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Heroes of the Storm |OT2| Imitation is the sincerest form of flattery
- Thread starter Nirolak
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Do we still have any TLV mains around in thread? I'm kind of curious how people are faring with them. They have the 3rd highest winrate in HL (56.4%) and 9th highest in QM (53.8%).
When I run into them typically people lose their minds about the early soak disadvantage we get into, but after their rework I find that my team almost always ends up getting a big team wipe late and finishing the game. Kind of like the soak doesn't make up for what they lost in the rework team fight wise. Thoughts?
When I run into them typically people lose their minds about the early soak disadvantage we get into, but after their rework I find that my team almost always ends up getting a big team wipe late and finishing the game. Kind of like the soak doesn't make up for what they lost in the rework team fight wise. Thoughts?
what he said
Familienoberhauptvogel
Banned
People don't know how to play around them and falter to coordinated vikings in each lane 3/4 man gank squad.
What are vikings winrate over gamelength?
Checked and at ~20 minutes it's at 53% afterwards it spikes again though. Also sample size Vikings, are usually on the low end of popularity.
What are vikings winrate over gamelength?
Checked and at ~20 minutes it's at 53% afterwards it spikes again though. Also sample size Vikings, are usually on the low end of popularity.
Yup. I haven't played them for a long ass time, but thats exactly how you lose games. You get a level lead, your team pisses it away.
They're my highest/best winrate hero, so yeah, I guess I'm a main lol.
I'm an expert
Formerly worldrevolution. The only reason I am nice to anyone else is to avoid being banned.
why the fuck do people play gazlowe in hero league? they make my life so hard.
Had a qm just now with gaz on my side (and no mages) and ming on theirs. Their ming was a real ming, had our cannons/gate down within the first 2 mins and pocket healer Tyrande. That plus gaz I thought we were done, but this was a real gaz. Jungled/split push like a mother. We were weaker in team fights but gaz basically kept them split all the time because they couldn't ignore. Was a great game and we won. Reminded me how weak chars played correctly can win from simple moba fundamentals. It was garden though, on a few other maps we probably would have got rekt.
why the fuck do people play gazlowe in hero league? they make my life so hard.
That's how I feel about Azmodan. I have never won a HL with an Azmodan. They are always sneaky about it too, choosing him without showing or communicating
Vikings seem pretty good in places that make sense for them
I like the mercenary build if you arent feeling proactive pre-7
Dont really get play again but apparently it's strong and i guess the ship is prtty weak in general
They are countered pretty easily in this meta tho (just kill em)
I like the mercenary build if you arent feeling proactive pre-7
Dont really get play again but apparently it's strong and i guess the ship is prtty weak in general
They are countered pretty easily in this meta tho (just kill em)
Familienoberhauptvogel
Banned
Astral Presence still alleviates any mana issues I have with Li Ming. All that's changed for me is taking dominance at 4 and that's almost helpful.
Another average MMR grind. People not waiting out UE, you wanna still move in if the fight's about an objective or if they just blew all their other heroics but if that's not the case just gtfo wait ~20 seconds and then fight with the knowledge they are now only 4.
Another average MMR grind. People not waiting out UE, you wanna still move in if the fight's about an objective or if they just blew all their other heroics but if that's not the case just gtfo wait ~20 seconds and then fight with the knowledge they are now only 4.
Blizzard still discussing an MMR reset before the new season begins and are curious what we think.
My thoughts are summed up by the first reply to his Tweet:
To me that's the biggest reason to do it. There's also lots of people who tossed away their QM or HL MMR by going HAM before they knew WTF they were doing who now do.
He seems concerned that the matchmaking will be terrible for a while. I suppose it would unless they weight it somehow based on your previous MMR. Doing that would mean a lot of people end up where they were at already, but the outlier cases like I talked about above (at least theoretically IMO) should be able to escape their MMR trap because of the increased gains of a reset. It's never been that you can't win if you are outclassing your competition due to increased knowledge/skill/whatever, it's just that by that point the gains are typically so small that it's a frustratingly uphill battle.
