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Heroes of the Storm |OT2| Imitation is the sincerest form of flattery
- Thread starter Nirolak
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Familienoberhauptvogel
Banned
Expected them to do a larger reshuffle they kicked 3 players when they were losing last time and they put up better results at the time. The 1 player change every couple months clearly isn't working.
Familienoberhauptvogel
Banned
Wait the actual story is way worse
Bakery did a write up on Morales
http://www.team-dignitas.net/articl...out-lt.-morales-rework-proposal-by-dig-bakery
Liked this part
Cris said:
Bakery did a write up on Morales
http://www.team-dignitas.net/articl...out-lt.-morales-rework-proposal-by-dig-bakery
Liked this part
This sounds actually not bad
Sidenote, but it is kind of weird how the competitive nature of these players drive them so, even to the point of passing up more lucrative options in order to pursue it on potentially lesser teams.
The two main people that spring to mind on this for me are McIntyre and Cris. Mac was passing 500 views per stream after growing his stream in the months post-Complexity but pre-NVT and was making some money doing it. Cris, when I've seen him streaming, is always around 700-900 viewers. It stands to reason that with a regular schedule and dedication, those numbers would grow.
chu8 and others have often talked about how streaming is more lucrative than competitive unless you are on the very top two teams in the region in this game. I guess I'm just shocked that both so willingly turn away from "making a living off of video games" in the method presented and pursue it in another manner and (usually on subpar teams).
Ironically, I feel like some people like those two and one of Kaeyoh/Dunktrain would probably help this game and the scene itself grow more by giving up the pro player/caster dream and committing to being a streamer full-time, which is what they all want in the end anyway.
The two main people that spring to mind on this for me are McIntyre and Cris. Mac was passing 500 views per stream after growing his stream in the months post-Complexity but pre-NVT and was making some money doing it. Cris, when I've seen him streaming, is always around 700-900 viewers. It stands to reason that with a regular schedule and dedication, those numbers would grow.
chu8 and others have often talked about how streaming is more lucrative than competitive unless you are on the very top two teams in the region in this game. I guess I'm just shocked that both so willingly turn away from "making a living off of video games" in the method presented and pursue it in another manner and (usually on subpar teams).
Ironically, I feel like some people like those two and one of Kaeyoh/Dunktrain would probably help this game and the scene itself grow more by giving up the pro player/caster dream and committing to being a streamer full-time, which is what they all want in the end anyway.
Familienoberhauptvogel
Banned
Yuuj is now coaching GFE.
Familienoberhauptvogel
Banned
Wouldn't be surprised if it ends up being Vortix and Lucifron they were trying out with them when they made swaps the last time but they were both out of form.
It wasn't that bad for us, we had figured it out pretty quick. But the QQ on Reddit and even in thread was pretty huge. People didn't realize they needed to soak all 3 lanes on that first Punisher and they were just getting teamwiped by it and then down building exp + kill exp + lost soak.
it's one of the (up)downsides of having a moba that's marketed for less skilled ppls, many realized early on that a boss that prioritized heroes was really simple to manipulate but you can kind of follow blizz's community patching style where they first lowered it's dmg, then lowered the emphasis it had on heroes, instead of just doing the latter. in heroes it's more rare for ppl in your game to yell at you for dying to the punisher or letting it hit buildings instead of drawing aggro than in games like dota or league.
^ as an example of opaque game mechanics that don't travel by word of (angry) mouth
it's really really rare in this game for someone to get angry at you for not playing optimal, the furthest ive seen it is something like hero picks or bad map awareness. in the end this is a good thing to me, but to an extent it blocks the standardization of optimal play in this game, which again to me is not a bad thing, but might kind of lower the bar for the game as a whole
^ as an example of opaque game mechanics that don't travel by word of (angry) mouth
it's really really rare in this game for someone to get angry at you for not playing optimal, the furthest ive seen it is something like hero picks or bad map awareness. in the end this is a good thing to me, but to an extent it blocks the standardization of optimal play in this game, which again to me is not a bad thing, but might kind of lower the bar for the game as a whole
Familienoberhauptvogel
Banned
nah the issue was that people got killed by the punisher outside the gate. Myself included.
