BreezyLimbo
Banned
Yeah but each independent meteor deals more damage than his fear does. So it's actually freaking strong.
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Heroes of the Storm |OT2| Imitation is the sincerest form of flattery
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Yeah but each independent meteor deals more damage than his fear does. So it's actually freaking strong.
BreezyLimbo
Banned
Oh you sweet summer child
I was wondering WTF was up with his back spikes. Figured that must've happened after I quit WoW or something.
we'll see if it is any good then, but from that large of an area idk. Seems like a well placed fear to isolate an enemy hero would be better for most team fighting scenarios I can think of. Does it do siege damage as well? that could be pretty interesting.
How far is the range on the fear?
demonic corruption basically. just like illidan has horns and wings, Gul'dan has spikes and claws.
jaundicejuice
Member
The AoE ult is good for pushing behind an objective. Corruption is kind of stupidly good for siege damage.
Also it's no fun playing as Hammer against a Gul'Dan.
Also it's no fun playing as Hammer against a Gul'Dan.
Me and proto are on Dunktrain's stream about to get rekt by him and Glaurung and their 5 stack.
https://www.twitch.tv/dunktrain
https://www.twitch.tv/dunktrain
BreezyLimbo
Banned
no you're wrong
I'm going to list out the reasons why
1.Meteors are cool
2.Fire is cool
3.Things blowing up is also cool
4.Fear is stupid
5.Fear will probably have a 300 second cooldown
Familienoberhauptvogel
Banned
rekt! Were you Qruul?
Bakery is taking issues with Gul'dan's trait making his spells too expensive. He's basically arguing the hero would be barely different with mana regen but lower mana costs, making his trait a gimmick. Steve chimed in and in the process pretty much confirmed that that's what it is.
Dunktrain also thinks Jaina is crap. Don't think he's played her yet though.
Dr. Buni
Member
Auriel stuff: https://www.reddit.com/r/heroesofthestorm/comments/4rekmw/very_few_auriels_infos_from_ptr_files/
So she has:
Angelic Flight, I assume it is her trait (something like Mercy's Guardian Angel in Overwatch)
Angelic Sweep which was shown in the video
Bestow Hope might be a buff of sorts? I don't think it is the stun shown in the video
Ray of Heaven which I assume to be her heal
Resurrect is her first heroic and Ribbon Cocoon is her second. The second could be a variation of Anub'arak's Cocoon? Regardless I wonder if it can compete with a resurrect.
So she has:
Angelic Flight, I assume it is her trait (something like Mercy's Guardian Angel in Overwatch)
Angelic Sweep which was shown in the video
Bestow Hope might be a buff of sorts? I don't think it is the stun shown in the video
Ray of Heaven which I assume to be her heal
Resurrect is her first heroic and Ribbon Cocoon is her second. The second could be a variation of Anub'arak's Cocoon? Regardless I wonder if it can compete with a resurrect.
Familienoberhauptvogel
Banned
People hated bribewing in competitive. Not sure split push meta is something to look forward to.
BreezyLimbo
Banned
Yup.
Grabbing the talent that heals you like 600 for killing a minion and drain heal, then it makes sense why he has life tap and why he has no mana regen, it's to gate his own sustain.
I liked it. Pros were being cry babies about it back then. While it was dumb to have it centered around the promote talent, it made the drafts and general game strategy much more interesting in my opinion. If it adds another separate yet viable strategy to the meta the game will be better for it, even though I'm sure people are gonna whine about how it's op for awhile until they learn how to play against it.
It's the kind of change that could literally change everything about the game, which is exciting.
I feel like this is good for my winrate, bad for the game.
They weren't. It was awful and uninteractive.
Familienoberhauptvogel
Banned
Bribewing was utter cancer. I had like an 80% winrate with her before they nerfed her and that as a noob. The issue is if split pushing is possible as a cheese strat that's fine but if split pushing is the best strat then pros are not only forced to play against it but to play it themselves.
Gul'dan's sustain (both his health/mana and his damage) is really good. He's a bit Nazeebo like with his damage (tick-ticking away) except if you take the Q talent at 13 or 16, I forget which, where it stacks. Then it hits pretty good.
Only because people refused to interact with it.
Even in that short time counter strategies were still developed, and it added a layer to the draft/game that wasn't there before. The biggest issue about it back then was that it came from the promote talent which made it really OP for specific heroes and wholly unavailable to others.
