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Heroes of the Storm |OT2| Imitation is the sincerest form of flattery

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brian!

Member
I just dont think blinds are very good againat illidan, but i do like lili double support (well i dislike it, but i think thats how you fit her into a comp)
 
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Alavard

Member
brian! said:
I just dont think blinds are very good againat illidan, but i do like lili double support (well i dislike it, but i think thats how you fit her into a comp)
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Going by hotslogs, Illidan's 3rd worst matchup hero is Lili (at 44%), and his 9th is Johanna (at 47.1%). This isn't competitive level, obviously, but still, blinds definitely hurt Illidan a lot.
 
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brian!

Member
Well the counter for blind is to not all-in (since his defensive and mobility spells arent effected by blind at all) so i guess i am kind of thinking about smarter players, i dunno if id necesarily attribute lili being third best against him to be largely blind-related though.

What is illidan's hl winrate anyway, anecdotally at least it doesnt sound like he has very high priority in hl
 
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brian!

Member
I am thinking about teamfights mainly though, itd make sense to kind of see it as maybe lili preventing pickoffs that illidan tends to get when ppl overextend and the blind dissuading from continuing or not getting the q cdr, like if she can stop a snowball or comeback this way its pretty valuable
 
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Alur

Member
This Equinox dude team hops like nobodies business. I don't even know why anyone wants to pick him up. It's like going to the dealership for a Benz and leaving with a Chevy Cruse. Sure, it's a dece car, but of all the options it's one of the lesser to be certain.
 
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Alur

Member
Dunk should. The game could use two dece analysts (that are full-time, anyway - Grubby doesn't count cause he's got other shit going on at times). Plus it'd be kind of funny if he eclipsed Dread, or Dread chokes him out of jobs.

Dread and Dunk should just do a show of their own like the League of Legends show (Prime Time League or something like that) that previews each week's matchups and results.
 
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Zackat

Member
kirblar said:
http://us.battle.net/heroes/en/forum/topic/20745655517 Support blog post is up.

I have a response for them re: the Tassadar problem. Should be able to write it out tonight.
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Zackat

Member
classifications were a mistake in the first place, I am sure they realize that now

Like Sonya is not really a tank, neither is Rexxar.
 
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brian!

Member
that medic grenade change they are thinking about sounds awesome, but it's something I'd like to see across the board, not just supports
in general a good support design should emphasize positioning and have them be important enough to be 1st/2nd focus fire targets, not cuz of dmg but cuz of swingy things they can do

at least one support should have a good initiation skill (thinking more like a cc and less like medivh portal), like when that support is picked it should be clear that this is what that support is being picked for
tbh mosh pit should be a support skill
 
Maximus.

Maximus.

Member
Copenap said:
To be fair, you being alive and 8-0 doesn't necessarily mean you did good. Your team probably shouldn't have engaged though.
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I am not saying I did good, I was just saying that I was playing my role appropriately and hate when teammates blame others for no reason. Our team should not have engaged.

scoobs said:
What's wrong with specialists? Quite a few are considered top tier heroes.
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There is nothing wrong with specialists. It is more so they are last in the draft, our team may need a healer or something else and they will not speak, change their pick or anything and then proceed to not work with the team/objective/etc. I enjoy playing many specialists and always welcome them on the team, when it makes sense.

Maledict said:
As if by magic, at the mention of Greymane I am summoned. Admittedly late, but who cares.

When he first came out he wasn't very good, and no-one really made much progress with him. Wolf form was very weak due to the vulnerability, and cocktail was...cocktail. He got buffed not that much later, and suddenly exploded in Europe and Korea. People figured out the best build with cocktails, and he became a really powerful ranged assassin with an execute. Cocktail allowed you some amazing poke damage, and then when necessary you could just delete someone. He was a superb ranged based assassin, and fitted in any team as a ranged assassin. This is when NA was going "huh? On the podcasts and describing him as a jack of all trades, whilst Europe was going ham on him because of his ability to do great ranged damage and delete people. NA hadn't figured out that whilst he is very vulnerable in wolf form, if you just go cocktails and only use wolf form when you can guarantee the kill he is an absolute monster and a very viable backline threat.

The nerfs to Greymane changed that - without the cocktail talents, he simply doesn't have the poke anymore. Without the poke, he couldn't fit into the standard range slot at all, so usage heavily dropped off to the point where he wasn't considered viable.

What Korea then figured out was that if you go all in on supporting him (Uther, Tyrael etc), his wolf form auto attack damage is so ridiculously high that he can carry a team regardless of his lack of defences. The changes to executioner pushed him over the edge - he hits for over 600 damage a swing, at 1.5 swings a second, which is easily the highest auto attack damage in the game. That's why he has come back so strong.

But it's a completely different way of playing him, and a different team build, than he had originally when I was raving about him. He's not a standard ranged assassin anymore, he *has* to be supported heavily to be effective. But Christ is he strong - I would not at all be surprised if they removed executioner from him or gave him a weaker version.
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Greymane is awesome and with the right support and strategy, he can dominate in team fights. I do laugh when people talk about "low" overall hero damage with him, since in my experience he is best utilized to poke and then jump in when the other team have low health or leave someone squishy open.
 
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Alur

Member
They are gonna have to institute some kind of queue dodge protection in unranked. Like half the games get dodged.

It's an epidemic.
 
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Maledict

Member
Surely the "Minions of hell grow stronger" is something that would only apply when a new player character arrives? Doesn't that indicate another D2 player class?

EDIT: The portal looks to lead to Westmarch. Could it be the Horadrim guy from the Diablo 3 expansion? Wouldn't make sense to be Auriel with that background to the portal.
 
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Ketch

Member
That support blog though.


I feel like they still don't actually see the issue with healing at all. Like, they don't want to change support play style, and their solution idea is to reduce healing and increase health pools...... When I feel like they just admitted support play style is the issue (back liners with little interaction with the enemy team) and had a neat solution for medic. I think the solution is to reduce the healing but increase support utility dramatically.


Most fun support abilities go: lunar flare, force wall, divine hurricane, water dragon, feral lunge, 11 sided strike. (I.e. Abilities that interact with the enemy)


I like Brian's idea of mosh pit being a support ability, in other mobas many of the tank heroes would just be played as supports.

I think in order to "fix" "healers" They need to add more utility to supports and make healing less important so that supports can be free to #makeplays without being afraid to throw the game.
 
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kirblar

Member
They want 1 healer to be standard. To do that, the healing needs to be strong.

The problem is that not all characters with healing should be full-out healers.
 
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jaundicejuice

Member
Playing KT now is pretty un-fun with Tracer in the game, especially in disorganised QM. Which I guess is only fair considering how un-fun it's been to play against KT for so long.

Part of the problem with supports and their design in HotS is the lack of items. If Medivh were a Dota support, you would get an item like Mekanism to supplement his lack of healing, but that isn't a possibility in HotS. They're left with just designing every support to be a healer to some degree, through direct abilities or talent selection, or classifying them as a specialist or tank. I mean ETC is kind of the Tidehunter of HotS with his AoE stun.
 
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Alur

Member
yo brian I see you playing dat competitive overwatch but never trying ranked in hots. dbro is sad af about this treatment after all this time.

jaundicejuice said:
Playing KT now is pretty un-fun with Tracer in the game, especially in disorganised QM. Which I guess is only fair considering how un-fun it's been to play against KT for so long.
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