It's a fun heroic. Pretty hilarious in ARAM, though by picking it you are either (A) signaling your team comp is amazing and you win anyway or (B) probably conceding.
You lost me on the second part of your post. I get what you're saying, just not sure where it came from but I may have just missed the tie in? I'm confused
.
My thoughts are summed up by the first reply to his Tweet:
theonethief said:
To me that's the biggest reason to do it. There's also lots of people who tossed away their QM or HL MMR by going HAM before they knew WTF they were doing who now do.
He seems concerned that the matchmaking will be terrible for a while. I suppose it would unless they weight it somehow based on your previous MMR. Doing that would mean a lot of people end up where they were at already, but the outlier cases like I talked about above (at least theoretically IMO) should be able to escape their MMR trap because of the increased gains of a reset. It's never been that you can't win if you are outclassing your competition due to increased knowledge/skill/whatever, it's just that by that point the gains are typically so small that it's a frustratingly uphill battle.
It's a fun heroic. Pretty hilarious in ARAM, though by picking it you are either (A) signaling your team comp is amazing and you win anyway or (B) probably conceding.
You lost me on the second part of your post. I get what you're saying, just not sure where it came from but I may have just missed the tie in? I'm confused
.Yea I think MMR reset will fuck up matches for a bit and SO many people are gonna whine about losing their rank.
Well, technically they lose the rank regardless right? With the new season I mean. Just without the reset they'll be able to get back to within 5-10 ranks of it after placement and have less grind.
It'll be a bitch fest either way though you are right. Now that I'm out of MMR hell with my account it doesn't really affect me in the same way. I only have one account left that has a bracket sub diamond, and it's like 2250 QM and 3100 HL. It's kinda fun having it down there though when you wanna go kill some dudes lol
Dem comprehensions of the reading. I said "I get what you're saying", I just don't know where the Abathur talk came from. We were talking about TLV.
It'll be a bitch fest either way though you are right. Now that I'm out of MMR hell with my account it doesn't really affect me in the same way. I only have one account left that has a bracket sub diamond, and it's like 2250 QM and 3100 HL. It's kinda fun having it down there though when you wanna go kill some dudes lol
Dem comprehensions of the reading.
I said "I get what you're saying", I just don't know where the Abathur talk came from. We were talking about TLV.Just gonna touch on the waiting out part.
I think that's one thing that irritates me the most. Not waiting on Tranq, UE, stim done. Any others?
brickwalker0
Member
i would love a reset.
a couple friends of mine seem to be stuck in shit tier.
a couple friends of mine seem to be stuck in shit tier.
Familienoberhauptvogel
Banned
Running out of sanctification.
Dem comprehensions of the reading.
Just a continuation of some rants a couple days/weeks ago because it had just happened in a match. Nothing to do with Vikings.
To be specific my team would just go ham on the UE whenever it appeared no matter whether it was over a temple or an already lost enemy territory camp.
Evolution of Metal
Member
Could someone tell me about the population of this game?
I haven't played it for like a year, I am lvl 20 now. Every time I q up in the quick game it takes at least 3 minutes to find players.
I haven't played it for like a year, I am lvl 20 now. Every time I q up in the quick game it takes at least 3 minutes to find players.
There's a lot, but it's worth mentioning that a lot of the time if your team understands how to focus it's fine. Like if malf doesnt have ice block, can keel medic target, etc., abathur is kind of singular since his shit is on such a low timer and he just comes back to help after it's gone anyway, but in general if you can help it you dont really want to give them the momentum unless they are blowing it at an inoppurtune time.
Ults that ppl often waste imo are things like arthas, tychus, i guess archon tho no one picks it anymore
@alur woops i only read the quote
Yep it's awful. Silence is another one, instead of disengaging people eat the Wailing Arrow and then keep moving forward like it's a good idea.
