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[kirblar]

but i'd luv to talk about lili if that's where the conversation is going because I do think she is probably the weakest hero in the game
+ I do think that the correlation between winrate and hero strength is not very important

Context. Context. Context.

TL and HL and QM all present radically different contexts for hero evaluation.

QM exacerbates strengths/weaknesses, heroes like Tracer or Abathur have a feast/famine situation since there's no draft counterplay and if you get a team that can't fight Abathur or that can't suipport him, the game might be close to over before it starts.

HL emphasizes individual playskill. In HL, spread DoT and HoTs are very powerful because of the lack of coordination- hence why Li Li and Zeebo get insane here. Li Li especially since she can blow up so many heroes with blinds on top of thehealing.

TL emphasizes group coordination. Tricks that work in HL don't here. Strategies and counter-play are possible here that aren't in HL because you have everyone on the same page.


You can be godlike in HL and trash in TL. And that's fine, and it's actually healthy for the game.

 

[brian!]

yeah I don't disagree w/ that

im not even really comfortable w/ this idea that lili is strong in hl, the stats arent really working for me to this end

like i'm checking out her diamond/master stuff and she's only played in ~19% (53.7 wr) of games? uther in contrast is played ~40% (48.2 wr), these things radically alter the context of the wr stat
for ex. rehgar sitting at .5% less wr than lili but being part of ~66% of drafts...it's hard to really see lili as strong (statwise) in hl for me

nazeebo is also rarely played, but his w is def stronger in the context of things like kael being involved in ~95% of drafts

additional relevant things to consider when thinking about game modes imo:
qm: winrate may be more affected by generalizability of the hero, w/ base stats and one-size-fits-all-ness being more influential here (dunno the stats for qm)
hl: I do feel like kirb is putting too much into "individual playskill" but I mean ima defer obviously, but I'd say the main thing is inability to identify win conditions and to assertively end games (some lili wr thinking can be put into this, since her lvl 20 is a great spike for her for example); games rarely end before 20 here I'm thinking but I dunno where id find this stat
tl: ppl probably know what they want to do, but this is also probably the mode where the most fucking around happens too I'd think

 

[kirblar]

The Dragon and the Polymorph are two different heroes.

 

[Syf]

The Dragon and the Polymorph are two different heroes.

That's pretty hot if true, hopefully not just weird wording

Also ActiBlizz financials are out today, another chance to get some idea of how the game is doing (but probably not)

 

[Syf]

nvm.

oh god I hope nobody saw that

 

[Celegus]

Isn't it a little early to be drinking already?

 

[Alur]

Not for Syf. If it's an hour between 1-12, it's a good time to start.

 

[Syf]

lol guys please

 

[Alur]

What did you mistakenly post last night then, sir?

 

[Syf]

???

that was at 7:45 this morning alur even I don't start til 8

 

[Alur]

I don't read timestamps breh. Damn. DO YOU KNOW WHAT THE NEWS IS OR NOT C'MON

 

[Syf]

ladder stuff, arena mode, new reconnect system, new engine. I can also confirm that it isn't a dragon, and it isn't two different heroes, it's just the hearthstone innkeeper playing RNG abilities. maybe you'll get a dragon scout and maybe you'll polymorph a teammate, who knows

 

[Zackat]

ladder stuff, arena mode, new reconnect system, new engine. I can also confirm that it isn't a dragon, and it isn't two different heroes, it's just the hearthstone innkeeper playing RNG abilities. maybe you'll get a dragon scout and maybe you'll polymorph a teammate, who knows

I called that shit last page.

 

[Syf]

I'm just confirming man

 

[kirblar]

Khaldor just tweeted out about knowing everything that's happening Friday, for those worried he was being blacklisted again.

 

[Maledict]

Why would people think Khaldor was blacklisted - he was at the event? There's photo's of him at Blizzards HQs from tuesday?

 

[Zackat]

I'm just confirming man

Oh I know. I just hyped

 

[kirblar]

Why would people think Khaldor was blacklisted - he was at the event? There's photo's of him at Blizzards HQs from tuesday?

He didn't attention-whore and post about it prior to like everyone else was doing.

 

[Alur]

I think Soka was just confused is all. Hasn't he said he doesn't follow the esports scene of HOTS? Last we really discussed Khaldor a lot was when he got blacklisted, but yeah that's all changed now. He was definitely at the event.

 

[Zackat]

I wonder how big the patch notes will be for this one. New record? I guess it depends on the release schedule for this stuff.

