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Heroes of the Storm |OT2| Imitation is the sincerest form of flattery

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scoobs

Member
I finally (accidentally) played a game with other humans. I'm all of level 6 btw.

Used Raynor, I wasn't exactly sure what I was doing aside from follow the other guy and shoot at the red guys. I died more than I did in AI mode.

It was actually a lot more fun playing with and against other humans.

Raynor was fairly easy to use. Might give Tracer a try, though I'm sure she less point and click and requires more skill.
Shes like an easier Raynor because you only have to click once
 
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Sometimes I hate the auto targeting of Withering Fire, it should prioritize low health heroes if they are in range or something. I had to chase Greymane under the fort because withering fire would target every other hero that's closer even though I took the range upgrade.
https://youtu.be/jcgdZWD6PSw
Posted this last page but maybe it got lost

Saw it, just don't like Zuna.
 

kirblar

Member
Looks like HOTS took the same proportional hit, so can't blame it on solo queue being gone.

(That being said, it's still a fuck up and will hurt them long term.)
 

Pilgrimzero

Member
Okay so I tried Diablo. He seemed to die a lot. Like wizards would just rain down spells on him. Or laser beam him. Jayna could just back away and launch death at him.

What am I missing?
 

kirblar

Member
Okay so I tried Diablo. He seemed to die a lot. Like wizards would just rain down spells on him. Or laser beam him. Jayna could just back away and launch death at him.

What am I missing?
Diablo wants to go in, flip someone, push them into your team, where they die.

He's primarily a ganker.
 

scoobs

Member
Watching Chu8 play him earlier, it would appear that E > W > Q is a fucking disgusting combo. He just destroyed people.
 

Maledict

Member
Speel Shield and I suppose other abilities will be able to be toggled in the Alarak build

Do you know how exactly this works? Because this is like, insanely gamechanging. Spellshield right now is such a hit and miss, skillless talent. Sometimes I play Lunara and it's amazing, saving me from complete death. Other times it just gets pinged off by dumb stuff and does nothing.

Also Tychus has lost Relentless at 7, and instead the talent reduces the cooldown on his grenades whenever he is stunned / rooted etc. Which seems really, really bad unless I'm not understanding something,
 
Do you know how exactly this works? Because this is like, insanely gamechanging. Spellshield right now is such a hit and miss, skillless talent. Sometimes I play Lunara and it's amazing, saving me from complete death. Other times it just gets pinged off by dumb stuff and does nothing.

Also Tychus has lost Relentless at 7, and instead the talent reduces the cooldown on his grenades whenever he is stunned / rooted etc. Which seems really, really bad unless I'm not understanding something,

From what I've seen it's like Anub's beetles, a button on the 1-4 slots. If it's on, the spell shield procs like usual on ability damage. If it's off, it's inactive. I only saw Grubby activating it with the cursor so not sure if you can bind it to a button there was also a 0.5 second CD.
 

Maledict

Member
Also seems like all the dps heroes have lost their relentless talents. Hammer, Raynor and tychus's versions now all do something else (reduce damage, knockback, reduce grenade cooldown respectively). Wonder if monks was changed - that would be a big nerf to him,
 

Ketch

Member
Also, if you guys are going to keep drawing comparisons between Dota and Hots then it bears pointing out that the archtype mechanics fundamentally operate in completely different ways.

In Dota, a "support" has a kit that is strong enough early game to not be item dependent and a "carry" has a kit that is item dependent early game and thus requires farming. If you look up the Dota roles and read their defining mechanics and match those up with the heroes you'll see what I am talking about when I say that their characteristics fall on one side or the other between being strong early game or late game.

Revamping traits to function similar to items won't fix the issues because our heroes have static roles and everyone starts out equally powerful (except a handful of heroes whose talents can scale over time because of last hits or collecting globes, etc. that kind of function like traditional carries).

Speaking from the perspective of a long time dota player, quest traits look like Blizzard's recognition that their initial use of talent trees can't manifest into an adequate way to control a hero's power curve a la dota items without the game becoming stale. TLV is one way of controlling a hero's power curve through time and Chromie's design does too but in the other direction. Then they experimented with structures and minions to try and control specialists' power curves.

As someone who plays supports frequently, my perspective on what happened when Blizzard gave them a thorough review wasn't that they thought everything was fine but rather they realized they didn't have a good idea of how to fix the problem. That is, they don't have a good sense of how to control a support's power curve other than adding/removing utility and then tuning/detuning their healing. That results in relegating their support heroes into relatively stale roles. A big problem now is that when they started they made healing so fundamental to the game's dynamics it's difficult to unwind its importance.