Ah I gotcha. I know that feel. Nothing feels quite as bad as losing to Abathur (or Murky) IMO since both have heroics that can be easily baited out/countered.
Of course you don't. You also believe in seasoned marksman Illidan doe so iunno.
Population is good, appears to be still growing though slowly. Three minutes isn't too bad honestly depending on what time you're queuing.
Matchmaking changes implemented in December increased queue times a bit. It also struggles if you are on the high end or low end of MMR, and naturally, like most games it's a little slower if you're playing past 11 or midnight in your time zone. Shouldn't be any huge issue though.
Oh yeah silence is a big one, a lot of ppl act like they are stunned when they get hit by it too lol
@reset i dont care about it either way i think, like as long as infrastructure and mm is improved it's all good. Id rather they had an accurate ranking system or put something for ppl to interact w/ that's more mmr range than mmr number, like a league system, id be totally down for a reset for the sake of a better system. Itd definitely have to be done as a new "season" tho
In terms of hard reset vs. soft reset i prefer the latter by far i think
@reset i dont care about it either way i think, like as long as infrastructure and mm is improved it's all good. Id rather they had an accurate ranking system or put something for ppl to interact w/ that's more mmr range than mmr number, like a league system, id be totally down for a reset for the sake of a better system. Itd definitely have to be done as a new "season" tho
In terms of hard reset vs. soft reset i prefer the latter by far i think
Like itd be cool if ppl who say things like nah bro i hit 3300 on a smurf but my main is stuck at 2700 understood that it's pretty much the same thing skillwise and that reflected in the system via leagues, like grandmaster is ok and all but id rather the difference between 3500 and 3700 was phrased as "platinum" vs. "diamond" or something
Like something that gets closer to the differences in mmr range rather than misunderstood numbers, but in a way that's pretty understandable and clear
Like something that gets closer to the differences in mmr range rather than misunderstood numbers, but in a way that's pretty understandable and clear
I'll be happy just to see this fabled "season" and the changes that come with it. ¡Viva 2018!
I don't agree with that at all. People with that big of a gap are typically far more nuanced in their gameplay at that level. If you're talking like 1700 to 2200 or something, yeah, it's less pronounced. The farther up you go though the bigger a gap 100 or 200 MMR is in ability. Someone who is 3300 is typically noticeably better than me or the people I typically play with (such as you outclassing us, for example, though you are 3500ish right?)
If you're meaning that it's all Diamond, then yeah, but I think the better way to say that would be that it's all the same bracket. Not exactly the same skill level within that bracket hence games like League having tiers in each bracket.
Soon(TM)
I don't agree with that at all. People with that big of a gap are typically far more nuanced in their gameplay at that level. If you're talking like 1700 to 2200 or something, yeah, it's less pronounced. The farther up you go though the bigger a gap 100 or 200 MMR is in ability. Someone who is 3300 is typically noticeably better than me or the people I typically play with (such as you outclassing us, for example, though you are 3500ish right?)
If you're meaning that it's all Diamond, then yeah, but I think the better way to say that would be that it's all the same bracket. Not exactly the same skill level within that bracket hence games like League having tiers in each bracket.
In qm at least (my info is way old i havent played qm in a long time) the difference between high diamond and low master is completely negligible for example, i might have gotten the numbers wrong tho i dunno the hotslogs ranges anymore
Like it's more what is the difference between top5% and top 10% which has a pretty different population; not much at all imo
Disregard my specific examples tho, im just pulling those out of thin air i think you get what i mean though
Like leagies system has 5 tiers within a tier (plat v-i) and you can get at what the different placements mean for example though it's system also has many flaws. Like if you can easily move between the tiers itd more accurately indicate the difference of skill in ranges rather than a number based on population which doesnt indicate much at all
All of it is for nothing if mm doesnt get better ofc
Like it's more what is the difference between top5% and top 10% which has a pretty different population; not much at all imo
Disregard my specific examples tho, im just pulling those out of thin air i think you get what i mean though
Like leagies system has 5 tiers within a tier (plat v-i) and you can get at what the different placements mean for example though it's system also has many flaws. Like if you can easily move between the tiers itd more accurately indicate the difference of skill in ranges rather than a number based on population which doesnt indicate much at all
All of it is for nothing if mm doesnt get better ofc
I disagree man. The top of Diamond is 3181 right now. If you wanna s ay 3181 and up to like 3300 in low master are negligible then I can see that maybe. I think you're undervaluing the gap in skill a bit, but ok.
