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[Alur]

Because the competition in league is 10 times the competition in hots. If you took a tier 2 league team gave them a month to train hots they could probably contend with C9.

I agree, but was Arthelon even on a tier 2 team in League? Dude can't even contend with the best HOTS team (and maybe even the best 4 or 5), by the looks of it, yet complains there is no skill.

Does not compute.

Yep. He's only in HotS because he can earn money from it, whilst in League he wouldn't be anywhere near the professional level...

....I'm beginning to actively want C9 to lose and break up nowadays thanks to these sort of comments.

Well, he was on Challenger teams in League. A bunch of em, that's part of where his rep comes from. Agree he couldn't get there now, though, after all this time off, when he didn't get into LCS then either.

And yeah, same. I just want them to put in the work to get better. If they aren't willing to, I can't say I'll be sad if they get beaten by someone they shouldn't.

 

[Milly79]

Just when I thought he couldn't get any more dumb.

 

[Familienoberhauptvogel]

they don't need to put in the work just need to respect illidan

 

[Alur]

They don't need to put in the work to beat MVP Black, eStar, Dig, etc? Ok then.

I really think you are over inflating the Illidan in that last tournament. It was Kael'thas who was eating people's lunch the majority of the time from my POV.

EDIT: They never picked nor banned Illidan one time in that tournament from the stats I'm looking at. That's very interesting.

 

[Familienoberhauptvogel]

They don't need to put in the work to beat MVP Black, eStar, Dig, etc? Ok then.

I really think you are over inflating the Illidan in that last tournament. It was Kael'thas who was eating people's lunch the majority of the time from my POV.

EDIT: They never picked nor banned Illidan one time in that tournament from the stats I'm looking at. That's very interesting.

I meant in NA they don't seem to care about worlds, and yeah that's my point.
Dig doesn't play Illidan and look what they banned each and every game.
C9 doesn't play Illidan and they don't even ban him 2nd rotation.

Even CoG gave C9 a run for their money with Illidan until they did what CoG does.

 

[kirblar]

New rules for the matchmaker for high-level players seem borked:

 

[Maledict]

I've had numerous games where everyone has been rank 1 and 2, and then someone has a person still on their placement matches in their team.

Whatever they did with the tracer patch, it basically broke the matchmaker and took it back to how it was pre the big matchmaking patch.

 

[Alur]

New rules for the matchmaker for high-level players seem borked:

Those teams look like our hodgepodge team league games.

I've had numerous games where everyone has been rank 1 and 2, and then someone has a person still on their placement matches in their team.

Did you check the MMR afterwards? When I got rank 1 for the second time (post reset) on one of my smurfs, I did it well after the reset and was put into games with other rank 1's/2's/3's while in placement and afterwards when it spit me out at rank 5 or 6 (cause that's as high as you could get post placement).

My MMR was the same as the others which was why I was getting those games.

 

[Maledict]

Did a couple of games on the PTR as Chromie (one was a brawl with blues game).

First was dragonshire, so I went the dragon crash build. It seemed powerful, but my team was so random it was hard to tell as the enemy team had a four level lead on us. One issue is that at 20 you don't have a great choice of talents with this build. Second game was sky temple and I went the sandblast build - which was surprisingly powerful. Between the quest, the piercing talent, the range and the "stack ability power when you hit" talent the damage ramped up really, really fast.

One thing I would say - the level 7 talent which halves the cooldown on Dragonblast but decreases its damage by 25% seems really, really good. It feels like it helps you contribute a *lot* in team fights, and also in lane battles.

 

[kirblar]

Yeah, that doesn't seem like something you can easily pass up in most builds.

 

[Alur]

First was dragonshire, so I went the dragon crash build. It seemed powerful, but my team was so random it was hard to tell as the enemy team had a four level lead on us. One issue is that at 20 you don't have a great choice of talents with this build. Second game was sky temple and I went the sandblast build - which was surprisingly powerful. Between the quest, the piercing talent, the range and the "stack ability power when you hit" talent the damage ramped up really, really fast.

Sandblast (Q) build is where it's at. I wanted to be all in on the W myself, but after seeing the fact that Q is basically the same damage (without talenting W damage, anyway), can pierce, and the quest is very easy to complete...so much damage. The slight delay causes a few misses, but it's a super strong ability.

One thing I would say - the level 7 talent which halves the cooldown on Dragonblast but decreases its damage by 25% seems really, really good. It feels like it helps you contribute a *lot* in team fights, and also in lane battles.

