Support NeoGAF

[Maledict]

As a ranged carry player I'm fine with him not being used much. There is a unique terror Illidan brings that no other melee assassin does, where he. just. wont. fucking. DIE.

Also, the Li-Ming change to her disintegrate ray makes me laugh. It's a really powerful heroic, remind me why it has such a short cooldown again? It doesn't feel like an understrength, low power but useable often heroic *at all* - hell, it's often far more deadly than hinterland blast because of the way it works with her kit. Why doesn't it have a 60 second cooldown like every other normal heroic? Even at 30 seconds it's stupidly low for no reason at all that I can make out.

 

[Alur]

The fact that it is so low, yet also resets with a kill...makes no sense. Make it 40, make it 60, whatever. It still resets with a kill, so it's still a damn good heroic IMO.

And agreed with you. I don't play Illidan, so if he's rekt I don't particularly care. He's not much fun to play against. I'd like to see him in pro play, though, I think he's pretty fun to watch.

 

[Milly79]

They could Iike buff WoF

 

[Ketch]

Divine storm Is almost a 2 second stun.

That shits gonna be OP.

 

[Alur]

They could Iike buff WoF

That'd be nice.

Divine storm Is almost a 2 second stun.

That shits gonna be OP.

Still got that 100 second cooldown, though, and no more Sprint to combo with. They went HAM on it back in the day. It's so hard to justify not using DS too IMO.

 

[Maledict]

They could Iike buff WoF

I don't think it needs it - whilst it's not a common pick, I have seen it used several times by pro teams when they want the disruption and displacement. I think it should be a low cooldown, spammable type of spell - I just think disintegrate counts a full strength, normal heroic and should be on a 60+ second cooldown. The fact that Hinterland Blast is on a 120 second cooldown by comparison is ludicrously dumb.

 

[Alur]

Didn't one of the Korean or Chinese teams use WoF at worlds and get kills with it?

 

[Ketch]

That'd be nice.



Still got that 100 second cooldown, though, and no more Sprint to combo with. They went HAM on it back in the day. It's so hard to justify not using DS too IMO.

That's true but even at 100sec it's pretty strong. I already think he should be picked to counter string initiation and all in melees. Not that it's better then dshield, just that it will fuckin wreck a lot of people.

 

[Maledict]

Didn't one of the Korean or Chinese teams use WoF at worlds and get kills with it?

Yes - and I'm fairly sure NA teams have been using it as well. It's not by any means the normal pick, but it has a place with her kit. It's definitely an ability that would be picked more if Disintegrate wasn't so ludicrously good.

I checked the numbers BTW, and without overpower or the level 20 upgrade hinterland blast is only slightly more damage than a disintegrate. They *so* need to rethink their approach to that ability - I don't think the nerf to gusts cooldown is going to change it's pick rate at all.

 

[jaundicejuice]

Disintegrate Ray competes with maximum Graduating Range Sgt. Hammer, but she has that range at 10. The range is stupid on that ability. They can make the CD 60 seconds, it doesn't matter with the trait and how it currently functions.

 

[Alur]

I don't think the nerf to gusts cooldown is going to change it's pick rate at all.

Yeah, that was my argument when discussing it a few days back. 60 is pretty negligible still. Either Hinterlands needs buffed, or it'll have to be nerfed more to not be the autopick.

The reason they gave for nerfing Gust, however, is interesting when compared to Disintegrate:

Increasing the cooldown should reduce cases where Mighty Gust is used frivolously, but it should still be a powerful disengage and playmaking Heroic.

What heroic is more frivolously used than Disintegrate? Hell, the damn thing is used to clear waves at times, even. There's pretty much no scenario you wouldn't bust it out because of the short cooldown and the resets.

 

[Ketch]

Yea they are so blind to li mings bullshit it's rediculous.



Also, overall 10 damage nerf to KT flame strike since you can't empower it for more damage.


Also, finally twilight dream gonna be number one since it gives 1.5 mana per sec now!

 

[Familienoberhauptvogel]

Yeah, that was my argument when discussing it a few days back. 60 is pretty negligible still. Either Hinterlands needs buffed, or it'll have to be nerfed more to not be the autopick.

The reason they gave for nerfing Gust, however, is interesting when compared to Disintegrate:

What heroic is more frivolously used than Disintegrate? Hell, the damn thing is used to clear waves at times, even. There's pretty much no scenario you wouldn't bust it out because of the short cooldown and the resets.

