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Heroes of the Storm |OT2| Imitation is the sincerest form of flattery
- Thread starter Nirolak
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Eh it's just different draft strategies, im more of a keep the populace fed and happy + maybe they only play one character type of guy, im too afraid of situations like yours where they go out of their way to ruin the game.
I thought itd be different in overwatch but in placements i had ppl asking me to switch off phara in the lobby so they could play it and it turned out yeah thats all they play, so im happy to fill in those situations. Ranked in overwatch so far has been weird, you get ppl with really adamant and incorrect ideas about how things work but those same ppl are also open to switching heroes around and trying to adapt compwise, it's kind of interesting
Also one match with sum1 with a krn name where he was playing support and was like "guys im no good support but i will try", and someone switched off with him in the middle of the game, ugh sometimes you bump into lovely ppl in video games
I thought itd be different in overwatch but in placements i had ppl asking me to switch off phara in the lobby so they could play it and it turned out yeah thats all they play, so im happy to fill in those situations. Ranked in overwatch so far has been weird, you get ppl with really adamant and incorrect ideas about how things work but those same ppl are also open to switching heroes around and trying to adapt compwise, it's kind of interesting
Also one match with sum1 with a krn name where he was playing support and was like "guys im no good support but i will try", and someone switched off with him in the middle of the game, ugh sometimes you bump into lovely ppl in video games
We had someone do that as well (I wasn't banning though), and the Nova played a literal afk Abathur. I don't know what it is with Nova players, but that stereotype clearly exists for a reason.
jaundicejuice
Member
Heroes of the Storm is pretty weirdly positioned as the most casual moba in a already crowded market, was it ever going to do well as an eSport? It's nowhere near as complex as Dota and trying to be more accessible than League of Legends, it's going to attract an audience that doesn't really care all that much about a pro scene or it being an eSport.
That's why I like it. I don't have to watch the tournaments to stay on top of what the meta might be or watch 2 hour long videos on patch notes just so I can play the game at a semi-competent level. You just log in and play. HotS has a definite niche, it may just not include a robust or vibrant pro scene.
I think that you're right on, and that expectations need to be altered to where competitive play exists but is also more an outlet for the players (like say, Arena in WoW) rather than a focus of the game.
It can build to that point, but it'll take a lot of time. The issue is the external expectations for say, Cloud 9 et al aren't syncing with their internal ones I think.
They'll keep supporting it. Some level of Organized Play will be there.
Problem is lack of external support.
Being an MTG player, I know that pain all too well.
Amidst all the gloom we have to remember that HotS is the third biggest MOBA out there in esports terms, which is fairly impressive given all the other games and Smites long term standing. If they want to continue to build the scene and use it as an esport I think we need two things really:
1) Professional leagues, fixed in advance with dates and times for viewership.
2) substantial ingame stuff that can be bought to support your team, like SMITE does. Take the most played hero for each pro team, give them a skin and the profits go straight back to the org. Lets have team loading screens, overlays, portraits borders - every single aspect of the game that can be monetised in support of teams, should be.
THH was telling in that respect - its a smaller scene than HotS, and yet it has far more sponsored professional teams in both continents because in game purchases make it worthwhile. Blizzard could easily do the same.
1) Professional leagues, fixed in advance with dates and times for viewership.
2) substantial ingame stuff that can be bought to support your team, like SMITE does. Take the most played hero for each pro team, give them a skin and the profits go straight back to the org. Lets have team loading screens, overlays, portraits borders - every single aspect of the game that can be monetised in support of teams, should be.
THH was telling in that respect - its a smaller scene than HotS, and yet it has far more sponsored professional teams in both continents because in game purchases make it worthwhile. Blizzard could easily do the same.
Just had two games in a row exactly like that. Something in the air tonight or what? I was Cho and we could have easily finished the game, but the rest of my team ran PAST the core and tried to get kills next to the fountain. I wailed away on it, but they all wiped and did nothing at all to help... managed to get it to 18% before I died and we lost the game. So stupid.
Exactly. I regularly follow the LoL LCS, and I watch the DOTA2 International every year, but every time I try to actually play those games it never sticks.
Finally got to try Chromie tonight and she's a bloody terror. I'm amazed I haven't had more difficulty playing against her; because it seemed when I buffed her Q all the way down, the combination of piercing and echo talents meant I would get at least 2 kills every fight. Especially with the added range as well.
