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[Alur]

It doubles it, but you're going from like 25 or 35 a game (I forget the #) to like 50 or 70. I mean it does add up, but like Ketch said you have to play a lot.

I got the year long stim when it was on sale so it adds up in that long period of time but I get it for EXP not the gold. I'm just five heroes shy of having every hero at level 9 or above now.

 

[Ketch]

The gold to money ratio makes it more efficient to just straight buy the heroes if that's what you're worried about. The extra XP is what you get from stimpacks that can't be bought for money.

There's a post somewhere that breaks it down.

In short spend gold on the low gold cost heroes, real money on the 10k heroes... The higher the gold cost of the weekly sale hero the better the deal... And don't buy the week long stimpacks unless you play like 9 games per day... The short stimpack is like 11 games per day, I don't know about the huge stimpack..... And all of this is contingent on real money prices having not changed since I left and not factoring the real money value of XP.


Edit: the grind probably feels a LOT worse if you're not abusing the quest system and free gold from leveling heroes. It's like complaining about swimming being to hard but refusing to use your legs.

 

[Alur]

Bob Ross signs with Team Naventic.

RIP TSM. They would've been the perfect TSM team. Hopefully the org is good though. At least the logo isn't god awful.

 

[Evolution of Metal]

LOL, it's not a trick. That's the whole point. If you aren't playing they can't get your money. If you keep playing a small set number of heroes, you will burn out. It happens in every game. It's littered throughout the various iterations of this thread.

You're entitled to your opinion, of course, but that in no way behooves a gaming company. That would get old fast for me and doesn't benefit them in retaining you.

By diversifying you discover new heroes you like, new heroes you don't, and you learn about the game. By tying it to the gold gain they are (A) keeping you playing by keeping it fresh and (B) teaching you about a variety of heroes and situations.

I guess I am just a different type of player.

I am a "master of one" type of player. Throughout my thousands of hours in LoL I played with a very small champion pool completely ignoring ADC/MID roles. Once I reached Diamond it was better to dodge than play mid/adc/top. In most cases I spamed the same support champion in LoL unless it was banned/outclassed/picked/countered. I have one playstyle that I enjoy and I don't like getting out of my comfort zone. Here is the profile: http://www.lolking.net/summoner/eune/27247465#ranked-stats

I remember when I started ranked in S2 I was playing Alistar in most cases until I got Leona, then Leona all the way... In LoL, no such incentives to diversify playstyle etc., only daily win which is doable with every hero.

So in conclusion, HotS progression model is cancer for me. I am forced to either play the things I don't want, or win a hundred of games as Stitches to get the Witch Doctor/Diablo.

Or you could just buy them.

I would pay for the package that is similar to Smite/Overwatch: fixed price for all current and future heroes. For ranked games of course. I had to jump through quite a few heroes in LoL for ranked: either nerfed, new good heroes added, buffed making them must-pick. For a few weeks Soraka was broken, Janna, Lulu, Zyra, Annie, Leona etc. I am not advocating that LoL model is good, it is shit in retrospective but there wasn't much competition in 2011/2012.

 

[Ketch]

Or you could just buy them. If your gonna spend a lot of time on the game certainly it's worth less then 20 bucks or whatever those heroes cost. You've probably bought full priced games and then spend much less time on them


Like I'm not even trying to say you should spend money, or that those heroes are worth what they're asking. But to say that you're forced to do it this way which you can't stand is disingenuous. You are choosing to do it this way because your being stubborn about how you spend your time/money. No one is forcing you to grind 100s of games on stitches, you're doing it to yourself.


The counter argument is: they should just give me what I want for free.

 

[depward]

This is my first MOBA.

Level 22 since I started maybe a week and a half ago now.

I'm addicted. Hard.

I feel like I'm getting a really good grasp on mechanics. Definitely did a ton of research to learn about playstyles and really the general idea of MOBAs.

