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Hearthstone |OT9| Our raid wiped in Icecrown Citadel

F

fertygo

Member
Secret Mage destroy other mage deck real hard from what I watch in asmodai stream tho

The win percentage in CN vs EU tourney is low because afaik only omegazero that brought it and his build is super jank

Altho secret mage does really suck vs aggro and midrange while burn mage is really good vs those.
 
F

fertygo

Member
I just getting legend with that pirate warrior lol..

Damn its massive headache keep praying they not golakka you.. you just lose on the spot if théy golakka you.. you get behind like 6 mana behind mathematically.
 
W

wiibomb

Member
fertygo said:
I just getting legend with that pirate warrior lol..

Damn its massive headache keep praying they not golakka you.. you just lose on the spot if théy golakka you.. you get behind like 6 mana behind mathematically.
Click to expand...

or potion of madness, seriously that card messes my whole game plan, I usually end up losing because of it.

oddly enough, I have seen a lot of priests on rank 10
 
F

fertygo

Member
wiibomb said:
or potion of madness, seriously that card messes my whole game plan, I usually end up losing because of it.

oddly enough, I have seen a lot of priests on rank 10
Click to expand...
Potion of madness is far easier to play around as pirate warr than as hunter because the minion not had deadrattle and has charge.. something that look inefficient like trade methodically to get your frothing 4/4 can win you game.
 
W

wiibomb

Member
taking a different approach at pirate warrior, now I'm trying to mulligan based on the percentage of times people keep the specific card in hand based on hsreplays.

and... it got better! now I need to know if the plays I'm making are good enough, I feel I trading minions is not good enough on this deck, also, I might be holding cards for value and I'm not sure if that's a good approach.

I usually hold off on a bloodsail cultist if I don't have another pirate, same on a naga cursair if I don't have a weapon. that's incorrect, right?
 
P

Pooya

Member
I just picked up secret mage after v/s report and climbed from 10 to 5 on EU in an hour. Feels strong right now but I felt my wins partly came from misplays by my opponents and their confusion. Like these paladins were picking eye for and eye or no one plays around 2 counterspells. I don't know how much staying power the deck has after it's opened up to the masses but it's good in this very moment. want to get quick rank 5, legend or whatever. get on it. It works...
 
L

Lone_Prodigy

Member
wiibomb said:
taking a different approach at pirate warrior, now I'm trying to mulligan based on the percentage of times people keep the specific card in hand based on hsreplays.

and... it got better! now I need to know if the plays I'm making are good enough, I feel I trading minions is not good enough on this deck, also, I might be holding cards for value and I'm not sure if that's a good approach.

I usually hold off on a bloodsail cultist if I don't have another pirate, same on a naga cursair if I don't have a weapon. that's incorrect, right?
Click to expand...

Cultist and corsair are good because you don't always need the battlecry. The body is a threat and a better play than armoring up.
 
B

Blizzard

Banned
miladesn said:
I just picked up secret mage after v/s report and climbed from 10 to 5 on EU in an hour. Feels strong right now but I felt my wins partly came from misplays by my opponents and their confusion. Like these paladins were picking eye for and eye or no one plays around 2 counterspells. I don't know how much staying power the deck has after it's opened up to the masses but it's good in this very moment. want to get quick rank 5, legend or whatever. get on it. It works...
Click to expand...
I've been stuck at rank 10 for ages but I've been refusing to play secret mage. I really dislike that deck's existence.
 
B

BananasWithGuns

Member
Kibler's points are a greater issue with quests in general, or more specifically the Rogue, Warrior, Mage and to a lesser extent Warlock quests. Once you satisfy the condition it's as close to an auto win as it gets. Quests shouldn't have been a thing that just outright puts your opponent on a timer.

Quests should have been designed more like Priest, Shaman, Hunter and Druid. Really powerful effects that have the potential to swing a game but at the same time can be planned for and potentially combated.
 
W

wiibomb

Member
the whole point of the quest is basically making an archetype by itself, it limits the deck to be built around it, but also gives enough reward to make it compelling to be played.

no, I don't think the quest mechanic is as bad as people are putting it, the whole point of it is to make a deck that plays the same, not all decks need to be this huge interactive game all the time.

quest rogue is a problem for sure, because of how it is so independent of itself and the card draw, it also is limited in the amount of things the opponent can do about it given the power level it has once it is completed.

