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Heroes of the Storm |OT2| Imitation is the sincerest form of flattery
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jaundicejuice
Member
Just played a match where a laning Nova that duo queued with a Gazlowe complained about poor team composition. Their epic strategy was a wombo-combo they didn't land once.
Overwatch can't come out soon enough.
Overwatch can't come out soon enough.
i actually like tank build on dahaka much better. The move speed at one, regen ult and ice block just let you do whatever the fuck you want.
and then you can't be body blocked when W is up is nuts. it's like if sonya was whirlwinding all the time and had ice block. sure you dont' get the burst damage, but the damage over time is considerable.
and then you can't be body blocked when W is up is nuts. it's like if sonya was whirlwinding all the time and had ice block. sure you dont' get the burst damage, but the damage over time is considerable.
jaundicejuice
Member
Fel Infusion, Gravity Crush, Sunfire Enchantment and Sun King's Fury feel's way better than than going into the Flamestrike build.
gravity crush and sunfire are the same tier
crush > sunfire
I think lvl one is the most situational, like globes for the globe maps, else fel infusion, unless you've got like a really easy lane where you can farm convection stacks. then I like energy roil and gravity crush, pyro maniac and sun kings fury.
and then as long as you're hitting Es you can keep hitting Es.
crush > sunfire
I think lvl one is the most situational, like globes for the globe maps, else fel infusion, unless you've got like a really easy lane where you can farm convection stacks. then I like energy roil and gravity crush, pyro maniac and sun kings fury.
and then as long as you're hitting Es you can keep hitting Es.
His damage was nerfed?
His auto attacks were substantially reduced, and he didn't gain a buff to his spells like Jaina did on frostbolt to.
When the rework went live his flamestrike damage was nerfed.
When the rework went live he lost the talent that gave him 20% more damage on living bomb.
When the rework went live he lost the ability to double bomb someone, meaning in a duel he needs to stand toe to toe for 3+ seconds just to be able to use all his abiliti s.
His damage is substantially lower than it used to be, and the only way to bring it back is to go a dumb auto attack build that requires a Mage with no escape abilities to stand in AA range for a substantial period of time. This generally does not lead to a good time.
jaundicejuice
Member
I just don't know which of the two I like more, Sunfire or Crush. I've been favouring Sunfire because the CD on your trait is lower, you can't miss with it and you can weave in and out of LB cast and AA range.
scoobs
Member
I guess I just have a foggy memory but I do not recall a single nerf to his flamestrike damage. And he got chainbomb baseline, which more than makes up for the loss of the living bomb damage talent (which was a mandatory pick) IMO. He's now better early game, and is able to pick up extra utility on the spell in the form of his level 13 talents, instead of being forced into chain bomb.
Being able to cast 2 living bombs instantly on the same person was dumb, and was the primary reason he was broken. Now you are actually given a choice what to use your verdant spheres on. Makes him more interesting, more builds are viable.
Now they're buffing his damage across the board with this latest patch, so I feel like there is very little to complain about.
Yes he lost mobility, but the reality is you can't give every assassin in the game all the damage, mobility, and survivability, or they become auto-picks (See Kael'Thas 3 months ago with his 100% pick/ban rate, or Li-Ming right now).
These changes are for the better of the hero, and the game in general.
Let us hope the nerf hammer is coming for Li-Ming
jaundicejuice
Member
I am your avatar reading your post.
Familienoberhauptvogel
Banned
It's funny that Li Ming basically rewrote history when it comes to KT.
From the patch notes in March:
"Damage reduced from 237 (+4% per level) to 213 (+4% per level)
Damage (empowered by Verdant Spheres) reduced from 356 (+4% per level) to 320 (+4% per lecel'
And chain bomb is not baseline. A nerfed version of chain bomb is baseline that is significantly less powerful than the old talent
Double bombing may have been dumb, but it was his best single target damage and what made him workable. It also wasn't anywhere NEAR broken. He had a middle of the pack win rate at best before his rework, and his rework sent him plummeting to the bottom of the pack immediately on release.
Kael now does terrible single target damage compared to the other assassins, and his AE damage relies on the opposing team being dumb and spreading living bomb. This is not a recipe for success.
Also, Kael'thas didn't even have a 100% ban pick rate when he had the old ignite. I think you are significantly over estimating his power with the old double bomb chain bomb build.
Ultimately, whilst his rework is interesting and presents fun talent choices, the end result is a hero who as far as we can tell doesn't work who has no real place in the game unless the enemy team is full of people who cluster up and spread living bombs. His damage was significantly nerfed and getting a neutered chain bomb as baseline in return simply isn't a good exchange.