I've 8 heroes now. I'd recommend if you're looking to grow your hero base grab the digital starter bundle and then pop over to gamestop where they have the retail bundle @ 50% off.

I'm very much enjoying the feeling of crushing another team... and not so much the frustration of losing. But I guess this is MOBA life.

Will ask outloud: as a very new player to MOBAs, right now I have a 50% win rate across the ~65ish games I've played. Obviously some heroes have better rates than others. Is that a pretty good percentage to be at for a total and complete newb??

I'm really excited to try HL but obviously can't Feel free to friend me if you want to ever QM - clem#1277

 

[Ketch]

Yea that's really good for someone brand new o the genre. Lots of people lose a lot when they first start out.

 

[Alur]

I guess I am just a different type of player.

I am a "master of one" type of player.

So in conclusion, HotS progression model is cancer for me. I am forced to either play the things I don't want, or win a hundred of games as Stitches to get the Witch Doctor/Diablo.

You should just buy those two then maybe. Diablo can be had for super cheap with a skin on eBay or a site like G2A.

 

[Familienoberhauptvogel]

Wouldn't even a master of one player need to play the other heroes to be better at playing against them?

 

[brian!]

Yeah the way gold is given out isnt really conducive with a sticking to one type style unfortunately, like im feeling the gold bern atm and i like to play as many different things as i can

 

[Alur]

I'm very much enjoying the feeling of crushing another team... and not so much the frustration of losing. But I guess this is MOBA life.

It is. In some ways it feels worse in HOTS because you could have the game of your life and someone else can throw it right out from under you. Them's the breaks though. It's still pretty fun the majority of the time.

Will ask outloud: as a very new player to MOBAs, right now I have a 50% win rate across the ~65ish games I've played. Obviously some heroes have better rates than others. Is that a pretty good percentage to be at for a total and complete newb?

Yep, you are doing fine. What heroes have you been maining?

Wouldn't even a master of one player need to play the other heroes to be better at playing against them?

That was my argument. That's what we always tell new players, at any rate, when they ask what to do to maximize gold and learn. Teaches you a bit and it's quick and you get dem free monies.

 

[Evolution of Metal]

Wouldn't even a master of one player need to play the other heroes to be better at playing against them?

Anyone in League would tell you the complete opposite: Spam your hero and you will climb the ladder. Thresh/Morgana/Leona mostly 24/7 and that got me to the Master Tier, that with a pre-made ADC friend because I cannot stand no communication in bot lane. Sometimes Riot destroys champions (Zyra, Sona), sometimes they force you into playing Janna/Soraka/Annie for one or two patches. I have never played at least 1/3 of the heroes, 1/3 only a few times/ARAM. Playing a champion once in SR or Aram doesn't really teach you anything other than obvious that can be learned playing against that champion.

Clearly you cannot play just one hero in League, but spamming your own role + a few main heroes is a way to go in Ranked.

I couldn't find any Diablo bundle in G2A/Kinguin. I found it on ebay for $9 for a hero+skin which is too much. If a Hero was 3$, then maybe I would get it... All of that shop should be 50% as a regular price. Otherwise I can probably get some currency out of account leveling and maybe trying a new hero sometimes.

 

[Alur]

re: BRFC signing with Naventic there's an interesting part in a Daily Dot article about them:

The players ultimately chose Team Naventic because of the support being offered. And while the exact terms of the agreement were not disclosed, BRFC has been signed until the end of the year. The team’s manager Pat “Tazza” Yiu tells the Daily Dot that Naventic provided a “strong incentive package” to keep the team motivated throughout 2016. Naventic co-owner Jack “Vandy” Frierson added that “they’re getting a pretty comfortable pay,” which is one of the reasons they decided to sign with Naventic over the two League Championship Series orgs that gave them offers.

I would love to know who those two LCS orgs were. I hope this new org doesn't fly-by-night them in the same way Murloc Geniuses' old org did. I forgot the name of it.

