Support NeoGAF

[Coreda]

People mocked bizarre things like the awkward charging of the Apple Pen and the new Mighty Mouse, claiming that a short period of charging would suffice for the rest of the day. Fine. But the design itself was so incredibly against Apple's principles it was kind of shocking. Startling, even.

For the latter I think the reasoning for the underside port placement was both keeping the front port free and as they didn't want people leaving the cable attached to the mouse for purely brand aesthetic reasons, hence the awkward placement. Both look incredibly silly when charging either way.

 

[mrklaw]

I was thinking how silly the touch bar is for custom controls because you have to look at it - you should be looking at the screen. That was amplified by the photos demo where the touch bar wasn't actually letting you keep controls off the main screen (so more space for content) - it was literally bringing up the same menus you would normally use and the touch bar was just acting like a macro.

However, I've softened on it - a little. For pros that use keyboard shortcuts a lot, I assume software will be available that will let you create your own keyboard shortcuts with graphics for different apps. Or those apps will do it for you. If done well, with reasonable positioning above the number keys, you should probably still be able to use them blindly once you've memorised them. So effectively they become like normal function keys, but perhaps more customisable and allowing you to have a custom graphic overlay for each app you use.

So it could be useful overall, but Apple were hugely disproportionate on the amount of time and energy they spent trying to persuade everyone how game-changing it was, vs how useful it probably actually is.


This is my biggest problem with Apple at the moment. Everything is hyperbolised to such a point that it is actually numbing me. Touch bar and portrait mode on iphone 7+ are neat little features to spend a moment informing people about, but they aren't things to spend 15 minutes on a stage with multiple guest demonstrators.

If they genuinely come out with something that is a big improvement or a proper innovation, I might not spot it because I'm just hearing the same bullshit from them time and time again. 'beautiful', 'so proud', 'best ever', 'unrivalled experience'. Literally just shipping the exact same MBP as before but with a skylake chip would still be 'the best macbook pro...ever'. So surely thats a given?

They need to tone down on the hyperbole or people will really start tuning out.

 

[EviLore]

Gimmickbar looks preeeeetty sweet with Photoshop...

 

[Jo Shishido's Cheeks]

Welp, I did it. I bought a new Laptop. Kind of.

Thanks for nothing, Apple!

Thanks for giving us a laugh, thoughtful of you to try and cheer us up after these announcements.

 

[numble]

I really hate to bring the whole "Steve Jobs died for your sins" thing, but as a relative outsider (having only owned an iPad, which I adore) it really think that Apple is losing the thread here really fast.

People mocked bizarre things like the awkward charging of the Apple Pen and the new Mighty Mouse, claiming that a short period of charging would suffice for the rest of the day. Fine. But the design itself was so incredibly against Apple's principles it was kind of shocking. Startling, even.

Then you have the removal of the 3.5mm port followed by new Airpods not working on the Pro, iPhones and MacBook Pros not being able to connect through cable and dongles everywhere. While I favour the one port future, I also believe that things like the MagSafe were hugely beneficial. It was the thing that made me envy my friend's MacBooks. Not anymore.

And the Touch Bar is a mess. I echo the feeling of whoever compared it to the ancient Windows-powered Widgets. I think it's nifty (if a tad gimmicky), but Apple lacked the "courage" to spread it all over the Pro line, which goes on to show how confident they feel about it. And if you think about it, you'll realise that it's only available on Apple's two most powerful laptops, meaning that it may remain a tiny, niche option that will never reach its full potential due to its smaller user base and reach.

For a company that rebuilt its reputation by heavily pushing for convenience and dependability, they been stumbling quite a bit. So much for the old "it just works".

The new Airpods work on the Pro.

I don't buy the argument about not putting it across the entire line. It is a very common strategy for them to implement features in phases. Retina screens, TouchID, Force/3D Touch, dual cameras, OIS, Siri, even MagSafe and thunderbolt were limited to 1 device first. The MacBook Air debuted in 2008 at $1800 and became the $899 entry-level Mac 6 years later.

