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Heroes of the Storm |OT2| Imitation is the sincerest form of flattery

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Alur

Member
And Gul'dans level 1 and 16 corruption talents are the source of all of his power btw. Or at least that is the only way i ever have success with him. His Q is straight garbage for anything but clearing minion waves and his W should be reserved for sealing kills and trying to stay alive (even though you will always die)

If you aren't getting value out of his Q in a team fight, I dunno man. The Q talent at 16 ramps him up considerably, the Q in general is ridiculously easy to hit and he can still remain relatively safe, and the talent itself ramps up quickly once you have it. It's not a huge feat to hit two or three people with it every few seconds, on top of the one person you hit with the Q in between to keep it stacking. It tacks on a sizable amount of damage across the course of a game, along with the good wave clear.

The corruption talents are too unreliable for me, despite the amount of damage they do. I don't see any significant boost from the talents (outside of the level 1) that isn't achieved much more easily by the more reliable Q at 16 or going sustain talents. If the corruption talents didn't require someone literally walking in a straight line forwards or backwards to hit (and on a 16 second cooldown no less) I'd probably feel better about taking the one at 16.

As for dying, I've not really had a big issue with Gul'dan in comparison to any other hero. I average 2-3 deaths per game no matter what ranged hero I play, though. I find him to be considerably more tanky than other range heroes, he just can't escape like Li-Ming (til level 20 at least). I suppose you could argue that a completed quest KT is tankier or near thanks to the stun as well. When it comes to surviving someone getting on him, though, I find him far more resilient than most anyone that doesn't have a stupid OP movement ability. I've baited quite a few Zeratul's/Illidan's/Thrall's to their death thanks to taking Healthstone to combat the dive at 13, and they run in all crazy eyed to a half health Gul'dan and I pop Healthstone/Corruption/Drain Life and end the trade at 50% again provided anyone on my team is paying attention.
 

scoobs

Member
His Q requires a relatively close range to hit heroes, and stepping out of position with him means death as he as no escapes, as your W will almost certainly be interrupted. His Q doesn't do anything until level 16, its basically a Medivh Q. Idk man, I've tried to make that build work but his corruption build does more damage and is way safer.

Are you taking drain life talents until 16, or what is your build? He only has 1 fel flame talent worth a damn (the one at 16). And even then I think the drop off time if you don't hit a hero is too quick. You lose those damage stacks in like 5 seconds right?
 
His Q requires a relatively close range to be effective, and stepping out of position with him means death as he as no escapes, and your W will almost certainly be interrupted. His Q doesn't do anything until level 16. Idk man, I've tried to make that build work but his corruption build does more damage and is way safer.

Are you taking drain life talents until 16, or what is your build? He only has 1 fel flame talent worth a damn (the one at 16).

That one isn't that great tbh.

Having to stack it up to 5, and then only when you hit an enemy hero, if an enemy hero lets you hit him 5 times, they were going to lose whether or not you picked that talent.

And what is it, 5% per stack? Not that great.
 

scoobs

Member
That one isn't that great tbh.

Having to stack it up to 5, and then only when you hit an enemy hero, if an enemy hero lets you hit him 5 times, they were going to lose whether or not you picked that talent.

And what is it, 5% per stack? Not that great.

I tend to agree, its not that great but its the only fel flame talent worth a damn.

And ya, Kerrigan is actually broken across all maps. She's patently absurd. Her level 4 talent Psionic Pulse is particularly offensive in how OP it is.
 

Alur

Member
His Q requires a relatively close range to hit heroes, and stepping out of position with him means death as he as no escapes, as your W will almost certainly be interrupted. His Q doesn't do anything until level 16, its basically a Medivh Q. Idk man, I've tried to make that build work but his corruption build does more damage and is way safer.

Are you taking drain life talents until 16, or what is your build? He only has 1 fel flame talent worth a damn (the one at 16). And even then I think the drop off time if you don't hit a hero is too quick. You lose those damage stacks in like 5 seconds right?

I either take the Drain Life at 1 or Corruption at 1. I also like the one at 4 because it's so easy to reset yourself on anything, compared to Consume which requires you to go to lane. The drop off time is not quick at all. You can rapid fire shoot those things the same as Medivh's Q. Why would it be good on one but not the other? That makes no sense.

That one isn't that great tbh.

Having to stack it up to 5, and then only when you hit an enemy hero, if an enemy hero lets you hit him 5 times, they were going to lose whether or not you picked that talent.