People still don't get it nowadays at times and the map is still fine.
i think in ptr in particular a lot of ppl were grouping to defend it and then getting wiped out by it because theyd stand on top of each other lol
and then like alur is saying theyd get even further behind because they think grouping as 5 in the early game can ever be a good idea
and then like alur is saying theyd get even further behind because they think grouping as 5 in the early game can ever be a good idea
TheSadRanger
Banned
Global heroes like falstad, bw, are going to become so much more sought after with this mount speed nerf. As if they weren't already.
In a way this could be a huge Lunara buff since she was one of the only non mount characters who didn't receive a speed nerf and still retains her 20% movement bonus.......
In a way this could be a huge Lunara buff since she was one of the only non mount characters who didn't receive a speed nerf and still retains her 20% movement bonus.......
I'd like this to mean more Dehaka too, but I'm not super optimistic about it.
TheSadRanger
Banned
I actually love having a Dehaka on my team for maps like dragon shire or cursed hollow. I still don't see him being anymore viable though on maps like garden of terror or boe unfortunately.
I'm sure that was an issue, but that didn't cause a team wipe + a fort. That was the real issue, people clumping, as brian said below:
People thought that like you see on other maps, that this was an objective to defend as 5. Unfortunately, with the Punisher tuned up at that time and people not knowing WTF to expect, he just ended up getting free partial and full team wipes plus allowing the team to get a fort and sometimes even go further. Coupled with the loss of soak from all of that time, you'd be down 3 levels before level 10 on a regular basis.
Ironically, there's some recent Blizzard interview where the dev says that the Punisher is tuned back up to almost exactly how it was at release...it's just now people know better how to handle it.
Familienoberhauptvogel
Banned
Except that it took just 30 skeletons. Man KT was obnoxious on that map.
BreezyLimbo
Banned
Zagara is always banned. That makes me sad.
Reddit called him out on that, he's straight up wrong. The minion changes alone are different.
Familienoberhauptvogel
Banned
Well that wasn't what I expected
Maybe my parents aren't so bad after all.
Daihuu said:
Maybe my parents aren't so bad after all.
As he replied in the post, he was talking about Punisher strength alone. And that's what I was talking about as well.
His response in that reddit thread even says the non-Arcane ones are actually even stronger than they were at release because they buffed their affixes on top of the other buffs.
Damn. That's an ordeal.
Thanks for the responses guys. I have been keeping up so I know that Sonya has some options but her ability CC is more of an interrupt and her ult CC isn't even preferred. I know about the recent Hammer winrate increase and it's likely a combination of diehard fans playing her well (I doubt new players would be looking to play her now?) and the range increase. It shouldn't last too long and she'll still be rare to pull out. Also, I don't like Falstad because I still link him to how he was nudged towards being more of an ability character back in the day as they settled him towards being a hybrid. And something about the dwarf and his damn hammerang always pissed me off when laning against him early game.
My issue with HotS right now is how much is "if they have this, then it's a good idea to play that. Otherwise don't touch it." I just want to chill with my favorite heroes and progress and the main form of progression for me at this point would be ranked play. So the only way I could be happy is if more of my favorite heroes and playstyles were better more often, but I know that for the health of this game as a MOBA that Blizzard is better off going in the opposite direction.
Maybe if I just pushed myself through the hump, focused on how/where each of my favorite heroes are at their best, and get enough of a stable that I can play in a majority of situations and then just grit my teeth for the handful of times leftover, I'll be happy. But half the time I just want to give up and play a different game instead, despite how much I love some of the character mechanics and different maps in this game.
Anyway, thanks for hearing me out and giving me suggestions to not just be a melodramatic sourpuss.
In other news, I can very much believe the Blizzard guy's comment, and I hope to see people adapt to the Starcraft maps quickly before any nerfs are made. My only wish about Braxis Holdout is that they made it more of a race to fill your beacon strength instead of a rotation map like Dragon Shire with some amount of consolation prize.
Nah, I understand where you're coming from completely, especially as I've gotten older. There's several games that come out each year that I try and want to love, but the parts I enjoy the most just aren't the focus or whatever, or I have to wade through shit to enjoy it and I just go back to HOTS (or Overwatch, now). Nothing wrong with wanting to play the heroes you enjoy and being frustrated that you can't. Not everyone wants to be the square peg in the square hole.
It may just not be the game for yet, but I think that what you are wanting is not inconceivable once the roster has truly filled out. I'd guess Blizzard needs about 75-80 heroes and further iteration on what they want out of each archetype/class before it can get to what you envision, but I think eventually we could reach that point. Like we were discussing yesterday, one of the biggest issues is how one-size-fits-all a few of the Alpha/Beta heroes were and are, so perhaps as they deliver more options they will whittle those down to a fine and focused point instead of "wave clear + CC + something extra".