You couldn't interact with it.
That was why it sucked. It had not counterplay other than running to kill the stupid high powered catapult steamrolling the lane.
Gul'dan's level 1 talents are kinda shitty IMO. Like it's basically pick the range on Drain Life...or
A) buff corruption, which is kinda shitty IMO as it's like Cho'Gall's orbs but on a long CD so that seems kinda silly
B) take the Q buff, which requires 40 hits (doable easily by 20 if not way sooner) but only adds 10% radius but not range...not even sure how this is a thing
C) take the mana globe talent...when you already have no mana issues
Being able to safely heal yourself doe? Dat shit priceless. I'm sure I'll end up wrong and someone will figure out one of them is better, but I just can't see the use of any of them as currently constructed.
A) buff corruption, which is kinda shitty IMO as it's like Cho'Gall's orbs but on a long CD so that seems kinda silly
B) take the Q buff, which requires 40 hits (doable easily by 20 if not way sooner) but only adds 10% radius but not range...not even sure how this is a thing
C) take the mana globe talent...when you already have no mana issues
Being able to safely heal yourself doe? Dat shit priceless. I'm sure I'll end up wrong and someone will figure out one of them is better, but I just can't see the use of any of them as currently constructed.
Just to follow up on Azmodan - whilst it's great he now has a solo friendly dunk build, I think moving March of Sin to 7 really, really hurts that build. It means his laser is always useless in team fights really, which is a damn shame.
Laser build itself seems silly. The extra range at level 1 combined with early March allows you to just murder folks and if they dont have a stun they just die... Still bad though!
Laser build itself seems silly. The extra range at level 1 combined with early March allows you to just murder folks and if they dont have a stun they just die... Still bad though!
Except that pro teams were drafting against it and winning against it by the time promote was changed. And now since there's more heroes, hopefully the strategy/counter strategy will be better balanced and more explored.
This line of thinking doesn't make sense to me because ideally there isn't a "best strat" there are just different strats with different strengths and weaknesses. But since forever team fight / death balling has been exactly what you described: the best start that must be used. I am personally very happy that they are once again trying to make other strategies viable, hopefully it works out better then it did last time, which it should because of how its implemented in the game itself rather then a specific hero or talent.
Lazer Build was always an anti-Illidan thing, right?.
You get punished way harder for leaving lanes open now. Grubby sees this as developers trying to make Laynors less shitty to have on your team.
"It" wasn't a strategy. It was literally just pick/banning the supports who had the talent and got the annoying ability for free.
You get punished way harder for leaving lanes open now. Grubby sees this as developers trying to make Laynors less shitty to have on your team.
I'm an expert
Formerly worldrevolution. The only reason I am nice to anyone else is to avoid being banned.
Wait does the legion ce not have any hots items?
Familienoberhauptvogel
Banned
Fel charger
there are plenty cheese strats in the game, teams usually make it a point to prepare a cheese strat for a particular team. mYi tried one against MVP for instance. Split pushing being viable is one thing but it should never come to a bribewing situation again.
a mount
I'm an expert
Formerly worldrevolution. The only reason I am nice to anyone else is to avoid being banned.
Oh i thought the charger was for wow..or is it both..either way hmm
ok long patch notes thoughts:
general:
hope performance stuff is good across the board
making wells 2 minutes is interesting cuz a lot of objectives use that timer
orb change lets dominant laners be more dominant, weird change
I like the minion change, but mainly because I'm hoping lane manipulation will be more important and make ppl play better. anything that goes away from "group up forever" is a plus in my book. catapult change is interesting, same idea, make a focus on lanes and merc timing important throughout the game.
merc camp getting cdr w/ bribe is interesting, heroes like viking basically always take bribe so yeah
executioner change is nice, was too strong before, dunno about now
good relentless change too, iz bad talent
Heroes:
gall: whatever
greymane: marked for kill change is really interesting, but that range nerf is killer. don't think he's changed much.
jaina: not really the changes I'd want to see. frost armor to 4 is a pretty good change. it's a buff I guess though, 3 waves is pretty strong and kind of artificially decreases her cd for w. give her more aa dmg pls!