I might be wrong and this might fix everything, and would love to be proven wrong, but it still doesn't feel great to me.
Also just to say the patch notes are why I didn't think his flame strike damage had been nerfed yesterday. They list it as going from 213 to 320 base damage both wth the rework from the end of March and yesterday's patch. That's a 50% increase both ways, and I can't find a 330 damage figure anywhere - was it different in game to the patch notes?
I heard Zoia say in the qualifier cast last night that he felt Sylvanas was already popular, but soon could be considered one of the best heroes in the game.
I was pretty underwhelmed with what I saw from Sylvanas on PTR (never played her there), but the new burstier Sylvanas is pretty fun to play. I did the E resetting Q thing since the damage is a bit higher now, and Mind Control may be the most fun ultimate for me to play with right now.
I mind controlled and had a Li-Ming killed in 4 straight fights in a game the other day (then we threw and lost). I was doing my part to Make The Nexus Great Again!
I was pretty underwhelmed with what I saw from Sylvanas on PTR (never played her there), but the new burstier Sylvanas is pretty fun to play. I did the E resetting Q thing since the damage is a bit higher now, and Mind Control may be the most fun ultimate for me to play with right now.
I mind controlled and had a Li-Ming killed in 4 straight fights in a game the other day (then we threw and lost). I was doing my part to Make The Nexus Great Again!
Yeah im not into that build
Sylv's lvl 4 talent might push her over, i could see that esp if you ban rehgar or something
But the second tint of her master + Legacy of the Void collector's mount in purple.
sogood.gif
Withering Barrage?
brickwalker0
Member
man i really want to get back into playing Anub but he seems to fill the same role as Artanis mostly just not as good.
does he hard counter any certain heroes or strats?
does he hard counter any certain heroes or strats?
Familienoberhauptvogel
Banned
ChoGall and comps that put anything on a single character like if an Illidan comp that didn't get a 2nd damage dealer.
brickwalker0
Member
oh wow totally forgot about illidan and hes been all over QM (or atleast was before the nerfs, havent played since the new patch).
so do you go Locust ult against him or Web?
so do you go Locust ult against him or Web?
anub is actually kind of the opposite of artanis. they're both less tanky warriors. but artanis is all about getting in, staying in, and right clicking, and he has no CC and he sucks in lane
anubarak is all laying down CC and escaping with burrow charge. he's really not about right clicking, and his lane is a lot better then artanis.
anubarak is all laying down CC and escaping with burrow charge. he's really not about right clicking, and his lane is a lot better then artanis.
Familienoberhauptvogel
Banned
I miss the days, literally was just a couple days IIRC, when Anub was OP. I still catch myself impaling then burrow charging in for the stun train as you could back then.
Also gotta try web + gust if you have a Falstad
Also gotta try web + gust if you have a Falstad
Familienoberhauptvogel
Banned
ban him so no one on your team can pick him.
Milly79 has been playing Gazlowe lately and it hasn't been awful, FWIW. He is more useful, but still not very relevant on a power perspective I guess you could say.
And yes, yes, yes. I miss OP Anub. I feel like the quick trigger on him was a sad day for HOTS. Wish his buffs had happened in this era so there'd be a little bit more iteration patch to patch and maybe a longer leash.
And yes, yes, yes. I miss OP Anub. I feel like the quick trigger on him was a sad day for HOTS. Wish his buffs had happened in this era so there'd be a little bit more iteration patch to patch and maybe a longer leash.
jaundicejuice
Member
I don't think anyone is denying what Kael'Thas used to be or that he was a mono-build hero but what's bizarre is reading scoobs assertions that KT hasn't been nerfed, has only been buffed and that everything is fine. If you look at Hotlogs right now Kael'Thas is sitting in the bottom five, hanging in Gazlowe's old neighbourhood. If a 50% winrate is Blizzard's metric for balance, well this latest talent re-design--his third major iteration--is a failure.
Living Bomb basically relies on people being stupid in order for it to do serious group damage. Even at my low level of play, people split apart from each other. They don't have to get clear of a minion wave, just each other. You can see Blizzard are trying to shift Living Bomb to being more of a single target nuke, by baking the old Fission bomb damage boost into base LB, with some group damage potential, Chain Bomb on Empowered that only affects heroes. You can see they are trying to shift the source of multi-target hero damage to Flamestrike with Convection and Burned Flesh but it isn't quite working. KT lost a lot of the anti-group AoE that he had with even the last iteration of Living Bomb and hasn't quite gained it back with the new Flamestrike.
