Support NeoGAF

[Familienoberhauptvogel]

Burst mana is fine because it becomes a dead drop if you got it after you had 10 mana and a small hand, or you have nothing to combo it with. You've been there. You and your opponent are at 10 HP, you will lose next turn, you need a good card, and you draw innervate.

With UI, you can use a 10 cost and then combo into burst mana in order to bring something out or to utilize a spell/jade idol/hero power. UI caused Innervate to stop being a dead drop at the latter half of a match.

Burst mana is fine in rogue and dialed down to a coin. Making Innervate into an classic coin for rogue would be totally fine too (once counterfeit rotates), that's where it fits.

A curated example for why Innervate can be bad is hardly an argument. Sylvanas is terrible against Weenies, Yogg quite literally can kill you,... worst case scenarios don't factor into these decisions all that often and the times you can get use out of Innervate, even at capped mana, far outweigh those where it's a terrible topdeck.

 

[Mobius and pet octopus]

The thing is that each class has a way to deal with a combo like that, making a Druids innervate+8 card a waste.

Deadly Shot, Hex, Polymorph, Assassinate, Execute, Shadow Word: Death, Equality, Siphon Soul...

...All the classes have strong removal. Hell, the Druids own removal gives an opponent 2 cards!

And it requires a certain set up of cards for Druids to pull off a turn 3 lich king. Luckily for every other class, their removal ranges from 3-6 mana to get value from taking out an 8 cost card.

I don't think you're really understanding the issue here.

 

[Dahbomb]

Man I really don't want to see Innervate in Rogue LMAO!

 

[BreezyLimbo]

I don't think you're really understanding the issue here.

the issue is that people are hating on innervate and not understanding that the issue is the cards surrounding innervate and not innervate itself.

 

[fertygo]

They probably nerf UI to no armor and no damage. I think that's fine and card still will be good.

I don't think they would remove the 5/5 because it has a play sound lol, must feed.

My main problem with beating druid right now is their armor gain actually, it's too much. Cards like scale should have not been printed.

No Armor is no nerf at all, what the hell

Its either Ghoul or the damage

Btw I actually fine with the draw, made more draw engine so they can throw Auctioneer to HoF is idea I can get behind. I hope Rogue get flash draw engine too

 

[Familienoberhauptvogel]

Man I really don't want to see Innervate in Rogue LMAO!

as a coin, basically make a classic version of counterfeit coin as that one is themed after Jade.

the issue is that people are hating on innervate and not understanding that the issue is the cards surrounding innervate and not innervate itself.

so instead of going after the enabler nerf the cards it enables? The issue is innervate. Fledgling is terrible when you can't power him or early or buff it out of removal range.

 

[Mobius and pet octopus]

Man I really don't want to see Innervate in Rogue LMAO!

Innervate in rogue would surely be broken, but mostly because they already have coin and prep. Lets say they lost coin and prep and got innervate, it'd be less broken than in druid because at least rogue is less an all around class, such as they don't have strong heals and taunts. And really few high mana cost cards that would benefit from being innervated out early.

the issue is that people are hating on innervate and not understanding that the issue is the cards surrounding innervate and not innervate itself.

No, the issue is in design space as Reynad pointed out. Did you watch the video? The cards surrounding innervate are fine. Lich king is a fine card. Ragnaros was a fine card (RNG made it shitty, thank god it's gone to standard). Even UI to some extent is an okay card. Innervate is the issue in aggro, midrange, and control. It's not the cards surrounding innervate. I can only think of maybe 1 card druid surrounding should get nerfed and that is UI. Sorry, it's not the cards innervate is used on, it's innervate.

 

[kirblar]

I think that Blizzard should consider an "addendum" set for release once a year for Standard, kinda like Core Sets in MTG used to be. Something where you have a set selection of older cards that re-enter Standard and are added to base/classic along with the expansions. You could charge a set price for it like the Adventures where you can add a set of the cards to your account (once per account), with players able to dust dupes.

 

[Pooya]

No Armor is no nerf at all, what the hell

Its either Ghoul or the damage

Btw I actually fine with the draw, made more draw engine so they can throw Auctioneer to HoF is idea I can get behind. I hope Rogue get flash draw engine too

Of course it is, time and time again they get out of range because of that 5 armor, it's a lot. You're spending whole turn to play a card, if it can get you out of range too it makes it far more playable because you can't die, duh.

remove damage and armor, suddenly you're ~10 hp closer to losing.