kael: good e nerf + I like them upping roil with it. decent lvl 7 nerf. these are good kinds of nerfs to kael, and kael already doesnt deserve the status he has in drafts
as instant ban/pick so it'll be interesting to see how he turns out.
kerrigan: good siph change (assuming here that they mean kill the same way you need to "kill" for a q reset, meaning you have a shitload of wiggle room). substantial health buff, but all in all I'd call it a nerf to kerrigan w/ the siph change, but I also don't know her other builds so
lunara: buff to a bunch of talents ppl dont use and prob wont use
abby: vile nest duration nerf the only thing I'm looking at here, iz nice. assualt strain got a beefy buff. I don't think anyone plays abathur for his supporting and I don't think any of the support things that got touched here are the best picks.
azmo: wow sieging wrath change is prtty big. like they are making you choose between poking heroes and clearing waves. I think the latter is better by far, but iunno that's a lot of free dmg they added to sieging wrath. gluttony got randomly buffed. oh they changed his lvl 7 q talent..., which is fine I guess since they moved march of sin there. azmo is one of those chromie heroes that can get out of hand through small buffs really quick.
gazlowe: whatever, it's good that d finally doesnt dismount you
xul: whatever, I guess it's good that he doesnt hard counter malf at lvl 20? who cares
zag: hmmmmmmmmmmm. I like the single shooting for banelings, but you cant kill them anymore? wadafa. couple that w/ the nydus and creep spread changes and it really is like they are encouraging you to be fucking annoying shooting invulnerable bombs at stuff and running away. like pls no. interesting changes here, but towards a type of zagara I don't really like.
bw: phase shield has to be nerfed and compensated to make it not must take, but again I don't like the way this is being done, they take away from things that make her unique like the tass z shield and outplays w/ her blink heal and give her passive more numbers, cmon. not really a balance gripe, just a personal one
munk: interesting, wish they gave something similar to the other talents in that tier. dont necessarily think this makes insight pickable, 100 seems kinda a lot in my head, but maybe it isn't.
uther: lol and divine shield/storm gets less cd, full circle. the new talents are pretty interesting, can see uther becoming a pseudo-tank w/ blessed champion, beacon of light, wave of light, righteous d, and blizz is smart and left cleanse unchallenged. not a bad change unless it ends up that the new talents are too overtuned and stuff like shrink ray or protective shield dont give a good reward in comparison even if you are skillful w/ them. then itd just be a change a la yeah playing a good uther is hard so we made him easy for you.
arthas: w/e
chen: w/e
cho: nice q buff
dehaka: pretty decent buffs, good lvl 20 z nerf
leo: only relevant thing here is lingering apparition buff, which gives you 2+ seconds on e, which is huge.
mura: NO LONGER GRANTS UNSTOPPABLE ON LEAP, GOODNIGHT MURADIN. literally changed to make players who dont use e properly to not feel like complete doofuses when they e into a group of ppl, gj blizzard.
sonya: mystic spear nerf hurts, in general another random talent tweaking in hopes of giving other talents a chance which won't happen.
stitches: I hope they mean that the toggle is on the other heroes and not stitches. I like that helping hand is tacked on in theory, but it's kind of a dangerous change if other heroes can't opt out for obvious reasons.
tyrael: random buff to trait. nice purge evil buff, wasnt necesary but i'll take it. no battle momentum hurts, but he is actually pretty decent as an all-in lets go character. they shoulda tweaked his base cds tho. in the end, his must-take talents didnt get touched besides battle momentum, so that's still the build. the idea that they removed battle momentum to make space for other cd talents and then neglected to add any of those in is classik blizz
tru
general:
hope performance stuff is good across the board
making wells 2 minutes is interesting cuz a lot of objectives use that timer
orb change lets dominant laners be more dominant, weird change
I like the minion change, but mainly because I'm hoping lane manipulation will be more important and make ppl play better. anything that goes away from "group up forever" is a plus in my book. catapult change is interesting, same idea, make a focus on lanes and merc timing important throughout the game.
merc camp getting cdr w/ bribe is interesting, heroes like viking basically always take bribe so yeah
executioner change is nice, was too strong before, dunno about now
good relentless change too, iz bad talent
Heroes:
gall: whatever
greymane: marked for kill change is really interesting, but that range nerf is killer. don't think he's changed much.
