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Heroes of Newerth |OT| Free-To-Play [PC /Mac /Linux]
- Thread starter blitz64
- Start date
S2 wastes way too much stuff on the wrong ideas. No one cares about grimms crossing, we want extensive, long changelogs, we want new items, new heroes. We get none of that. Only alt skins and marijuana icons. Oh yeah new hero coming out too bad I'm not going to bother with that crap inventionHalycon said:
There are so many good Dream Heroes that S2 could literally just rip off and no one would even have a problem with.
Empath is so lol ridiculous if that is in fact the actual Empath, banning that hero every single game so she's not on my team. The ult is like an invitation for the enemy team to pick Madman, Chronos.
HoN art isn't that bad, Moraxus has an amazing model, so do quite a few other heroes ( Sand Wraith, Myrmidon, Glacius, Soul Reaper, Pestilence, Thunderbringer, Bombardier (Alt Skin should be default), Andromeda ). S2 needs to shy away from models like Empath, and make more models like Moraxus, Empath just looks so boring, and not unique.
Although I don't wish ill on S2 in any way, I've gotten lots of hours of enjoyment from HoN, I just wish they would pump out heroes more often. I know we just got Dampeer, Myrmidon, but man needs to be faster then that.
This is extremely true, I don't mind the alt hero skins though, I just wish all of them were similar to the Pimp Slayer, Female Glacius, Femaly Pyromancer ones. School Girl Succubus is so boring, and again the community has offered a wealth of ideas for alt hero skins, S2 just needs to weed through and find quality suggestions.
I've played that Grimm's Crossing map maybe once or twice, and I don't enjoy it, similarly the other 3v3 map I only played during beta. Ironically enough when S2 does add more items (Striders, blood Chalice), the community goes up in arms against the changes they make to the meta game. Maybe more subtle items would be the better path (Spellshards)
I wonder why S2 doesn't turn to the community for heroes ( Dream Program ) or items ( Balance forums ) or ideas for hero skins ( General Forum Topics ) I'm sure it would be faster and increase the idea pool then just doing it internally.
Empath is so lol ridiculous if that is in fact the actual Empath, banning that hero every single game so she's not on my team. The ult is like an invitation for the enemy team to pick Madman, Chronos.
HoN art isn't that bad, Moraxus has an amazing model, so do quite a few other heroes ( Sand Wraith, Myrmidon, Glacius, Soul Reaper, Pestilence, Thunderbringer, Bombardier (Alt Skin should be default), Andromeda ). S2 needs to shy away from models like Empath, and make more models like Moraxus, Empath just looks so boring, and not unique.
Although I don't wish ill on S2 in any way, I've gotten lots of hours of enjoyment from HoN, I just wish they would pump out heroes more often. I know we just got Dampeer, Myrmidon, but man needs to be faster then that.
valenti said:
This is extremely true, I don't mind the alt hero skins though, I just wish all of them were similar to the Pimp Slayer, Female Glacius, Femaly Pyromancer ones. School Girl Succubus is so boring, and again the community has offered a wealth of ideas for alt hero skins, S2 just needs to weed through and find quality suggestions.
I've played that Grimm's Crossing map maybe once or twice, and I don't enjoy it, similarly the other 3v3 map I only played during beta. Ironically enough when S2 does add more items (Striders, blood Chalice), the community goes up in arms against the changes they make to the meta game. Maybe more subtle items would be the better path (Spellshards)
I wonder why S2 doesn't turn to the community for heroes ( Dream Program ) or items ( Balance forums ) or ideas for hero skins ( General Forum Topics ) I'm sure it would be faster and increase the idea pool then just doing it internally.
This is ridiculous. People playing HoN complain about everything. First, if they added more heroes, more items at a faster rate, people would complain about the fact that the game is imbalance and they need to slow down. If they go at the rate now, people demand more heroes more items.
As for implementing features or skins you don't like, this is why the HoN community is bad. Just because YOU might not like the feature, doesn't mean that others don't. Skins are a great way for S2 to add some income aside from the fact that the store and skins give the players a sense of earning something while playing (its the reason why all modern FPS have a level up and unlock system).
tl;dr: People will always complain about what S2 is doing.