Great Browder interview- http://www.gosugamers.net/heroesofthestorm/features/4914-dustin-browder-on-creating-heroes-either-creative-and-wonderful-or-frightening-and-terrible
Current philosophy on new heroes: Make them high skill cap, make them crazy as fuck.
Current philosophy on new heroes: Make them high skill cap, make them crazy as fuck.
back from that ban life
-Tracer's butt is a very important issue and I sincerely apologize for saying it doesn't matter *cough*
-Heroes of the Dorm was great, sucked not being here to talk about it
-Gillyweed changed my mind during the event, I now think she's acceptable
-GEEEEEE GEEEEEEEE
-Udall is a star, hope he continues the success and the personality in pro
-Tracer's butt is a very important issue and I sincerely apologize for saying it doesn't matter *cough*
-Heroes of the Dorm was great, sucked not being here to talk about it
-Gillyweed changed my mind during the event, I now think she's acceptable
-GEEEEEE GEEEEEEEE
-Udall is a star, hope he continues the success and the personality in pro
brickwalker0
Member
yeah that makes sense, i think im gonna give it a shot tonight if anyones on. i usually play around 8:00 pm CST.
holy shit, are you serious? thought i saw you chiming into that conversation but thats...surprising.
good to have ya back. we should play OW sometime if you're around.
Familienoberhauptvogel
Banned
I'm not arguing that but KT has been the top dog for close to a year. You either chose KT or settled for Jaina. The nerfs made it so it wasn't a required first pick/ban eventually but he was still undoubtetly great. He went through multiple nerfs and fixes and the scaling changes yet ultimately only a rework that made him trash and a hero released that was just as dumb if not dumber managed to finally make him bottom tier. I'd be more than contend not seeing KTs for at least a couple more weeks.
He was my definition of unfun to play against especially in QM where a double bomb could easily just mean you were dead w/o a healer, even early game. Not to mention he had a decent stun.
That's what I mean with rewrote history, retroactively the release of Li Ming made all the tears in regards to KT just evaporate.
Welcome back, criminal.
Depending on the wife I might could be on around then, we'll see.
I am definitely down to play some Overwatch with whoever, whenever, though. I've hardly played the last few weeks, just kinda waiting it out for the Open Beta. Missing it.
brickwalker0
Member
wow, i said something like that to a friend when the patch notes hit saying somethin like "i guess people weren't used to Kael not being OP". i really do think there is a psychological impact to it but he def needed some tweaking.
wtf you in OW beta too? ive been dieing to play with some people, none of my RL friends got in.
Yep I've been in it since the first set of testing. I mainly support, Junkrat, or Reinhardt. That's my favorite thing about OW. Never been a big FPS player and my aim isn't the best, so having support and/or area aim heroes makes the game at least enjoyable for me.
Did get Bloodhardt legendary skin last time I played.
Did get Bloodhardt legendary skin last time I played.
Thats what's most frustrating about it. The shitty part of KTs dominance for so long wasn't that it was specifically the hero, it was that he was clearly the top choice. Now, instead of fixing the actual problem (ranged assassin that's clearly better then every other choice) they just changed which hero is the problem. I hope to god they don't take nearly as long to fix li Ming, but the rate the changes come now is much faster then it was back then, so there's hope. But it's still annoying in the mean time.
jaundicejuice
Member
No one is forgetting how overpowered KT used to be but even at his most broken it took time in a match, the real power spikes were at 13 and 16. Li-Ming is a problem at level 1, she doesn't need specific talents or even levels to be a problem.
I just wish there was a hero with skills equivalent to Anti-Mage or Nyx in HotS, which sounds strange because Illidan and Anub are in this game they just don't have the mana burn.
jaundicejuice
Member
They'll nerf Nazeebo next, his numbers are insane right now.
i agree. and i think it's a mistake.
again, the frustration is that they took the same stance on KT and it sucked for a long ass time.... then they eventually realized like, OKAY I guess everybody was right the whole time we should do something about this... but now we're right back in that situation and it seems that haven't learned anything from how shitty a year of KT being stupid was.
I'm still of the opinion that if they feel she is fine as the top ranged assassin and not broken, despite being banned relentlessly in pleb queues (100% pick or ban rate) and more or less the same in the pro scene, then they should just buff 2 or 3 others to her level.
I'd be fine with Li-Ming being stupid if there was other stupid to counter it with like Rehgar was for a few weeks there. Well, maybe not fine, but it'd be tolerable.
I'd be fine with Li-Ming being stupid if there was other stupid to counter it with like Rehgar was for a few weeks there. Well, maybe not fine, but it'd be tolerable.
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