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Hearthstone |OT9| Our raid wiped in Icecrown Citadel

TankUP

Member
not to mention quest mage is really bad mu unless they get super lucky with the draw and antonidas is in the bottom of mage deck.

I think once Priests learn how to properly play that match-up (and put anti-secret tech in) they'll end up edging positive vs q mage.

ben brode just mentioned on reddit that the giant decks with naga sea witch are about 50% winrate and hasn't been optimized yet, they plan to act on a nerf if they see it going too far from there.

I hate it. I hate it. I hate it. I don't care if it has a 1 percent winrate, it's stupid and needs to GTFO.

lol playing wild

Yo, sometimes I get quests I don't want to do in standard, and I try to avoid casual because I like seeing my ranked wins go up.
 

wiibomb

Member
I am tempted to make that giant deck (whatever the list is since no one links it), but I lack the clockwork giants and not sure if I should craft both for only this.
 

Yaboosh

Super Sleuth
I am tempted to make that giant deck (whatever the list is since no one links it), but I lack the clockwork giants and not sure if I should craft both for only this.


I feel like it will be changed and most of the giants will be worthless post reversion so it's a risky craft.
 
T

thepotatoman

Unconfirmed Member
I think they might regret the soft nerf on spreading plague. Hopefully the innervate nerf lives up to my expectations and throws the deck out of whack because of how often innervate smooths out your curves or accelerates your game plan.

Is one mana that soft?

I guess those turn 10 super frost nova uses might still be a problem, but one extra turn before it comes out against aggro is always huge.
 

TankUP

Member
I feel like the innervate nerf is such a big deal. It's really going to hurt the consistency of all the tier 1 Druid decks. It probably doesn't kill those decks, but should killing a deck be their goal?
 
Weird question, seeing people's reactions over the nerfs, do people really just play top tier decks every time? Is everything really just about Ladder viability?
I care about archetypes being fun and at least remotely viable. If your deck can't do anything it's really designed to do, then it's sort of hard to have fun with the cards. That doesn't necessarily mean winning, but there's a strong correlation between the two.

For instance, secret hunter is a bad deck, but I've been playing a lot of secret hunter to use the DK card, which is fun. I can generally get decent use out of it, but if I was dead on T5 every game then i wouldn't be having fun with that card.

I like Zoo. Zoo sucks and can't do what it's designed to do in this meta, so it's hard to have fun with zoo.
 
T

thepotatoman

Unconfirmed Member
I am tempted to make that giant deck (whatever the list is since no one links it), but I lack the clockwork giants and not sure if I should craft both for only this.

You don't have to have clockwork giants as long as you have the other giants. You do want at least 8 giants or else the combo becomes a lot more inconsistent early on, and makes you run out of fuel later on.

I think this one is probably good and has proven it into legend:

https://www.reddit.com/r/CompetitiveHS/comments/6xzjij/rank_1_legend_with_infinite_giants/

This is my deck with 70% winrate to rank 5, but the other deck is probably more suited for arcane giants, since mine is lighter on spells:

Decklist

#
AAEBAZICBPoO6RXsFZnTAg1figHTAf4BxAbhB+QI3Aq5Ed4W5MICoM0Ch84CAA==
#
# To use this deck, copy it to your clipboard and create a new deck in Hearthstone
 

wiibomb

Member
I feel like the innervate nerf is such a big deal. It's really going to hurt the consistency of all the tier 1 Druid decks. It probably doesn't kill those decks, but should killing a deck be their goal?

at the very least it will delay significantly their possible answers to things. even ramping.

and also, no more UIs before 7 mana (at the earliest), which makes it significantly more difficult to fill their hands quickly

You don't have to have clockwork giants as long as you have the other giants. You do want at least 8 giants or else the combo becomes a lot more inconsistent early on, and makes you run out of fuel later on.

I think this one is probably good and has proven it into legend:

https://www.reddit.com/r/CompetitiveHS/comments/6xzjij/rank_1_legend_with_infinite_giants/

This is my deck with 70% winrate to rank 5, just replace clockwork with arcane, which might be better anyhow:

Decklist

#
AAEBAZICBPoO6RXsFZnTAg1figHTAf4BxAbhB+QI3Aq5Ed4W5MICoM0Ch84CAA==
#
# To use this deck, copy it to your clipboard and create a new deck in Hearthstone

that's a nice list, I'll try it without the clockwork giants since I'm not confident in crafting them yet
 

Schnauzer

Member
Naga VS Naga has a 50% win-rate... Well played Ben.