As for implementing features or skins you don't like, this is why the HoN community is bad. Just because YOU might not like the feature, doesn't mean that others don't. Skins are a great way for S2 to add some income aside from the fact that the store and skins give the players a sense of earning something while playing (its the reason why all modern FPS have a level up and unlock system).
tl;dr: People will always complain about what S2 is doing.
delirium said:
I think your misunderstanding, Skins and everything are fine, but compare the Succubus, Night Hound, Madman, bubbles skins to the Witch Slayer skin and you see an instant disparity in Quality, in both the visual and the audio. They cost a different amount of coins but they should at least try to pump out more Premium Skins then non Premium
Currently at Premium : 6
Non premium : 13
Pumping out new content is expected, however have priorities. There is no one that would argue that they get more excited for a new hero skin opposed to a new hero or new item, look at how many threads there are about Empath compared to threads about the new Kraken skin to see this in effect.
Again Priorities, What percentage of the community is asking for new 3v3 maps vs Heroes, people are asking for new items and heroes to add some excitement to current meta game, however within reason.
New Icons do not excite people the way new heroes do, thusly development time should be focused on what people want and not on Marijuana Icons that a minority want.
The thing about skins (premiums vs normal) and heroes is the time it takes to make them. It probably takes a much longer time to develop a viable hero than to make a skin. And even making skins, it is much harder and longer to design a skin that changes everything (you need voice actors, animators, riggers, etc) than a normal reskin (vacation dampeer, schoolgirl succubus, etc). I suspect this is the reason why there has been more releases of crappy skins vs good ones, and the slow release of heroes.
Lone_Prodigy
Member
As a casual HoN player (I play about 1-2 games a day, maybe more if I get a terrible losing streak) I think their rate of development is fine. I haven't mastered all 60+ heroes yet and there's enough unique content to keep me interested. The alt skins don't break the game and I can understand why they need microtransactions. Grimm's Crossing and more casual-friendly items are beneficial to new players and can minimize the elitist attitude that plagues the DotA community.
New heroes are good but remember when Engineer came out? He was nerfed, buffed, nerfed, and buffed over and over again. They've gotten better at it recently (Dampeer and Myrmidon hardly got any changes) but as the game gets bigger there's more and more work you have to do.
New heroes are good but remember when Engineer came out? He was nerfed, buffed, nerfed, and buffed over and over again. They've gotten better at it recently (Dampeer and Myrmidon hardly got any changes) but as the game gets bigger there's more and more work you have to do.
Just played a pretty pathetic game.
We were down 15-12, we lose a second team fight (not a genocide), and have not taken a tower yet while they have taken 3. Big deal. I'm Soul reaper just starting to get my carry on and our Dark lady is doing great at 4-1 with excellent farm. Then our Deadwood, who was sitting at 8-4 I believe, takes this as a sign to concede. We hadn't even lost a barracks yet and our hard carry was just getting into ownage mode. When he doesn't get the 4 votes to pass he sells all of his shit and parades a bunch of monkey couriers around like an asshole.
We sorta come back 4v5 with some nice ganks so Deadwood sits up and starts paying attention again. I hate to say it but we were fortunate in that one of their players dc'd (the other team paused to wait but there was no sign of him after quite a while) so that gave us our chance to push in and win.
I'm debating whether a report would even be considered on the Deadwood player since we won in the end, but it was really only due to the disconnect. People who do stuff like that need to grow up and not throw a tantrum when they don't get their way. =/
We were down 15-12, we lose a second team fight (not a genocide), and have not taken a tower yet while they have taken 3. Big deal. I'm Soul reaper just starting to get my carry on and our Dark lady is doing great at 4-1 with excellent farm. Then our Deadwood, who was sitting at 8-4 I believe, takes this as a sign to concede. We hadn't even lost a barracks yet and our hard carry was just getting into ownage mode. When he doesn't get the 4 votes to pass he sells all of his shit and parades a bunch of monkey couriers around like an asshole.
We sorta come back 4v5 with some nice ganks so Deadwood sits up and starts paying attention again. I hate to say it but we were fortunate in that one of their players dc'd (the other team paused to wait but there was no sign of him after quite a while) so that gave us our chance to push in and win.
I'm debating whether a report would even be considered on the Deadwood player since we won in the end, but it was really only due to the disconnect. People who do stuff like that need to grow up and not throw a tantrum when they don't get their way. =/
Uh, just sounds to me like a guy trying to stir shit up because he was locked out of his account for a few hours, and S2 trying to protect their user's accounts after an old, old mistake in closed beta. Didn't read anything assholish from Maide at all. They're on SA Forums, for fucks sake.Sebulon3k said:
Lone_Prodigy
Member
I'd report him too.
I remember joining an MM game and once we got to hero selection one guy says "his connection is too unstable" and asks us to remake. Well that sucks, but we remake anyway.
