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[protonium]

and Valla is fucking awful. Does the game really need another tits and ass skin for a hero? Particulary a hero who already has multiple skins?

Which other heroes/skins are you referring to? Out of 57 heroes, 17 of which are female with ~64 skins (including the base skins), the only risque skins are:
1. Widowmaker Nova's package
2. Tracer's base and master skin's butt
3. Succubus Kerrigan's package
4. Arguably Sonya's chest
5. Certainly Lunara's butt

This is by far one of the more conservative games as far as female character designs go.

Is your issue that Deputy Valla is wearing a crop top that's less revealing than a bikini top with a flat butt, or is it that she has too many skins? This would be her 5th skin; not even the most of any hero. If they made a sexy Chromie skin would you be ok with it?

 

[Familienoberhauptvogel]

Li Ming's Master Skin also has her go skirtless for some reason. The volleyball skin gives her a tracer ass as well.

Blizzard is generally pretty pandering when it comes to female designs.

 

[Alpha Centauri]

Li Ming's Master Skin also has her go skirtless for some reason. The volleyball skin gives her a tracer ass as well.

Blizzard is generally pretty pandering when it comes to female designs.

When I look at every single other moba out there, the lack of flesh that blizz shows stands out.


Now with that said... I can't wait to use the Eyepad, with the old god eye staring up, with my Lunar Jaina or Star princess ming. /facepalm

 

[Maledict]

When I look at every single other moba out there, the lack of flesh that blizz shows stands out.

They are absolutely better than most - possibly that makes it stand out a bit more to me? All cards on the table, as I've grown older I find myself less tolerant of that pandering crap so am a bit hypersensitive to it. Just don't see the need for the exposed stomach bit at all - just like the fact that Li-Mind loses her bloody skirt in the master skin irritates me because otherwise its ace!

 

[protonium]

Li Ming's Master Skin also has her go skirtless for some reason. The volleyball skin gives her a tracer ass as well.

Ok, sure. Out of Li-Ming's entire master skin, 2% of it is revealing.

Blizzard is generally pretty pandering when it comes to female designs.

Are they? I've yet to see anyone make anything other than baseless, off the cuff remarks.

 

[Alpha Centauri]

Ok, sure. Out of Li-Ming's entire master skin, 2% of it is revealing.

I hate to break it to you but humans have butts. Don't watch sports or one may faint.

Are they? I've yet to see anyone make anything other than baseless, off the cuff remarks.

You literally picked the most pandering sport(Women's Beach Volleyball) in modern history, but I get your point and agree blizz has been good for the most part.

Blizzard needs to stay vigilant that they don't ruin the goodwill they have by focusing on design over sexuality. Base Valla is a great example. She has curves and form-fitting clothes, but you literally don't need her ass hanging out to see she is well-designed and attractive.

 

[protonium]

You literally picked the most pandering sport(Women's Beach Volleyball) in modern history, but I get your point and agree blizz has been good for the most part.

Blizzard needs to stay vigilant that they don't ruin the goodwill they have by focusing on design over sexuality. Base Valla is a great example. She has curves and form-fitting clothes, but you literally don't need her ass hanging out to see she is well-designed and attractive.

Edit: I see your point. Li-Ming's volleyball skin is comparable to indoor volleyball outfits.

 

[Nirolak]

I feel cosmetics are generally much less of an issue than base designs.

If the scenario was reversed and Deputy Valla was the default with regular Valla being a premium skin, that'd be a really unfortunate situation for people who wanted to play the character but felt uncomfortable with such a pandering look.

Here, it's a totally opt in scenario, and as people mentioned, you even have a variety of other skins to pick from.

 

[Familienoberhauptvogel]

Are they? I've yet to see anyone make anything other than baseless, off the cuff remarks.

I mean you got eternally young characters, boob plate, skin tight bodysuits (sometimes in addition to boob plate), Kerrigan got high heels for feet,...
Saying Blizzard is pandering has never seemed particularly baseless to me.

 

[Alur]

In a totally unrelated topic, I've seen Familie with a Glaurung avatar for so long now that I picture he looks like Glaurung IRL, or maybe he is Glaurung.

 

[protonium]

I mean you got eternally young characters, boob plate, skin tight bodysuits (sometimes in addition to boob plate), Kerrigan got high heels for feet,...
Saying Blizzard is pandering has never seemed particularly baseless to me.