And what is it, 5% per stack? Not that great.

So you prefer the RNGesus that is Corruption? It does damage no doubt, but you can't hit it on any one target for shit beyond one tick.

It's the best of those 3 if you're looking to be useful.
 
I either take the Drain Life at 1 or Corruption at 1. I also like the one at 4 because it's so easy to reset yourself on anything, compared to Consume which requires you to go to lane. The drop off time is not quick at all. You can rapid fire shoot those things the same as Medivh's Q. Why would it be good on one but not the other? That makes no sense.



So you prefer the RNGesus that is Corruption? It does damage no doubt, but you can't hit it on any one target for shit beyond one tick.

It's the best of those 3 if you're looking to be useful.

Eh

I feel that Fel Flame could be made bigger.
 

Alur

Member
Sure, but it already hits two or three on the regular. It's not a hard skill to land. Infinitely easier than Medivh's and I don't hear anyone complaining about that when he's putting up numbers. Same reasoning applies to Gul'dan.
 
With Gul'dan, I've found great success with a burst build, with a touch of self sustain:

1) Echoed Corruption
4) Improved Life Tap
7) Hunger for Power
10) Horrify
13) Healthstone
16) Darkness Within
20) Haunt

I struggled a little bit with him at first, but between this build and just getting more used to his kit, I'm really enjoying him. Battlefield of Eternity is definitely his best map; being able to use Drain Life on the Immortals is incredible.
 

scoobs

Member
Sure, but it already hits two or three on the regular. It's not a hard skill to land. Infinitely easier than Medivh's and I don't hear anyone complaining about that when he's putting up numbers. Same reasoning applies to Gul'dan.

I'd say Medivhs is better just because he can fly around as a bird and drop in on people and teleport out whenever he damn well pleases. Gul'dan just kind of walks towards people and tries his best not to get jumped on and deleted.

I think I'm ready for Kerrigan to go back to being a niche pick, she's an absolute terror right now.
 

Zackat

Member
Zoia's birthday is today, actual BDay.
Haha. Good times.

I am gonna try Kerrigan a little more because the only time I played her was like a little after the first time they messed with her. She was good, but now she just dumpsters people by herself. I was in a game where we had kerrigan and Morales and she essentially mopped up the whole team after a well timed gank with the Morales ult.

Is she stronger than greymane is right now? Because he seems really good too. Though I guess greymane is more of a hybrid assassin than a meleee assassin.
 

Maledict

Member
Haha. Good times.

I am gonna try Kerrigan a little more because the only time I played her was like a little after the first time they messed with her. She was good, but now she just dumpsters people by herself. I was in a game where we had kerrigan and Morales and she essentially mopped up the whole team after a well timed gank with the Morales ult.

Is she stronger than greymane is right now? Because he seems really good too. Though I guess greymane is more of a hybrid assassin than a meleee assassin.

They are the two assassins around whom the game currently revolves, along with Falstad as the pure ranged option. They are why Li-Ming and Kael have win rates around 50% or below - because both of them can just *delete* the mages from existence. I honestly think they are why the mages are currently doing so "relatively" balanced / underperforming.

Falstads a whole different ballgame - global presence, good wave clear, high burst damage and the ultimate "reset the fight" ultimate.
 

Zackat

Member
Yeah it seems like they could do anything to Falstad and as long as he can fly across the map and have gust he would still be picked. Seems like a really hard guy to balance.

And honestly, I am perfectly fine with having these guys around to delete mages. If it becomes a huge problem they could give mages a long cooldown blink as default, like flash in LoL. It would maybe help open things up a little. Not Li Ming though I guess since she can already port around enough. They took bolt of the storm away from all of them didn't they?
 

dmosher

Member
I've really been enjoying Arthas after watching AlexTheProG stream him a few days ago. The build he was running was:

1 - Block
4 - Biting Cold (+30% dmg on E)
7 - Icebound Fortitude
10 - Ghouls
13 - Trail of Frost / Frigid Winds (against heavy AA)
16 - Remorseles Winter
20 - Ghouls / Anti-Magic Shell (against heavy mage burst)

What surprised me was how effective Icebound is at level 7; if you are good at anticipating when a stun/cc-heavy comp is going to engage on you it can really save you from some sticky situations. Also I used to view Trail of Frost at level 13 as pretty weak, but it can setup some amazing initiation and also equally amazing peels for your team.