Oh man you guys just want to kill fun, my fun. Clearing a wave then mounting up and it already being more than halfway off CD when arriving at the objective was half the fun.
It's obviously OP af but some mage gotta be OP, once Li Ming gets hit a couple more times and KT gets buffed at the same time people are gonna cry KT again for his bullshittery.

On the other hand that way I'd at least get to play her again. Don't like the idea of having to be the one to get the takedown for her trait, that'd make me toxic like nothing else in game.

 

[Maledict]

Yea they are so blind to li mings bullshit it's rediculous.



Also, overall 10 damage nerf to KT flame strike since you can't empower it for more damage.


Also, finally twilight dream gonna be number one since it gives 1.5 mana per sec now!

When I looked at the numbers I thought it was a straight up replacement on the flamestrike - they buffed base damage by 50% and took that option off the empower. It's a good change as flamestrike was so useless without the empower, but it does feel to me like they haven't really got a grip on how they wants Kaels trait to be used.

 

[Ketch]

Hmm yea I guess you could just think off it like all your flame strikes are almost empowered now.

 

[Zackat]

What heroic is more frivolously used than Disintegrate? Hell, the damn thing is used to clear waves at times, even. There's pretty much no scenario you wouldn't bust it out because of the short cooldown and the resets.

Thornwood Vine. Huehue.

 

[Celegus]

213 --> 320 base is a massive boost to flamestrike. At least it's baby steps? Don't really bother me because I don't like playing any of the mages very much.

 

[Ketch]

Yea I'm just saying empowered flame strike used to be 330

 

[RumblingRosco]

Balance changes: http://us.battle.net/heroes/en/forum/topic/20742939675

Lots of expected changes (Kael buffs, Li-Ming disintegrate 30s cooldown, Falstad Gust 60s cooldown), and also some unexpected things like passive bonuses for taking Twilight Dream and Emerald Wind.

Muradin
Haymaker (R)
Damage dealt to secondary targets increased from 25% to 100% damage of Haymaker’s primary target damage.

Lol they buffed the most OP heroic in the game. Blizz so dumb but I'm so happy.

 

[Alur]

Thornwood Vine. Huehue.

I forgot about that one. That's a good call, not quite the same impact, but def used to clear waves and merc on top of it's intended uses.

 

[Zackat]

Man I didn't see those balance changes. The problem with Li Ming is her fucking range. Or am I just blind or something? The arcane orb damage reduce is alright I guess.

 

[Familienoberhauptvogel]

Illusionist (Talent)
Minimum amount of damage taken in order to refresh Teleport’s cooldown increased from 15% to 20% of maximum Health.

As if anyone took Illusionist because of that extra, that might as well not be there. The only times this happens from my experience is when you're being stunlocked and then you're dead anyway.

 

[brian!]

that's exactly half the reason i took it lol
yooo these kael buffs
love these ult changes, sniping ppl w/ haymaker can be more of a thing now

mana on malf ult gotta be jimmy

 

[Milly79]

As if anyone took Illusionist because of that extra, that might as well not be there. The only times this happens from my experience is when you're being stunlocked and then you're dead anyway.

 

[Alur]

Fan, Glaurung, and Cattlepillar vs McIntyre and bigempct in HL on Twitch right now. We EU now.

EDIT: Apparently Mac and bige's team got trolled by first pick Sylv + Valla, so the other team basically got everything they wanted.

 

[Ketch]

yea. mac has first ban/pick. leaves li ming open, the other team doesn't ban it either. and then some dude first picks sylvanas.

 

[Alur]

Didn't even know bige streamed. He's https://www.twitch.tv/bigempct3 if anyone wanted to follow him.

 

[Ketch]

that whole stream just gone down the drain

 

[brian!]

Oh today is an na qualifier, does anyone know when it is?

 

[Ketch]

And are they playing with today's balance updates?

 

[Nirolak]

Thrall

Sundering (R)
Stun duration reduced from 1.5 to 1.25 seconds.

Developer Comments: We want to make some basic improvements to a lot of the lesser-picked/lower win-rate Heroic Abilities. Most of these are pretty simple changes to make them more enticing, like adding more damage, reducing cooldowns, or lowering Mana costs. We realize that the primary use case for Abilities like Li Li’s Water Dragon or E.T.C.’s Stage Dive is not damage, but having more of it might help them feel more effective. We’re trying to do something a little bit different with Brightwing’s Emerald Wind and Malfurion’s Twilight Dream by compensating for some of the Support capability you miss out on by picking these Heroics. We’re excited to see how these go! In Thrall’s case, Sundering was a little too strong, so we’re reducing its stun duration.