Anyway, the reason they can't simply have malleable roles via talents isn't because it would break the role or matchup system (because if you think about it, it would actually solve the issue of not having a very good healer or damage dealer in a QM or public game if you could simply talent into the deficient hero-space), but rather because it would throw the entire game's mechanics and balance into chaos.


100% agreed.

they don't know how to balance healing, so they can't easily fix the talent issues.
 
Also, if you guys are going to keep drawing comparisons between Dota and Hots then it bears pointing out that the archtype mechanics fundamentally operate in completely different ways.

In Dota, a "support" has a kit that is strong enough early game to not be item dependent and a "carry" has a kit that is item dependent early game and thus requires farming. If you look up the Dota roles and read their defining mechanics and match those up with the heroes you'll see what I am talking about when I say that their characteristics fall on one side or the other between being strong early game or late game.

Revamping traits to function similar to items won't fix the issues because our heroes have static roles and everyone starts out equally powerful (except a handful of heroes whose talents can scale over time because of last hits or collecting globes, etc. that kind of function like traditional carries).

Speaking from the perspective of a long time dota player, quest traits look like Blizzard's recognition that their initial use of talent trees can't manifest into an adequate way to control a hero's power curve a la dota items without the game becoming stale. TLV is one way of controlling a hero's power curve through time and Chromie's design does too but in the other direction. Then they experimented with structures and minions to try and control specialists' power curves.

As someone who plays supports frequently, my perspective on what happened when Blizzard gave them a thorough review wasn't that they thought everything was fine but rather they realized they didn't have a good idea of how to fix the problem. That is, they don't have a good sense of how to control a support's power curve other than adding/removing utility and then tuning/detuning their healing. That results in relegating their support heroes into relatively stale roles. A big problem now is that when they started they made healing so fundamental to the game's dynamics it's difficult to unwind its importance.

Anyway, the reason they can't simply have malleable roles via talents isn't because it would break the role or matchup system (because if you think about it, it would actually solve the issue of not having a very good healer or damage dealer in a QM or public game if you could simply talent into the deficient hero-space), but rather because it would throw the entire game's mechanics and balance into chaos.

They were willing to make the scaling changes last year, which fundamentally changed how many heroes played and were balanced. It didn't change any of the core philosophies but it was a pretty radical power shift and balance disturbance.

I think that the problem with healing is just something they realized they can't fix immediately, and doing a "fix" that doesn't change core philosophies about "always being in the action" depends more on things outside of existing healers/supports themselves being changed.

As a general rule, I believe they should focus on giving future supports (and existing supports that go through major updates/reworks) far more utility and damage prevention mechanisms rather than straight healing because these things are interesting and involve more counterplay.

However in order to make utility and damage prevention more valuable than they are now versus straight healing (so that heroes with these mechanics get picked over heroes with straight healing), they need to add better methods of initiating engagements from a distance so that initiating on objectives is easier, making poke wars less common.

HOTS needs more things like Sundering and Fly + Gust. DOTA comparable heroes like blink+Axe, blink+Tide that powerful initiation/CC combos. Things like Kunkka torrent or echo stomp that have huge cast ranges and can initiate on objectives from afar.

Beyond that, I'd really like to see more heroes like what they did with Medivh and heroes like Beastmaster that provide shitloads of utility for tanks and damage dealers, hard CC and maybe siege but don't directly do lots of raw damage or healing. That Medivh game on Towers of Doom from this past weekend was one of the coolest HOTS games I've watched in a long time. The game would really benefit from more heroes like that.

But overall I think the biggest reason healing is so valuable in this game is the total lack of initiation mechanics. If poking didn't matter as much, sustained healing wouldn't matter as much. DOTA without blink daggers would be a weird place. HOTS right now feels like what that might be like.
 

kirblar

Member
Tyrael had a 75% winrate at Euro Regionals. He might be in ban territory alongside Falstad now if you don't want to first pick him.

Sylvanas? 43%.
 

Mengy

wishes it were bannable to say mean things about Marvel
So I've played a bit of Guldan since he is free this week, and I have to say I like him a lot. He seems both fun and effective. He just might be the first hero I buy in the past few months.
 
One thing I wish Blizzard would let us do is allow us to "gift" skins to friends.

For instance say someone has a friend they play HL with all the time and his buddy ends up tanking a lot and plays a really mean Muradin. Well why not let him buy a kandy king muradin skin and gift it to his friend as a way of showing thanks?

It seems like a really big oversight from Blizzard that's a win win situation for everyone. It's such a ridiculously easy way to make more money off the game........
 

kirblar

Member
One thing I wish Blizzard would let us do is allow us to "gift" skins to friends.