I couldn't find any Diablo bundle in G2A/Kinguin. I found it on ebay for $9 for a hero+skin which is too much. If a Hero was 3$, then maybe I would get it... All of that shop should be 50% as a regular price. Otherwise I can probably get some currency out of account leveling and maybe trying a new hero sometimes.

Diablo bundle was a card/code. They are probably running dry so the price is up. It used to be like $4 or $5. And shop was 50% for the end of November and all of December. Black Friday forever.

 

[Milly79]

McinW

Am I doing it right, Alur?

 

[Ketch]

in case you didn't know already if you get just the skin it also unlocks the hero.


I agree that if you're playing HL in order to climb the ladder you should stick to 1-3 heroes in your preferred role then a few extras to fill in when you don't get to draft what you want. When I made the most progress I was only playing KT, zera, valla, sylvanas, Leo, and malf or rehgar. And then you can prioritize what heroes you want in each specific instance. I.e. If I get first pick then I'm going KT. Or if they get KT I'm going zera.

But in QM just get everybody to five while also doing the quests to maximize your gold gain to get the heroes you want. The the free rotation is huge now and it doesn't take long to hit five. 5 games maybe 6? That's like 3hrs? If you do a quest at the same time that's 800+ gold. And this might be a surprise but most of the heroes are fun, even the shitty ones... Just don't take it so seriously, no need to torture yourself.

 

[Alur]

McinW

Am I doing it right, Alur?

got sumtin 4 u bb

Spoiler

cause dats the only game we'll ever play 2gether agin

 

[brian!]

It makes more sense in league for sure due in part to laning being more of a thing and early game is more specialized. There's no problem in sticking w/ a type in heroes, just that ur gold gain gonna suk. I wouldnt suggest going too ham w/ trying to get good in the beginning, chances are you'll be fine once you understand the differences between league and hots and in general the skill level in hots is quite low in comparison

Oh also im not really familiar w/ hero league right now (only mode w/ a semblence of drafting atm), so i dunno what the success rate of calling out roles in the lobby is, but a lot of the roles in heroes can be doubled up depending on the conp so you should be able to get the role you want most of the time

 

[Alur]

To quote a famous HOTSGAF poster whose identity must be kept a secret, "no one here's going pro". And yeah, HOTS skill level and investment to get good is def lower.

 

[brian!]

Tbh tho id say master league players have a pretty decent chance, if going pro was solely based off of being good at the game, lots of pros in na at least peaked at low diamond in league

Though ofc they are different games

 

[Familienoberhauptvogel]

Awful name for BRFC

Li Ming down to a reasonable 51 something % in a day. She's not handing out free wins anymore, though I don't personally feel her all that worse.

 

[brian!]

The point is fair about more well known orgs probably unable to provide the attention they want, tsm prtty much doesnt pay attention to their smite and cs team

 

[Milly79]

got sumtin 4 u bb

Spoiler

cause dats the only game we'll ever play 2gether agin

Spoiler

2 bad u don't have access huehue

 

[depward]

Yep, you are doing fine. What heroes have you been maining?

I started with support because I wanted to get a feel for the game and flow. Being new to the genre, it's nice to be able to support and see how diff classes should be played.

I'd say I "main" Malfurion but also like Li Li. I like Malf due to his rooting and being able to specify who I really want to heal.

Raynor is, to me, a stupid simple hero. So I do pretty well with him

ETC is probably my most comfortable warrior. Tried a couple others but didn't find them as fun as ETC.

And lately I've found some really great success with Kharazim.

Also recently tried and have liked Tyrael.

 

[Ketch]

I love all those heroes except li li

 

[Milly79]

Hey, Malf was my first main too.

Malf bros.

Have a pic of Malf.

 

[depward]

MALF BROS

Thanks for the pic. Mucho appreciated!

 

[Ketch]

Malf gets all the ladies. Just ask his brother.

 

[Alur]

I'm pretty sure Malf gets em mainly cause his brother went to school for Seasoned Marksman but he's blind so chicks were like:

 

[Familienoberhauptvogel]

770k XP away from getting Li Ming to 10.

