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[Alcibiades]

If Toshiba did subsidize players, it was only the 1st gen HD-A1 variety (and I think even they denied that was the case).

Now Toshiba has $500 and $1000 players in the market, neither of which is subsidized. Both are getting great word of mouth online and apparantly Toshiba shipped a ton at the end of January.

If manufacturers decide to join HD DVD, they can price according to what market their player is aimed at and their players will no doubt compete in that space. If manufacturers aren't afraid of selling against a $500 PS3, I don't think $300 Chinese players would be a problem if they provided a reason to spend the cash on their players.

 

[DarkJediKnight]

If Toshiba did subsidize players, it was only the 1st gen HD-A1 variety (and I think even they denied that was the case).

Now Toshiba has $500 and $1000 players in the market, neither of which is subsidized. Both are getting great word of mouth online and apparantly Toshiba shipped a ton at the end of January.

If manufacturers decide to join HD DVD, they can price according to what market their player is aimed at and their players will no doubt compete in that space. If manufacturers aren't afraid of selling against a $500 PS3, I don't think $300 Chinese players would be a problem if they provided a reason to spend the cash on their players.

Yes, you're right about the new Toshibas, they're not subsidized. I was actually thinking about the A1. The A2 loses some functions like analong outs to save on the costs I think.

The problem is, perception is everything. If the Chinese players are introduced to big retailers, and one has to assume these will be just barebones players with no HDi capabilities etc.. But just because they do occupy the same same space as a Sony or Toshiba, the pressure would be to bring down the prices artificially regardless.

We'll see. It's a different marketing strategy and I think it really is Toshiba's only option at the moment. Can it work. Maybe. The thing is, the HD formats were designed to make money since DVD players have become so cheap that the profit margins just aren't there anymore.

 

[Ignatz Mouse]

Until we hear announcements, I don't think the Chinese players are much of a factor. And even then, I think it's the software that's selling the format, not the player cost. That's why HD-DVD was so good and did well it's first year-- it had the better software (and still does, until those big name BD releases get rolling).

What HD-DVD needs is an announcement of exclusivity of another studio, or else the de facto version (as they have with WB) along with some big-name releases.

 

[TheJesusFactor]

Everyone keep saying the that PS3 will win the Blu-ray market. Yet, people don't see why the $199 HD-DVD will win out against a $499 Blu-ray/gamesystem. Right now the Toshiba A2 can be had for $350. The first gen A1 is going for $299. So is $199 at the end of this year that hard to believe, I don't think so. I also own a Shinco from China, I had to use it when my Sony DVD player broke down. Who would've figure!:lol :lol :lol

 

[Ignatz Mouse]

TJF: What will win the war is the sales of software. The PS3 has driven a lot of software sales, by cleverly getting a BD player into the hands of people who are willing to spend money. Perhaps at the cost of the PS3's success as a games machine, but nonethless, it sold a lot and those people bought BDs.

I'm not arguing hypotheticals, just what's occurred.

I don't think those $200 players are going to be nearly as attractive as the PS3 was/is. I could be wrong. And again, we need soemting more concrete, like seeing them in stores or a ship date or even a brand name to judge.

 

[TAJ]

The problem is, perception is everything. If the Chinese players are introduced to big retailers, and one has to assume these will be just barebones players with no HDi capabilities etc.. But just because they do occupy the same same space as a Sony or Toshiba, the pressure would be to bring down the prices artificially regardless.

If a player doesn't have full HDi support, it can't carry the HDDVD logo, I thought?

 

[TheJesusFactor]

TJF: What will win the war is the sales of software. The PS3 has driven a lot of software sales, by cleverly getting a BD player into the hands of people who are willing to spend money. Perhaps at the cost of the PS3's success as a games machine, but nonethless, it sold a lot and those people bought BDs.

I'm not arguing hypotheticals, just what's occurred.

I don't think those $200 players are going to be nearly as attractive as the PS3 was/is. I could be wrong. And again, we need soemting more concrete, like seeing them in stores or a ship date or even a brand name to judge.

I think one of the reason the Wii is more popular than a PS3 is due to price. We have $250 vs. $499. Even if the PS3 had a Wii controller, I doubt you will get the Wii popularity due to the high cost of entry.

If a player doesn't have full HDi support, it can't carry the HDDVD logo, I thought?

You are correct sir, DVD forum requires company to follow the complete HD-DVD standard. So these China systems are fully equipped.

 

[TAJ]

TJF: What will win the war is the sales of software. The PS3 has driven a lot of software sales, by cleverly getting a BD player into the hands of people who are willing to spend money. Perhaps at the cost of the PS3's success as a games machine, but nonethless, it sold a lot and those people bought BDs.

I'm not arguing hypotheticals, just what's occurred.

I don't think those $200 players are going to be nearly as attractive as the PS3 was/is. I could be wrong. And again, we need soemting more concrete, like seeing them in stores or a ship date or even a brand name to judge.

DVD-Video players had hit the $200 mark by the time PS2 launched in NA, and PS2 was basically not a factor in DVD's success in NA. When the standalone players are really cheap, you're not going to see people with little interest in games buying PS3 for BRD.
Also, people aren't going to buy the discs if they don't have a player. And, A LOT more people will spend $19.99 on a movie than will spend $500 on a player.

