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Heroes of the Storm |OT2| Imitation is the sincerest form of flattery

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scoobs

scoobs

Member
Face roll in that you can waste all 3 of your blinks diving in as deep as you damn well please, knowing full well that you can recall and blink far enough away that nobody can punish you. Its silly. If it isn't a get-out-of-jail-free-card, I don't know what is.

There should be a risk/reward to using your blinks at the appropriate times to dive for kills and still have enough to get away. With this talent it simply doesn't matter. Blink all you want, you have 2 more in reserve.
 
A

Alur

Member
Sure.

You can use all your blinks, do W+R, then E out. And then wait 20-24 seconds on your cool down and have no ult. You'll also likely have lost a significant portion of health. If your team didn't follow up or their healer was paying attention, you probably didn't do too much damage in the grand scheme cause the burst is not really very good and you can't have any uptime as you hit the "oh shit" button immediately.

You act like she's darting in and one-shotting with no repercussions. She uses everything notable she has to do that ~60-70% damage on squishy at best.
 
A

Alur

Member
Familienoberhauptvogel said:
At least this time it isn't me defending the allegedly broken hero. Shit's tiresome.
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There's no doubt she'll get the nerf bat if her winrate stays in Nazeebo/TLV land. That's an inevitability.

My argument is simply that the risk/reward of using all of your CD's to do perhaps 3/5ths to 2/3rds of a heroes health at best is already there. You give up health and all your relevant CD's to do that outside of the two blink charges if you took Spatial Echo. If there was no Spatial Echo available or taken at all you could argue that she actually netted a negative by taking that damage and blowing all that for so little impact versus what Li-Ming or KT can do with one combo.

I guess ultimately I'm saying I feel she is at her best as a finisher, not an initiator, and I suspect that over time we'll see players shift from the "blow it all to engage" style to a more annoying, flit around the battle style where the moment someone gets within range she'll pounce and finish (a-la Greymane). Now if you're flanking only and it goes well, you can still blow everything and still have your health. But mostly what I see people doing is going head on with Q+Q+Q+W+R+E and getting chunked to do some damage.

jediyoshi said:
Interesting seeing the ETC here going with stage dive. Did the buff make it viable?
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I've seen it in some competitive games. One or two Quick Match games. It's okay, but Mosh is still king when it comes to pleb play.
 
M

Milly79

Member
Holy wall of text, Alur. I agree with it though.

And Tracer isn't OP. She's annoying, like Murky. Her winrate is going to get her nerfed though.
 
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kirblar

Member
Spacial Echo is insane relative to the other two options for her mobility. Blink Blink Blink Recall Blink Blink Blink is kiiiiinda dumb.
 
A

Alur

Member
I can see Spatial Echo and Slipstream both getting the nerf if she holds this level of winrate or higher through next week. Hopefully when they do it they give her a little love on some of her other talents outside of the base build people are using, cause there's not really much variety IMO.

Granted we probably won't see those nerfs til two weeks from next Tuesday (unless they nerf her a week after her wide launch...which would kinda suck for those people who adopted late).
 
C

Celegus

Member
Thank you solo support Kharazim for going full damage monk, I really wanted nothing more than to continue my HL losing streak.
 
C

Cerato

Neo Member
Been playing a lot of kerrigan, and don't think tracer is too bad. Kerrigan is a hero that can get easily caught out by a lot of heroes, so one more isn't a big deal. Dont get caught out. Li ming makes you pay way harder than tracer.

And you can catch her in combos, mostly when she's paying attention to someone else.
 
F

Familienoberhauptvogel

Banned
Stolen from reddit but gifified.

Wvnxhpz.gif
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A

Alur

Member
Dunno. I thought season 1 potentially too but that'd be a real bombshell. Most likely just a couple heroes and maybe a map like the last two years.
 
scoobs

scoobs

Member
Ketch said:
when is blizzard stuff supposed to happen at pax?

maybe season 1?
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They're having a HOTS panel? I had no clue blizz was going to be at PAX. My nipples are hard

I'm ready to see some brand new heroes for sure. Some freaking supports would be nice.
 