But the difference between 3k and 3300 is great. 2700 and 3300 is like a fucking gulf.
You're seeing it as the top 10% vs the top 5%, but the vast, vast majority are in the bottom 85% and bunched all up tightly. The gaps between everyone else moving up are way, way bigger when it comes to skill.
To me the gap between a 2700 player and 3300 player is the gap between a 2700 player and a lifetime 1700 silver player. There's no better place to see that than when you get into ARAM games because we cakewalk them and those guys are only like 2400 or 2200 (though some are lower). It's a big difference.
I'm pretty sure Erho's contempt for pretty much everyone is palpable. He's pretty snarky. So you're out on Jake and Zoia? What about the Coob?
But the difference between 3k and 3300 is great. 2700 and 3300 is like a fucking gulf.
You're seeing it as the top 10% vs the top 5%, but the vast, vast majority are in the bottom 85% and bunched all up tightly. The gaps between everyone else moving up are way, way bigger when it comes to skill.
To me the gap between a 2700 player and 3300 player is the gap between a 2700 player and a lifetime 1700 silver player. There's no better place to see that than when you get into ARAM games because we cakewalk them and those guys are only like 2400 or 2200 (though some are lower). It's a big difference.
I'm pretty sure Erho's contempt for pretty much everyone is palpable. He's pretty snarky. So you're out on Jake and Zoia? What about the Coob?
Was there a THH last week? Still hasn't shown up on iTunes for me so wondering if they cancelled as American regionals were happening?
Yah disregard my example i didnt research those numbers, i think in the example you give my thinking is more like
Is it difficult to plateau at 3300? Give that a tier. Whats the previous plateau, 3100? Make 3100-3300 a tier. Something like that, oversimplification tho. And then w/ leagues system of tiers within tiers, have it align w/ matchmaking where that tier can be matched w/ tiers above and below but in the context of a greater tier likw diamond or whatever
This way you can see more easily see the actual difference between top 25% vs. 30, and so on, and whether that difference is important enough to distinguish w/ a title or whatever.
Or maybe a simpler way of saying it is that a league system can show whether the difference between top 5% and top 8% (im assuming these are assigned different names, i dunno) is a revolving door or not and whether it really needs to be distinguished from each other
Is it difficult to plateau at 3300? Give that a tier. Whats the previous plateau, 3100? Make 3100-3300 a tier. Something like that, oversimplification tho. And then w/ leagues system of tiers within tiers, have it align w/ matchmaking where that tier can be matched w/ tiers above and below but in the context of a greater tier likw diamond or whatever
This way you can see more easily see the actual difference between top 25% vs. 30, and so on, and whether that difference is important enough to distinguish w/ a title or whatever.
Or maybe a simpler way of saying it is that a league system can show whether the difference between top 5% and top 8% (im assuming these are assigned different names, i dunno) is a revolving door or not and whether it really needs to be distinguished from each other
I did the same thing Maledict. Yeah it was cancelled apparently. Milly said they talked about maybe doing it on Thursday instead of Wednesday on the previous THH, but apparently they didn't. I mean, it's not like there were several rounds of qualifiers to discuss or another patch or anything of that kind of stuff. Nah.
I've not been impressed with it lately. And it pisses me off he takes so long to get it on iTunes when Schamtoo used to it have it by the next morning no problem. The vast majority of people listening are coming from there so...I don't get the delay.