I definitely believe quest rogue should be changed with some of the things kibler said, but I don't think that criticism aplied to the other quests. May be freeze mage, but as a whole not the quest variant
 
M

Mulgrok

Member
Primordial glyph is one of those cards where if my oponent uses it they get perfect answers most of the time, but 3/3 times I use it in arena and I get complete trash spells that do nothing. GG bliz
 
S

Sande

Member
Is midrange still as meaningless of a label as it was in the heyday of "midrange" hunter?

Because having a couple of cards that are not completely about going face is still aggro in my book. It's not a meaningful distinction for me.

(this is sort of re: only 2 aggro decks in the game)
 
L

Lyng

Member
Sande said:
Is midrange still as meaningless of a label as it was in the heyday of "midrange" hunter?

Because having a couple of cards that are not completely about going face is still aggro in my book. It's not a meaningful distinction for me.

(this is sort of re: only 2 aggro decks in the game)
Click to expand...

Midrange hunter is very much midrange. Especially compared to pirate and token druid.

Man if there is one thing that can almost make me tilt its getting one win away from rank 10 and then going on a loosing streak against the most insane topdicks in the game. So frustrating.
 
F

Familienoberhauptvogel

Banned
Karsticles said:
I haven't seen the video, but playing a lot of small minions can negate the impact of Quest Warrior.
Click to expand...
It slows Warrior down potentially, but so do board wipes slow down Quest Rogue.
Lyng said:
Hardly. It takes far longer for that to come in effect, and simply having a lot of minions almost nullifies the effect
Click to expand...
My point is that the same talking points of being uninteractive and playing solitaire applies to Warrior and the inevitability it bears once completed.
BananasWithGuns said:
Kibler's points are a greater issue with quests in general, or more specifically the Rogue, Warrior, Mage and to a lesser extent Warlock quests. Once you satisfy the condition it's as close to an auto win as it gets. Quests shouldn't have been a thing that just outright puts your opponent on a timer.

Quests should have been designed more like Priest, Shaman, Hunter and Druid. Really powerful effects that have the potential to swing a game but at the same time can be planned for and potentially combated.
Click to expand...
Pretty much. Later on in the video he goes into specifics that obviously don't apply to both quests but the general problem applies to various quests.
 
S

Sande

Member
Lyng said:
Midrange hunter is very much midrange. Especially compared to pirate and token druid.
Click to expand...
So it has slowed down and become much more about trading than before? I've been out of the loop for like six months.

Midrange paladin looks like genuine midrange, I'll give it that.
 
L

Lyng

Member
Familienoberhauptvogel said:
It slows Warrior down potentially, but so do board wipes slow down Quest Rogue.

My point is that the same talking points of being uninteractive and playing solitaire applies to Warrior and the inevitability it bears once completed.
Pretty much. Later on in the video he goes into specifics that obviously don't apply to both quests but the general problem applies to various quests.
Click to expand...

Boardwipes dont do jack shit to rogue unless its a retarded rogue.
 
F

Familienoberhauptvogel

Banned
Lyng said:
Boardwipes dont do jack shit to rogue unless its a retarded rogue.
Click to expand...
This is a comparison to the effectiveness of playing weenies against a fulfilled Quest Warrior. Neither is an answer it's just a delay tactic, board wipes slow down quest rogue both by making them not overcommit to the board in anticipation and by having to rebuild it.

I'd appreciate it if we kept discussions civil and avoided using loaded terms like retarded.
 
F

fertygo

Member
BananasWithGuns said:
Kibler's points are a greater issue with quests in general, or more specifically the Rogue, Warrior, Mage and to a lesser extent Warlock quests. Once you satisfy the condition it's as close to an auto win as it gets. Quests shouldn't have been a thing that just outright puts your opponent on a timer.

Quests should have been designed more like Priest, Shaman, Hunter and Druid. Really powerful effects that have the potential to swing a game but at the same time can be planned for and potentially combated.
Click to expand...
So theyre unusable is what you want
 
Z

Zemm

Member
I started at rank 18 this evening and reached rank 5 a few hours later. It's nice to be done for the month in one evening. This murloc Paladin deck is absolutely ridiculous. There's not a single class or deck it's weak to.
 