 

[TankUP]

Btw I actually fine with the draw, made more draw engine so they can throw Auctioneer to HoF is idea I can get behind. I hope Rogue get flash draw engine too

Rogues can Prep Sprint like God intended.

 

[Mobius and pet octopus]

I agree that losing the armor is not a big deal at all. Losing the 5 damage is a big deal. Letting druid deal with a medium/large threat the same turn they draw 5 cards and play a 5/5 is insanely strong.

 

[cartographer]

I don't even think innervate is the most broken basic / classic class card in the game. Maybe no. 3? I'd have to give it some thought. Ice Block and War Axe are worse.

 

[BreezyLimbo]

You're all just jealous Druid is top dog now

innervate is a fine wholesome card

 

[fertygo]

Of course it is, time and time again they get out of range because of that 5 armor, it's a lot. You're spending whole turn to play a card, if it can get you out of range too it makes it far more playable because you can't die, duh.

remove damage and armor, suddenly you're ~10 hp closer to losing.

Its a great bonus sure, but its still fireland portal with flash draw

Druid player laughing to high legend rank if losing 5 armor is the nerf

You're all just jealous Druid is top dog now

innervate is a fine wholesome card

Druid is always top dog.

 

[Yaboosh]

I want to try taunt druid or big druid out but mirror matches are the worst thing in hearthstone so that's out.

 

[Familienoberhauptvogel]

You're all just jealous Druid is top dog now

innervate is a fine wholesome card

I crafted a golden Malfurion and I've been playing Druid since token druid became a thing during Old Gods.

In my experience Innervate has always been busted, even when it just made some additional 1/1s. It just let's you do more than other classes and Druid never was terrible at recovering from a card disadvantage.

 

[fertygo]

I want to try taunt druid or big druid out but mirror matches are the worst thing in hearthstone so that's out.

Eh not really, avoiding give opponent better plague is game dynamic that all other matchup in HS do not have

 

[Yaboosh]

Eh not really, avoiding give opponent better plague is game dynamic that all other matchup in HS do not have

A lot of people like mirror matches i know but i really can't stand them.

 

[Familienoberhauptvogel]

Eh not really, avoiding give opponent better plague is game dynamic that all other matchup in HS do not have

living mana is such a gamble in the mirror.

 

[A Pretty Panda]

Pretty hard to deal with Rotface when all your cards cost 5

 

[Yaboosh]

Pretty hard to deal with Rotface when all your cards cost 5

I used control warrior for the last two encounters. Just remove all the stuff they play and armor up.

Eater of secrets obviously for the putricide encounter.

 

[TankUP]

Is it still too early to call Frozen Throne a dud for Warriors? The only archetype even being tracked on vSS is Pirate Warrior, and most PirWar on ladder aren't using any new cards at all.

I haven't seen a non-Pirate Warrior since the first day of the set, and even streamers seem to have given up on making new decks work.

 

[Yaboosh]

Dog seemed high on that mill warrior.

 

[slightconfuse]

I have been trying to play a mid range warrior with N'zoth.

 

[TankUP]

Dog seemed high on that mill warrior.

If only it was a viable deck and not just a stunt to grab viewers.

 

[Hybris]

Is it still too early to call Frozen Throne a dud for Warriors? The only archetype even being tracked on vSS is Pirate Warrior, and most PirWar on ladder aren't using any new cards at all.

I haven't seen a non-Pirate Warrior since the first day of the set, and even streamers seem to have given up on making new decks work.

Too early to call, but it's not looking good. You can point to shaman in un'goro as an example of a late bloomer, but that situation is quite different because it of the rotation.

 

[BigJonsson]

Sindragosa is no match for C'Thun

 

[A Pretty Panda]

Well that worked

 

[TankUP]

https://www.vicioussyndicate.com/early-frontrunners-knights-frozen-throne/

vSS early report on the best five decks. Spoilers: Druid is pretty good.

 

[Wafflecakes]

What the fuck.

How come tavern brawl wins are not counting towards my quests. I swear they use to...

 

[Tacitus_]

https://www.vicioussyndicate.com/early-frontrunners-knights-frozen-throne/

vSS early report on the best five decks. Spoilers: Druid is pretty good.

I wonder if I should craft a BGH again...

 

[Tomcat]

when are we gonna get the single player content on EU?

 

[Keyser Soze]

when are we gonna get the single player content on EU?