 

[RumblingRosco]

I think Soka was just confused is all. Hasn't he said he doesn't follow the esports scene of HOTS? Last we really discussed Khaldor a lot was when he got blacklisted, but yeah that's all changed now. He was definitely at the event.

Yeah, that was basically it. As you probably have noticed, I basically never discuss HOTS esports in here - not really my thing, I guess. So all I know of Khaldor is from YouTube, but I hadn't noticed him posting anything too "in-the-know" recently, and then recalled that there had been discussion about him maybe being blacklisted ~6-12 months ago. So, I started to wonder what ever happened to that and figured you weirdos with your esports love would know. And you did! =D

In other news, I've almost got Sonya to level 9. But I still want her nerfed.

 

[Alur]

I wonder how big the patch notes will be for this one. New record? I guess it depends on the release schedule for this stuff.

Depends. Maybe they won't roll out many balance changes with it...or they'll break up some of the stuff and release it in 2 good sized patches instead of one huge one. Then again, all of this seems likely to be intended to be the much-loved "2.0" thing for the launch anniversary.

In other news, I've almost got Sonya to level 9. But I still want her nerfed.

It's like when Yoshichan leveled Murky guys. You will convert.

 

[Alur]

I had a giggle m8 at the reddit sleuths pooping on Srey once again in his #1 QM/HL post. Dude has legitimate heat in the HOTS community. If he embraced it he could work his way up to nicky2hotty levels.

 

[Zackat]

I had a giggle m8 at the reddit sleuths pooping on Srey once again in his #1 QM/HL post. Dude has legitimate heat in the HOTS community. If he embraced it he could work his way up to nicky2hotty levels.

He's like Arturo from the FGC.

This game has too many parallels to street fighter V.

 

[kirblar]

He's like Arturo from the FGC.

This game has too many parallels to street fighter V.

Arturo is broadly liked though. He just happens to be the King of shit mountain right now w/ the leaderboards.

 

[Zackat]

Arturo is broadly liked though. He just happens to be the King of shit mountain right now w/ the leaderboards.

Oh I know, I enjoy watching Art's streams. Does Srey even stream at all? Or does he just make a gloat thread on Reddit every once in a while? I really only watch Grubby, chu, and tournaments for HotS at this point so idk. I just feel like all I ever hear about him is salty stuff and the like, especially with that reddit detective there.

 

[Alavard]

New tweet hint about the new heroes. Shows two shots hitting Arthas at once, killing him. One appears to be some sort of arcane shot and the other is presumably a golden dragon head.

Popular belief on Reddit is that the dragon head shot comes from Chromie, and the other is from an important Warcraft mage - most likely Millhouse Manastorm, Khadgar, Medivh, or ugh, Rhonin

 

[Nirolak]

If that's a Bronze Dragonflight head, then we're back to Chromie in all likelihood.

Chromie never had a unique dragon form, so I'm guessing she is getting one now that includes the Ysera headdress.

Polymorph is an arcane skill, as is that magic attack, so whoever the most notable arcane mage is makes sense.

 

[Zackat]

If that's a Bronze Dragonflight head, then we're back to Chromie in all likelihood.

Chromie never had a unique dragon form, so I'm guessing she is getting one now that includes the Ysera headdress.

Polymorph is an arcane skill, as is that magic attack, so whoever the most notable arcane mage is makes sense.

Medivh or Khadgar for the movie tie-in?


That is if it isn't the Hearthstone Innkeeper doing his randomness

 

[Alavard]

Polymorph is an arcane skill, as is that magic attack, so whoever the most notable arcane mage is makes sense.

The problem is that there isn't really a mage from Warcraft known specifically for arcane. Medivh and Khadgar were both skilled in magic abilities across the board, Rhonin is a Mary Sue who could do anything at anytime, and Millhouse Manastorm definitely uses Fire, Frost, and Arcane attacks whenever you run into him in WoW.

And since Polymorph to a sheep has been a staple ability for mages going all the way back to Warcraft II (basic mages and Khadgar could do it in War II, and basic sorceresses could do it in War III), that doesn't help narrow it down at all.

Edit - there is one character known for Arcane magic, but that would be Malygos, another Dragon. And while he would technically be able to polymorph, I don't think he ever does, he's far more direct with his damaging abilities.