I join another MM game, the same guy is there and he says the same thing. Again we remake, I put him on ignore and my banlist, but because the match never started I couldn't report him.
I remember joining an MM game and once we got to hero selection one guy says "his connection is too unstable" and asks us to remake. Well that sucks, but we remake anyway.
I join another MM game, the same guy is there and he says the same thing. Again we remake, I put him on ignore and my banlist, but because the match never started I couldn't report him.
Regarding you guys' concerns...
On avatars: I agree that quality avatars are important. I have been pushing for quality, serious (non joke) avatars since the inception of the microstore. It should make you guys happy to know that right now, there are a bunch of alt avatars being developed, and all of them are "serious" and very high quality. Full model changes, new textures, new animations, the works.
On priorities: Like every company, we have different departments. The fact that the art team is pumping out alt avatars does not affect the design/balance side whatsoever. The reason we haven't come out with any major balance changes for a while is because we have a huge list of changes that affects maybe 90% of the heroes in the game. This is a long, drawn-out, complicated process that involves careful consultation with competitors. We only provided them the preliminary list yesterday, and so far, feedback has been extremely positive, so that patch should not be too far off. It won't be today, but it could be coming in early February. Meanwhile, we've already decided on the next two heroes--Empath, who is next and is currently undergoing semi-closed testing with the Super Beta Testers, and another unannounced hero who is still being internally iterated.
On Empath: She's not a community hero. She's an S2 hero, intelligence support. The role was decided because of the dearth of competitively viable support heroes available right now. Support not up your alley? Don't worry, next one will provide plenty of K
boosting. Empath is not my kind of hero either, but some people will like her. That's just the nature of this sort of game.
I guarantee you that everything you guys have brought up in this thread (and everything others have brought up on the forums) has been discussed internally to great length. Don't like 3v3/Grimm's? Could care less about Casual Mode? Empath showing a bit too much titty? Guess what--there are people in S2 who have the exact same opinion as you (hello!). In the end, understanding what our players want is the most important thing, and rest assured that you guys are covered.
If you guys use Twitter, I answer each and every single (non-trollish) question directed at me there: twitter.com/s2nome
And of course, if you message me in-game, I'm always happy to put a fellow Gaffer in the know
On avatars: I agree that quality avatars are important. I have been pushing for quality, serious (non joke) avatars since the inception of the microstore. It should make you guys happy to know that right now, there are a bunch of alt avatars being developed, and all of them are "serious" and very high quality. Full model changes, new textures, new animations, the works.
On priorities: Like every company, we have different departments. The fact that the art team is pumping out alt avatars does not affect the design/balance side whatsoever. The reason we haven't come out with any major balance changes for a while is because we have a huge list of changes that affects maybe 90% of the heroes in the game. This is a long, drawn-out, complicated process that involves careful consultation with competitors. We only provided them the preliminary list yesterday, and so far, feedback has been extremely positive, so that patch should not be too far off. It won't be today, but it could be coming in early February. Meanwhile, we've already decided on the next two heroes--Empath, who is next and is currently undergoing semi-closed testing with the Super Beta Testers, and another unannounced hero who is still being internally iterated.
On Empath: She's not a community hero. She's an S2 hero, intelligence support. The role was decided because of the dearth of competitively viable support heroes available right now. Support not up your alley? Don't worry, next one will provide plenty of K
boosting. Empath is not my kind of hero either, but some people will like her. That's just the nature of this sort of game.I guarantee you that everything you guys have brought up in this thread (and everything others have brought up on the forums) has been discussed internally to great length. Don't like 3v3/Grimm's? Could care less about Casual Mode? Empath showing a bit too much titty? Guess what--there are people in S2 who have the exact same opinion as you (hello!). In the end, understanding what our players want is the most important thing, and rest assured that you guys are covered.
If you guys use Twitter, I answer each and every single (non-trollish) question directed at me there: twitter.com/s2nome
And of course, if you message me in-game, I'm always happy to put a fellow Gaffer in the know
wonderdung
Member
I picked this up the other night (never having played DOTA) but after going through the tutorial and watching some basic strategy guides online I'm pretty much afraid to play it. It's clear that the amount of knowledge needed to play is a lot greater than the tutorial teaches, and there doesn't seem to be a way to practice against AI.
I don't want to join team games without being at least a little less clueless. How are you supposed to start out at this game?