Alex is a good streamer as well, if you're looking for someone to watch he's on now: https://www.twitch.tv/alextheprog
 
I've really been enjoying Arthas after watching AlexTheProG stream him a few days ago. The build he was running was:

1 - Block
4 - Biting Cold (+30% dmg on E)
7 - Icebound Fortitude
10 - Ghouls
13 - Trail of Frost / Frigid Winds (against heavy AA)
16 - Remorseles Winter
20 - Ghouls / Anti-Magic Shell (against heavy mage burst)

What surprised me was how effective Icebound is at level 7; if you are good at anticipating when a stun/cc-heavy comp is going to engage on you it can really save you from some sticky situations. Also I used to view Trail of Frost at level 13 as pretty weak, but it can setup some amazing initiation and also equally amazing peels for your team.

Alex is a good streamer as well, if you're looking for someone to watch he's on now: https://www.twitch.tv/alextheprog
Alex is awesome it was often said he's a diva but he hardly shows that outside. Also there was an awesome game where he and Jowe, former TL player, were trolling Bakery on Malfurion by using judgement + leap + the hunt stunlocking and deleting him.
 

Maledict

Member
They also had Falstad with Hinterland blast as well. That game was utterly hilarious - the entire team just wombo comboed Malfurion everytime they saw him,

If only Malfurion had some talent choice that let him become immune to all damage and CC?
 

brian!

Member
He should have taken it if only for the comedy of them sitting around waiting him to pop out so they could mob him w/ more ults
 

kirblar

Member
BlizzClaudio [score hidden] 2 minutes ago

We don't have any current plans to rework the way healing functions in the game, so there is no delay caused by this in introducing more Support heroes. We have Auriel coming soon and we're expecting her to shake things up when she flies into the Nexus!
They like having a dedicated healer on a team. Dunktrain never getting his wish confirmed.
 

Alur

Member
I guess Ketch is now officially full-time Overwatch then.

I still dig the healers, myself, but then again that's what I play when I want to win.
 

kirblar

Member
I guess Ketch is now officially full-time Overwatch then.

I still dig the healers, myself, but then again that's what I play when I want to win.
Yeah, I like it. We just need a LOT more real healers, Tassadar moving to Specialist alongside Medivh, and Tyrande getting a final call on her intended party role.
 

kirblar

Member
Butcher, Nazeebo, and Johanna are all in the shop right now. (Johanna's is probably just trying to fix Knight Takes Pawn though.)
[score hidden] 9 minutes ago

We're still actively having conversations about supports internally. I don't have any conclusions, but I can say that we're considering all the following when talking about any future changes:

A lot of supporting and healing Abilities are "low skill cap", in that they are point and click instant cast.
A lot healing Abilities are a huge part of the "power pie" of a support.
Some Supports need to stay easy , because we want a variety of options among Supports.
A lot of people really enjoy playing Supports right now, even though some don't.
Creating Supports without the Ability to heal is problematic, because Supports that can heal exist. In fact Medivh was a considered a Support for a long while internally, but every playtest it felt like the lack of true healing make him feel inferior. Rather than adjust his kit to include healing, we decided to embrace the fact that he was a Support-style specialist.
Any changes to healing number values (up, down, sideways or otherwise) will likely require a lot of other changes to the game, and might really change the way things feel.
Some players are playing Supports that otherwise wouldn't want to, due to the Daily Quest system.

That's not everything, but a lot of it. We don't have any immediate changes coming, but our goal is to make playing a support an enjoyable long-term experience.
Good to see this is a big discussion internally
[score hidden] 3 minutes ago

Hey --TaCo--,

Mana tension is one of many vectors we have when balancing a Hero. Overall, we try not to be very strict about it since our game was built on letting players 'brawl' with each other nonstop. We try our best to strike parity between Heroes and their respective builds and I think we can do better with Valla's 'mage build'. I would expect some changes in the near future :)
Valla's mana getting fixed.
 

Alur

Member
Yeah, I like it. We just need a LOT more real healers, Tassadar moving to Specialist alongside Medivh, and Tyrande getting a final call on her intended party role.

I agree. 9 or 10 months or whatever without a real healer is kind of insane, honestly. Auriel is a start, but they kind of need to do a run on support like they did tanks last summer/fall.

I haven't played OW since I did my placement games in it lol

I'm just leveling up to that point, myself. I play like 2-4 games a day now starting a few days ago. Was burnt out on it after beta so I skipped the launch madness.