I've went both this and Dragon's Eye. Not sure Mobius Loop is a definite must get though I did really like the CD reduction a ton. The CD is really helpful to shore up her basically non-existent siege/wave clear. You aren't laning long after that anyway, so I wouldn't pick it for that purpose, it's more to clear waves as you are moving around the map. Dragon's Eye turns it into a smaller radius, slightly less damage Precision Strike that you can use every 14 seconds instead of every 60. On the flip side, if you hit two Mobius Looped W's, you are getting more damage than 1 Dragon's Eye W. /shrug. It's also hard to discount how harrowing having the W dropping multiple times in a team fight is with the short CD Q's shooting everywhere too.

I think they are both useful. Dragon's Eye lets you insta-gib at range as the game goes later. It's super strong, but perhaps Mobius Loop will be more synergistic with the Q build because of the rate of fire with your CD's.

As for the level 20's, for shits and giggles take the Andorhal Anomaly. It makes you pretty survivable, sets up nice wombos, and is generally a pain in the ass if anyone is trying to push on your team and you have time to set up (any map with a pushing objective that you can see coming ahead of time, basically). Pretty fun.

What were you doing at 13? I went range every time. It's stupid how much better/easier/safer it makes you.

 

[brian!]

Id prob go with that talent but man 7 secs is still a long time

 

[Alur]

Not for an ability that hits like a truck IMO. Flamestrike is also 7 sec CD, and once you take away the damage due to the 7 talent (to get that 7 sec cooldown) they are basically identical except Chromie's doesn't have a tell on the ground to move out of. Chromie's W base is more damage, just longer CD. The CD reduction just puts it even.

 

[brian!]

Tru

 

[kirblar]

https://www.reddit.com/r/heroesofthestorm/comments/4ivjqv/jaina_does_not_need_buffs_the_more_popular_mages/

Good mage feedback on Reddit- tldr: Kael and Li Ming are too generically good, need to have a niche established. Jaina is much closer to where Mages should be and may not really "need" a buff if you nerf her competition.

 

[jaundicejuice]

Mobius Loop gives Chromie more lane pushing power and it can help in teamfights where the enemy team is more eratic. The 25% dmg reduction is mitigated by the reduced mana cost and CD that's halved. I tend to take Dragon's Eye with the Sand Blast build.

Sand Blast on its own is really strong and it's even stronger with talents but without the Dragon's Breathe talents, Chromie's utility outside of teamfights is pretty limited. I've been running with these two builds mostly...

Dragon's Breathe build
1 - Deep Breathing
3 - Enveloping Assault
6 - Mobius Loop
9 - Slowing Sands
12 - Reaching Through Time
15 - Quantum Overdrive
19 - Pocket of Time

Sand Blast build
1 - Compounding Aether
3 - Piercing Sands
6 - Dragon's Eye
9 - Slowing Sands
12 - Reaching Through Time
15 - Shifting Sands
19 - Past and Future Me

Timewalkers Pursuit's flat 5% ability damage boost/mana regen doesn't seem particularly worthwhile and the truesight talent at that tier is worthless. Bronze Talons is not bad actually but Piercing Sands is just better. Chrono Sickness might be worthwhile if you're going for Andorhal Anomaly late-game but I haven't found much use for it versus the two Dragon's Breathe talents at that tier. Temporal Loop seems super, super niche but could make for some nice plays on a coordinated team. Time Out and Bye Bye! are bother useful survival tools.

https://www.reddit.com/r/heroesofthestorm/comments/4ivjqv/jaina_does_not_need_buffs_the_more_popular_mages/

Good mage feedback on Reddit- tldr: Kael and Li Ming are too generically good, need to have a niche established. Jaina is much closer to where Mages should be and may not really "need" a buff if you nerf her competition.

Pretty much agree. Jaina is the only well designed Mage because she actually has drawbacks. She's slow, she's squishy and she has to be up close to do maximum damage. There's risk/reward built into her kit and playstyle. KT is slow and squishy but is a lot more hit and run with Living Bomb, he has some decent self-sustain and a great stun. Li-Ming is just squish-y, has insane self-sustain and mobility, can nuke minions, building and enemy heroes from downtown. Chromie is going to be even more problematic than Li-Ming because she'll be able to nuke people from even further away. The upside is her siege damage potential isn't as nuts as Li-Ming from level 1.

 

[Schnauzer]

This is going to sound stupid, but would a Disc Priest work in this game? Healing 150% of the damage received, or something like that? I just think it'd be really fun. The healing would have to be better in the right situation, as the wrong situation your kind of SOL....and have to attack to heal people up.

