somewhere between the 4th or 5th most popular class, with miracle included. The deck is barely being teched against at all. Dirty Rat arguably sees less play than it did before UnGoro.
Not having particularly great tech options might be a bigger issue than the reverse. Mages are forced to play flamestrike because of all the go wide decks but that's almost a dead card in the QR matchup.
The point partly still stands since the deck does promote aggressive decks but for a different reasons, being that it preys upon slow reactive decks good against aggro.
That's by design and nothing against it. Like complaining about Hero Powers being repetitive because they are in every game.
Neither is aggro druid, token shaman, freeze mage (tbf that one got HoFd), pirate warrior,... You either have the answer or you're SOL. That's just a crappy criteria for a nerf.
I'm confident the deck is dead, if you want a control killer Druid is just going to be the better choice.
There are NPE nerfs and competitive nerfs. The former are actually way more meaningful for most of the playerbase, though the latter are splashier and get more coverage, because everyone likes to think of themselves as a top player, or at least be in on the scene. I'd venture QR is more the former.
I decided to take the Quest Rogue plunge this weekend. The quest was my first legendary card from the new expansion, but I've came to hate Quest Rogue because it was super popular and it shit on all the decks I like to play, especially on my free to play accounts (I like to grind the quests every couple of days). I never actually played quest rogue myself until now.
I played 35 games and have a 54% win rate. Nothing exciting, but I went from Rank 19 to Rank 16. I played 3 priests, 1 Quest rogue Mirror, 1 Taunt warrior 5 mages and 25 decks I would consider aggro (Token Druid, Token Shaman, Murloc Paladin, Pirate Warrior).
Even against aggro I was able to keep my 50% win-rate. It should come as no surprise to see all this aggro at the start of the month, not quite sure if they were trying to counter quest rogue as much as climb the ladder quickly.
Am I having fun playing this deck? Sort of. It's a solid 49-51% win ratio deck if you pilot it well. It takes some decision making on my part to eek out the wins, but I can imagine my opponents are frustrated when they lost to my nut draws. I'm not running into a lot of favorable situations, so each win feels pretty well earned, at least in terms of Hearthstone logic.
If anything despite the "balanced" meta I'm a bit discouraged seeing the same druid, shaman, paladin and warrior lists over and over since it feels like I'm being "countered" even though nobody else is playing Quest Rogue at my ranks.
The timing of this nerf really smells like a PR move. It's probably the card the cost them the most players during the initial release of the expansion so nerfing it will probably generate the most buzz to get those players back.
Especially with the announcement that july 6th will start the reveal of the next expansion and Donais saying that if Jade Idol now becomes a problem the new expansion will shake up the meta again in a significant way *winky face*.
Familienoberhauptvogel
Banned
there's stuff in between control and aggro. Any deck needs counters and Quest Rogue vs Midrange can go either way.
I believe at last 3 month
Quest Rogue player always finish at really high legend
some asian dude finish at #1 at asian server with 4 crab QR at first month of Ungoro
last month before this NTR get #2 at NA server and #5 at EU, #1 EU is another guy primarily playing QR
Vicious Syndicate also reporting QR representing 12% of legend rank iirc on last week report.
So deck really performing at highest level actually,
Quest Rogue player always finish at really high legend
some asian dude finish at #1 at asian server with 4 crab QR at first month of Ungoro
last month before this NTR get #2 at NA server and #5 at EU, #1 EU is another guy primarily playing QR
Vicious Syndicate also reporting QR representing 12% of legend rank iirc on last week report.
So deck really performing at highest level actually,
Yeah you fucked up. I picked Muzzy. That means he is doomed. My picks are a curse.
Karsticles
Member
Is it too late to pick someone? Anyone have the link on hand?
Familienoberhauptvogel
Banned
the championship is this weekend.
Picked Kolento
Picked Kolento
https://us.battle.net/hearthstone/e...spring-championship-2017/choose-your-champion
I hate playing against Mage or Priest, but I think the most frustrating games for me are the losses where I feel I learn nothing.
I'd like to at least feel like I improve over time. My last two games were:
1. Rogue with uninteractive board, much like quest rogue, but lots of removal + 14/14 Van Cleef on turn 3-4.
2. I use pirates against a hunter, and they have BOTH crawlers + razormaw to start the game, plus on-curve rhino and highmane in case I somehow survived.
I feel that was kind of bad luck.
Regarding the championship, I picked Kolento. Am I already dead?
I'd like to at least feel like I improve over time. My last two games were:
1. Rogue with uninteractive board, much like quest rogue, but lots of removal + 14/14 Van Cleef on turn 3-4.
2. I use pirates against a hunter, and they have BOTH crawlers + razormaw to start the game, plus on-curve rhino and highmane in case I somehow survived.
I feel that was kind of bad luck.
Regarding the championship, I picked Kolento. Am I already dead?
PhantomThief
Banned
Also picked Muzzy!
Karsticles
Member
Thanks guys! I picked Kolento because picking America feels like an autoloss right now.