You're reaching so hard. Eternally young characters? This isn't The Sims. The heroes aren't going to age and die. Meanwhile, they're making a concerted effort to make Overwatch their most diverse IP yet.

Literally one hero in HotS has a boob plate and that's Sonya, a Barbarian with what I'd consider to be a thematically appropriate outfit. Meanwhile, Johanna's wearing full plate armour because...she's a Crusader.

Without checking, every hero wears skin tight body suits. Go revel in Azmodunk's sexy arms and legs. What are you expecting? Homeless of the Storm, featuring burlap sacks and garbage bags?

Ok, you got me. Kerrigan, the Queen of Blades, is wearing high heels. I'll give you another one, Valla's wearing them too. 2 out of 17 heroes.


There are enough egregious games out there but don't trivialize the issue by pretending this game is one of them.

 

[Familienoberhauptvogel]

In a totally unrelated topic, I've seen Familie with a Glaurung avatar for so long now that I picture he looks like Glaurung IRL, or maybe he is Glaurung.

I wish I always wanted to be Ginger.

You're reaching so hard. Eternally young characters? This isn't The Sims. The heroes aren't going to age and die. Meanwhile, they're making a concerted effort to make Overwatch their most diverse IP yet.

Literally one hero in HotS has a boob plate and that's Sonya, a Barbarian with what I'd consider to be a thematically appropriate outfit. Meanwhile, Johanna's wearing full plate armour because...she's a Crusader.

Without checking, every hero wears skin tight body suits. Go revel in Azmodunk's sexy arms and legs. What are you expecting? Homeless of the Storm, featuring burlap sacks and garbage bags?

Ok, you got me. Kerrigan, the Queen of Blades, is wearing high heels. I'll give you another one, Valla's wearing them too. 2 out of 17 heroes.


There are enough egregious games out there but don't trivialize the issue by pretending this game is one of them.

Come on, Sonya is the only one?

Spoiler

 

[protonium]

I'm enjoying playing the Butcher in QM a great deal lately. I barely played him before the rework but he's incredibly fun and seemingly viable in uncoordinated play now. In the last 12 games, I've lost twice. One was to a nasty team with Anub, Kerrigan, Malf, Zera and Nova. The CC and burst were too real.

His talent diversity seems good too, with the exception of his heroics. I've swapped things around based on my team and the other team's comp to decent success. Lamb to the Slaughter seems like a must pick for the silence, especially with the level 20 upgrade. Furnace Blast might be good for a wombo combo but he already puts out so much damage if he can stick to his targets.

 

[Milly79]

This game just needs to be all men

 

[Alur]

Agreed. Problem solved I guess?

 

[protonium]

I wish I always wanted to be Ginger.


Come on, Sonya is the only one?

Spoiler

Oh, I didn't realize people were hypersensitive to any form of chest armor on a female. I thought you were referring to a literal boob plate a la Sonya. I'm not a fantasy armorsmith or a weapons scientist from the future to know whether protecting your heart against technologically and biologically advanced races is a necessity or demeaning. Maybe what a covert ops agent needs is to be encased in a shapeless, cement block.

(I can't see the first image in your post; it says vbulletin.)

 

[protonium]

This game just needs to be all men

Maybe but, there was a Reddit post the other day asking for a lanky, male hero to be represented in the HotS roster.

 

[Familienoberhauptvogel]

Oh, I didn't realize people were hypersensitive to any form of chest armor on a female. I thought you were referring to a literal boob plate a la Sonya. I'm not a fantasy armorsmith or a weapons scientist from the future to know whether protecting your heart is a necessity or demeaning. Maybe what a covert ops agent needs to be encased in a shapeless, cement block.

(I can't see the first image in your post.)

maybe actual combat armor isn't shaped like boobs. Are you seriously arguing boob plate is realistic now?

I avatar quoted you

 

[protonium]

maybe actual combat armor isn't shaped like boobs. Are you seriously arguing boob plate is realistic now?

I avatar quoted you

I did nothing of the sort. If you take issue with how shapely it is then only Blizzard's artists can help you.

Edit: Unlike the HotS roster, I can't afford bespoke clothing or combat armor for that matter.
Edit 2: Is anything in HotS completely realistic?

 

[brian!]

I'm enjoying playing the Butcher in QM a great deal lately. I barely played him before the rework but he's incredibly fun and seemingly viable in uncoordinated play now. In the last 12 games, I've lost twice. One was to a nasty team with Anub, Kerrigan, Malf, Zera and Nova. The CC and burst were too real.