Seriously over half the games I play in wild are these naga decks. I'm climbing with a priest counter, but anything else...forget it and hope you get naga first.
 
T

thepotatoman

Unconfirmed Member
that's a nice list, I'll try it without the clockwork giants since I'm not confident in crafting them yet

Even if naga isn't nerfed, Druid is, so it's definitely worth waiting on that craft.

I've heard people say it's broken in other classes too, but I haven't tried it or seen any that could beat me.
 

Schnauzer

Member
Even if naga isn't nerfed, Druid is, so it's definitely worth waiting on that craft.

I've heard people say it's broken in other classes too, but I haven't tried it or seen any that could beat me.

I think the Hunter version is better than the Druid version to be honest. The Warlock version is good too.
 

Schnauzer

Member
Going all in on the Crypt Lord against Priest was dumb, but if I had been playing basically any other deck and had not been able to double rez my Obsidian Statue, I would have lost that game. His top decks were insane.

Both had the perfect starts for the deck they were playing/playing against. The Druid had misplays and lost. I guess I don't see the problem. I sometimes concede when I realize I cost my own game, and just move on. Usually when my fiance is distracting me.

If anything this shows that Priest even with the perfect start could lose.
 

Q8D3vil

Member
I think once Priests learn how to properly play that match-up (and put anti-secret tech in) they'll end up edging positive vs q mage.



I hate it. I hate it. I hate it. I don't care if it has a 1 percent winrate, it's stupid and needs to GTFO.



Yo, sometimes I get quests I don't want to do in standard, and I try to avoid casual because I like seeing my ranked wins go up.
I didn't play tons of that mu because i rarely see quest mage, but its really hard to even get them to 0 because priest is really passive in the first 5 turns so they can just draw cards and freeze you indifinitely until they complete the quest.
 

Schnauzer

Member
I didn't play tons of that mu because i rarely see quest mage, but its really hard to even get them to 0 because priest is really passive in the first 5 turns so they can just draw cards and freeze you indifinitely until they complete the quest.

The only way I beat Quest Mage as priest is a good Devour Mind. They are never prepared for a priest shooting out there own damage spells and think they have more time than they do. Outside of that, forget it.

I did fatigue one by getting an ice block. Talk about a rewarding game.
 
The only way I beat Quest Mage as priest is a good Devour Mind. They are never prepared for a priest shooting out there own damage spells and think they have more time than they do. Outside of that, forget it.

I did fatigue one by getting an ice block. Talk about a rewarding game.
Combo Priest!
 

Htown

STOP SHITTING ON MY MOTHER'S HEADSTONE
From Vicious Syndicate:
The KFT meta is more stale after a month than the Un’Goro meta was 4 months after its release.

Damn, they're not wrong.

I miss the Un'Goro meta.
 

Kangi

Member
Warrior may be garbage in arena, but I've managed to play a Violet Illusionist into a Fool's Bane twice in as many matches, and it's hilarious. The second time, I even Grimestreet Pawnbroker'd it beforehand.
 
Is one mana that soft?

I guess those turn 10 super frost nova uses might still be a problem, but one extra turn before it comes out against aggro is always huge.

They even admitted themselves they were going to do 7 but figured the innervate nerf would make up for it.

Against aggro it is a more impactful change. But it should actually be more imo, druid's main weakness should be falling behind on board. Even 6 mana plague might be too much tbh. But we'll see.
 
It's amazing to me how often I see people misplay the Hunter DK. If your opponent is sub 10 health, you're much, much safer keeping Steady Shot -- especially if your opponent isn't Priest or Warrior. Yet time and again, whether against me or a streamer, I see Hunters getting close to closing out a game, only to play the DK, lose control of the board, and never recover.

I get that it's fun to play Deathstalker Rexxar. Heck, it's probably the most fun DK in the game. But there are times to use it and times not to use it.

Who knows, maybe there are so few "good" times to use it as a Hunter that people are just saying "fuck it."
 

Yaboosh

Super Sleuth
It's amazing to me how often I see people misplay the Hunter DK. If your opponent is sub 10 health, you're much, much safer keeping Steady Shot -- especially if your opponent isn't Priest or Warrior. Yet time and again, whether against me or a streamer, I see Hunters getting close to closing out a game, only to play the DK, lose control of the board, and never recover.

I get that it's fun to play Deathstalker Rexxar. Heck, it's probably the most fun DK in the game. But there are times to use it and times not to use it.