L

Lyng

Member
Familienoberhauptvogel said:
This is a comparison to the effectiveness of playing weenies against a fulfilled Quest Warrior. Neither is an answer it's just a delay tactic, board wipes slow down quest rogue both by making them not overcommit to the board in anticipation and by having to rebuild it.

I'd appreciate it if we kept discussions civil and avoided using loaded terms like retarded.
Click to expand...

Allright then very bad playing rogue. Its far easier for a rogue to keep a steady flow of minions even without a board. If you have a ton of small minions out its much harder for the warrior to do anything about it. Every heropower is random and in that time you can go face.
I suspect the main reason the quest rogue overall win percentage is as low as it is, is indeed due to how many horrible players play it. Pretty much from 25 to 10 most rogue quests I have met have been auto win, even if they could finish at turn 4. Not because the deck is weak but because they went all out of steam and clearly had zero gameplan.

If the deck is piloted by a semi competent player its almost impossible to run out of steam. In fact its easier to stop a pirate warrior with boardclear then a quest rogue.
 
B

Blizzard

Banned
I'm still hoping to build the Paladin deck but I'm down something like 4500 dust and I'm not burning other legendaries. I'll wait a month or two.


On another note, I know it's probably a bad card, but Eater of Secrets remains one of the most satisfying cards in my pirate warrior deck. 2 HP mage, ice block and frost armor played. They throw down wyrm, primordial glyph > primordial glyph > PRIMORDIAL GLYPH triple chain. I was almost out of hand cards, no board, 1 weapon charge left.

I wait a few turns without doing anything but armor basically, refusing to trigger the secrets, then top deck Eater of Secrets for lethal.

It's especially satisfying when I sometimes face over 30℅ mage opponents.
 
F

fertygo

Member
I mean its very clear why the only playable Quest right now is the one thať can made yoù caught from behind and set win condition fròm there.

Because you really play from far behind at moment you keeping quest in your hand.. you one card down from the get go.. if the quest reward not soĺving card disanvantage like warrior and rogue quest does you doomed.
 
F

Familienoberhauptvogel

Banned
Lyng said:
Allright then very bad playing rogue. Its far easier for a rogue to keep a steady flow of minions even without a board. If you have a ton of small minions out its much harder for the warrior to do anything about it. Every heropower is random and in that time you can go face.
I suspect the main reason the quest rogue overall win percentage is as low as it is, is indeed due to how many horrible players play it. Pretty much from 25 to 10 most rogue quests I have met have been auto win, even if they could finish at turn 4. Not because the deck is weak but because they went all out of steam and clearly had zero gameplan.

If the deck is piloted by a semi competent player its almost impossible to run out of steam. In fact its easier to stop a pirate warrior with boardclear then a quest rogue.
Click to expand...
Really, a deck with Primordial Drakes, Ravaging Ghouls, Brawls, Whirlwinds, Slams, a 4/2 equipped and FWAs has issues clearing small minions? The only reason they'd ever not have clears or removal is if all they are drawing is Taunts, which also stop you from hitting face.

Where do you get the idea from that Quest Rogue is this deck with limitless resources? It's not like you can just spin the wheels for 4 turns completing the quest then play a 5 mana do nothing spell on an empty board and just win the next turn. If you play like that even Taunt Warrior can smorc you down.
 
L

Lyng

Member
Familienoberhauptvogel said:
Really, a deck with Primordial Drakes, Ravaging Ghouls, Brawls, Whirlwinds, Slams, a 4/2 equipped and FWAs has issues clearing small minions? The only reason they'd ever not have clears or removal is if all they are drawing is Taunts, which also stop you from hitting face.

Where do you get the idea from that Quest Rogue is this deck with limitless resources? It's not like you can just spin the wheels for 4 turns completing the quest then play a 5 mana do nothing spell on an empty board and just win the next turn. If you play like that even Taunt Warrior can smorc you down.
Click to expand...