Plus Ana is <3 she needs to be in HOTS plz Blizzard.
 

kirblar

Member
We like that one of Nova's key weaknesses is her low wave clear potential. She is better at roaming, and that is one of the trade-offs with her kit. We have no intention of adding viable wave clear to Nova.

Slight tangent: Recently I have been looking at Bribe and think it might be misplaced on a few characters. While exploring customized Bribe talents, I think this could potentially fit Nova - so while she wouldn't be good at wave clear, she could still add pressure to other lanes with this talent pick. She would likely earn some stacks through takedowns to encourage her to continue roaming.
This is a fantastic idea.
 

brian!

Member
I think giving nova some semblence of map control would go a long way to making her viable, i always thought shed end up w/ wards tho since that seems thematic and unique, dunno how effective something like bribe would be on her (what talent shed be giving up, the way it requires stacking (sitting near a wave/forcing ganks when she aint great at it early), plus the game is constructed in a way where you only need one person in a lane so it's not very high risk to send 2+ to do a camp at oppurtune moments), but it's also semi-thematic since she can go on sneaking missions for enemy camps.
 

Alur

Member
the run on tanks last fall was pretty much just Leoric and Johanna all the others see fringe play at best. Johanna even came out before the event started in june IIRC.

It doesn't matter if they are currently viable or not. Eventually nearly everything becomes viable and then falls out again. I don't even understand what your point is here. Having more supports only helps, not hurts.

EDIT: There are 14 warriors not counting Cho. All but two of whom can solo tank in a PUG, at varying levels. There are 9 total supports not counting Medivh, and only 7 of them are actual healers with Tyrande straddling the line. That's a big disparity. Also only 11 specialists to 19 assassins.
 
It doesn't matter if they are currently viable or not. Eventually nearly everything becomes viable and then falls out again. I don't even understand what your point is here. Having more supports only helps, not hurts.

my point is that even if they were to do a run it wouldn't necessarily improve the situation significantly beyond Auriel.

Anyway the last 2 days I won 3 of 10 games, I think just 1 of them was in HL the others unranked. I'm trying out new heroes but just today have been 3 consecutive stomps. Awful comps and really bad rotations. We were usually behind by 1 lvl at 4 or 7 already.
What annoys me is people going mercing either way giving up soak, somehow they still haven't gotten it into their head that experience matters especially when behind.
 

Alur

Member
my point is that just because they might be doing a run it wouldn't necessarily improve the situation significantly.

If they did like last year and released 5 support in a span of a few months like they did warriors, and we got 2 or 3 top-end viable heroes out of that (just as Jo and Leo were dominant last year) and the others could at least be played moving forward in regular play (as all of those warriors can)...then yes, it does improve the situation significantly.

Support is the only specialization where you have basically two heroes released for the role since Rehgar came out in July of 2014. That's ridiculous.
 
If they did like last year and released 5 support in a span of a few months like they did warriors, and we got 2 or 3 top-end viable heroes out of that (just as Jo and Leo were dominant last year) and the others could at least be played moving forward in regular play (as all of those warriors can)...then yes, it does improve the situation significantly.

Support is the only specialization where you have basically two heroes released for the role since Rehgar came out in July of 2014. That's ridiculous.

I'm not discounting that argument just that you're overselling the impact the run for warriors had beyond Leoric. Johanna and Leoric warped the meta till they fell out of popularity. I'm not counting ChoGall, that's debatable.

The game needs more supports undoubtedly but they shouldn't make loads of them before they have figured out what they want of the role.
 

kirblar

Member
They know what they want: Main healers.

Medivh has taught them a lesson they really shouldn't have needed to be taught about trying to stretch hybrids into that role.
 

patchday

Member
I haven't played OW since I did my placement games in it lol

Hard to balance these 2 games. I try to play Hots, OW, & Hearthstone. I just try to get at least 1 daily quest done (Hearthstone and HoTS) but sometimes I fall off

Wait Kerrigan is top tier again? Yooooo, I gotta get back to this game.

Yeah Blizz has been working hard to shake up the meta and make some heroes viable.
 

Maledict

Member
McIntyre duo queuing with Srey on stream. They are actually pretty funny together with Srey's dry observations.

Srey has been really good in THh both times he's been on - I was surprised given his rep, but he was entertaining and also willing to talk in depth about strategy and heroes, which is what I go to the show for.
 
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