His talent diversity seems good too, with the exception of his heroics. I've swapped things around based on my team and the other team's comp to decent success. Lamb to the Slaughter seems like a must pick for the silence, especially with the level 20 upgrade. Furnace Blast might be good for a wombo combo but he already puts out so much damage if he can stick to his targets.

Yeah i think new butch is a good rework, esp. w/ how straightforward his passive affects the game. Ltts still is king. It's hard to make him work out in higher lvls cause all he really wants to do is eat meat but he is an example of worthwhile early investment, he gets crazy strong

W/r/t talents i think i only ever went one build on ptr but i only really remember being hyped on the extra ms on w targets

 

[scoobs]

Sooooo... eye pad almost confirms my Cthun or (Yogg Saron??) theory as the "weird" hero coming. Right? Tentacles, eyeballs, ya... I'm right

 

[Celegus]

Sooooo... eye pad almost confirms my Cthun or (Yogg Saron??) theory as the "weird" hero coming. Right? Tentacles, eyeballs, ya... I'm right

Would be pretty spoopy for Halloween. Love that Xul!!

 

[Alur]

Is Eye Pad a 20,000 gold mount though? That's a good question I've saw pop up on reddit, IMO. Haven't had a new one since last year IIRC.

 

[Milly79]

Sooooo... eye pad almost confirms my Cthun or (Yogg Saron??) theory as the "weird" hero coming. Right? Tentacles, eyeballs, ya... I'm right

Or it just goes with Alarak'a skin

 

[scoobs]

Or it just goes with Alarak'a skin

Whys it coming out a month after his release then? They usually bundle these things, I don't buy this theory.

 

[Alur]

Seems as valid as it being released for C'Thun. Don't think the mount has much of anything to do with that coming or not. As you said yourself, they normally bundle these things together.

 

[scoobs]

Seems as valid as it being released for C'Thun. Don't think the mount has much of anything to do with that coming or not. As you said yourself, they normally bundle these things together.

Blizzard likes teasing things

 

[Milly79]

Seems as valid as it being released for C'Thun. Don't think the mount has much of anything to do with that coming or not. As you said yourself, they normally bundle these things together.

Come on dawg

 

[Alur]

They also like people reading into things.

This is pretty much a moot argument, though, because even if he is the surprise "weird" hero they aren't gonna be like "Yo, did anyone catch that Eye Pad was a tell for us releasing this hero? Ayyyy got eeem".

 

[scoobs]

I'm just saying, eyeballs and tentacles, on a random new mount just before Blizzcon... its fishy I tell ya! C'thun is imminent!

 

[Alur]

I'd like to see that, TBH. Really I'm game for any "weird" hero that doesn't involve needing two people to play it. Cho'Gall is/was sweet but the two people requirement is annoying.

Also, I did it fam:

Til my next BoE or Dragon Shire loss, anyway.

 

[scoobs]

Li Ming is fun and all, but at what point does Blizzard decide she isn't fair in any reasonable way? There just has to be a nerf coming. Calamity damage or something. Christ she explodes entire teams by herself and nobody seems to care. "Well thats Li-Ming for ya!" Why is this okay lol? I've never understood it. She's so easy to play.

 

[Familienoberhauptvogel]

Li Ming is fun and all, but at what point does Blizzard decide she isn't fair in any reasonable way? There just has to be a nerf coming. Calamity damage or something. Christ she explodes entire teams by herself and nobody seems to care

took like a year for KT

 

[Alur]

Milly will laugh, but I still hate facing KT more. That stupid AOE spread is no fun in uncoordinated games.

That said, Li-Ming's resets are pretty stoop. Surprised it has went unchanged for so long. A long time ago I said I thought the reset should only come if she gets the killing blow. That was prior to the other nerfs/changes, so I dunno if that'd be too far now, but I wouldn't be sad to see that.

tl;dr Two and a half years into playing this game and I still think every mage sans Jaina has been bad for the game and we would be better off if they were removed or completely reworked. huehue

 

[Milly79]

Li Ming is fun and all, but at what point does Blizzard decide she isn't fair in any reasonable way? There just has to be a nerf coming. Calamity damage or something. Christ she explodes entire teams by herself and nobody seems to care. "Well thats Li-Ming for ya!" Why is this okay lol? I've never understood it. She's so easy to play.