 

[mrkgoo]

I was thinking how silly the touch bar is for custom controls because you have to look at it - you should be looking at the screen. That was amplified by the photos demo where the touch bar wasn't actually letting you keep controls off the main screen (so more space for content) - it was literally bringing up the same menus you would normally use and the touch bar was just acting like a macro.

However, I've softened on it - a little. For pros that use keyboard shortcuts a lot, I assume software will be available that will let you create your own keyboard shortcuts with graphics for different apps. Or those apps will do it for you. If done well, with reasonable positioning above the number keys, you should probably still be able to use them blindly once you've memorised them. So effectively they become like normal function keys, but perhaps more customisable and allowing you to have a custom graphic overlay for each app you use.

So it could be useful overall, but Apple were hugely disproportionate on the amount of time and energy they spent trying to persuade everyone how game-changing it was, vs how useful it probably actually is.



This is my biggest problem with Apple at the moment. Everything is hyperbolised to such a point that it is actually numbing me. Touch bar and portrait mode on iphone 7+ are neat little features to spend a moment informing people about, but they aren't things to spend 15 minutes on a stage with multiple guest demonstrators.

If they genuinely come out with something that is a big improvement or a proper innovation, I might not spot it because I'm just hearing the same bullshit from them time and time again. 'beautiful', 'so proud', 'best ever', 'unrivalled experience'. Literally just shipping the exact same MBP as before but with a skylake chip would still be 'the best macbook pro...ever'. So surely thats a given?

They need to tone down on the hyperbole or people will really start tuning out.

Apple have actually got guidelines on who to use the touch bar, which includes things like: don't use it as a second display - you're not supposed to be looking at it away from the main screen; don't put alerts or content on it; don't put common controls such as copy paste, etc.

It's interesting, Apple very clearly have a vision and idea for what it is and what it is not.


I'd also add I don't think you're supposed to use it blindly - I think most users, even if they know where certain hardware keys like volume or brightness are, they will still look down to use them.

 

[Funky Papa]

The new Airpods work on the Pro.

Earpods. I made the mistake at first, then corrected it, then fucked it again.

Gah.

 

[Jo Shishido's Cheeks]

Just noticed that even the (super thin) MacBook had a £200 price hike.
Watch how not one single interviewer questions them about this...

 

[Shogmaster]

Jony Ives is to Clarence Thomas as Steve Jobs is to Atonin Scalia. Without his old Jefe clearly telling him what to do, the poor guy seems totally lost.

 

[SuperEpicMan]

I really hate to bring the whole "Steve Jobs died for your sins" thing, but as a relative outsider (having only owned an iPad, which I adore) it really think that Apple is losing the thread here really fast.

People mocked bizarre things like the awkward charging of the Apple Pen and the new Mighty Mouse, claiming that a short period of charging would suffice for the rest of the day. Fine. But the design itself was so incredibly against Apple's principles it was kind of shocking. Startling, even.

Then you have the removal of the 3.5mm port followed by new Airpods not working on the Pro, iPhones and MacBook Pros not being able to connect through cable and dongles everywhere. While I favour the one port future, I also believe that things like the MagSafe were hugely beneficial. It was the thing that made me envy my friend's MacBooks. Not anymore.

And the Touch Bar is a mess. I echo the feeling of whoever compared it to the ancient Windows-powered Widgets. I think it's nifty (if a tad gimmicky), but Apple lacked the "courage" to spread it all over the Pro line, which goes on to show how confident they feel about it. And if you think about it, you'll realise that it's only available on Apple's two most powerful laptops, meaning that it may remain a tiny, niche option that will never reach its full potential due to its smaller user base and reach.

For a company that rebuilt its reputation by heavily pushing for convenience and dependability, they been stumbling quite a bit. So much for the old "it just works".

The Apple Pencil is kinda a tricky one to solve, on the one hand it would make more sense to plug a lighting cable into it, so that it isn't sticking out the side of an iPad, but on the other hand I get that they wanted the user to be able to charge it at any time while using their iPad. That said, I think there are ways they could have gotten around this.