That makes sense. I think 3000 is a plateau. Usually around 2600-2700 is a plateau. 2200ish seems to be one as well.
Or that. That works too.
Evolution of Metal
Member
Almost prime-time Europe, I would expect night/morning to be even worse. Still, 3-4mins per queue is a bit long.
Also... They still have braindead progression method that requires HUNDREDS OF GAMES to earn a single new hero. What is this logic, event LoL in 2009 was faster at earning new champions. Perhaps early progression and quest rewards give three heroes at a better rate, but it is a steep hill from there. I don't need all the heroes, I don't even need half... 10 heroes of my choice is probably enough for me. However, I would have to play for around 200+ games to get there.
10 euros per newer heroes is equally bad. New PC games cost 30-40 euros, they expect me to buy 3 heroes for the price of Division or Battleborn.
another example: 3900 (qm tho) was my plateau, like i was legit trying hard at the game at the time and playin well imo but i couldnt really break it. However at that mmr place it was definitely a matter of ppl trading places and i could go up like 20 places on the board by not playing at all on a given day. So while it might seem like i hit a limit it was also in the context of a lot of stuff like population, ppl liking to fuk around at the range, and it was really clear as well that a lot of ppl below me, like hundreds below me, were simply better than me, like id have no space to say that me having a higher number or belonging in a certain population meant that i was at all better than someone lower. So thats a range thing again, and im using a lower population example but i do think this exists in other places where the cutoff is marked by population percentage
Are you doing the quests? I am not a fan of their real money prices but the gold gain and gold cost is pretty freakin reasonable. As long as you're spending your gold somewhat efficiently and doing the quests and leveling the free rotation you should be able to get a largish stable of heroes in a reasonable time period. Do they have any free hero give aways for liking their Facebook or any other thing like that?
I dunno, 3 minutes is not a long queue time to me. We typically see about a minute and a half now.
Sounds like it's not the game for you though.
Definitely doesn't take hundreds of games to get a new hero FWIW. Between the daily quests and leveling rewards for your account you should be able to reach the 10 hero threshold for Hero League pretty reliably. Not to mention the free 100g every day now with the event. Doesn't hurt if you level each free week hero to 5 for the free 500g there either.
At 3900 (your example) though, there's what, a few thousand people period at that level? I mean it's definitely very slim population wise. That's about 200-300 MMR past the point where most pro players and streamers are bitching about lopsided games and bad matchmaking due to lack of equal level participants.
By the time you get down to Diamond range (3200 and below) you've got probably like six times the number of people. At 2700 you probably have double that amount, and below 2700 you have in the 50,000 + range per bracket.
EDIT: The population from Master 3900 to Master 3550 is all of...wait for it, wait for it...514 people in Quick Match. So yeah, it's a slim slim pool. That's why the matchmaking is so spotty at that level. And with the gap in skill of a player who is 3550 versus a 3900, it's no wonder they get pissed about playing against potatoes. Hell they used to get pulled into our games for a bit when MMRs were in the 3200 range. RIP.
Evolution of Metal
Member
If you are leveling heroes that you don't want to play = you are not really playing the game as you wish. Some quests are unlucky because I don't want to play any of specialist heroes that are on the free week. This daily play incentive with daily quests is also just another method to force players to grind the currency. These are the tricks to keep you playing as long as possible.
All I want to do is play with a few heroes of my choice to buy 5 more. All I am seeing is +30G for winning with Stiches and it makes me mad. To buy Witch Doctor (like him when it was free) I would have to win quite a few games... Shouldn't just playing the main game be the main source of income? Doing random quests, leveling other heroes and facebook likes should not be the main income of heroes.
Probably the same for me. It is unreasonable in my opinion.
Best heroes in each price tier go:
2k: raynor, muradin, etc
4K: Jaina, Johanna, Sonya, Tyreal, zagara, tassadar
7k: falstad, Diablo, stitches, rehgar, tyrande, uther
10k: kaelthas, liming, thrall, zeratul, lunara, Leoric, Kharazim, sylvanas.