You're like super LTTP

Ming is not nearly as good as she once was

 

[Maledict]

She's at a 48.9% win rate in hero league overall, and at the top levels that only goes up to 50%. Yes, she's capable of amazing plays - but there s nothing wrong with that, and she's clearly not broken in terms of power levels. A lot of the time you would be much better off with a lunara or Jaina.

 

[Familienoberhauptvogel]

You're like super LTTP

Ming is not nearly as good as she once was

but she's still the #1 mage in competitive atm

 

[jediyoshi]

I'm just saying, eyeballs and tentacles, on a random new mount just before Blizzcon... its fishy I tell ya! C'thun is imminent!

Geez I wish Blizzard would stop pandering to all its c͇̟̝u̜̮̟̩͞l͈̼̲̳̤̼̼t̘̗̗̦i̛̹̯̻̼̜̣s̥̱͈̝̹̬t̰̮̜̮̫͔ p̴̪͕͙͖̜̩̀l̨̺͡a͏̹͠y҉͙̹̟̬̮̥̹̩͟e̳̯̠͞r̶̛͇͇s͏͏̶̗̟͇.

 

[brian!]

jaina is underrated but ppl cant hit rings

li ming is pretty good where she is imo, she's more dependent on her team for both survivability and resets
best pick in general for long range burst, but she prob has a harder time on the new maps

i think i saw a team pick kael for a pick comp, he fits pretty well in that kind of comp
kael, dehaka, thrall, bw, valla/sylv is a pretty good comp if kael can hit his e

 

[Maledict]

Karl still has a place, but it's a narrow place. Infernal Shrines and Braxxis Holdout she shines with that AE and Waveclear, and also cursed hollow with the stun. He's definitely not someone I pick all the time though unless we are going really heavy stun.

 

[jaundicejuice]

Hotpink cowgirl Valla looks like my kinda jam. Also I'll probably buy the KT skin.

It wasn't very hard, all I did was notice there was a Chromie, and assume they won because she instantly deletes every hero in the game and is very balanced.

She deletes oblivious players. The wind up on both Sand Blast and Dragon's Breath are easy to predict, especially on fixed objective fights, and both moves are easily defeated by this crazy thing called lateral movement. If you spend any amount of time at a fixed location or walk backwards in a straight line, you kinda deserve it if her combo lands.

Chromie is only as good as the team in front of her and the team you're fighting allows her to be. Tracer, Zeratul, Nova, Butcher, Kerrigan, Muradin, Anub'arak, Greyman, Tyreal...so many heroes counter her and force her to choose safety talents over damage.

 

[Familienoberhauptvogel]

She deletes oblivious players. The wind up on both Sand Blast and Dragon's Breath are easy to predict, especially on fixed objective fights, and both moves are easily defeated by this crazy thing called lateral movement. If you spend any amount of time at a fixed location or walk backwards in a straight line, you kinda deserve it if her combo lands.

Chromie is only as good as the team in front of her and the team you're fighting allows her to be. Tracer, Zeratul, Nova, Butcher, Kerrigan, Muradin, Anub'arak, Greyman, Tyreal...so many heroes counter her and force her to choose safety talents over damage.

Isn't proto the highest ranked in this thread? Unless he was in a queue for ages it reckons he played with pretty high ranked / skill players.
Generally I agree with you and scoobs oversells her but Malf's root is also pretty op right now and should combine well with Chromie.
The enemy team should have won every immortal though.

 

[Alur]

You're like super LTTP

Ming is not nearly as good as she once was

She's at a 48.9% win rate in hero league overall, and at the top levels that only goes up to 50%. Yes, she's capable of amazing plays - but there s nothing wrong with that, and she's clearly not broken in terms of power levels. A lot of the time you would be much better off with a lunara or Jaina.

FWIW on this week's Town Hall Heroes, both Dunktrain and Bakery said she's still too strong.

To quote Bakery, he said "she's too slippery and too punishing". They talk about her for a few minutes, including some discussion about how how a random combo from her can end in "oops I got a kill now we win the fight" and whether or not her resets should have a cooldown or something of that sort.

 

[scoobs]

Hotpink cowgirl Valla looks like my kinda jam. Also I'll probably buy the KT skin.



She deletes oblivious players. The wind up on both Sand Blast and Dragon's Breath are easy to predict, especially on fixed objective fights, and both moves are easily defeated by this crazy thing called lateral movement. If you spend any amount of time at a fixed location or walk backwards in a straight line, you kinda deserve it if her combo lands.