Watch some of the best rogue players pilot the deck. Many of the minions have charge and thus can do be used more than once, and with the insane amount of bouncing cards you can easily keep minions in your hand and put pressure at the same time.

Honestly I think you need to play some taunt warrior yourself, when I face taunt warrior as pirate I am quiet happy as I have a positive winrate against them. Yes they have removals, but they are expensive and most of them prevent you from playing taunts at the same time, so its constantly a question on whether to push for the quest or keep removing.
Many of the rogues minions actually do both. The murloc that summons taunt can completely shut down aggro, the elemental that freezes can protect your minions and your face. And at the same time bouncing these will further your quest, on top of that you only need to play the same minion 4 times which is very easy to achieve, which Kibbler also comments on in the video.

Yes quest warrior is very strong, but simply getting the quest done doesnt automatically win you the game. Especially if your playing against aggro decks.
 
Z

ZealousD

Makes world leading predictions like "The sun will rise tomorrow"
Lyng said:
Midrange hunter is very much midrange. Especially compared to pirate and token druid.

Man if there is one thing that can almost make me tilt its getting one win away from rank 10 and then going on a loosing streak against the most insane topdicks in the game. So frustrating.
Click to expand...

"Midrange" hunter currently runs six 1-drops and tops out 2x Highmane.

Once upon a time, we called that Hybrid Hunter.
 
F

Familienoberhauptvogel

Banned
Lyng said:
Watch some of the best rogue players pilot the deck. Many of the minions have charge and thus can do be used more than once, and with the insane amount of bouncing cards you can easily keep minions in your hand and put pressure at the same time.

Honestly I think you need to play some taunt warrior yourself, when I face taunt warrior as pirate I am quiet happy as I have a positive winrate against them. Yes they have removals, but they are expensive and most of them prevent you from playing taunts at the same time, so its constantly a question on whether to push for the quest or keep removing.
Many of the rogues minions actually do both. The murloc that summons taunt can completely shut down aggro, the elemental that freezes can protect your minions and your face. And at the same time bouncing these will further your quest, on top of that you only need to play the same minion 4 times which is very easy to achieve, which Kibbler also comments on in the video.

Yes quest warrior is very strong, but simply getting the quest done doesnt automatically win you the game. Especially if your playing against aggro decks.
Click to expand...
There's 8 bouncers in the deck including vanish and 4 card draw cards in the deck, 2 of which mimic pods that can change these numbers. I've lived in magical christmas land where I played patches 3 times in a single turn. Those games are not the norm, I'm super happy already if I can keep Patches in the deck until after I played Crystal Core.

I was comparing post sulfuras warrior. The whole point was that rogue can be slowed down just like Taunt Warrior with their quest fulfilled. I don't care about the balance of progressing the quest or to keep the board clear, I never claimed having intricate knowledge of that.

Also there should be a high chance to win the game after fulfilling the quest and playing the reward, you built a deck that can't win w/o doing so and playing the quest plus reward cost 6 mana and a card.
Glacial Shard and Bilefin Tidehunter can slow down aggro but you can rarely commit them to the board if those are your bounce targets. Bilefin Tidehunter is nigh dead before Crystal Core as 2 mana for X/1s is a terrible rate that prohibits you from completing the quest quicker, it's incredible post.
 
M

Mobius and pet octopus

Member
ZealousD said:
You just called it Tempo Rogue. If people considered it to be a midrange deck they'd called it Midrange Rogue. But they don't.
Click to expand...

We were talking about hunter. I call midrange hunter a midrange deck, undoubtedly. Midrange is not tempo, hence I don't call tempo rogue midrange. I call midrange rogue midrange. Midrange rogue had been a thing in the past, particularly in classic era before several neutrals got nerfed in beta.
 
D

Dahbomb

Member
Mobius and pet octopus said:
It's not about the deck's speed. It's about what the cards do and how the deck is designed to win.
Click to expand...
The deck plays cards on curve and kills you fast. That's all the brain cells that you need to figure how the deck functions and wins. Sometimes you get to play two 1 mana cards on 2 mana, sometimes you float mana to squeeze in the hero to kill them fast.

It's Hunter... the class will always either play cards on curve or try to kill you fast... or both. Same shit we been seeing for years now, just with different art on the cards.
 
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