F

Familienoberhauptvogel

Banned
KT already being picked above Li Ming.

Was it too much to ask for KT to remain unviable for a bit longer?

Not kidding actual competitive comp Li Ming, Stitches, Greymane, Malfurion and Lili. Dunno what adrd is up to.
 
M

Maledict

Member
I'm not BKBs biggest fan (don't dislike him, just don't rate him that much), but those plays on Muradin were amazing. Literally perfect.

That was also the match where TLV killed Valla in the backline using some truly amazing body blocking. Was a fun game, and interesting that TLV now seem to be a team liquid staple.
 
M

Maledict

Member
Interesting how Dignitas keep using that Kael build which no-one else is touching. Trait talents at 1 and 4, but then Burnt Flesh at 7 and Fury of the Sunwell at 16. Much less single target power but obviously incredibly potent flamestrikes.

It does show the failure of the level 1 talents though - practically no build is using them right now, even one focussed on spamming flamestrikes like the Dignitas build.
 
Z

zoukka

Member
Tracer is quite tricky to play actually. The hero is nowhere near as bad as Li-Ming with the unavoidable beam spam and burst.
 
M

Maledict

Member
Dignitas's main weakness is they are *so* passive when they don't have a level lead. They refuse to fight, at all, even when they could easily win, and then lose the game by being ground down around the map.

It's really sad to see, but I really think they need to work on their shotcalling.
 
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kirblar

Member
Maledict said:
Interesting how Dignitas keep using that Kael build which no-one else is touching. Trait talents at 1 and 4, but then Burnt Flesh at 7 and Fury of the Sunwell at 16. Much less single target power but obviously incredibly potent flamestrikes.

It does show the failure of the level 1 talents though - practically no build is using them right now, even one focussed on spamming flamestrikes like the Dignitas build.
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5% ap needs to go om the heal talent.
 
A

Alur

Member
Well he didn't specify HOTS, just Blizzard reddits.

But, we have had reveals at the last two PAX events in 2014 and 2015 plus we don't know who is next, so seems like a good bet.
 
M

Maledict

Member
Data West said:
Tracer can rewind out of Butcher's charge stun

wow what a fair and balanced hero that is fair and balanced
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She can't rewind out of the stun, but she can rewind out of the charge if it's on her I think.

And there's nothing wrong with that at all? It's a MOBA, heroes are supposed to have cool and powerful things. The fact that Butcher is really bad right now doesn't have anything to do with Tracer, he just needs a significant look over.
 
D

Data West

coaches in the WNBA
Maledict said:
She can't rewind out of the stun, but she can rewind out of the charge if it's on her I think.

And there's nothing wrong with that at all? It's a MOBA, heroes are supposed to have cool and powerful things. The fact that Butcher is really bad right now doesn't have anything to do with Tracer, he just needs a significant look over.
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Is Tracer's cool and powerful thing supposed to cancel out other people feeling 'cool and powerful'? You think it's cool and powerful that she runs a monopology on treasure chests and dragon knight shrines?

It's cool if you like playing her dude, you can still admit she breaks aspects of the game.
 
M

Maledict

Member
Data West said:
Is Tracer's cool and powerful thing supposed to cancel out other people feeling 'cool and powerful'? You think it's cool and powerful that she runs a monopology on treasure chests and dragon knight shrines?

It's cool if you like playing her dude, you can still admit she breaks aspects of the game.
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So do many heroes. I think Tracer is probably too strong right now, but not in this respect. The fundamental aspect of MOBA hero design is "Heroes feel OP".

Li-Ming one-shots people from afar, then blinks forward and does the same again immediately to someone else, killing your entire team on her own. Greymane can burn you from afar and then suddenly be in your face and you're dead instantly without reaction time. There are tons and tons of heroes who do things that "break the rules of the game", and there are tons and tons of heroes who have the ability to cancel out what other heroes do. That's the basic of hero design.

Hero's countering other heroes like that is part and parcel of the game. Heck, Falstad is played heavily because his ult basically cancels out almost every other ult in the game when you need it.

(Heck, Zeratul has been able to completely negate Kael's pyroblast since launch now).
 
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