Chromie is only as good as the team in front of her and the team you're fighting allows her to be. Tracer, Zeratul, Nova, Butcher, Kerrigan, Muradin, Anub'arak, Greyman, Tyreal...so many heroes counter her and force her to choose safety talents over damage.

This all sounds good, except that she can spam her Q and she's going to hit people all game long without even aiming. And if cleanse is down, or god forbid you don't have cleanse on your team, she can/will instantly kill whichever hero she picks with her ultimate. Also her range is such that you can't even see her casting half the time. Also you can't see where here dragon's breath is going to land. I disagree with your opinion.

 

[jaundicejuice]

Isn't proto the highest ranked in this thread? Unless he was in a queue for ages it reckons he played with pretty high ranked / skill players.
Generally I agree with you and scoobs oversells her but Malf's root is also pretty op right now and should combine well with Chromie.
The enemy team should have won every immortal though.

That was less a direct comment on proto's match and more scoobs overselling the hero.

 

[scoobs]

Idk what I'm overselling, it cannot be argued that her kit is built around deleting Heroes and there is nothing fun about it. Nova got reworked for the exact same reason.

 

[Alur]

Have to agree with scoobs.

With the range increase, saying she only hits oblivious players is a bit disingenuous. You can react, and walk laterally, and whatever else, but the rate at which she fires out her Q's means she's going to be hitting people and chunking them regardless of the W.

As for her being easy to shut down by one of those counters, this is true, provided they can get back there to her and have support for the endeavor. After her latest buff I'm seeing that less and less. Some games you'll have her and she is literally shit upon as if she were a bot, but barring those instances, she seems to get the same amount of free reign as any other assassin due to how far back she can lob death from.

Maybe you've got some Chromie dodging and killing wizards at your MMR, but in diamond she's pretty universally held as obnoxious by most any team I've been on. Just not a fun hero to play against.

 

[protonium]

She deletes oblivious players. The wind up on both Sand Blast and Dragon's Breath are easy to predict, especially on fixed objective fights, and both moves are easily defeated by this crazy thing called lateral movement. If you spend any amount of time at a fixed location or walk backwards in a straight line, you kinda deserve it if her combo lands.

Chromie is only as good as the team in front of her and the team you're fighting allows her to be. Tracer, Zeratul, Nova, Butcher, Kerrigan, Muradin, Anub'arak, Greyman, Tyreal...so many heroes counter her and force her to choose safety talents over damage.

I have two issues with Chromie. First, she can land her combo off screen, which makes it hard to counter. Second, temporal loop and her combo instantly deletes any squishy. If she targets your support there's little to no counter. Without a well timed cleanse or ice block she can instantly turn a team fight into a 5v4. Granted, in a draft, you can try and counter her.

Edit: You guys beat me to it already.

Isn't proto the highest ranked in this thread? Unless he was in a queue for ages it reckons he played with pretty high ranked / skill players.
Generally I agree with you and scoobs oversells her but Malf's root is also pretty op right now and should combine well with Chromie.
The enemy team should have won every immortal though.

Nah man, I'm only 3700 QM / 3000 HL and that was a QM game.

 

[Familienoberhauptvogel]

You'd think she'd dominate at low ranks but I barely see her and whenever I do you know the drill.

I also rarely see her in GM streams like you see Trikslyr being weird every now and then but that's it.

So is she just being picked a lot at lower high rank?

 

[Alur]

I have two issues with Chromie. First, she can land her combo off screen, which makes it hard to counter. Second, temporal loop and her combo instantly deletes any squishy. If she targets your support there's little to no counter. Without a well timed cleanse or ice block she can instantly turn a team fight into a 5v4. Granted, in a draft, you can try and counter her.

Yeah, that's my issue. In a draft (or a competent one at least) you can counter her. The issue is (A) having a competent draft and (B) like 60% of the game is played in for funsies draft mode in unranked or in QM where the counter may or may not be RNG baked in.

Nah man, I'm only 3700 QM / 3000 HL and that was a QM game.

Damn breh. The resets have done you well. Last time I looked you were like 3500.

So is she just being picked a lot at lower high rank?

Dunno. Don't know that she's picked a lot anywhere, thankfully. If she was as popular as Nova she'd end up getting a rework I think. She's been in QM like crazy last week though. She might've been free then, not sure, but man it was obnoxious.