• Firstly by having a length of cable integrated into the pencil so that you can pull the lighting connector out of the pen a little bit. This would make it less likely to break when charging.
• Also integrating the little lightning adapter into the pen itself somehow. Meaning wherever you are, you can charge the pen using a lighting cable without the worry of losing the adaptor.

The Mouse whilst inelegant, I can live with since it doesn't take much time to charge and lasts months. The only other option I can think of would be to have the lightning connector on the front of the mouse, but then it would look a bit shit.

Whilst I am sad to see the MagSafe go, it honestly makes a lot of sense when you think about it. They added the USB C ports to the laptop which can also carry power so having a separate dedicated power port makes little sense.

I think many of the Apples problems stem from the adoption of the lightning cable. The iPhone 5 was from what I understand the first Apple product with a lightning connector and it was sold in 2012. I think they would have been better suited to have waited and switched straight to USB C. If you replace all the lightning ports on todays products with USB C, then many of the issues would have been solved (though not all of them).

Regarding the Touch Bar, it looks good, but it isn't what customers have been asking for. It kinda shows they are becoming a little out of touch with many of their target users.

 

[The Real Abed]

Just noticed that even the (super thin) MacBook had a £200 price hike.
Watch how not one single interviewer questions them about this...

It did? It's still $1299 in the US. Was it less before? I thought it was always that. Or is it just the UK?

 

[Joel Was Right]

Did Apple remove the ports to shave off 3mm?

 

[Dynasty]

Did Apple remove the ports to shave off 3mm?

They removed ports so they could screw us over even more with dongles.

 

[jimbobsmells]

It did? It's still $1299 in the US. Was it less before? I thought it was always that. Or is it just the UK?

Related to post brexit vote currency 're-alignment'. Most companies are starting to do it with products sold in the U.K., including MS. Doesn't explain all the increase though.

 

[LyleLanley]

They removed ports so they could screw us over even more with dongles.

To be fair USB-C is an industry standard it just isn't quite ubiquitous yet.

 

[Dougald]

Just noticed that even the (super thin) MacBook had a £200 price hike.
Watch how not one single interviewer questions them about this...

It's had about a 20% price hike in the UK, which is about how much the pound has fallen against the dollar in the last 6 months

 

[chung_sao_ming]

Where is the Escape key?

If you want to use a keyboard shortcut e.g. Option-Command-F5 do you have to press an additional key to do it?

 

[Jonnax]

Just noticed that even the (super thin) MacBook had a £200 price hike.
Watch how not one single interviewer questions them about this...

Value of the £ has gone down around 15%.
Not really Apple's fault that Brexit damaged the value of the £. Expect it to get worse in the future.


All they really need to say is:
At the beginning of the year when we sold something for £1000 we got $1474

Today we get $1213

Info from:
http://www.xe.com/currencytables/?from=GBP&date=2016-01-01

 

[The Real Abed]

Did Apple remove the ports to shave off 3mm?

They removed ports so they could screw us over even more with dongles.

You're both wrong. The correct answer is Courage!

Spoiler

You're both right actually.

Where is the Escape key?

If you want to use a keyboard shortcut e.g. Option-Command-F5 do you have to press an additional key to do it?

Fn will swap to the F-keys. So I guess the combination would then be Fn-Command-Option-F5 instead.

Maybe there'll be an option to lock and toggle between the layouts instead of it being a "only while held" thing. Because needing to hold Fn for everything requiring an F-key is really inconvenient. Then again it's how you have to do it now if you have your OS set to the default setting. (Which is the brightness, volume, iTunes, etc controls are default. Fn switches to F-keys.)

 

[KonradLaw]

Did Apple remove the ports to shave off 3mm?

They needed to shave off that 3mm to have excuse when using dat terrible shallow keyboard

 

[grmlin]

You're both wrong. The correct answer is Courage!

Spoiler

You're both right actually.

Fn will swap to the F-keys. So I guess the combination would then be Fn-Command-Option-F5 instead.

