I don't understand how that's a solution - it just returns the time to kill buildings by minions back to what it was, but makes it slower for when players are involved. I thought the entire point of the change was to make minions more useful and to make pushed lanes more deadly? They don't seem to care about the early game tower rush issue.
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- Thread starter Nirolak
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I don't understand how that's a solution - it just returns the time to kill buildings by minions back to what it was, but makes it slower for when players are involved. I thought the entire point of the change was to make minions more useful and to make pushed lanes more deadly? They don't seem to care about the early game tower rush issue.
You increase minion damage by 200%. You don't increase building HP by 200%, you do a lesser amount.
The net effect is that It increases the damage of minions relative to heroes, increasing their value while not putting us into "left lane for one wave, fort's dead."
It also reduces the power of late game team fights for a team that's behind, because it'll take them longer to kill a keep if the lane's not pushed out. This isn't a bad thing.
Oh dang I had no clue either. Wasn't really home anyway, but I didn't even know anything was going on. Sounds like Crescendo played for the first time?
scoobs
Member
Fuck no
I honestly don't see the problem right now - certainly nothing I've seen on test makes me think it's so bad it needs an emergency change before it goes live. I think Zagara has issues full stop (and am proud of being ahead of the curve on that one in predicting her new builds to be broken) but I'm not convinced there's a fundamental issue with the base game with these minion changes. Possibly because I've played bad opponents or something, or because I play Azmodan who is the weakest of the 'Big Four' pushers.
It really depends on how much ppl can feasibly get away with. If you look at how it works in other mobas, the importance of lane management hinges on how large the maps are and the types of costs needed to address it. In an ideal situation you can identify these and choose a variety of strategies (rush down a different lane, assign a better split pusher, gank an overextension, etc.) In heroes it is relatively easy to follow what heroes are where and easy to be safe w/ common sense map awareness; in particular the best pushers are all equipped with escape spells on top of mounts and waveclear things that dont put them in danger. So if it ever occurs that sylv just pushes in by herself and the minion changes make it mandatory to be addressed (vs. say ignoring her and forcing another lane), we really cant have an environment where someone goes to her lane and she just peaces out and goes to another and it becomes a cycle. I dunno if the minion changes are actually this. But like if this becomes the case -> split pushers need to be in meaningful danger when overextending
Split pushing wont ever become a thing on certain maps tho, which makes the whole thing difficult to balance
Split pushing wont ever become a thing on certain maps tho, which makes the whole thing difficult to balance
Wonder if they'd go for Leave Kong Alone?
Familienoberhauptvogel
Banned
Dreadnaught is sitting out Valencia.
Dunk and Kayoh getting into casting at the same time might be a bit much. There's not that many spots for the limited amount of LAN events.
Loved the inside Dunk brought to the C9 side of Crescendo, like why Caff hates Johanna, no matter how wrong Caff is.
Dunk and Kayoh getting into casting at the same time might be a bit much. There's not that many spots for the limited amount of LAN events.
Loved the inside Dunk brought to the C9 side of Crescendo, like why Caff hates Johanna, no matter how wrong Caff is.
Take my opinion w/ a grain of salt since i dont really play much
I guess in general youd want 2-3 for each role?
Pre-patch
Warrior: seems fine, maybe add sonya or etc
Ass: feel like having a greymane is valuable, illidan/kael should be in there if you get stuck w/ first/second pick but i actually dont think it's heinous to give them up. Falstad is really good
Supp: rehgar, id say tass but im guessing hl is kinda hit or miss with this
Spec: sylv (can work as ranged dmg too), xul if you want to hold him as a pocket pick for things like infernal or spiders
Post-patch is like 8-ball future is unclear
I wouldn't expect to see them bringing him in for most EU regionals.
Familienoberhauptvogel
Banned
They did for every single one since he started casting didn't they, he's been traveling most of the last couple months, and they are flying in JHow and Wolf.
The last one was Worlds tho. Gilly and Dread both got brought out for that. You're not going to make that same effort for regionals- it just doesn't make sense.
Jake's casting the off-stream matches (presumably via tape delay as they finish), which is cool.
Familienoberhauptvogel
Banned
Dread was at every single EU regional. Katowice, Leicester and Tours.
I preferred Kaeyoh's casting over Dunktrain's, but they are both fine. Hopefully at least one of em gets a shot at the next LAN. I'd wager it has something to do with fan reaction/desire, so on that front Dunktrain has the leg up due to his team being the former world champs + THH.
That avatar though. Damn.
Haha, that dude used to be one of the bigger streamers in Alpha. Then he disappeared, and now when he streams no one watches. I suppose that may be why.
He's been brought in for like all of them, though.
That avatar though. Damn.
Haha, that dude used to be one of the bigger streamers in Alpha. Then he disappeared, and now when he streams no one watches. I suppose that may be why.
He's been brought in for like all of them, though.
TheSadRanger
Banned
I think BW should be added in there as well, phase shift can be invaluable in maps where you need cap multiple obj at once like dragon shire, sky temple, or towers of doom.