Heroes whose prices should really be reduced already: thrall, kaelthas, Leoric, sylvanas, uther, rehgar
Uther rehgar sylvanas at 4K would make sense to me.
Leo, KT, thrall at 7k
Maybe switch KT and sylvanas.... Basing it off how complicated they are to play right.
Edit: the main source of owning what you want should be spending money. Like I said the real money prices are way too high here, but it sounds like you're saying you can't have everything you want for free (which you actually can if you do the things that earn gold). Maybe consider the cheaper heroes.
How much have you played the game? $10 is more then one hero is worth, but is it more then what you've gotten out of the game?
2k: raynor, muradin, etc
4K: Jaina, Johanna, Sonya, Tyreal, zagara, tassadar
7k: falstad, Diablo, stitches, rehgar, tyrande, uther
10k: kaelthas, liming, thrall, zeratul, lunara, Leoric, Kharazim, sylvanas.
Heroes whose prices should really be reduced already: thrall, kaelthas, Leoric, sylvanas, uther, rehgar
Uther rehgar sylvanas at 4K would make sense to me.
Leo, KT, thrall at 7k
Maybe switch KT and sylvanas.... Basing it off how complicated they are to play right.
Edit: the main source of owning what you want should be spending money. Like I said the real money prices are way too high here, but it sounds like you're saying you can't have everything you want for free (which you actually can if you do the things that earn gold). Maybe consider the cheaper heroes.
How much have you played the game? $10 is more then one hero is worth, but is it more then what you've gotten out of the game?
Fine Ham Abounds
Member
Man, I've never made it out of MMR 2200 for the entire life of the game
Dat willing QM Abathur stupidity
I'm excited for the fact they are looking into QM mechanics to avoid having the MM give you a team that will fail completely in either the laning or team fight phases. The possibility I may never get paired with a Nova in QM again has me frothing at the mouth to play more Abby
Dat willing QM Abathur stupidity
I'm excited for the fact they are looking into QM mechanics to avoid having the MM give you a team that will fail completely in either the laning or team fight phases. The possibility I may never get paired with a Nova in QM again has me frothing at the mouth to play more Abby
Familienoberhauptvogel
Banned
Prime time I didn't even wait 3 minutes queuing as Li Ming day 1 with her.
Right now it's almost instantaneous.
Right now it's almost instantaneous.
LOL, it's not a trick. That's the whole point. If you aren't playing they can't get your money. If you keep playing a small set number of heroes, you will burn out. It happens in every game. It's littered throughout the various iterations of this thread.
You're entitled to your opinion, of course, but that in no way behooves a gaming company. That would get old fast for me and doesn't benefit them in retaining you.
By diversifying you discover new heroes you like, new heroes you don't, and you learn about the game. By tying it to the gold gain they are (A) keeping you playing by keeping it fresh and (B) teaching you about a variety of heroes and situations.
You don't have to do the quests if you don't want. That's entirely your prerogative to get that extra gold or not. To act like you should get the gold anyway for just hammering down on Illidan and Kharazim or whatever small number of heroes, though, doesn't seem like a good argument to me.
Stimpacks won't really help you in that regard. Maybe with the exception of quickly leveling heroes to 5 for the 500g. The gold gain is pretty negligible. It's the bundles they want you to buy along with the sales. They know the prices are a little high for most players which is why they do so much bundling and do the sales (and did the month long half off). People feel like they are getting a deal.
Lanining and power spike considerations being put as a part of mm would be incredible.
I feel like a lot of stuff could be added to qm to make it less wacky, but in general theyd do a lot better and have less work just creating a blind pick or team builder mode for casual non-draft play (just use the custom game overlay) and being like fuk it just do youself
I feel like a lot of stuff could be added to qm to make it less wacky, but in general theyd do a lot better and have less work just creating a blind pick or team builder mode for casual non-draft play (just use the custom game overlay) and being like fuk it just do youself
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