Maybe there'll be an option to lock and toggle between the layouts instead of it being a "only while held" thing. Because needing to hold Fn for everything requiring an F-key is really inconvenient. Then again it's how you have to do it now if you have your OS set to the default setting. (Which is the brightness, volume, iTunes, etc controls are default. Fn switches to F-keys.)

if their won't be a MBP without the touchbar anymore in the future, I really hope you can make it fixed so it works like my current function keys.

I never look on my keyboard, I look on my screen. If I want a touchscreen I'd buy a Windows Laptop.

 

[The Real Abed]

if their won't be a MBP without the touchbar anymore in the future, I really hope you can make it fixed so it works like my current function keys.

I never look on my keyboard, I look on my screen. If I want a touchscreen I'd buy a Windows Laptop.

I'm sure if there isn't an option, there'll be a utility.

 

[RocknRola]

I didn't watch the conference so I may be missing some important context, but checking Apple's site the new touchbar feels............................pointless? Or is it just me? Not getting the point of it existing, really.

 

[newtypepilot]

I didn't watch the conference so I may be missing some important context, but checking Apple's site the new touchbar feels............................pointless? Or is it just me? Not getting the point of it existing, really.

There are some uses, but it's mostly a gimmick to get people to buy the more expensive models

 

[leng jai]

I've been legit laughing/crying randomly all day because of today's Macbook Pro reveal.

 

[RocknRola]

There are some uses, but it's mostly a gimmick to get people to buy the more expensive models

Definitely comes off that way. Dunno, maybe actually using it makes it feel more logical or something.

 

[Skinpop]

that strip screen has to be the most redundant useless thing I've ever seen from apple.

 

[Sony]

For all the people not satisfied with Apple and their recent product strategy, there is a powerful way to speak up. Get an XPS/Surface/Spectre x360 etc.

Apple has been excused for their shortcomings long enough.

 

[Xun]

I really hate to bring the whole "Steve Jobs died for your sins" thing, but as a relative outsider (having only owned an iPad, which I adore) it really think that Apple is losing the thread here really fast.

People mocked bizarre things like the awkward charging of the Apple Pen and the new Mighty Mouse, claiming that a short period of charging would suffice for the rest of the day. Fine. But the design itself was so incredibly against Apple's principles it was kind of shocking. Startling, even.

Then you have the removal of the 3.5mm port followed by new Earpods not working on the Pro, iPhones and MacBook Pros not being able to connect through cable and dongles everywhere. While I favour the one port future, I also believe that things like the MagSafe were hugely beneficial. It was the thing that made me envy my friend's MacBooks. Not anymore.

And the Touch Bar is a mess. I echo the feeling of whoever compared it to the ancient Windows-powered Widgets. I think it's nifty (if a tad gimmicky), but Apple lacked the "courage" to spread it all over the Pro line, which goes on to show how confident they feel about it. And if you think about it, you'll realise that it's only available on Apple's two most powerful laptops, meaning that it may remain a tiny, niche option that will never reach its full potential due to its smaller user base and reach.

For a company that rebuilt its reputation by heavily pushing for convenience and dependability, they been stumbling quite a bit. So much for the old "it just works".

Well said.

It really does feel like Apple has become a parody of itself.

For all the people not satisfied with Apple and their recent product strategy, there is a powerful way to speak up. Get an XPS/Surface/Spectre x360 etc.

Apple has been excused for their shortcomings long enough.

Indeed.

Even a guy I know who got sucked into the "cult" admitted things aren't looking too good at the moment.

It seems like people are finally starting to wake up to their bullshit, albeit slowly.

 

[Waveset]

Just want an upgrade-able tower as mine's 9 years old now, a second hand 2012 Mac Pro is still the best option for me :/

 

[takriel]

come on, this touch bar is so backwards. there is nothing practical here, but rather hinders efficient working. the fuck apple?

 

[Enco]

Gotta agree with the criticism.

Been with the iPhone since the 4 and never switched. But damn Apple da fuk is going on.

