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[Ketch]

Maybe you're just bad ketch. I'm going with that after seeing your Chen

Well true true. but on PTR I didn't have an auriel to not heal me, so there's that.

I thought iron fist was good even b4 buff
Is the brawl available on ptr atm?

I didn't try brawl, just did customs with randos. For some reason it wouldn't let me que up in anymode.

I ended up with like 55k damage on haunted mines. but the damage numbers doesn't really change my opinion on it.



edit: let me walk it back. DPS monk didn't feel any different to me then it did before.... and I feel like it was kinda bad before so

 

[scoobs]

I've watched HORSEPANTS completely destroy people on dps monk. I can't pull it off for the life of me, but I know it is possible. Move speed was the main reason the build didn't work, hoping its better than you think.

 

[brian!]

Oh yeah his dmg numbers wont be high like maybe 10k higher, it's for burst and stuff like beating down a boss or something

 

[Alavard]

Problems with PTR? I can log into the normal game, but on PTR I just get 'you were disconnected from Battle.net' errors.

 

[kirblar]

Problems with PTR? I can log into the normal game, but on PTR I just get 'you were disconnected from Battle.net' errors.

Ya

 

[Alur]

Since he's my best/favorite hero, I hope damage build is now at least viable in more situations than it was previously. Not like I'll get to play him, though, Milly already called it.

 

[Alavard]

Varian is apparently super bugged.

https://gfycat.com/FarflungOrneryDrake

He does no damage to shields if he doesn't take that Shattering Throw talent and just loops his first swing animation over and over.

I mean, sure, it's the PTR and they'll fix before release, but it's also hilarious.

 

[scoobs]

Seems like this PTR patch needed a little more time in the oven

 

[Alavard]

Seems like this PTR patch needed a little more time in the oven

Kharazim also agrees:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KPE9dzzgt2U&feature=youtu.be

 

[kirblar]

Judging by the subreddit, the Genji OW skin is the best thing they've ever done for the game.

 

[Alur]

We talked about it before, but it was curious...

Why hasn't there been more Overwatch ties to this game?

At their base foundation, (IMO) the games are quite similar. Pick your hero, claim objectives, kill the other team. The tools and the way it's presented are different, but part of why I love Overwatch is the fact that it is so similar to HOTS.

Tying the games together with exclusive skins/sprays/portraits seems like a real no brainer and much easier to get recurring overlap than a game like Starcraft or World of Warcraft.

It's a smart move. Even if it just boosts the playerbase for a bit and only 1/20th of those stick around, they'll still make some decent money off of those people.

 

[Familienoberhauptvogel]

Oh an Cris apparently got kicked in favour of Alex, dude can't catch a break.

 

[scoobs]

I don't think he's all that great, not surprised

 

[Familienoberhauptvogel]

He might not be world class but he's consistently a strong player and very dedicated to the game. He was also part of liquids strongest roster that beat mvp in asia.

 

[Turdburger]

Sundering is one of the best abilities in the game, it was probably a little too good. Its still one of the best abilities in the game.

It should be one of the best abilities in the game. Thrall is pretty shit outside of his heroics. Why not just buff Earthquake to its power level?

To me it seems like the feedback over the "stun meta" from 6 months back really got to Blizzard and now they're making lockdown so bad that chaining lockdowns to initiate a fight is basically unplayable.

I'm not really a fan of that. To me it lowers the skillcap, by making it harder to punish players who are out of position.

Sundering is basically worse than Powerslide at this point.

 

[Turdburger]

They want Cleanse gone. Expect more to lose it over time when possible.

I don't think they'll get rid of it entirely but I do think they want it gone from the level 7 talent tier. Nothing they can ever put at level 7 will match the power level of cleanse so it's best to bake it into a level 16 talent or something where they can put other talents that are powerful enough to give choices.

Cleanse just hogs the level 7 tier and it's pretty dumb so I like this direction.

 

[Familienoberhauptvogel]

By doing it gradually they are just dumping / elevating supports based on whether they have access to cleanse or not.

 

[kirblar]

By doing it gradually they are just dumping / elevating supports based on whether they have access to cleanse or not.

Auriel. So Dumpster Tier.

I'd actually expect Uther to just straight up lose it for the same reason Auriel doesn't have it- at 10 he has it as a Heroic.

It should be one of the best abilities in the game. Thrall is pretty shit outside of his heroics. Why not just buff Earthquake to its power level?

To me it seems like the feedback over the "stun meta" from 6 months back really got to Blizzard and now they're making lockdown so bad that chaining lockdowns to initiate a fight is basically unplayable.