 

[brian!]

is disc priest a cool way of saying dj
but the mechanics you describe exist in dehaka and monk it probably wouldnt be that hard to make a hero like that
personally I wouldnt want the next support to have another healing gimmick though, but im really into the idea of skills that require good timing for value in a support

also wow at the vitriol for arth in that reddit thread
this whole paragraph in the op lol:

What do you think ? I completely disagree with him but I would love your opinion on the matter. Do you think that he is right ? Do you think that it's an issue with the competitive state of the game ? Or do you think he's just salty and should practice more to reach the level of the top korean players ? Do you think it's good for C9 to have this kind of mentality ?

 

[Milly79]

Yeah, I think it could work for sure.

 

[jaundicejuice]

I think one of the biggest problems with Kael'Thas is the free harass he gets from Verdant Spheres empowered Living Bomb. KT can spend no mana and harass the enemy hero or damage a creep wave every 6 seconds with a free Living Bomb. That kind of defeats the purpose of that ability having a 10 second cooldown and a 50 mana cost. If he lost the free Living Bomb, and Verdant Spheres just added another effect like a Fission Bomb AoE instead, it would impact his damage output and mean he would have to spend mana while laning to harass enemy heroes or push a wave--just like every other hero in the game.

 

[Celegus]

is disc priest a cool way of saying dj

I've never played WoW, so I've always imagined an out-of-touch preacher showing up to a teen summer camp in short khakis and a visor asking if the kids want to play some ultimate frisbee.

 

[kirblar]

Chromie's waveclear issues are real. She seems like a better Nova.

 

[Familienoberhauptvogel]

The problem with KT is and will always be gravity lapse. That stun is stupid.

 

[brian!]

I've never played WoW, so I've always imagined an out-of-touch preacher showing up to a teen summer camp in short khakis and a visor asking if the kids want to play some ultimate frisbee.

holy shit
he could say things like "that throw...was heavenly"

I think one of the biggest problems with Kael'Thas is the free harass he gets from Verdant Spheres empowered Living Bomb. KT can spend no mana and harass the enemy hero or damage a creep wave every 6 seconds with a free Living Bomb. That kind of defeats the purpose of that ability having a 10 second cooldown and a 50 mana cost. If he lost the free Living Bomb, and Verdant Spheres just added another effect like a Fission Bomb AoE instead, it would impact his damage output and mean he would have to spend mana while laning to harass enemy heroes or push a wave--just like every other hero in the game.

ostensibly he should be getting punished for it since he has to get close but it's not fun to play against for sure

 

[jaundicejuice]

The problem with KT is and will always be gravity lapse. That stun is stupid.

Just be glad he can't hit you with a meatball.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1KttgUsyVmA

 

[Familienoberhauptvogel]

Just be glad he can't hit you with a meatball.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1KttgUsyVmA

I could kill him with that at least when getting into melee range, contrary having to wait for GLapse to be on cd.

 

[jaundicejuice]

Did you miss the giant tornado right before the meteor? KT is like a low-rent Invoker, with none of the complexity and barely any combos.

 

[Familienoberhauptvogel]

Did you miss the giant tornado right before the meteor? KT is like a low-rent Invoker, with none of the complexity and barely any combos.

I thought that was a different heroe's ult.

 

[brian!]

ok i dunno why I thought chromie was just throwing out spells and hoping they hit, her kit is actually really nice for ensuring hits

just got eviscerated by a kingcaff premade and w/ a good comp she's a horror for sure

 

[jaundicejuice]

Chromie is Li-Ming but more skill shot-y, with greater range (at 12) but with none of the mobility and limited siege damage potential (depending on talents).

 

[brian!]

new seasoned and executioner sure are strong

 

[Ketch]

oh shit, what's the new seasoned marksman?

 

[Familienoberhauptvogel]

oh shit, what's the new seasoned marksman?

capped + berserk as a quest

 

[Alur]

Chromie is Li-Ming but more skill shot-y, with greater range (at 12) but with none of the mobility and limited siege damage potential (depending on talents).

That's pretty much my description to a "t".

 

[brian!]

raynor still isnt great early game, but his mid-late is kind of the best in the game now I guess

also the cog team just left the org
they renamed themselves to "brain power", which I'm pretty sure is a brain exercise game that nintendo made for the nintendo ds in like 2007

 

[Ketch]

you're thinking of sokudo

 

[Familienoberhauptvogel]

also the cog team just left the org
they renamed themselves to "brain power", which I'm pretty sure is a brain exercise game that nintendo made for the nintendo ds in like 2007

Leave or did CoG pull out again?

Edit: nvm

Hey guys, for people who are asking for more details, COGnitive made promises that they were not able to follow through with in the end. We felt it was in our best interest to move forward and look for other sponsorship opportunities. I'm sure someone will give a more professional response soon, but here's this to sort of give you guys an idea of what's going on.