Who knows, maybe there are so few "good" times to use it as a Hunter that people are just saying "fuck it."


Nobody plays hunter to actually win. Because it's hunter.
 
It's amazing to me how often I see people misplay the Hunter DK. If your opponent is sub 10 health, you're much, much safer keeping Steady Shot -- especially if your opponent isn't Priest or Warrior. Yet time and again, whether against me or a streamer, I see Hunters getting close to closing out a game, only to play the DK, lose control of the board, and never recover.

I get that it's fun to play Deathstalker Rexxar. Heck, it's probably the most fun DK in the game. But there are times to use it and times not to use it.

Who knows, maybe there are so few "good" times to use it as a Hunter that people are just saying "fuck it."

I played Deathstalker Rexxar against DK Anduin, and just...why bother playing the game? DK Anduin killed me in a few turns anyway. Imagine if Rexxar got the DK Anduin power: refresh Steady Shot every time you play a card. Would it even be played without Raza?
 
I played Deathstalker Rexxar against DK Anduin, and just...why bother playing the game? DK Anduin killed me in a few turns anyway. Imagine if Rexxar got the DK Anduin power: refresh Steady Shot every time you play a card. Would it even be played without Raza?

They're completely different classes though. If anything, it would probably be even more OP in Hunter because of its access to more damage. Hard to say though.

Plus, as a Hunter you need to close the game out against a Priest quickly. If it's turn 8, they should be wanting to keep their healing power because you (hopefully) have worn them down by that point. Again, more reason to keep Steady Shot.

If you're playing a more controlling Hunter though, well, that's probably a bad matchup regardless.
 

ZealousD

Makes world leading predictions like "The sun will rise tomorrow"
Both had the perfect starts for the deck they were playing/playing against. The Druid had misplays and lost. I guess I don't see the problem. I sometimes concede when I realize I cost my own game, and just move on. Usually when my fiance is distracting me.

If anything this shows that Priest even with the perfect start could lose.

The point is how obscenely broken both of our starts went. My opponent had three minions out on Turn 1, with one of the minions having 8 freaking health. He had 11 damage on board by Turn 3. He nearly killed me on TURN FOUR. And yet, I was able to recover and win only because I got a perfect roll on Barnes AND had two Eternal Servitudes in hand.

We were both able to make the most insanely stupid plays imaginable.
 
They're completely different classes though. If anything, it would probably be even more OP in Hunter because of its access to more damage. Hard to say though.

Plus, as a Hunter you need to close the game out against a Priest quickly. If it's turn 8, they should be wanting to keep their healing power because you (hopefully) have worn them down by that point. Again, more reason to keep Steady Shot.

If you're playing a more controlling Hunter though, well, that's probably a bad matchup regardless.

If not for DK Anduin being crazy OP, I would have won the match of attrition. I wore my opponent's Reno Priest down through a Reno AND Aymara.
 

Kangi

Member
The arena experience™ is drafting two Deathwings and literally never seeing them across seven matches

and I mean literally never

including during the mulligans
 

nynt9

Member
Somebody help me with Mage against the lich king. I'm gonna lose my mind. I tried quest exodia, molten giant, kabal lackey + counterspell, nothing works D:
 
Just go straight murloc

Pretty much this. I used a Reddit guide for budget Lich King decks. The Mage one, from what I remember, was murloc-based. It focused on getting early board control and snowballing quickly. LK doesn't have any direct damage except Frostmourne, so the gameplan is to win before turn 7.
 

Crazyorloco

Member
I feel like the innervate nerf is such a big deal. It's really going to hurt the consistency of all the tier 1 Druid decks. It probably doesn't kill those decks, but should killing a deck be their goal?

It's too dominant right now. I think it needed this. it feels so freaking good beating a Druid player nowadays (feels like I'm beating boss character).

Priest is going to be the top class I think now, and the other classes will have a greater shot at winning.
 

G.ZZZ

Member
Naga Giants wrecks control and midrange so damn hard that you have plenty of room to throw in all the anti-aggro tech you want. You can basically make aggro 50% winrate like that and still keep your 90% winrate against control.

Wrong. The Giant deck has a lot of counterplay. Try playing it.

First of all, if you're aggro, you're mostly favored. The best variant of Giants vs aggro, Druid, is still unfavored and it's gonna get gutted as the nerfs come. Sure, Pirate warrior will be nerfed as well, but aggro shaman is potentially even better against it cause of devolve countering Spreading plague and taunts in general and much higher burst from hand with lava burst.