 

[Ignatz Mouse]

DVD-Video players had hit the $200 mark by the time PS2 launched in NA, and PS2 was basically not a factor in DVD's success in NA. When the standalone players are really cheap, you're not going to see people with little interest in games buying PS3 for BRD.

???

Yeah, but what does that have to do with what I said? Or are you saying that cheap HD-DVD will make the PS3 moot as a BD player? Becuase that's already not true. HD-DVD can be had for cheaper than a PS3.

Again, it's software that will sell these formats. Great early software got HD-DVD ahead of BD, and BD is now catching up/caught up based on ... much better software. Note that BD didn't magincally take over in December. BD disc releases sucked in December.

 

[GeMiNii]

This whole debate reminds me so much of the Beta vs. VHS battle it's hilarious. Punters are carrying the formats for exactly the same reasons they did back then, price vs. technology. In the end of course price ALWAYS wins once products become commodities, a lesson for this generation to learn.

 

[TAJ]

???

Yeah, but what does that have to do with what I said? Or are you saying that cheap HD-DVD will make the PS3 moot as a BD player? Becuase that's already not true. HD-DVD can be had for cheaper than a PS3.

I'm not sure most people know how cheap players really are. Places where they're really visible, like Best Buy, have always sold them for $500 and up. But more importantly, the difference between standalone prices and PS3's price is still small enough for PS3 to be considered a good value by people who are into both games and HD video.

 

[TAJ]

This whole debate reminds me so much of the Beta vs. VHS battle it's hilarious. Punters are carrying the formats for exactly the same reasons they did back then, price vs. technology. In the end of course price ALWAYS wins once products become commodities, a lesson for this generation to learn.

If that's ALWAYS true, then EVD is going to kill both BRD and HDDVD, I guess?

 

[GeMiNii]

Can't imagine any disc format "winning" once direct distribution infrastructure is in place and working well. Physical formats simply can't compete on a price basis.

 

[XMonkey]

Can't imagine any disc format "winning" once direct distribution infrastructure is in place and working well. Physical formats simply can't compete on a price basis.

This won't happen anytime soon.

 

[TAJ]

Can't imagine any disc format "winning" once direct distribution infrastructure is in place and working well. Physical formats simply can't compete on a price basis.

Ugh... my nightmare scenario... Shit quality for about what we're paying now for great quality. Thankfully, physical formats are pretty darned cheap to press and package, even the new ones, and people still tend to see more value in a physical product.

 

[DarkJediKnight]

Can't imagine any disc format "winning" once direct distribution infrastructure is in place and working well. Physical formats simply can't compete on a price basis.

You can't even download DVD quality movies without leaving your computer on all night, let alone HD. There will ALWAYS be a hard-copy available because studios want to make money. They will cripple downloads to make sure of it.

 

[TheJesusFactor]

Physical media gives you true ownership. Meaning you can sell it on ebay or trade it with a friend. It also easy to bring over to a friend's house unlike downloads (think Wii). Hence, physical media will not go away, unless downloads are dirt cheap. I doubt it. Best solution is to rip your media onto a HDD and keep the physical media in a safe place. Its probably faster than waiting for a download.

If that's ALWAYS true, then EVD is going to kill both BRD and HDDVD, I guess?

That is why it will win in China, even if the government was not involved.

 

[DarienA]

Can't imagine any disc format "winning" once direct distribution infrastructure is in place and working well. Physical formats simply can't compete on a price basis.

People always pulls this out... like we're right on the cusp of this happening....

 

[ManaByte]

Ugh... my nightmare scenario... Shit quality for about what we're paying now for great quality. Thankfully, physical formats are pretty darned cheap to press and package, even the new ones, and people still tend to see more value in a physical product.

I don't know. Most iTunes movies are $10 and in 720p. Not bad for $10.

 

[wasting]

:lol i love highdefdigest's new bottom line for usual suspects review. imo alot more bluray releases should have gotten that.

http://bluray.highdefdigest.com/usualsuspects.html

 

[DarkJediKnight]

Those who kept asking about Rambo, here's a review. That means go out and buy NOW!

http://www.upcomingdiscs.com/dvd_review.php?id=6619&rtype=disc_type&rcrit=bluray

 

[jjasper]

Those who kept asking about Rambo, here's a review. That means go out and buy NOW!

http://www.upcomingdiscs.com/dvd_review.php?id=6619&rtype=disc_type&rcrit=bluray

Yeah I think I am going to go pick it up today got my rewards points in the mail yesterday so $5 dollars off, woot!

 

[gkryhewy]

I don't know. Most iTunes movies are $10 and in 720p. Not bad for $10.

Really? I didn't think any were 720p, at least not yet...

 

[chriskzoo]

Everyone keep saying the that PS3 will win the Blu-ray market. Yet, people don't see why the $199 HD-DVD will win out against a $499 Blu-ray/gamesystem.

Flamebait, but it's not a $199 HD-DVD player, it's $199 in addition to a $400 game system. Apples for Apples, the 20GB PS3 is a better deal for hi-def movies than the 360 combo.