For instance say someone has a friend they play HL with all the time and his buddy ends up tanking a lot and plays a really mean Muradin. Well why not let him buy a kandy king muradin skin and gift it to his friend as a way of showing thanks?

It seems like a really big oversight from Blizzard that's a win win situation for everyone.
Apparently the reason this isn't coming any time soon is fraud concerns that need to be worked out. That makes a lot of sense.
 

Alur

Member
Mostly unrelated other than the genre, but if you're into esports TSM are about to face off against CLG in the NA LCS semifinals in League. It's pretty much the rivalry of NA, lots of drama and backstory. Worth watching even if you don't like/play League IMO: https://www.twitch.tv/nalcs1

In HOTS news, though, what was the exact date Alarak releases? Did they give that?
 

kirblar

Member
9/13, along with the big Machines of War bundle. Zarya on 9/27.

Samuro probably up next as the October release- they don't tease their Blizzcon debuts, they want the audience cold.
 

Alur

Member
One would think Blizzcon announcement would have to be pretty big since we got this big dump here in August. Wonder if they'll finally release the Arena/Brawl too.
 

kirblar

Member
One would think Blizzcon announcement would have to be pretty big since we got this big dump here in August. Wonder if they'll finally release the Arena/Brawl too.
Kaeo basically confirmed real Arena news is coming at Blizzcon in his chat with Grubby. (It's coming "soon"- and not "TM" soon)

Vol'Jin, Varian Wrynn, and Deckard Cain (to go with the D4 announcement) would make sense as announcements there.
 

scoobs

Member
I'd expect at least one more d3 expansion before d4, but who knows. The engine is showing its age but reaper of souls sold so well I don't see how you dont put out more expansions
 

kirblar

Member
I'd expect at least one more d3 expansion before d4, but who knows. The engine is showing its age but reaper of souls sold so well I don't see how you dont put out more expansions
RoS's ending is such that another expansion doesn't really make sense. I don't think they expected it to be this well-received.

They've been hiring for a new project, and there's a misprinted D4 die in the Blizzcon goodies with 1-1-4 on one of the misprint sides. And they changed the Diablo logo to a square.
 

Alur

Member
Poor Mac man. From what I've seen, his #1 goal has always been to qualify for Blizzcon and play on that stage and have a chance to win. Getting removed from Naventic basically torpedo'd that for him.
 
Apparently mount speed is getting reduced? That'd be pretty huge, teams would have to relearn rotations all over.
Poor Mac man. From what I've seen, his #1 goal has always been to qualify for Blizzcon and play on that stage and have a chance to win. Getting removed from Naventic basically torpedo'd that for him.
Did he get into the game to late to make it year zero?
 
Poor Mac man. From what I've seen, his #1 goal has always been to qualify for Blizzcon and play on that stage and have a chance to win. Getting removed from Naventic basically torpedo'd that for him.

Sucks that he doesn't get a free PAX ticket essentially but only one of GFE/Naventic/Denial is going to qualify so a bunch of big names are going to be sitting this one out.

He got to go to two world championships in two different foreign countries. Pretty solid year for him.

I'm sure there will be a bunch of roster turnover again given how two of the big name teams won't be qualifying for Blizzcon.
 

Alur

Member
Didn't she have sprint and blink?

Yessir. It made for some plays.

Sucks that he doesn't get a free PAX ticket essentially but only one of GFE/Naventic/Denial is going to qualify so a bunch of big names are going to be sitting this one out.

He got to go to two world championships in two different foreign countries. Pretty solid year for him.

I'm sure there will be a bunch of roster turnover again given how two of the big name teams won't be qualifying for Blizzcon.

He did indeed. Just feel bad for him. He got the short end of the stick in that NVT deal IMO. Or the blame, or whatever you want to call it. Hopefully he'll keep streaming regularly for the next few months like he did last year til he gets on with a new team.

Honestly it's kinda shitty that for a lot of these teams the year is basically over in the middle of August because of an event in November.

A league setup's coming next year, which should help stabilize things some.

Let us pray.
 

kirblar

Member
It's that gamechanger thing they were excited about but couldn't talk about. Presumably being announced at Blizzcon.

Agreed on the timing- this game is going to quickly outgrow Blizzcon.
 

Alavard

Member
I really wish they would buff Gul'Dan in some way. I'm so utterly sick of someone on my team picking him in a draft right now.

He's probably due for another buff or two, but he's not really *that* bad as it stands.

At a winrate of over 45%, he's costing you on average less than one game in twenty, and has about the same winrate as Tassadar, and a higher one than Abathur.
 
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