Familienoberhauptvogel
Banned
Damn this team went all melee and shit and I'm like thanks I'mma fuck your shit up with my orbs fam. Full range, extra damage, practically no CD. I also dodged every single spear Sonya tried to throw at me. 0 Deaths.
Familienoberhauptvogel
Banned
Nah I went straight back into a game and this time someone made the mistake of taking chromie while I could still pick Tyrael. Judgement + follow through GG no re.
Chromie's combo does not work on Tyrael just set the Q up beforehand and then Q out.
Auriel does a ton of damage for a support now.
Hah I needed these games, the last 4 or so were total shitshows. Though our sylvanas that game was silenced and pinged in the necessary intervals non stop. Told my team that you can mute her in stat screen.
Chromie's combo does not work on Tyrael just set the Q up beforehand and then Q out.
Auriel does a ton of damage for a support now.
Hah I needed these games, the last 4 or so were total shitshows. Though our sylvanas that game was silenced and pinged in the necessary intervals non stop. Told my team that you can mute her in stat screen.
I'd like to see more heroes with synergy in their kits that promotes a play style. Overwatch heroes are the best examples of this - except maybe Widowmaker's mine lols.
For example:
- Kerrigan can W>E>R and Q at the start or finish, all the while building up her trait
- Medivh can Z to close in/escape, Q on short cooldown while weaving in and out with E and W
- The Butcher can R>E>Q>W to close in, body block, slow, and brand. Both of his heroics complement his combo
- Alarak! can R/W>Q>E>R/W to stick to/manipulate targets
- Even Lunara can AA/Q/R>W and stick to targets with her increased move speed. Wisp has no synergy with the rest of her kit though
- Kharazim with Insight
- Illidan
- Sonya?
Compare that to these heroes whose abilities have little-to-no synergy:
- Jaina can...R>E>W>Q... cc, damage, damage and more damage. The only synergy is with her trait chilling targets for...bonus damage.
- Tychus
- Falstad
- Johanna, except maybe W>Q to almost clear a minion wave...
- Brightwing - can kinda have synergy through talents like old Z build and new CDR build on her trait
- Uther
- Rehgar
- Morales
Kael'Thas is somewhere in between. I kinda liked his W>E>Q combo but it doesn't seem as important anymore?
This may not make as much sense for support/utility heroes as they're mostly dependent on other heroes.
I realize that some of these heroes are considered to be powerful but that's usually, only because of certain aspects of their kit (e.g. Falstad's global flight and mighty gust).
For example:
- Kerrigan can W>E>R and Q at the start or finish, all the while building up her trait
- Medivh can Z to close in/escape, Q on short cooldown while weaving in and out with E and W
- The Butcher can R>E>Q>W to close in, body block, slow, and brand. Both of his heroics complement his combo
- Alarak! can R/W>Q>E>R/W to stick to/manipulate targets
- Even Lunara can AA/Q/R>W and stick to targets with her increased move speed. Wisp has no synergy with the rest of her kit though
- Kharazim with Insight
- Illidan
- Sonya?
Compare that to these heroes whose abilities have little-to-no synergy:
- Jaina can...R>E>W>Q... cc, damage, damage and more damage. The only synergy is with her trait chilling targets for...bonus damage.
- Tychus
- Falstad
- Johanna, except maybe W>Q to almost clear a minion wave...
- Brightwing - can kinda have synergy through talents like old Z build and new CDR build on her trait
- Uther
- Rehgar
- Morales
Kael'Thas is somewhere in between. I kinda liked his W>E>Q combo but it doesn't seem as important anymore?
This may not make as much sense for support/utility heroes as they're mostly dependent on other heroes.
I realize that some of these heroes are considered to be powerful but that's usually, only because of certain aspects of their kit (e.g. Falstad's global flight and mighty gust).
Im kinda the opposite where im not really interested in how a kit synergizes w/ itself but w/ how a kit defines a character within its role.