Second, there are giants that are good against control (clockwork, mountain) and giants that are good vs aggro (molten, sea). Molten and Sea are basically unplayable vs any control player that know his shit. In Giant druid, since you have the least manipulation, your giants will often be too slow to avoid clears from the control list, and innervate going is gonna reinforce this problem even more. Mass ramp will also make mountain usually cost mana even with naga out, which, again, open for counterplay. The only real strong giant in this situation is clockwork, which however is a dead card vs aggro.

Giant Hunter is much more consistent in getting giants out with naga on T5 thanks to tracking, elekk and tracker, but it run 0 decent anti-aggro tools, with the best one being easily avoidable ones like scientist->explosive, and then it has no way to stabilize after playign giants, as it play neither heals nor taunts. Also, no actual card draw means that on T5 you won't put down enough damage to kill your opponent in one turn, meaning aggro has virtually up to T6 uncontested, which in wild will just leave you dead.

I've played both decks a significant lot, and none of them felt too good to me. They're just insanely highrolly in the sense that IF you draw naga and IF you draw the right giants for your matchup you're probably gonna win, which is really not that much different from any deck which isn't a slow control one. They absolutely kill certain decks, but it's nowhere as "inevitable" as quest rogue was pre-nerf (since that deck could easily OTK after quest with gang-up patches for example) since it's much worse at reloading, and quest rogue was unplayable in wild anyway. Lots of people at the beginning just played wrong against it, like attacking with control decks making molten playable instead of just waiting to slow them down enough and giving you time for answers.

Just as example, decks that are doing good vs it:

- highlander priest which i still think is the best deck right now in wild
- dudes paladin, both aggro and midrange, which play double equality, or even single equality but a faster deck. Not clearing dudes fast and often means that dudes paladin is potentially the fastest aggro deck around with stegodons and buffs. Equality can also easily clear a giant board, and spikeridged steed gains at least two turns which are all you need as an aggro deck to finish the job.
- aggro shaman. No giant deck has a favorable MU vs this, with Druid losing its best tools against it in the nerfs (plague+ innervate). After the nerfs, the deck will be an absolute dog to it.
- aggro druid. No questions here, aggro druid lose innervate, but can just lower the curve and go even wider. No giant deck is racing this.

As for other decks:

- renolock can play bloodbloom twisting or just play a 4 turn mountain/drake + PO + shadowflame
- control shaman is dead, but it probably was already dead because of jade druid
- same for control warrior which also lost one of its best cards gg.
- jade druid is heavily unfavored, but plague + doomsayer is still a 90% clear against giant decks. This may be an actual buff in disguise to control decks since jade druid has much more inevitability than giants whatever which can only flood the board twice in a game.

All of this may not apply to Giantlock, since i've never played or saw it, but i have a suspicion that it may actually be the deck that could break the card as it has insane consistency from its hero power to play both molten and mountain regularly no matter the matchup, and play them in droves.

Also, honestly, the meta (in wild) would've been more balanced if they didn't touch either axe or hex. But this is another matter.
 

Dahbomb

Member
Giant Handlock is probably the best version of the giants deck. Here's why:


*Mountain Giant is a card you play in Handlock decks anyway. Unlike those other Giants deck, Warlock can actually make use of the card even without Naga.

*Warlock is most likely to lower HP by 5 even against other Control decks to enable 0 mana Molten Giants on turn 5. Neither Druids nor Hunter can do this meaning often against something like Priest they can't actually play 0 mana Moltens on turn 5..

*Warlock has innate card draw that they want to be doing which means more consistently drawing into Naga by turn 5. Druid can't start doing flash draw until turn 5 really so for Druid, you kinda need to get Naga within those first 5 turns without much additional draw (so less consistent). Hunter is the same, like yea you can get Stitched tracker which increases your odds but it's not significantly better than Warlock. And more importantly, Warlock is able to get more Giants to play with Naga... a Naga with a single Giant can get answered.

*Warlock can actually counter other giant decks well. It has Twisting Nether but more importantly it has Shadowflame. They can easily Shadowflame one of their giants to wipe a whole board of giants and then win the game off of it. They can also counter the Spreading Plague stall (you usually only do this when you have lethal against Druid). This incidentally ALSO counters Frost Nova + Doomsayer, giving up one Giant to preserve your board is a miniscule cost to play because if those giants connect face it's lights out.