I'm not really a fan of that. To me it lowers the skillcap, by making it harder to punish players who are out of position.

Sundering is basically worse than Powerslide at this point.

The meta changes were a big factor in why Blizzcon semis/finals were so much more entertaining than earlier stuff this year. Fights dragged out and it was a good thing.

 

[brian!]

it shifts stuff around but it's not like im gonna pick uther for cleanse when malf exists
oh wait bad example he has cleanse

 

[Familienoberhauptvogel]

Auriel. So Dumpster Tier.

Not all supports are created equal.

 

[BreezyLimbo]

What if thralls earthquake created unpassable terrain for opponents each tremor?

 

[Turdburger]

The meta changes were a big factor in why Blizzcon semis/finals were so much more entertaining than earlier stuff this year. Fights dragged out and it was a good thing.

Is that what made it better? Lunar Flare was kind of just replaced by Malf Roots and everyone was running Muradin/ETC. I think the preparation and level of play was just higher. Can't say I disagree though as the games were definitely really good

 

[kirblar]

Is that what made it better? Lunar Flare was kind of just replaced by Malf Roots and everyone was running Muradin/ETC. I think the preparation and level of play was just higher. Can't say I disagree though as the games were definitely really good

Fights not ending in seconds when someone gets stunlocked helped a ton.

 

[Familienoberhauptvogel]

Speaking about long fights C9 with their murky draft was a continuous fight until they won.

BW being top of the meta again feels good. I can even hit a couple precleanses now but just based on intuition I can't spot animation's at all.

 

[Milly79]

Speaking about long fights C9 with their murky draft was a continuous fight until they won.

BW being top of the meta again feels good. I can even hit a couple precleanses now but just based on intuition I can't spot animation's at all.

Oh the days of c9 :'(

 

[brian!]

Speaking about long fights C9 with their murky draft was a continuous fight until they won.

BW being top of the meta again feels good. I can even hit a couple precleanses now but just based on intuition I can't spot animation's at all.

yeah unless the animation is really ostentatious im usually hitting it by predicting stuff

lol you can hit the mvp button unlimited times in ptr

 

[scoobs]

It should be one of the best abilities in the game. Thrall is pretty shit outside of his heroics. Why not just buff Earthquake to its power level?

To me it seems like the feedback over the "stun meta" from 6 months back really got to Blizzard and now they're making lockdown so bad that chaining lockdowns to initiate a fight is basically unplayable.

I'm not really a fan of that. To me it lowers the skillcap, by making it harder to punish players who are out of position.

Sundering is basically worse than Powerslide at this point.

1. Nope, he isn't. He is the best solo laner in the game due to his poke and self sustain, rivaled only by Zagara.
2. Sundering is multiplicatively better than powerslide, because of its displacement, damage, and range. The stun is the icing on the top, its good because of its displacement first and foremost. It allows Thrall to get a free W > E combo every single time because of this, and is the BEST engage tool in the game, unquestionably so

 

[brian!]

they should make the brawl bo3

new brawl is unbalanced and weird but it's cool that it's a new idea

 

[Milly79]

Good stuff, Scoobs. But you forgot Chen.

 

[scoobs]

Good stuff, Scoobs. But you forgot Chen.

Fair point, Chen is definitely a top solo laner as well. But to say Thrall is bad outside of Sunder is just ridiculous and makes me think you don't actually play Thrall.

 

[Turdburger]

Nope, he isn't. He is the best solo laner in the game due to his poke and self sustain, rivaled only by Zagara.

Thrall was played 3 times in 55 games at Blizzcon. Chen was used as that kind of a lane hero if required. Thrall is just not a very good hero. HOTS only prioritizes laning like that on certain maps and even then it's not worth picking a bad hero for it. Chen is a better hero, so people picked Chen instead. Even Zagara wasn't high priority.

Sundering is multiplicatively better than powerslide, because of its displacement, damage, and range. The stun is the icing on the top, its good because of its displacement first and foremost. It allows Thrall to get a free W > E combo every single time because of this, and is the BEST engage tool in the game, unquestionably so

Powerslide now stuns for longer (1.25) and doesn't instantly displace, making it a more reliable setup for follow-up CC, has a 12 second cooldown vs. 80 second, also has damage and an effective displacement when you combine it with Face Melt, is buffed by talents (primarily the 16 talent), puts ETC in range to auto attack (further increasing its effective damage) and can be used as an escape.

Powerslide is way better at this point. Sundering is a joke of a Heroic now.

