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Heroes of the Storm |OT2| Imitation is the sincerest form of flattery
- Thread starter Nirolak
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Even w/ a reduced healing hed still be a viable solo, like lets compare him to tyrande and tass who both work solo but benefit greatly from help (doesnt even have to be a support, etc, tyrael, and so on), if they are to touch his heal at all i wouldnt want it to be too heavyhanded, mainly just in a way where i can clearly and intuitively think and answer "do i want rehgar or monk here?". So its more rehgar doesnt heal as much as a pure healer -> i need to do less poor trades so my lack of a pure healer doesnt hurt me as much.
So with this line of thinking hybrids exist more like:
Tass provides huge single target mitigation, vision, waveclear, playmaking w/ force wall, and doesnt die, but has no aoe mitigation (unless you count lvl 7 which you could i guess), and no actual heal, no cc until 10 if you count that
Tyrande has a straightforward cc followup with synergistic dmg amp, can get vision, but provides a heal that is mainly useful if you can get it off multiple times in a fight and can die fairly easily w/ no escape until 13
Rehgar has healing options suitable for diff situations, and provides an aoe dmg amp, but his aoe heal is not as good as a pure healer, his burst heal has a delay, his w is mitigated by kiting and peel, and he has poor cc.
Like maybe hybrid is the wrong word, it's more like the support identities become clearer and some need a little help to raise their potential even higher
Monk has best aoe heal and great pick off synergy w/ cc or stitches, can be a good counter against something like single warrior muradin, is hard to kill esp after 13, but needs his team to clump for full value and has no cc
Like i want there to be meaningful and specific pros and cons for each support and for these to be pretty transparent
Since they arent changing qm i expect every new support to be able solo, but that doesnt mean they have to be great at it
So with this line of thinking hybrids exist more like:
Tass provides huge single target mitigation, vision, waveclear, playmaking w/ force wall, and doesnt die, but has no aoe mitigation (unless you count lvl 7 which you could i guess), and no actual heal, no cc until 10 if you count that
Tyrande has a straightforward cc followup with synergistic dmg amp, can get vision, but provides a heal that is mainly useful if you can get it off multiple times in a fight and can die fairly easily w/ no escape until 13
Rehgar has healing options suitable for diff situations, and provides an aoe dmg amp, but his aoe heal is not as good as a pure healer, his burst heal has a delay, his w is mitigated by kiting and peel, and he has poor cc.
Like maybe hybrid is the wrong word, it's more like the support identities become clearer and some need a little help to raise their potential even higher
Monk has best aoe heal and great pick off synergy w/ cc or stitches, can be a good counter against something like single warrior muradin, is hard to kill esp after 13, but needs his team to clump for full value and has no cc
Like i want there to be meaningful and specific pros and cons for each support and for these to be pretty transparent
Since they arent changing qm i expect every new support to be able solo, but that doesnt mean they have to be great at it
I didn't play him prior to the last patch. And last patch he had to take all chain heal talents, and couldn't take feral lunge, so he was just a healbot - because without those talents his heal was so anaemic it was just plain sad. Feral lunge is what makes him go into combat - it's an engage and it's decent damage especially for finishing someone. Without that he wouldn't be in melee.
to me he just feels like a variant on the Kharazim theme - a melee support character. I've seen Rehgars played without going into combat at the appropriate time, and it's a complete waste of the character. It's like Greymanes who don't go into combat when you can get a kill, or monks who never do melee dps. Yes, you can play that way, but it's not a good way of playing and doesn't utilise the character fully - and just like those two characters, playing Rehgar well depends on you knowing when it's safe to go in and when it isn't. He contributes just as much as Kharazim does in combat overall, so why wouldn't you put him in combat?
(I've played games where I've ended up going the totem build because it was just death to go into combat with them, which was fine although less bum biting which was sad).
Familienoberhauptvogel
Banned
Der Funke is spark, so Funkelchen or Fünkelchen would be spark(l)y imo. Moose is Elch so FunkElchen > Funk Moose.
Schlächter and Metzger are synonyms, Fleischhacker or Fleischhauer would also work. To kill an animal to be processed is called schlachten though.
Is it really possible to have meaningful differences between each hero though, when you're looking at 100+ heroes for these games? I'm honestly asking, I don't have enough experience in other MOBAs to say otherwise.
And is it a bad thing where two characters might be very similar, and it comes down to personal preference which you prefer - after all, there can't be THAT much design space for auto attacking ranged characters surely?
Again, am asking those who know more about other MOBAs honestly!
I dont mind rehgar sitting back (like ideally for me hes squishy enough to not stay in with impunity but needs to weave in and out to get z/e value, draw spells, w/e) as long as he isnt sitting back just healing, and the w changes that fundamentally. Like there doeant seem like a big difference between sitting back and pressing q vs. sitting back and pressing q and w, but it's a pretty big difference.
@maledict
You can have pretty differentiated heroes but as the game grows the meta becomes more focused, resulting in more "best in slot" style metas. So a meta in which aoe mitigation is king would limit the best supports for that particular era. However ive never seen a large moba w/ multiple maps, so that should really make things interesting
@maledict
You can have pretty differentiated heroes but as the game grows the meta becomes more focused, resulting in more "best in slot" style metas. So a meta in which aoe mitigation is king would limit the best supports for that particular era. However ive never seen a large moba w/ multiple maps, so that should really make things interesting
You are the best. Is ez game ez lyfe universal or can we get the German version?
Familienoberhauptvogel
Banned
You are the best. Is ez game ez lyfe universal or can we get the German version?
Leichtes Spiel leichtes Leben, sadly I don't know much slang nor german 1337.