*Warlock has a ton of anti aggro cards that you absolutely need to play in a deck like this: Defile, Demonwrath, Hellflame, Shadowflame, Doomsayer, Mortal Coil etc. Druid and Hunter anti aggro options kind suck and Druid's anti aggro tools are about to get even worse. This might also be a deck where you might consider using Bloodbloom (MAYBE...).



I do agree that just regular Priest with Lightbombs/Anduins and Control/Midrange Paladin can easily beat these giants deck. Well not really easily... the giants deck can easily high roll and force an answer, otherwise it's a game loss on the spot.

It's essentially have your board wipe by turn 5-6 or you lose. It's like a more extreme example of Vicious Fledgling. This is the main reason why these Giant decks are garbage in terms of play.
 
T

thepotatoman

Unconfirmed Member
Wrong. The Giant deck has a lot of counterplay. Try playing it.

Dude, i've played it to rank 5 in just the first week with a 47-23 record. Don't tell me to "try playing it". I know what I'm talking about. The problem is everyone else playing it wrong.

Most of the Counter-play you're talking about can be easily counter-counter played. Like you don't have to go all in them having the board clear and can rebuild in just one turn and you don't need all your giants to cost exactly 0 and to go off at exactly 5 mana.

It's baffling to me that you think Sea Giant and Molton Giant are "basically unplayable" vs control. If he plays any minion, your hero power allows you to damage yourself, and you don't have to armor up at the start even if you're floating 2 mana. And Sea giant doesn't need any enemy minions to become cheap enough after playing your other giants. The less wide they go, the easier Druid can clear, so I'm not even sure it's correct to ever play around sea giant in druid.

I do admit that Hunter or Warlock might be better. I only ever tried warrior which was ok and maybe could be refined to good, and druid which is currently OP but might not be after nerfs. I think the warlock version probably suits my style better since I don't like having polarized matchups.
 

A Pretty Panda

fuckin' called it, man
Got Arthas, wasn't as bad when I tried the first week. Don't get me wrong it was completely frustrating at times but thank god for net decking lol. Shaman was the class that made me give it up the first time, class took the longest to win with this time taking over an hour.
 

Fewr

Member
Oh God, we had an 8.1 earthquake last night. It was scary. Sorry for off topic, I just woke up and remembered.
Nothing happened over here, it was just the scare of intensity and time, it just wouldn't stop. It happened at 00:00hrs or very close.

Alright, carrying on..

I want to try a P2W (Big) priest this weekend, but I'm not sure how it will do after nerfs so I'll wait.
Also, I was hoping a divine shield Paladin would emerge from KFT, but nothing so far. I hope the nerfs let the KFT cards shine a bit more.
 

Bunga

Member
I'm not sure there is better BM in the game than using the "Well Played" emote as Kel Thuzad in this weeks Tavern Brawl just as your opponent is exploding from defeat.

"Of course I played well, I'm Kel-freaking-Thuzad"
 

sibarraz

Banned
Oh God, we had an 8.1 earthquake last night. It was scary. Sorry for off topic, I just woke up and remembered.
Nothing happened over here, it was just the scare of intensity and time, it just wouldn't stop. It happened at 00:00hrs or very close.

Alright, carrying on..

I want to try a P2W (Big) priest this weekend, but I'm not sure how it will do after nerfs so I'll wait.
Also, I was hoping a divine shield Paladin would emerge from KFT, but nothing so far. I hope the nerfs let the KFT cards shine a bit more.

That was a big ass earthquake, i hope that you and your beloved ones are fine
 
Lol @ trying to justify giants. It isn't just about whether a deck has counters. If one deck roflstomps half of the meta, that isn't healthy. Wild sucks to play right now. It isn't fun at all when you face one of these decks. Worse than aggro.

Has anyone tried Quest Rogue with the new Rogue DK? I am intensely curious but don't want to spend the dust on the quest.

I think this highlight will trigger Karticles, lol.

https://youtu.be/k6RmB13FkPM?t=8m52s



It only took me a few tries. As always, YMMV, but hopefully it won't take you too long either!
This bullshit right here is what I'm talking about. If you change how Raza interacts with the new hero power, this kind of stuff wouldn't happen. My stomach tensed up as that turn went on.

Somebody help me with Mage against the lich king. I'm gonna lose my mind. I tried quest exodia, molten giant, kabal lackey + counterspell, nothing works D:
I got it try 1 with Exodia + Lackey draw. I suggest you keep trying.
 
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