Plus polymorph is damn good, a good brightwing can completely turn a game around imo more so than other healers.
scoobs
Member
Heroes I think you really should be able to play if you want to climb (diamond or better) in Hero League:
Warrior: Anub, Muradin, ETC, Johanna, Sonya
Ass: Li-Ming, KT, Falstad, Thrall, Greymane
Support: Rehgar, Kharazim, Tassadar
Specialist: Xul, Zagara, Sylvanas
Its 16.. but whatever, these are the best heroes and are always good picks.
scoobs
Member
Familienoberhauptvogel
Banned
the best 2 weeks the game ever had, Blizz just couldn't let it last.
yeah I've had people leave the game if the first ban isn't KT now lol
TheSadRanger
Banned
I'm stuck in bronze league and I can't get out 
It's fucking impossible ;_;
It's fucking impossible ;_;
Play team league. Enjoy macro mattering.I'm stuck in bronze league and I can't get out
It's fucking impossible ;_;
He's right. Team league is particularly good if you "know" the game even though you are stuck in a lower MMR where others don't so much.
/join aram /join amovetv /join frogpants and if you're feeling really brave (or desperate) /join reddit. Ask for and look for team league groups who want to farm the mount. Enjoy playing the game the way it was meant to be played.
You don't need comms, and 99% of the time there is no salt. We told people up front there would be no salt when we made our groups last season, and if they got salty we just kicked em. Hundreds of thousands of players, we can find someone else who may not be as good, but at least they play with the team y'know.
/join aram /join amovetv /join frogpants and if you're feeling really brave (or desperate) /join reddit. Ask for and look for team league groups who want to farm the mount. Enjoy playing the game the way it was meant to be played.
You don't need comms, and 99% of the time there is no salt. We told people up front there would be no salt when we made our groups last season, and if they got salty we just kicked em. Hundreds of thousands of players, we can find someone else who may not be as good, but at least they play with the team y'know.
Familienoberhauptvogel
Banned
Used to be like that but now they changed it to "doesn't fit any of the other roles" with Medivh.
Most of the specialist excel at their own thing. Sylvanas provides huge value on maps where the objective pushes, Xul can clear 2 lanes efficiently by himself on small maps and apply insane pressure when left alone, vikings excel on big maps and specifically ToD and Garden of Terror, Zag is really just all around solid if not amazing and will win any lane 1v1 also provides vision,...
Dunno why Nazeebo is a specialist I guess the Zombie wall can soak tower shots.
Most of the specialist excel at their own thing. Sylvanas provides huge value on maps where the objective pushes, Xul can clear 2 lanes efficiently by himself on small maps and apply insane pressure when left alone, vikings excel on big maps and specifically ToD and Garden of Terror, Zag is really just all around solid if not amazing and will win any lane 1v1 also provides vision,...
Dunno why Nazeebo is a specialist I guess the Zombie wall can soak tower shots.
He's a specialist because he's a relic of the old character design. Specialist used to include (very, very early on) summoner. They abandoned that ages ago but he has retained that classification for some reason. He's just a ranged sustained dps assassin with a summon heroic.
He's okay in lane, but he's definitely not in the same league as the big four in terms of pushing or laning. TBH I think he still needs another pass at his talent tree / I know he got reworked a while back, but it still feels like it could go much further to bring him inline with modern character design.
Sothis Krieg
Member
Finished my HL placements Matches and I'm Diamond 3... i don't know if i want to climb.
My buddies are all gold or silver so it will be unranked draft i suppose.
My buddies are all gold or silver so it will be unranked draft i suppose.
scoobs
Member
Agreed. His level 1/4/7 talent choices are an embarrassment.
Familienoberhauptvogel
Banned
Ah that was before my time, does he still have the last hitting stuff?
Yes - both his trait and his mandatory level 1 talent trigger off minions dying whilst his DoT is on them. It's not completely last hitting as you have a 4 second window, but it's still extremely out of kilter compared to what else exists in the game.
It's also an incredibly dull trait that I think desperately needs reworking. It doesn't have anything at all to do with the Diablo 3 witch doctor, is mostly unsupported by talents, and is so minimal it doesn't feature into your play style at all.
Compared to say Li-Ming or Johanna the witch doctor is really lacking, both mechanically and thematically. He has none of the big Witch Doctor abilities from D3, his talent choices don't reflect th D3 witch doctor much either, and mechanically he's a bit of a mess.
scoobs
Member
And yet he's my second most played hero and a personal favorite. Stacking is fun, I enjoy having 4k health
I enjoy him myself - something about the weird old man shouts and spiders everywhere... ;-). Just in terms of character design, he could be vastly better than he is / the new Zagara rework is what I'm thinking of. They took a character who was very popular and very strong and were Unafraid of completely rebuilding her from the ground up to be more thematically and mechanically better.
This day is going by so slowly at work.
I usually skip the new hero for at least the first week to avoid crazy queue times (at least when I play solo), but tonight I plan on playing Gul'Dan all night, queues be damned. I just really love his playstyle. Still debating on whether I'm going to get the Balespider skin though. Some parts look great, like the shaking spider-leg spines, but I'm still not overall sold on it.
I usually skip the new hero for at least the first week to avoid crazy queue times (at least when I play solo), but tonight I plan on playing Gul'Dan all night, queues be damned. I just really love his playstyle. Still debating on whether I'm going to get the Balespider skin though. Some parts look great, like the shaking spider-leg spines, but I'm still not overall sold on it.
I used to buy premium skins all the time. I feel like I haven't been compelled to in a while like I did in the past. I am a willing spender too, I love skins and these characters. Auriel bundle gonna be the first one I get in months.
Johanna skin still a maybe, probably gonna wait for a sale on that one.
I think I'm going to avoid getting Auriel's skin bundle. The demonic skin is okay, but I really like her Master skin from what I've seen, and don't think I'd ever go back once I mastered her. Although, depending on the voice difference between the Demonic and regular, I could change my mind. Especially if they recorded some separate lines and not just used a voice filter this time.
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