 

[Milly79]

770k XP away from getting Li Ming to 10.

Already there

 

[brian!]

pretty into nvt_ergo, hope it picks up as a meme

 

[Lyng]

in case you didn't know already if you get just the skin it also unlocks the hero.

Wait what?

 

[Alur]

Wait what?

It just works with the Ronin Zeratul skin in the starter pack AFAIK. Will give you the hero too when you put in the skin code.

The original codes they gave out are skin + hero all in one.

 

[Ketch]

if you got like kaiju diablo skin and don't own the hero doesn't using the skin also give you the hero? I didn't think it was specific to that one zera skin. could be wrong though, i never did it myself.


after getting li ming to 5, I would say that it doesn't feel like you can just rub your face on the key board to win, and she's pretty fun to play with all the jukes and dodges you can do... but she's still too hard to kill for what she can do. Like at least with KT someone could play a zera or nova and you'd play the game in fear... li ming is like yolo whatever I'll kill you before you kill me and get all my life back and shit haha.

imagine if nova had this blink.


they should maybe slightly increase the distance but then double the cooldown... maybe more. I don't know. or they could just go ahead and reduce her damage vs minions and monsters... that would really screw her though like she's already not great in lane, and if they made it worse then she might end up like nova with no utility outside of killing heroes.

 

[Alur]

if you got like kaiju diablo skin and don't own the hero doesn't using the skin also give you the hero? I didn't think it was specific to that one zera skin. could be wrong though, i never did it myself.

To my knowledge Ronin Zeratul is the only skin to have a separate code. The Kaijo Diablo skin has the hero built into it as a bundle, as do the Muradin/Malfurion/whoever the other one or two were.

but she's still too hard to kill for what she can do. Like at least with KT someone could play a zera or nova and you'd play the game in fear... li ming is like yolo whatever I'll kill you before you kill me and get all my life back and shit haha.

Agreed to some extent. I haven't gotten to see much KT since the nerf, but pre-Arcane Barrier nerf I still felt he was the more egregious of the two with survivability. For me it's more I feel like both of them live/getaway way too easy compared to how much damage they do versus their other dps counterparts, or at least I felt that way pre-patch. We'll see in a week or so how it feels now I guess.

I've actually seen quite a few Li-Mings get roflstomped by SA Zeratul. The Zeratul dies a decent amount as well to whoever else is around due to the burst of Ming, but it's a good trade when you can give up Z for Li.

 

[kirblar]

Tyrael is way too obtuse right now for low level players. Badly needs the "Warrior/support" classification to make sense.Aside from his trait being horrible and unfun, his talents make absolutely no sense and there often aren't good/fun options. Taking Regen Master at L1 because everything else is poop? Searing attacks? Why are these things happening?

-Me on Twitter re: Tyrael. If I'm missing something let me know.

 

[Ketch]

I guess I was specifically thinking of the flamethrower days.

regen master or smite upgrade at 1... I've always thought of tyreal as a bit of bruiser. He does pretty decent damage on the back line and battle momentum is OP on him.

and yea his trait is like the worst trait in the game besides maybe tychus

 

[kirblar]

Tychus is likely going to be rebuilt as an AA-focused hero (hence the tank-buster thing), so his should at least make waaaay more sense in context.

 

[Ketch]

but it's still like: "has a gun"

I guess it's kind of similar to raynor's trait but at least that gives him vision as well.

 

[Familienoberhauptvogel]

Already there

Well I'm a no stimpack scrub with no friends.

I really like Tyrael being a pseudo support, favourite warrior.

 

[Milly79]

Well I'm a no stimpack scrub with no friends.

I really like Tyrael being a pseudo support, favourite warrior.

That sounds really depressing

Piggy bank and ringmasters pride coming in next week

Butchers beast and marshalls outsider going bye

 

[brian!]