jaina: not really the changes I'd want to see. frost armor to 4 is a pretty good change. it's a buff I guess though, 3 waves is pretty strong and kind of artificially decreases her cd for w. give her more aa dmg pls!
kael: good e nerf + I like them upping roil with it. decent lvl 7 nerf. these are good kinds of nerfs to kael, and kael already doesnt deserve the status he has in drafts
as instant ban/pick so it'll be interesting to see how he turns out.
kerrigan: good siph change (assuming here that they mean kill the same way you need to "kill" for a q reset, meaning you have a shitload of wiggle room). substantial health buff, but all in all I'd call it a nerf to kerrigan w/ the siph change, but I also don't know her other builds so
lunara: buff to a bunch of talents ppl dont use and prob wont use
abby: vile nest duration nerf the only thing I'm looking at here, iz nice. assualt strain got a beefy buff. I don't think anyone plays abathur for his supporting and I don't think any of the support things that got touched here are the best picks.
azmo: wow sieging wrath change is prtty big. like they are making you choose between poking heroes and clearing waves. I think the latter is better by far, but iunno that's a lot of free dmg they added to sieging wrath. gluttony got randomly buffed. oh they changed his lvl 7 q talent..., which is fine I guess since they moved march of sin there. azmo is one of those chromie heroes that can get out of hand through small buffs really quick.
gazlowe: whatever, it's good that d finally doesnt dismount you
xul: whatever, I guess it's good that he doesnt hard counter malf at lvl 20? who cares
zag: hmmmmmmmmmmm. I like the single shooting for banelings, but you cant kill them anymore? wadafa. couple that w/ the nydus and creep spread changes and it really is like they are encouraging you to be fucking annoying shooting invulnerable bombs at stuff and running away. like pls no. interesting changes here, but towards a type of zagara I don't really like.
bw: phase shield has to be nerfed and compensated to make it not must take, but again I don't like the way this is being done, they take away from things that make her unique like the tass z shield and outplays w/ her blink heal and give her passive more numbers, cmon. not really a balance gripe, just a personal one
munk: interesting, wish they gave something similar to the other talents in that tier. dont necessarily think this makes insight pickable, 100 seems kinda a lot in my head, but maybe it isn't.
uther: lol and divine shield/storm gets less cd, full circle. the new talents are pretty interesting, can see uther becoming a pseudo-tank w/ blessed champion, beacon of light, wave of light, righteous d, and blizz is smart and left cleanse unchallenged. not a bad change unless it ends up that the new talents are too overtuned and stuff like shrink ray or protective shield dont give a good reward in comparison even if you are skillful w/ them. then itd just be a change a la yeah playing a good uther is hard so we made him easy for you.
arthas: w/e
chen: w/e
cho: nice q buff
dehaka: pretty decent buffs, good lvl 20 z nerf
leo: only relevant thing here is lingering apparition buff, which gives you 2+ seconds on e, which is huge.
mura: NO LONGER GRANTS UNSTOPPABLE ON LEAP, GOODNIGHT MURADIN. literally changed to make players who dont use e properly to not feel like complete doofuses when they e into a group of ppl, gj blizzard.
sonya: mystic spear nerf hurts, in general another random talent tweaking in hopes of giving other talents a chance which won't happen.
stitches: I hope they mean that the toggle is on the other heroes and not stitches. I like that helping hand is tacked on in theory, but it's kind of a dangerous change if other heroes can't opt out for obvious reasons.
tyrael: random buff to trait. nice purge evil buff, wasnt necesary but i'll take it. no battle momentum hurts, but he is actually pretty decent as an all-in lets go character. they shoulda tweaked his base cds tho. in the end, his must-take talents didnt get touched besides battle momentum, so that's still the build. the idea that they removed battle momentum to make space for other cd talents and then neglected to add any of those in is classik blizz
tru
I think I just worded my response wrong, I understand what a cheese strat is, and I think they're totally fine as is. However, you wouldn't call say a "pick off comp" a cheese strat though, and in my opinion a split push should be on that level of viability.
I agree that BW and tassadar were bullshit OP due to promote 100%. But that's was an issue with those heroes and that talent, that doesn't mean that splitpushing is bad for the game. All I'm saying is that I think it would be great if split pushing became a viable strategy.
as a spectator I really hope it ends up as more of a "look nvt put two good stallers on the trubute while pushing other lanes, dread this is a strategy that would not have worked out before this patch (and both teams have to play well here)" vs. "oh my god look how fast xul cleared that wave, he's broken and this lane is doomed"
Yes exactly.