 

[Syf]

That is if it isn't the Hearthstone Innkeeper doing his randomness

I am kind of seriously hoping for the innkeeper now lol

 

[kirblar]

Apparently Glaurung has been told 3-mans are coming back to HL. (PMed Wiz while Wiz was streaming) - http://puu.sh/oHlqr/1d5117ceb2.jpg

Odds high this is something Dreadnaught didn't like.

 

[Maledict]

Yep, I definitely think that's one of the two things. Wonder who broke the NDA and told Glaur...

(Not that Blizzard wouldn't have anticipated this).

 

[Maledict]

BTW I can confirm that "ismatchmakingfixedyet" is correct - hero loeague match making is stil broken.

A rank 1 and rank 2 player shouldn't be placed into games with unranked people on their placement matches. Nor should they be put in matches with rank 11 players. I just got 114 points for winning a match and I haven't had that many per win since the big matchmaking overhaul.

 

[Zackat]

I am kind of seriously hoping for the innkeeper now lol

I honestly have no idea how they would implement him. And some crazy AoE polymorph on random? lol That'd be something to see them try and balance.

Apparently Glaurung has been told 3-mans are coming back to HL. (PMed Wiz while Wiz was streaming) - http://puu.sh/oHlqr/1d5117ceb2.jpg

Odds high this is something Dreadnaught didn't like.

There has to be something to go with this right? I get going down to 2 was an unpopular decision for many but it helped a lot with more fair matchmaking, no?

 

[Maledict]

Matchmaking isn't working well right now to be honest. It feels like they undid the change they made before christmas. There's no way players in their placement matches should be matched up with rank 1 players.

EDIT: Looking at hotslogs, the issue is the matchmaker is back to its old tricks. It's matching really high MMR people with low people to balance the average group MMR. In my last game, the enemy team had a 3500 MMR player so he get a 2400 MMR player to compensate. That's a 1100 MMR difference. Should I be tweeting this stuff at Dustin?

 

[kirblar]

There has to be something to go with this right? I get going down to 2 was an unpopular decision for many but it helped a lot with more fair matchmaking, no?

League recently let 3-4 mans in their ranked play. Probably a reaction to that, along with unranked draft not being ready to go (and Browder's all but said they know it needs to be added.)

 

[Maledict]

Grubby on his stream saying that there was a lot of media from different countries there for the summit as well, so expect a barrage of stuff tomorrow. It seems like the purpose of the visit wasn't to get their feedback on it (as it's already locked in) - it was to use them to spread the word about changes.

 

[Syf]

Only one bit of info about HotS from the financial stuff, Heroes of the Dorm viewership was up 17%

 

[Maledict]

Grubby will be streaming info from the summit at 17:00 CEST tomorrow, if it hasn't leaked by then. on his stream he said that the summit has taken away his two biggest worries for HotS, so that's good news.

 

[thekillermuffin]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_EqRdMlyIZU&feature=youtu.be

Heroes Brazil dun fucked up.

Chromie and Medivh confirmed!!

 

[kirblar]

Someone save it to disk before it's taken down!

 

[Syf]

Widowmaker Nova skin confirmed too

Medivh though!!

 

[Ketch]

So chrome seems like a full on damage Mage, and medivhs looks more like a half support..... Also medivhs model is like miles ahead of anything else in the game right now. And that wolf mount must be a promotional thing? Like how you gonna have epic version of the Same mount?

Edit:
Damn already down?

 

[kirblar]

LOL @ Medivh literally opening a Dark Portal.

Chromie has the Wizard's Time Bubble from D3.

 

[scoobs]

So the Chromie leaks were legit. Medivh a nice surprise, but I really hope we aren't just getting 2 more mage assassins here. Desperately need supports

 

[thekillermuffin]

So the Chromie leaks were legit. Medivh a nice surprise, but I really hope we aren't just getting 2 more mage assassins here. Desperately need supports

Unfortunately the video is down now so I can't rewatch, but Medivh came off a little support-like in the snippets of footage. Chromie is 100% an assassin though.

 

[kirblar]

Medivh's mount appears to be his bird form.
His polymorph works like chain bomb.
Has a "Night Owl" costume that's a reference to Watchmen.

 

[Alavard]

Medivh looks legit amazing. I love that they've used his Warcraft III version as a base, and even give him his bird shape-shifting ability.

 

[kirblar]

Chromie 100% assassin, has the AOE slow and two damage abilities (no sign of the Ults yet)

Medivh has no damage abilities shown, definitely looks like a Tass/Ty style support (possibly zero healing?)