The alternatives aren't any better though so hopefully they just get their act together. I'd still rather buy this than any other laptop though (save for maybe some of the ones made directly by MS).

 

[RocknRola]

Gotta agree with the criticism.

Been with the iPhone since the 4 and never switched. But damn Apple da fuk is going on.

The alternatives aren't any better though so hopefully they just get their act together. I'd still rather buy this than any other laptop though (save for maybe some of the ones made directly by MS).

Surface book looks really good, though just as expensive.

 

[EmiPrime]

To think you used to be able to buy an Apple laptop for £640 with a student discount. Now you're not going to get much change from £900 for a laptop Apple have essentially abandoned and you no longer get the 3 year Apple Care for free so add another £115 to the price.

I'm really coming around to the idea that Cook can't wait to kill off the Mac.

 

[jelly]

Apple aren't designing for a good reason and it shows.

Even if you don't prefer Windows, Microsoft and others are thinking does this make sense, is this useful, how do we make this better to use, what can we bring to the table that is different but needed. Apple is the polar opposite. Just watching them demonstrate the strip was hello McFly, anybody there! does nobody think this is obtuse and pointless to use.

 

[giga]

For all the people not satisfied with Apple and their recent product strategy, there is a powerful way to speak up. Get an XPS/Surface/Spectre x360 etc.

Apple has been excused for their shortcomings long enough.

I went through these and none are really in the same segment as the Macbook Pro apart from the XPS 15. The others use lower power processors and integrated graphics. Yes, I know the Surface Book has a performance dock. You're still hampered by its CPU. And to even get 16GB of RAM you have to pay $2800.

If you're a MBA user and are looking for ultrabooks, then sure.

 

[Kill Your Masters]

Where is the Escape key?

If you want to use a keyboard shortcut e.g. Option-Command-F5 do you have to press an additional key to do it?

 

[MoogleWizard]

I bought a new Macbook Pro last year and spilled coffee over it a few months ago. It's dead. I decided to wait for updates and use my ancient Macbook Pro from 2009 in the meantime. That was a nice machine, you could upgrade the RAM and HDD and Apple even told you how to in the manual! I put in 4x the RAM and 4x the storage years later and it felt like I was using a new system. Unthinkable for the Apple of today. But I need something new and I'm very unimpressed by the crap Apple showed yesterday. Apple computer is dead, they are simply iOS Apple now.

I'm thinking of switching to Windows but have no idea about what's good in Windows land. What are some good manufacturers of good Windows laptops? The Razer Blade Stealth looks neat, is Razer good? Microsoft's Surface stuff looks very nice, too.

I don't know if switching is a good idea though, I've been using the same user library on OSX for 10 years, I just transferred it to any new system I bought. It will be a pain to clean all that up for a different OS...

 

[EmiPrime]

But that would need a dongle to connect it to the MBP.

Or is that part of the joke.

 

[nico1982]

Where is the Escape key?

Escape is on the left side, just not in those screenshot. Another minor issue is that the on screen f-keys are not aligned as they used to be, esc being the worst offender.

 

[nico1982]

Dead XD

But that would need a dongle to connect it to the MBP.

Even more dead XD

 

[……forgetit]

Pretty impressive, considering he is still a student, America is indeed a land of possibilities!

He graduated

 

[Xun]

Escape is on the left side, just not in those screenshot. Another minor issue is that the on screen f-keys are not aligned as they used to be, esc being the worst offender.

It maybe something minor, but I see it as an issue that sums up what's wrong with them as a company nowadays.

They're stumbling massively.

 

[Kill Your Masters]

But that would need a dongle to connect it to the MBP.

Or is that part of the joke.

No idea, maybe. Its fitting.

How sure are we Apple wants to keep everything minimalistic with all these port cut downs? Maybe Ive has a anime tentacle fetish, because soon a working desk with Apple hardware only could look like an octopus.

 

[ashbash159]

As a web developer I'm so pissed off I have to use Macs for it.