Like more then just having good wave clear so they can do the solo lane, it could potentially change a lot of how the game is played and how drafts go.
teamfight has been so dominat since the beginning that I think it would add a whole nother level to the thought process of "how can we win from here" and what makes specific heroes good or bad.
TheSadRanger
Banned
I hate that they nerfed my mutalisk charges :/
Should shake shit up a lot.
Who are the in-meta heroes that these changes effect the most? ETC and muradin? Although etc makes up for it with stage dive maybe? Maybe we'll see a return of Leo? Definetly more Johanna maybe Dehaka, stitches play? Like maybe it moves support tier lists around a bit too with malf/bw coming up and uther monk tyrande going down a little?
What in meta assassins have the worst wave clear? li Ming, thrall?
What out of meta heroes have the best wave clear? Jaina, azmodan, zeebo?
Obviously huge buff to global heroes (abathur) and nerf to immobal heroes (lunara, hammer).
There will really be zero point in drafting any assassin that lack wave clear, if these changes go through as is. I don't think the minion changes are too bad, but catapult changes are pretty significant now that they don't lose lock. Typically you could see when you needed to respond to a push, now it's a given if there's more than one.
You draft an assassin with zero wave clear, you better make sure you're getting at least 3 others (not counting support since they typically are shit at clearing). That is already an issue in live, now they're pushing it even further.
I really hope it's not one of those cases of overreacting seeing notes, but it's really triggering me.
Why artificially try and shorten game lengths that are already short? GoT was the only map that needed to be touched in that regard.
You draft an assassin with zero wave clear, you better make sure you're getting at least 3 others (not counting support since they typically are shit at clearing). That is already an issue in live, now they're pushing it even further.
I really hope it's not one of those cases of overreacting seeing notes, but it's really triggering me.
Why artificially try and shorten game lengths that are already short? GoT was the only map that needed to be touched in that regard.
BreezyLimbo
Banned
I think you guys are overblowing the changes too much. This change only affects strategies revolving around sitting in a bush soaking exp, maybe hitting one or two minions and then going back hiding in a bush waiting for a gank.
The reason ehy its a huge buff to specialists, is because they spend half the game sitting around pushing a lane against another specialist.
Simply put, people are going to have to remove the expectations that they have to constantly be roaming/ganking. One lane by itself isnt going to destroy your whole town, but if you let someone push, you should be punished for it. Thats all this change is. No more roaming around while a specialist pushes a lane, killing somene with a gank, and then being able to get back in lane to stop a lane push with little to no consequnce.
The reason ehy its a huge buff to specialists, is because they spend half the game sitting around pushing a lane against another specialist.
Simply put, people are going to have to remove the expectations that they have to constantly be roaming/ganking. One lane by itself isnt going to destroy your whole town, but if you let someone push, you should be punished for it. Thats all this change is. No more roaming around while a specialist pushes a lane, killing somene with a gank, and then being able to get back in lane to stop a lane push with little to no consequnce.
jaundicejuice
Member
HotS is already a relatively fast-paced MOBA, with average matches bouncing between 20-30 minutes depending on the map. This change to minion damage for structures, which already feel incredibly weak compared to other MOBAs, will probably make more matches on par with Haunted Mines, so 20 or less. With Haunted Mines we had Sylvanas running train on the map, she would fucking break it. One team would simply gain an advantage and snowball. They'd just steam roll the other in less than 20 mins. Now that's potentially every map with Sylvanas, Xul, Azmodan, Zagara, Abathur and The Lost Vikings. Even annoying shit like Hammer's level 20 BFG got stealth buffed by this.
This patch will change things up, that's for sure, but I don't think it will be for the better. Quick Match is going to be an even bigger gongshow than it normally is.
This patch will change things up, that's for sure, but I don't think it will be for the better. Quick Match is going to be an even bigger gongshow than it normally is.
jaundicejuice
Member
I wish they would redesign Nova so she was more like Clinkz or Nyx (stealth you can activate for a brief period of time to engage a gank) rather than Riki (perma-invis until you AA or use an ability) and change her ability set so she isn't fucking useless for 90% of the time.
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