1/2 AM BST probably. Like the launch of the expansion. There is also a chance it might go up at the daily reset time... 11PM

 

[The Last One]

I wish anytime I lost to a Druid I could auto message the player something like "Congratz, you won using a broken deck."

Yes, I'm salty.

 

[wiibomb]

https://www.vicioussyndicate.com/early-frontrunners-knights-frozen-throne/

vSS early report on the best five decks. Spoilers: Druid is pretty good.

weird, that jade druid list doesn't seem that good to me. I got the feeling that kun is never played in jade druid decklists, or black knight. I'm starting to see BGH in some of them, but I didn't know it the popular enough

 

[Tacitus_]

weird, that jade druid list doesn't seem that good to me. I got the feeling that kun is never played in jade druid decklists, or black knight. I'm starting to see BGH in some of them, but I didn't know it the popular enough

TBK oneshots Tirions, Lich Kings and whatnots. I can see it being useful. Kun is a bit curious though.

 

[dimb]

weird, that jade druid list doesn't seem that good to me. I got the feeling that kun is never played in jade druid decklists, or black knight.

This is the more refined list that is starting to show up more and more. Kun is great with UI. Black Knight is an important removal tool that slots best into stuff like Druid.

 

[Tagyhag]

Almost beat Purtricide on my first try and of course he gets a clutch vaporize. *salty*

 

[Keyser Soze]

Oh wow, my latest game was a wild ride thanks to Frozen Clone...

 

[Karsticles]

Why not just run a deck that has a good match-up against Jade Druid?

the issue is that people are hating on innervate and not understanding that the issue is the cards surrounding innervate and not innervate itself.

Innervate into Fledgling on turn one is not okay.

 

[wiibomb]

TBK oneshots Tirions, Lich Kings and whatnots. I can see it being useful. Kun is a bit curious though.

yeah, that's why I'm starting to see it now, may be I should replace my spellbreaker for BGH

This is the more refined list that is starting to show up more and more. Kun is great with UI. Black Knight is an important removal tool that slots best into stuff like Druid.

I'm not sure it is a more refined list, even if Kun is good, it is usually a card that hold little value, a 7/7 is not enough to how quickly jades ramp and the UI combo is rare. I remain skeptical of it, black knight on the other hand is really good right now, so I see the point.

 

[Blizzard]

Why not just run a deck that has a good match-up against Jade Druid?


Innervate into Fledgling on turn one is not okay.

It's strong, but oddly enough the number of times I attempted that and got immediately deleted by Fiery War Axe / taunt / frost bolt were kind of crazy. And even if it didn't happen, I would get crap evolution options a lot of the time allowing for turn 2-3 removal, plus I've now lost 1 of my 2 innervate chances.

 

[Grief.exe]

What plays does the Alchemist open up in these decks?

 

[Mobius and pet octopus]

What plays does the Alchemist open up in these decks?

Kills doomsayer, and any other 0 attack minions.

 

[Familienoberhauptvogel]

What plays does the Alchemist open up in these decks?

Burst from the high health taunts as well as pushing through high health low power taunts and killing doomsayers w/o taking time off the clock.

 

[dimb]

What plays does the Alchemist open up in these decks?

Doomsayer counter or swap the high HP taunt minions Druid has now for burst.

 

[ZealousD]

Why not just run a deck that has a good match-up against Jade Druid?

The decks with the best winrates against Jade Druid are old decks. Nobody wants to spend their opening weeks in an expansion playing Pirate Warrior again.

 

[Tacitus_]

What plays does the Alchemist open up in these decks?

Flips your guys with more HP than attack for bursts or flips enemy taunts for easier trading I presume. That's what I use it for in arena anyway.

 

[BreezyLimbo]

It's strong, but oddly enough the number of times I attempted that and got immediately deleted by Fiery War Axe / taunt / frost bolt were kind of crazy. And even if it didn't happen, I would get crap evolution options a lot of the time allowing for turn 2-3 removal, plus I've now lost 1 of my 2 innervate chances.

yup

fledgling is too inconsistent to be deemed as one of the reasons why someone would think that innervate is OP. And Warriors/Mages/Priests have too consistent turn 2 removal.

 

[Razakin]

What the fuck.

How come tavern brawl wins are not counting towards my quests. I swear they use to...

Might be because it's a random class and Blizz fucked up coding up somewhere? At least with "win x matche with y class" quests don't work, others do.