BreezyLimbo
Banned
Chromie actually requires skill to hit her shit with, it's so easy to miss
That she does. Milly fucking rekt as Chromie in a game earlier. I dunno if he has a screencap of the game or not, but it was like 10 or 11 kills, a crapton of damage, and 0 deaths.
. Then again he does great with most any mage doe, so no surprise.
I feel like even with her penchant for missing (and she does a lot), the Q is so frequent and the overall damage is so high that it won't take much to put her into the danger zone in so far as being seen as a "Nova-type" hero that is unfair or whatever. Def takes more skill to crush faces with her than the others though, no doubt.
I was tanking as ETC so he had it EZgameEZlyfe
I feel like even with her penchant for missing (and she does a lot), the Q is so frequent and the overall damage is so high that it won't take much to put her into the danger zone in so far as being seen as a "Nova-type" hero that is unfair or whatever. Def takes more skill to crush faces with her than the others though, no doubt.
Angry threads are already popping up on Reddit. If she has vision on you and you don't have it on her, DELETE KEY INC.
She's a better Nova.
It's far worse than them to be honest - she's Nova, not a Mage. I think she's fairly terribly designed to be frank, and am hoping that they look at her as part of the wider balance patch coming. Having a ranged assassin who can delete you with impunity from a screen away is not fun or good design.
Which was so, so stupid.
Familienoberhauptvogel
Banned
Chromie is gonna be a 4th or 5th pick for teams to be afraid of if their comp doesn't handle her already.
I'm not sure which was more fun between that and Chromie, tbh. KT was hella easier tho.
It at least gave KT a different playstyle
I was playing an all AI game last night as Medivh, and boy, the AI bots don't know how to deal with him. For one, allied AI simply will not ever take a portal. But the really funny thing was that I took poly-bomb and was able to keep it chaining until it was off cooldown again (40s)! The enemy AI clearly has nothing coded in how to deal with poly-bomb, and just stays grouped.
brickwalker0
Member
all the mages with the exception of Medivh feel like total bullshit tbh, but as people have said before in this thread, Blizzard has a knack for making mages stupidly strong in all their games.
Huh? Mages have, for long long periods of WoW, been crap and sub-par. In terms of D3 wizards again for long periods of time were the bottom character in grift rankings. Even in Warcraft 2 ogre-magi were so more powerful than human mages. Anyone saying blizzard has a thing for mages is just being silly.
Jaina is fine. Li-Ming is approaching fine. Kael needs work but as a concept is great. Chromie is junk but hopefully she gets adjusted in line with the support and healing stuff that has to be coming.
Yeah agree
Li ming feels weak atm
That anub buff rly bit her in the ass
Tbh there a lot of anti mage tech out there atm, but they kinda all happen to be good at protecting mages too lol
As a mage in WoW, praise be.
I suck at Jaina though and I really wish I didnt. Don't know why.
Shes rough to play atm, needs setup to be worth it. The main thing i want when i play her though is more auto attack dmg
Yes, tho that is also li ming's spot and li ming is usually better
Yes, tho that is also li ming's spot and li ming is usually better
Familienoberhauptvogel
Banned
I think on channel maps you could make a case for chromie over Li Ming. From lvl 13 onward it's fairly difficult to zone her far enough.
I think Jaina is good in terms of design but desperately needs something changed. She's the weakest in terms of defensive capabitlies, IMO. Comboing is sweet when you can pull it off, but her E is the biggest issue I think. I guess it's pretty cool that you can pop someone so up close, but you'll just get torn to shreds shortly after you do that.
E range increase or change it all together.
Shorten the CD on W since all these other mages have shorter CDs and do more damage? I'm not sure on that. How does Blizzard stack against Arcane Orb, Flamestrike and Dragons Breath? Or whatever it's called. You also gotta wait for two waves of it to hit.
Rambled a bit. Hopefully you guys get it, lol.
E range increase or change it all together.
Shorten the CD on W since all these other mages have shorter CDs and do more damage? I'm not sure on that. How does Blizzard stack against Arcane Orb, Flamestrike and Dragons Breath? Or whatever it's called. You also gotta wait for two waves of it to hit.
Rambled a bit. Hopefully you guys get it, lol.
Reducing cdr on stuff like w is tricky, i also think they are trying to get away from making mages own the entire game. I think itd be cool if they made her more suitable for meleeish ranges (cuz e will have you being there), like give her suitable defense stuff like you said, give her stuff to do while waiting on cooldowns (better q, better autos), like make her more proactive instead of waiting on burst cds.