 

[Alavard]

Man, Varian has so many good talents. It's legitimately hard to give some of them up.

Even trying to build him as a full tank, the choices get somewhat hard for me.

Level 1: I'd love the extra slow on Lion's Maw, but I think both the others add too much more damage to give up. I think I prefer Overpower here, even when tanking - you're going to be relying on your W anyway, may as well get a lot more damage out of its use.

Level 4: Shield Wall is unquestionably the full tank talent, but damn, Warbringer is tempting. Basically a choice between huge mitigation for a bit more initiation/peel.

Level 7: Probably the one tier I don't really care for. I think you either have to go for Second Wind or Victory Rush, and one is probably mathematically just better (though I don't yet know which one).

Level 10: Obvious one if you're tanking - take Taunt.

Level 13: Banners! Probably either Ironforge to make yourself and teammates even tankier or Dalaran if you have some big AP allies. Probably Ironforge though.

Level 16: Probably Mortal Strike for most situations, but consider Shattering Throw for Tassadar, Zarya, Artanis, etc

Level 20: Vigilance seems okay, but might be great (maybe against fast AA heroes like Tracer make it really good?), Glory to the Alliance also seems really strong, but then so does Demoralizing Shout. Guess this one will depend on your comp and enemy comp.

Clearly Varian having a tough choice between his talents and lots of situational decisions is the point, and that seems to have been accomplished. I feel like his numbers are going to get tweaked a lot though, as some of it feels really out of whack.

 

[scoobs]

Thrall was played 3 times in 55 games at Blizzcon. Chen was used as that kind of a lane hero if required. He's not a very good hero. HOTS only prioritizes laning like that on certain maps and even then it's not worth picking a bad hero for it.



Powerslide now stuns for longer (1.25) and doesn't instantly displace, making it a more reliable setup for follow-up CC, has a 12 second cooldown vs. 80 second, also has a displacement when you combine it with Face Melt, is buffed by talents (primarily the 16 talent) puts ETC in range to auto attack and can be used as an escape.

Powerslide is way better at this point. Sundering is a joke of a Heroic now.

Ya I just completely disagree with you I guess. A .25 second nerf to the stun portion of a heroic that was used 99% of the time, will make it unusable poop tier garbagio I guess.

Powerslide is definitely good, and could use a nerf (as well as a few other things that make ETC basically god tier right now), but it doesn't make Sunder "bad" because the stun is shorter. Again, the displacement is what makes Sunder good. Now Earthquake seems like it will be pretty amazing, I see nothing wrong with any of this. Besides, ETC is a tank who is built around engagement. I don't see how that has anything to do with Thrall the melee assassin. How many other assassins have an engagement tool as good as Sunder right now, I'll wait...

I play Thrall a ton, and while he may not be OP as fuck like Samuro, he's one of the best melee assassins and is totally and completely viable in competitive play. I imagine Sunder will still be the better heroic, but Earthquake proc'ing Frosftwolf Resilience with each pulse (based on how many people he hits) is going to be pretty insane self sustain and CC so it might be kind of crazy good now.

And to your point that he wasn't played much at Blizzcon, Thrall is involved in 32.8% of Master League or better games with a 54% win rate, the only melee assassins who are higher are Samuro, and Alarak (which is kind of amazing to me, as he's at a 48% win rate)

 

[Turdburger]

Ya I just like.. completely disagree with you I guess. A .25 second nerf to a heroic that was used 99% of the time, will make it unusable poop tier garbagio I guess.

It was used 99% of the time because the other option was so bad. My point with Powerslide was that while Sundering is a good initiation ability, at this point it's not as good as Powerslide for that. It wasn't good enough to make Thrall picked consistently in games and it was his most useful skill.

Powerslide is definitely good, and could use a nerf (as well as a few other things that make ETC basically god tier right now), but it doesn't make Sunder "bad" because the stun is shorter. Again, the displacement is what makes Sunder good. Now Earthquake seems like it will be pretty amazing, I see nothing wrong with any of this.

I get you and I agree but I don't think they should nerf Powerslide. It's probably the easiest way to deal with the issue so that's probably what will happen. But I think they should buff other heroes to ETC's power level. Decide what heroes get those initiation abilities and balance them accordingly.

Thrall isn't great outside of Sundering, so I don't know why they had to nerf it in order to buff Earthquake. The reason I'm complaining is because it feels like Blizzard is only focused on this alarming statistic and made a change just to enforce talent pick parity rather than looking at Thrall's actual role in the metagame and where he's unique and making a change from there. Sundering is unique and is one of the few effective initiation abilities, and Thrall wasn't imbalanced because of it. Why dumpster it?