I never learned for my spanish course but because I already had french and latin for multiple years at the time I still managed to do averagely bad.
I played with a TLV vs a Li Ming before the free week. I've never heard the death sound so much in a game. I shudder to think that now it will include people that don't play them often.
dats me!
Familienoberhauptvogel
Banned
are you sure it isn't Pech im Spiel Glück in der Liebe?
RumblingRosco
Member
TLV free week? I'm going Kael all god damn day in QM. It'll be a great stress reliever.
Familienoberhauptvogel
Banned
Lol Pech in german can be both unlucky and tar. German is weird.
It's a figure of speech you say when someone is unlucky in a game to cheer them up.
WonderRade
Member
Familienoberhauptvogel
Banned
At least let me get to 10 with her before that I'm already nearly lvl 9
RumblingRosco
Member
Nerf to Rehgar, nerf to Li-Ming, buff to Greymane, nerf to Sonya, turret scaling adjustments for Gazlowe.
That's my prediction.
That's my prediction.
Familienoberhauptvogel
Banned
Dat Stimpack + headstart advantage.
and higher winrate
Against Lunara teleport shields are amazing, just teleport to cancel out the damage. You miss out on a lot of damage, but can't deal any damage while you're dead and dominance against a murky is just easy mode.
Despite all the talk about Rehgar we had, I (selfishly and stupidly) hope they don't nerf him. These free wins have been nice after a month of QM shitshow. Now we win no matter what the comp is thanks to Mingus and Baegar (12-2 since patch with those two in a duo).
He's probably getting hit (even though I still haven't seen a tweet from Browder or post from a blue saying something - I could've missed that though). Maybe some tweaks to Ming and
I dunno where they go from there. Feel like most heroes in a good spot bar the same couple they seem determined not to touch.
Unrelated, but is there a reason I'm missing for Kharazim dropping 4.1%? Just the dominance of Rehgar?
He's probably getting hit (even though I still haven't seen a tweet from Browder or post from a blue saying something - I could've missed that though). Maybe some tweaks to Ming and
a huge buff to Sonya for Soka and
Unrelated, but is there a reason I'm missing for Kharazim dropping 4.1%? Just the dominance of Rehgar?
Familienoberhauptvogel
Banned
Shamelessly stolen from Reddit
Edit: the disintegrate upgrade at 20 is nasty af.
The Rehgar Effect said:
Edit: the disintegrate upgrade at 20 is nasty af.
I had this with 3 tanks, Azmodan, and me playing as Kharazim. Completely wrecked. Rehgar is incredible right now.
Absolutely. It does an insane amount of damage, moves super fast, gets really big, and pulls you in if you do manage to almost get away. Especially when you only see it at the last second from behind an obstacle, goodbye half of my health bar. Even in the early game, she has enough mana to spam it and out-lane most other heroes easily.
Familienoberhauptvogel
Banned
Been getting good with Li Ming, 50+ games in less than a week do that.
Dodging pyroblasts feels great as always. Like picking up teleport shield against bursty comps, let's me go into glass cannon at 13 still.
Dodging pyroblasts feels great as always. Like picking up teleport shield against bursty comps, let's me go into glass cannon at 13 still.
Fuck yeah bro
Dem plays doe. I bet they were salty.
Should be later tonight around 8:30 or 9 depending on how tired I am
Familienoberhauptvogel
Banned
Greedy fucks deserve nothing else, chasing me while their teammates were dying.
Critical Mass should only trigger when people die that were recently damaged by Li Ming, ky CD's were reset like twice from kills I don't think I participated in there.
RumblingRosco
Member
Familienoberhauptvogel
Banned
that monty python reference.
They've gotta give us some carbot portraits in game. And the stick horse.
Hey Blizzard, the Nexus is over here! From this article...
These things sound fun. We like fun. Can we have these fun things in our game too? Also some badass HOTS-esque skins there. And they did all this during the beta break...
...gives me a little more hope that we'll see the features we want sooner rather than later. Plz Blizz.
o shi--- OW is back
Hey Blizzard, the Nexus is over here! From this article...
Jeff Kaplan to Polygon said:
These things sound fun. We like fun. Can we have these fun things in our game too? Also some badass HOTS-esque skins there. And they did all this during the beta break...
...gives me a little more hope that we'll see the features we want sooner rather than later. Plz Blizz.
I'd disagree. Li-ming in particular is nova on steroids right now, and I think she actively needs nerfing in some respect. Same with Rehgar - love his new kit, but it's way too strong.
When faced with a choice between increasing 45 heroes power, or nerfing two, they should settle for nerfing two.
This is a fallacious way of thinking that's complete bullshit. You have to establish a line somewhere, and when people pop above it, you hammer them down.
This is based in people's issues with loss aversion- they hate things being taken away WAY more than the like being given things.
Agree w/ the overtuning, numbers, w/e, but id like for heroes to see similar relative power to lehgar w/ picks having more to do w/ specific kit differences. Loved what happened w/ the scaling changes, but wish it wasnt done across the board and instead on a case by case basis w/ the idea behind what the scaling changes were meant to do (more dangerous early game, less wiggleroom for mistakes, etc.)
I dont think it's fallacious, it's the design basis behind dota and id love to see it adapted to hots, not that i see it happening tho
I dont think it's fallacious, it's the design basis behind dota and id love to see it adapted to hots, not that i see it happening tho
Heroes are being scaled differently. Zagara's baseline stats are better than other heroes, but she doesn't scale as well. Lunara scales better than other heroes, which is why she gets scarier late game.
DOTA doesn't work for a game that's constantly evolving/in flux -they have a lot of very rigid things in place that make things work because their updates are large and infrequent.
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