Id also be for some slightly supportish shit with her like replacing a spell with frost armor or a passive where allies hit with her spells get some sort of frost armor, dont make all mages compete for best deeps
Id also be for some slightly supportish shit with her like replacing a spell with frost armor or a passive where allies hit with her spells get some sort of frost armor, dont make all mages compete for best deeps
jaundicejuice
Member
So many heroes hard counter Chromie. So many. By virtue of simply being in a match heroes like Zeratul and Nova force you to not pick a damage farming talent at 1. Tracer, Greymane, Butcher, Thrall and Xul can force your level 12 talent choice at match start. You almost always have to pick Bye Bye! over Reaching Through Time when those heroes are on the opposing team.
Some heroes--Anub--or heroes with the right talent choices--Nova--completely negate the safety of Bye Bye! because you either can't get away fast enough--Nova pinning shot followed by Precision Blast--or they can completely interrupt your channel so you can't get away and just die.
Smart players know to bait out your channels and quickly use the direction of Sand Blast to ferret you out. The number of matches where I can nuke from range with impunity are few and far between. But honestly those games of cat and mouse are half the fun of using the hero.
Those matches where you can nuke from range with impunity are glorious though. It's so satisfying landing her skillshots and nuking people from downtown. It's so much fun fucking with Murky by nuking his egg or nailing Aba behind a wall. If Chromie wasn't in HotS, I'd probably just be playing Overwatch non-stop instead.
Familienoberhauptvogel
Banned
Doesn't Jaina still have the highest burst of all mages?
Tracer is the only hard counter to chromie imo but there's a ton of soft counters.
I never go bye bye except in QM with like 2 or 3 soft counters that never allow to step out of base. The increased range makes you safer in most cases anyway, instead I sometimes go with the E talent at 7 over mobius loop if I don't need the waveclear.
Tracer is the only hard counter to chromie imo but there's a ton of soft counters.
I never go bye bye except in QM with like 2 or 3 soft counters that never allow to step out of base. The increased range makes you safer in most cases anyway, instead I sometimes go with the E talent at 7 over mobius loop if I don't need the waveclear.
Idk, I wasn't having many issues against most of the dive heroes last night. I'm around 2700 mmr after the squish. Map dependency was the biggest issue I was running into. Just can't take on every map like you can KT or Ming.
And I agree Brian. I'd like to see them move away from them all being burst, but they kinda put themselves in that position already and there would be so much crying if they changed em all. That's why I think Jaina has to be brought in line with the rest. Their CDs are shorter on their big spenders.
And I agree Brian. I'd like to see them move away from them all being burst, but they kinda put themselves in that position already and there would be so much crying if they changed em all. That's why I think Jaina has to be brought in line with the rest. Their CDs are shorter on their big spenders.
jaundicejuice
Member
I've had matches where it was pretty clear I was safe in picking RtT at 12 with how things were going and then the other team decided they had enough of my shit and tried to deathball me before every objective.
brickwalker0
Member
really seems like Chromie is another Greymane situation where (for whatever reason) shes absurdly strong and people maintain the belief shes terrible until some time passes by.
i just remember people saying Greymane was garbage in his first month or so despite tourney players getting amazing results with him. then nerfs came and hes still an extremely strong pick.
i just remember people saying Greymane was garbage in his first month or so despite tourney players getting amazing results with him. then nerfs came and hes still an extremely strong pick.
I can't see Worgen form remaining as strong as it is currently.
Chromie's super-powerful, but in a way that doesn't work well 5v5.
Familienoberhauptvogel
Banned
Your team could have made use of that.
IIRC Maledict fought pretty hard advocating for Greymane's viability, and didn't EU teams use him succesfully while NA pros scoffed at the idea (?), but the comparison isn't completely apt because the argument was that he was undertuned and he did receive some buffs shortly after release.
Naventic had no f'ing clue how to draft and protect him, even after weeks of Korea showing them how to do it.
Ppl like bige and tomster were picked up because greymane was important, after his q nerf a lot of ppl didnt see much to him because his main build was hit (this was before the changes hit), but that didnt really translate to pro play where greymane was still used pretty consistently. For teams like nvt, if korea plays it theyll always give it a shot
jaundicejuice
Member
She's really strong on fixed objective maps like Cursed Hollow or Towers of Doom where there's a clear focal point to target, and lots of fog to cast from but, yeah, she sort of puts your team at a disadvantage the way having an invis hero or Abathur sort of can.
They can, some do, but it's Quick Match.
They can, some do, but it's Quick Match.
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