Well I don't have to, but it's either a Mac or a Linux machine which doesn't have Photoshop and Illustrator.

I just wish the web world wasn't so dependent on bloody Macs.

 

[-Pyromaniac-]

Gimmickbar looks preeeeetty sweet with Photoshop...

get it man, and post impressions. I found a lot of the examples to be useless to me but a few of them seemed like they would help a lot. But it's all gen 1 stuff. All about developer implimentation. There's potential.

 

[thenexus6]

Did Apple remove the ports to shave off 3mm?

To make it thinner, then undo all that making you buy a bunch of adaptors to carry around with you.

 

[Fliesen]

To be fair USB-C is an industry standard it just isn't quite ubiquitous yet.

this.

it's bad for early adopters, but absolutely needed to push adoption of the new standard.
Those mainboards with that one little USB-C on the back, those ultrabooks that have an USB-C alongside 3 regular sized USB ports really don't create the necessity for third parties to create devices that connect via USB-C.

Again, this will help push the adoption of USB-C, which should benefit the industry / the standard as whole. Whoever isn't ready / willing to accept that compromise in connectivity, better hold off from purchasing a macbook this year.

I hope Apple gets their shit together and figures out a streamlined approach to connectivity. Why does the mighty mouse (Mac accessory) charge with lightning, while the Macbook charges via USB-C, for example?
Why don't the new macbooks come with at least ONE lightning connector, when it's been kinda called the "wired fallback to the superior wireless option" during the iPhone 7 presentation.
It's disjointed and weird.

It feels like the Mac engineering team and the iPhone engineering team are having some weird feud that makes them unable to cooperate with one another, and it seems that they currently lack the leadership with a consistent vision. :/

The macbook itself is - while a bit overpriced - an impressive device. It just doesn't even fit into Apple's own hardware ecosystem, in a way.

 

[nico1982]

It maybe something minor, but I see it as an issue that sums up what's wrong with them as a company nowadays.

I said minor because I think that it will not take too much time to adapt on the new location, even if it lacks tactile feedback. At the same time, I also think that is another hint to the fact that the touch bar is an hastily implementd solution looking for a problem.

 

[Omikaru]

Longtime Apple fan. I have bought some great kit from Apple over the years, all of which gets daily use from me:

- 2012 Mac Mini (which I've upgraded with an SSD and 16gb RAM over the years)
- iPhone 6S 64gb (best phone I've ever used)
- iPad Air 2 64gb (best tablet I've ever used)
- MacBook Pro 2015 (my all-time favourite laptop)
- Apple TV 64gb (me and my girlfriend like its simplicity and UI)
- Apple Watch Series 1 (has definitely helped me lose weight, and I really like abstracting some of my phone's functionality - in particular notifications - to my wrist)

I have found utility for all these devices, and some of them are quite recent, so I'm not gonna be writing Apple off completely, but I'm not seeing the elegance any more. They keep making these bizarre design decisions that make me scratch my head:

- Apple Pencil charging method (it's dumb)
- Magic Mouse charging port at the bottom (how did they justify releasing that?)
- Butterfly keyboard on the MacBook (it is shit)
- Removing the 3.5mm headphone port
- Gimmicky touchbar on the MacBook Pro (the only thing of value on that entire bar is TouchID)
- The fetishisation of thinness above everything else
- Butterfly keyboard on the MacBook Pro (you can justify it on the smaller Mac, but on the Pro - professional device - they are insane)
- Using Lightning on the iOS devices, and USB C on MacBooks, instead of taking the opportunity to unify the ports on their devices.

I could go on...

Luckily, I have all great equipment that I'm really happy to use, and I still think OS X is the best desktop/laptop operating system out there for my needs. But if I had to replace all my kit tomorrow, not a single bit of it would be Apple.

They have made too many compromises for thinness, and to mitigate those compromises you need to carry the bulk of dongles and accessories around with you, which in turn makes the thinness of the device irrelevant. The recent removals aren't like removing firewire or the optical drive because hardly anyone used them, but more like cutting your balls off because your trousers are too tight.