Like obviously the kit should be thematically appropriate, but stuff like kerrigan, while fun to play, only really serves to make her pretty one-dimensional. Which isnt necesarily bad atm, it helps define her role (burst/pick melee) and forwards her as a premier pick on certain maps. But i think there is a hole you can get into when trying to make a wholistic kit when mobas are about piecing together a puzzle via building team comps. Like kits should strive towards eeking out roles within roles (diff types of warriors, asssassins, supports, whatever, for different needs). I guess i mean like...kits should focus on interacting w/ the things around it rather than concentrating on being combo pieces within itself, while maintaining a theme that specializes the hero. What makes kerrigan interesting to me are the followup options after her combo and synergies w/ things like uther and bw, her combo is just there for me.
Like dehaka has a pretty good base kit that specializes him as a particular type of warrior, who is about flanking and getting picks, but is subpar at peeling and teamfighting, i think that is pretry good design, esp. if they make him better at the former and make the former more important in the meta
Like obviously the kit should be thematically appropriate, but stuff like kerrigan, while fun to play, only really serves to make her pretty one-dimensional. Which isnt necesarily bad atm, it helps define her role (burst/pick melee) and forwards her as a premier pick on certain maps. But i think there is a hole you can get into when trying to make a wholistic kit when mobas are about piecing together a puzzle via building team comps. Like kits should strive towards eeking out roles within roles (diff types of warriors, asssassins, supports, whatever, for different needs). I guess i mean like...kits should focus on interacting w/ the things around it rather than concentrating on being combo pieces within itself, while maintaining a theme that specializes the hero. What makes kerrigan interesting to me are the followup options after her combo and synergies w/ things like uther and bw, her combo is just there for me.
Like dehaka has a pretty good base kit that specializes him as a particular type of warrior, who is about flanking and getting picks, but is subpar at peeling and teamfighting, i think that is pretry good design, esp. if they make him better at the former and make the former more important in the meta
Idk man...
Tychus overkill when they come into fight then dash forward and grenade them back when they try to run.
Johanna blind em when they come in and condemn and shield slam when they try to run.
Falstad lightning rod then hammer rang barrel roll to keep them in the radius.
Bright wing and uther I agree with though, but that's because they have wasted buttons with generic are damage skill that really doesn't do anything.
If anyone listens to Core, I think this was fitting:
Bo: "and then it was quick match. Every match on the ptr yesterday was: valla, butcher and some... Some jerk playing li-ming for no reason. Like, like there's no changes to li-Ming! What are you testing?! You're just here to ruin everyone's day"
John: "he's testing your patience"
Literally, Alur. I chose Li-Ming one game cause I love her and wanted to ruin someone's day. It was followed up with: y, y, y, y, y, y, y, y, y? Li-Ming didn't even get buffed did she? Y, y, y, y, y, y,
Bo: "and then it was quick match. Every match on the ptr yesterday was: valla, butcher and some... Some jerk playing li-ming for no reason. Like, like there's no changes to li-Ming! What are you testing?! You're just here to ruin everyone's day"
John: "he's testing your patience"
Literally, Alur. I chose Li-Ming one game cause I love her and wanted to ruin someone's day. It was followed up with: y, y, y, y, y, y, y, y, y? Li-Ming didn't even get buffed did she? Y, y, y, y, y, y,
I think the correct sequence of events was "peetur so I can play alarak later" and then "ALARAK!" to let me know you were online.
Followed by you playing one game of Alarak. Then some other heroes. Then finally Li-Ming. And during all this I was like yo why not Alarak and getting no response. So then you go Ming and I was like why Ming breh? Milly's reponse "(there wasn't one)". Did she even get buffed? Milly's response "(there wasn't one)". After a couple minutes of Milly being tabbed out. "yyyyyyyyyy".
They are simple questions breh, just answer them.
PTR Balance Patch: http://us.battle.net/heroes/en/blog/20271416
Headless Horseman DPS buff
Falstad nerfs/buffs trying to even out pickrates on talents
Valla buffs to AA damage and fall-off time on Hatred (I think the hatred fall-off change is gonna be a bad thing ultimately. Way too big a drawback.)
Azmodan got TFB kill time nerfs reverted
Sgt hammer has some mines changes
Zagara Nerf
Morales grenade fix to insta cast
Headless Horseman DPS buff
Falstad nerfs/buffs trying to even out pickrates on talents
Valla buffs to AA damage and fall-off time on Hatred (I think the hatred fall-off change is gonna be a bad thing ultimately. Way too big a drawback.)
Azmodan got TFB kill time nerfs reverted
Sgt hammer has some mines changes
Zagara Nerf
Morales grenade fix to insta cast
They did it last time as well. Seems they are getting faster and faster at the game.
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