I don't want to join team games without being at least a little less clueless. How are you supposed to start out at this game?
wonderdung
Member
valenti said:
I've played War 3, just never DOTA. I'll check out that site. I've picked up on a lot of things like warding and the basics of laning just from youtube, but it's clear that it's a 5v5 game at heart. I'm not that enthusiastic to plop into the matchmaking knowing that I'll piss off 4 other people by not knowing how to use my hero or even what hero is good to pick for whatever role I fill on the team.
The HoN tutorial seems like it's missing about 3 hours worth of content. I couldn't even figure out how to concede my first game, much less divine the meanings of the various draft types or game options. This game seems like it's worth the time investment so I don't really mind it... it's just an odd setup to have a complex game with no obvious way to integrate totally new players into the population.
FromTheFuture
Member
Unfortunately, that's actually not so much the fault of S2 and HoN, but rather, it has been a mainstay of the genre since its inception. All the current players only have gotten here through experience themselves.wonderdung said:
It's a tall order to learn every hero and how to use them, then how to use each hero alongside up to four other heroes, against five other heroes, and how the items come in to play after all of the heroes have been decided. Then there are all kinds of things that all DotA/HoN players have only gained by trying things out themselves. I couldn't even explain all of the complexity. Not to mention, every player has to wade through an ocean of bullshit from internet assholes. Everyone. Nothing you ever do will change this fate.
I think it's a combination of the relative 'newness' of the genre, alongside its inherent complexity. What I mean is that, for example, a lot of games these days have tutorials which can show you the ropes, but it will never prepare you for playing against other players. The best you can do is just keep at it, don't get discouraged and let your knowledge build naturally.
Does anybody have any suggestions for a noob getting into HoN? I've been an avid LoL player since beta and I thought about checking out HoN. I played Dota back in the day, but haven't really since, so this is all new to me and I have no idea where to start.
I guess what I'm really asking for is are there any good starter champions to try? Any websites to look at the have typical build guides for champions? Are there major differences I should know from LoL?
I guess what I'm really asking for is are there any good starter champions to try? Any websites to look at the have typical build guides for champions? Are there major differences I should know from LoL?
Procarbine
Forever Platinum
Sebulon3k said:
Fucking mantastic panda on your team, wow.
Lone_Prodigy
Member
Sebulon3k said:
MsPudding sounds bored in most of her clips. If she had some original lines like the flamboyant pack I might like it more.
Weirdest game ever: we won in 26 minutes being only up 13-10 in hero kills with 2 towers (none of them the mid one). Then again our BH already had BKB but it was barely mid-game.
Procarbine
Forever Platinum
I just saw Meeru get 42 coins in one match. Immortal/Annihilation. I say goddam.
http://replays.heroesofnewerth.com/match_replay.php?mid=27574183 to be precise.
My Brutalizer didn't proc once the entire game. :qq
My Brutalizer didn't proc once the entire game. :qq
Lone_Prodigy
Member
mrbagdt said:
Yeah, but some people are douches and don't want to give the other team a Quick Victory so they drag it out. Good thing you only need 4/5 to concede now.
And was val's Immortal/Annihilation in the game after I left? Boo-urns.
Wait... why did Glacius have a Brutalizer? Troll item?
Lone_Prodigy said:
Well, unfortunately those two thing work against each other. For a quick victory you need to win in under 25 minutes, but the 4/5 concede doesn't kick in until after 30 minutes. If one person on the other team really wants to drag it out past 25 just to deny the quick victory, they can still do it.
http://xltweet.com/show/?id=5758505B56
A few facts and observations about Empath and today's SBT testing.
[tease]
She is a pure support hero. There is no room for carry.
She has "5" skills as of right now. This is subject to change.
Of the 4 games played so far, she's won 2 of them.
Empath has resulted in some of the biggest "HOLY SHIT" and "LOL" moments yet.
SBT'ers have been unanimously pleased with her core design after seeing her in action.
She is the queen of juking.
Situationally has the highest survivability of any support hero.
Has two skills which cannot be properly created in Warcraft 3 without serious sacrifices.
[/tease]
A few facts and observations about Empath and today's SBT testing.
[tease]
She is a pure support hero. There is no room for carry.
She has "5" skills as of right now. This is subject to change.
Of the 4 games played so far, she's won 2 of them.
Empath has resulted in some of the biggest "HOLY SHIT" and "LOL" moments yet.
SBT'ers have been unanimously pleased with her core design after seeing her in action.
She is the queen of juking.
Situationally has the highest survivability of any support hero.
Has two skills which cannot be properly created in Warcraft 3 without serious sacrifices.
[/tease]