Changes like these just homogenize things, which is really irritating to me. /shrug

Earthquake proc'ing Frosftwolf Resilience with each pulse (based on how many people he hits) is going to be pretty insane self sustain and CC so it might be kind of crazy good now.

Yep. It might require some setup but it will be pretty crazy. But the game is deathbally enough that Sanctification can find constant effective use so I'm not worried about Earthquake not being consistent. On paper it looks way better than Sundering now simply because of the sustain.

 

[Alur]

The changes to Auto Select are pretty awesome. Sounds like you can basically make it toggle through your 8 favorite heroes. Might be a bit more fun to randomly queue in QM now for QM warriors.

 

[brian!]

earthquake demounts now too

 

[Familienoberhauptvogel]

I suck with Samuro. I just can't wrap my head around him. I just never feel like I have to burst to get anyone. QM matchmaking hasn't helped but that's a bad excuse.

Alarak and Guldan on the other I instantly understood and can actually do shit with.

Thrall sucks imo lategame he too easily becomes a liability that doesn't outweigh what he brings to the table.

 

[Milly79]

Scoobs, I'm with you bro.

#standwithscoobs #fuckthehaters #thrall4lyfe

 

[I'm an expert]

New khara feels really fuckin good

 

[scoobs]

Scoobs, I'm with you bro.

#standwithscoobs #fuckthehaters #thrall4lyfe

Thanks for the support bra

 

[Familienoberhauptvogel]

Lost 6 QM games straight. Lol all of them toxic and not even all of them were against our favour. I remember why I stopped playing QM but I was unable to lvl up guldan and alarak in unranked since I always had to fill healer or tank.

 

[scoobs]

Lost 6 QM games straight. Lol all of them toxic and not even all of them were against our favour. I remember why I stopped playing QM but I was unable to lvl up guldan and alarak in unranked since I always had to fill healer or tank.

Keep your head up, quickmatch is basically total luck on whether you get the competent teammates or the feeders. Better get both those heroes to 10 and get those sexy master skins. Two of my favorites

 

[Familienoberhauptvogel]

Now that I have both at 5 I can go back to ranked finally. I can lvl Rexxar later, ain't good with him anyway.

Lol new Zera can solo bosses.

 

[I'm an expert]

No clue what Reddit talkin bout with prot varian, dude has a huge hp pool and tanks like a champ. Charge to taunt is godlike. He just hits like a wet dehaka

 

[scoobs]

Day one reactions almost never tell the full story, so I'm just going to go ahead and ignore Reddit's opinions on him until I can get my hands on him.

Having said that, I've watched a few games of the dual wield build in action and that shit looks crazy OP

Also, if anyone here is a big Auriel fan I've come up with a build that I think actually somehow makes her even MORE fun to play than she already was. Give it a shot and let me know if you think its as fun as I do. Level 16 is kind of whatever works best for your team, but the rest of the talents are so fucking fun when you combine them all. You become a seriously potent assassin/healer combo and its all I've been playing for a few days now.

It's especially potent versus Samuro, as her quests are insanely easy to stack up against his clones. You'll have both quests done by level 10 & just destroy people

 

[Hydrophobic]

What if thralls earthquake created unpassable terrain for opponents each tremor?

Terrain coded as a minion, Valla is able to vault through it.


Having played another night with Medivh I think I really really like this guy. I think I'll be spamming him for a few days because I'm having a lot of fun. I especially like getting the second tier of the polymorph ult because people in quick play are terrible at spreading out.

 

[Alur]

Having played another night with Medivh I think I really really like this guy. I think I'll be spamming him for a few days because I'm having a lot of fun. I especially like getting the second tier of the polymorph ult because people in quick play are terrible at spreading out.

Watching it go off and spread on Samuro's clones is kind of hilarious.

 

[Familienoberhauptvogel]

Speaking off I hate how Mirror image works. I want immediate control of all images w/o having to disable the AI and hitting Q then 4

 

[Alur]

I hate the randomness of how it splits you without the ult. Sometimes it puts me where I want, sometimes it puts me backwards or to the side. I don't even know WTF the rhyme or reason is. It's probably something simple I missed, but it's annoying.

 

[Alavard]

I hate the randomness of how it splits you without the ult. Sometimes it puts me where I want, sometimes it puts me backwards or to the side. I don't even know WTF the rhyme or reason is. It's probably something simple I missed, but it's annoying.

Isn't it so that the enemy can't immediately figure out which one is real by your starting location?