Love tyrael, he feels straightforward to me, except ppl keep picking the regen talent at 13 instead of imposing stop doing that ppl

Im also basically the only one ok w/ his trait too

 

[Milly79]

To sum it up Brian

You're pretty weird

 

[brian!]

I mean i get why ppl dont like it, it's always been pretty useful for me if you're not getting caught out all the time

The unfortunate thing about tyrael atm is that his early game is a lot more difficult than other warrior picks, even more now w/ building changes, and early game is really important atm

If i had to criticize a warrior passive (im basically cool w/ all of them), id probably pick something like stitches or anub

I dont even know what sonya's is, if it's autos build rage thats like a greymane level passive

 

[Familienoberhauptvogel]

That sounds really depressing

Idk better than to have to tell your brother he sucks at Raynor.

Spoiler

he does.

Sonya's passive is getting fury from getting hurt IIRC

 

[brian!]

That's slightly less offensive

 

[Maledict]

I mean i get why ppl dont like it, it's always been pretty useful for me if you're not getting caught out all the time

The unfortunate thing about tyrael atm is that his early game is a lot more difficult than other warrior picks, even more now w/ building changes, and early game is really important atm

If i had to criticize a warrior passive (im basically cool w/ all of them), id probably pick something like stitches or anub

I dont even know what sonya's is, if it's autos build rage thats like a greymane level passive

Tyrael used to be so much better early on in the laning phase. He's always had massive mana problems, but I'd normally take the Smite damage talent at 1 and be quite good at bullying my lane. Nowadays he feels utterly anemic early on, and almost anyone beats him head to head.

He also suffers from the fact his kit and talents feel very unimpactful. Holy Ground is amazing, but outside of that you generally end up taking a bunch of dumb passive talents that don't do much. Eldruin's Might is superb, but Smite *really* feels like it's missing something now and the shield is just a shield. If Smite slowed enemies or something it would be much better.

(Also, he needs more reasons to take Judgement. Still think that's one of the best feeling abilities in the game, screaming across the screen to deliver the fist of justice).

 

[Maledict]

Idk better than to have to tell your brother he sucks at Raynor.

Spoiler

he does.

Sonya's passive is getting fury from getting hurt IIRC

Think it's a bit more than that isn't it? HEr passive is that she uses Fury rather than mana, and gains Fury from taking damage or dealing auto attack damage or from abilities. In addition, she moves 10% faster for a few seconds whenever she uses an ability?

 

[brian!]

Oh yeah the movespeed i forgot about that, that one is pretty good

Yeah tyrael was prtty sweet before scaling at most stages of the game

If her passive was "uses fury" thatd be pretty egregious but there is actually a decent amount of heroes that just have really low effort passives

What is tychus's passive anyway, i played him the most when i started but never looked at it

Oh wow it is literally his gun winds up, i guess we are lucky leoric's wasnt "his autos are slow"

@tyrael e, i can see ppl thinking it feels underwhelming but that micro-endorphin rush you get when you speed ppl up with it is amazing to me

 

[Maledict]

Older heroes really suffer from lack lustre traits. Compare Nazeebo to Lunara, for example - he has three of talents that play off his trait, one of which is mandatory, the other two are pretty poor. Lunara on the other hand is built entirely around her trait, with multiple talents and abilities that key off it. Their design of heroes has come on in leaps and bounds since the early Alpha.

RE Tyrael, it honestly feels like they just need to bite the bullet, make half of his talents baseline in his kit and then rebuild his talents based on the role they want for him - either as a support warrior or an engage warrior. His talent trees are full of utterly garbage talents that do very little (shield on death explosion, damage less abilities on death, etc etc). Make some of that baseline:

- When he dies, his explosion should also shield allies
- Talents for his shield will also affect his allies
- He can use abilities when dead but they deal no damage

And then build the trees so you either go support (Stronger shield, durability, peeling skills) or engage (Holy Ground, better teleport, slows). That gives him two solid roles and a much more interesting kit, and at least makes his trait more useful and removes all the stupid talents he has for it.