 

[Ketch]

what's the SM capped at?

 

[brian!]

40 dmg, .2 for minion .5 for hero
then 30% atspd active
for a lvl 1 talent lol

also I dunno if you saw but they changed executioner so it lasts 3 seconds after the first hit for 30%

 

[Ketch]

14 minutes to reach cap if you only soak every minion in one lane for the duration. basically lvl 16

 

[Alur]

Leave or did CoG pull out again?

Can't blame em if there were pay or accommodation issues...but by the same token, it's not like there's a ton of sponsors floating around for HOTS for a team that's not top 2 in it's region.

I hope it works out for them. Also, is it me or does this happen to Faye a lot?

 

[Fine Ham Abounds]

It seems I've quit completely by accident. Just realized tonight I haven't played the game in more than a month.

Uncharted 4 arrives tomorrow from Gamefly, Blood and Wine at the end of the month, and by then most of you all will be moving to Overwatch, so I guess this is adieu.

 

[Zackat]

It seems I've quit completely by accident. Just realized tonight I haven't played the game in more than a month.

Uncharted 4 arrives tomorrow from Gamefly, Blood and Wine at the end of the month, and by then most of you all will be moving to Overwatch, so I guess this is adieu.

I've done that quite a few times since alpha. If you check back here and want to play just hit me up.

I may not play for a bit when OW comes out, same with Legion, and UC4 right this moment but I'll always come back.

All that said, they took way, way too long releasing that ranked update. I know the game is plenty of fun to play, but when there is no stakes in a team game people play poorly and don't care. I lost a lot of the will I had to rank up during this long period since release, but I think this new patch will bring me right back.

 

[Alur]

It seems I've quit completely by accident. Just realized tonight I haven't played the game in more than a month.

Uncharted 4 arrives tomorrow from Gamefly, Blood and Wine at the end of the month, and by then most of you all will be moving to Overwatch, so I guess this is adieu.

See ya man, I guess? Can't tell if you're saying you won't be back to HOTS, or that when you come back most of us will be gone. Either way, said to see one of us go even if it's only for a bit.

As for moving to Overwatch completely, I dunno. I personally feel the two games (HOTS and OW) are pretty complimentary and are kind of best played together. The best parts of OW really shore up the weaknesses of HOTS, and same for HOTS shoring up OW's shortcomings. I can't see myself leaving HOTS for OW only full time because there just isn't the same level of depth or whatever you want to call it for day-in, day-out play over months and months.

With HOTS finally getting all of the ranked features the community has asked for since, well, forever, I really feel it's the better long term investment. I don't mean that in a "it's gonna be the more successful game" sense, but in the 6 months from now I'll still be playing HOTS several times a week due to the constant iteration + new heroes/maps/etc whereas I don't really foresee Overwatch getting that amount of updates on the same scale.

I lost a lot of the will I had to rank up during this long period since release, but I think this new patch will bring me right back.

I think this is the case with a lot of people, and HOTS will probably see a nice surge in player base from old folks returning (and some new folks finally deeming it worthy of trying out to get their names on that shiny leaderboard) post "2.0" or whatever you want to call it.

 

[Familienoberhauptvogel]

Eh, I've not played hots for weeks multiple times by now, sometimes it just so happens. Wouldn't call that quitting though, to quit is a conscious decision. Lapsed fits.

 

[Alur]

Yep, I quit for about 2 months in Alpha. Had mostly quit again in Beta til Milly got into it and we played like crazy. Severely cut back playtime post RTBC last year, and when OW beta access came I played HOTS like once or twice a week for like a month.

I agree with Familie that it's kind of how it goes with long term games like mobas and mmos.

 

[Syf]

mhmm, normal. I haven't played in a while either. ow beta, diablo season, sc2 news has me playing that again too. the blizz cycle continues

 

[Alur]

I was all-in for Overwatch release (and still will be), but the shine is off a tad bit cause I'm so excited to play Chromie on live without a 30+ minute queue.

 

[Zackat]

Pretty much yeah. I let my sub lapse on wow for months at a time and when the new expansion hits I'll play it at least an hour every day for as long as I am raiding.

With mobas, shooters, fighting games and the like that are like this with no sub part of the ease of playing them is you feel no shackles for the day to day. Your stuff will always be there, so if you don't wanna play for 2 months no big deal. You can pick up right where you left off, no loot to grind or anything.

 

[Alur]

Hard to tell how many free $15 Blizz got out of me in WoW subs cause I took a break but didn't cancel just in case I wanted to log in for dailies or something. Same thing with SWTOR.