Here's 100 words on how we want to improve less picked talents to make them more attractive. As such, we're nerfing Sundering.

Did this comment come under the wrong note?

 

[Milly79]

GFE's new roster

Fury
khroen
Roflcopter
MichaelUdall
akaface

Daaaaaamn

 

[kirblar]

And are they playing with today's balance updates?

Yes. (Zoia not happy.)

 

[brickwalker0]

Here's 100 words on how we want to improve less picked talents to make them more attractive. As such, we're nerfing Sundering.

Did this comment come under the wrong note?

i found it oddly placed as well. i know sundering is one of the best ults for engagement/disengagement but i'm not sure if this is what makes him so strong right now. seems to be a numbers thing with him, shares a similar power spike to Lunara and Artanis where they go from having sub-par damage to almost too much after 13/16.

 

[Maledict]

Yes. (Zoia not happy.)

WElcome to EU!

Actually this is ultra shitty even for them. Some of these changes are substantial, and at least last time around they TOLD us what changes would be coming so teams could at least mentally adjust.

Is Kael'Thas good? Was Illidan nerfed too much? Is Falstad still such high priority? Is Water Dragon Lili now a thing?

HAving to play hours after a balance update hits is dumb. But it's no surprise given Blizzards flats refusal to adopt even the basics of e-sports good practice (and then wonder why the game doesn't grow as fast as they want it to).

 

[brian!]

i found it oddly placed as well. i know sundering is one of the best ults for engagement/disengagement but i'm not sure if this is what makes him so strong right now. seems to be a numbers thing with him, shares a similar power spike to Lunara and Artanis where they go from having sub-par damage to almost too much after 13/16.

His numbers are good but sunder is what makes him so good.

Fstad and thrall ults are why they are higher than li ming for me

 

[Familienoberhauptvogel]

When is the NA qualifier, I find nothing on ESLs page just for the 2nd Regional

 

[Milly79]

Patch is out

 

[Ketch]

Zoia not happy

shocking news!

 

[Alur]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qpo9J7coD8Q

Fan's thoughts on the changes.

 

[brickwalker0]

His numbers are good but sunder is what makes him so good.

Fstad and thrall ults are why they are higher than li ming for me

i think i just suck with his ult then, lol.

he's one of the few assassins i "main" but i tend to end up pushing the enemy out of harms way when using sundering >_>

 

[brian!]

Good rule of thumb is to try to push them into stuff whether it's walls or teammates, and also to check whether important follow-up is mounted up or not. If you have good aoe follow-up try to slap em to the same side, and if you dont try to separate squishies from their peel.

Blink ult is some nastiness

 

[brickwalker0]

Good rule of thumb is to try to push them into stuff whether it's walls or teammates, and also to check whether important follow-up is mounted up or not. If you have good aoe follow-up try to slap em to the same side, and if you dont try to separate squishies from their peel.

Blink ult is some nastiness

hmm yeah i don't pay enough attention to my team's comp when those situations arise, should probably start doing that. i think that initial delay before sundering comes out messes me up too.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qpo9J7coD8Q

Fan's thoughts on the changes.

great points, that was a good listen. totally forgot Thralls lane presence is one of the best around.

 

[Milly79]

I wish they'd do something with Earthquake.

 

[brian!]

Sunder is also good to swing a fight and stop their momentum

Its nice that they nerfed it so it's not a multiple person muradin q now tho

 

[Pooya]

So I bought Li Ming, started a qm. Then when game starts I'm... Murky...wtf. everyone was laughing. I don't even own Murky.

 

[brickwalker0]

So I bought Li Ming, started a qm. Then when game starts I'm... Murky...wtf. everyone was laughing. I don't even own Murky.

that's being reported quite often since the recent big patch (with all the ranked changes, bans, etc). i queued up as Lunara, sat in queue as her until it matched me with 4 other people, one of which was also Lunara. when it got to the loading screen it gave me Brightwing (but i do own her).

not sure what causes the bug.

 

[Familienoberhauptvogel]

Straight from the horse's mouth

 

[brian!]

hope fan does more videos like that, he's got that almost asmr voice

 

[Milly79]

Azmodunk is out. So sick.