 

[gkryhewy]

Flamebait, but it's not a $199 HD-DVD player, it's $199 in addition to a $400 game system.

??? Recent posts have been referring to $200 off-brand standalone players, not the 360 drive.

 

[DarienA]

??? Recent posts have been referring to $200 off-brand standalone players, not the 360 drive.

There are $200 Hd-DVD players available in the US? Under what brand name?

 

[ManaByte]

http://www.next-gen.biz/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=4698&Itemid=2

Blu-ray, HD-DVD Neck-and-Neck

Sony Computer Entertainment America tells Next-Gen that Blu-ray disc sales lead HD-DVD sales by only 1,000 units, but expects that gap to widen thanks to PlayStation 3 sales; top two Blu-ray titles and overall format unit sales within...

In response to an inquiry from Next-Gen, SCEA states that cumulative Blu-ray movie unit sales stand at just over 439,000 units in the US, while total HD-DVD sales are just under 438,000 units. Blu-ray currently stands as the number one new DVD format in unit and dollar sales in the US, according to research firm NPD Group.

HD-DVD players launched in spring last year, while Blu-ray players first released in the summer 2006 time frame. Sony expects the new generation movie sales gap to widen throughout 2007.

According to SCEA, the top Blu-ray movie is Crank, starring The Transporter's Jason Statham and number two is Gridiron Gang, starring Dwayne "The Rock" Johnson.

Sales of the Blu-ray enabled PS3 spurred a relative Blu-ray movie buying frenzy in January following the console's mid-November launch. SCEA recently said that Blu-ray titles outsold HD-DVD titles close to three-to-one during the second week of January.

According to Sony, the company currently lays claim to 40 percent of the the Blu-ray player market with the PS3 and the company's $1,000 BDP-S1 standalone player.

In November, Microsoft launched an HD-DVD add-on for the Xbox 360, which had sold 92,000 units in North America as of the end of December 2006, according to the NPD.

Sony had shipped 2 million PS3s worldwide by mid-January, with 1 million of those shipped to the US by the end of 2006.

 

[Petrarca]

More fallout from Universal studio management shake-up, GE may sell the division. No wonder Universal has been very quiet lately

damn, bad news just seem to follow HD-DVD camp every single day lately

http://www.forbes.com/feeds/ap/2007/02/07/ap3403409.html

According to a New York Post story, the turnaround might not be occurring fast enough for GE Chief Executive Jeff Immelt. The article cited three sources who speculated that Immelt could consider spinning off the unit if its performance does not significantly improve.

 

[LuCkymoON]

More fallout from Universal studio management shake-up, GE may sell the division. No wonder Universal has been very quiet lately

damn, bad news just seem to follow HD-DVD camp every single day lately

http://www.forbes.com/feeds/ap/2007/02/07/ap3403409.html

Nice spin, but this artical is talking more about problems GE is having with NBC's managment of it's TV network. It then goes to cite that TV shows such as NBC Universal's Heroes is bringing the ratings back up.

 

[fortified_concept]

http://www.next-gen.biz/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=4698&Itemid=2

If total Bluray sales managed to tie HD-DVD sales doesn't that mean Bluray is selling a lot faster than HD-DVD now?

 

[Warm Machine]

The Chinese HD-DVD players are only a part of the CE business. Chinese companies are set to roll into North America and deliver everything from flat panel TVs, to audio recievers and essentially try to steam roll all the big Japanese companies with their insanely low prices.

They also face competition from PC manufacturers right now.

 

[DarkJediKnight]

http://www.next-gen.biz/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=4698&Itemid=2

This is total disc sales right? I don't think anyone expected Blu-ray to catch up by early Feb - let alone surpass HD DVD disc sales, considering where they were in Oct.

 

[ManaByte]

If total Bluray sales managed to tie HD-DVD sales doesn't that mean Bluray is selling a lot faster than HD-DVD now?

No, there was a very large spike of BRD sales in the beginning of January due to people getting a PS3 in Nov/Dec but it went back down to "Normal" levels in the third and fourth weeks.

 

[DarkJediKnight]

No, there was a very large spike of BRD sales in the beginning of January due to people getting a PS3 in Nov/Dec but it went back down to "Normal" levels in the third and fourth weeks.

Possibly, but the sales data was updated because they forgot to include HD DVD combo sales during the first 2 weeks of Jan. There hasn't been any info regarding 3rd and 4th weeks sales yet that I know of.

 

[Petrarca]

No, there was a very large spike of BRD sales in the beginning of January due to people getting a PS3 in Nov/Dec but it went back down to "Normal" levels in the third and fourth weeks.

except BD has a lot more new contents in Feb/Mar/Apr individual month alone than January

 

[Suikoguy]

The Chinese HD-DVD players are only a part of the CE business. Chinese companies are set to roll into North America and deliver everything from flat panel TVs, to audio recievers and essentially try to steam roll all the big Japanese companies with their insanely low prices.

They also face competition from PC manufacturers right now.

So in other words, we are about to be bombarded by high quantities of crap?

 

[fortified_concept]

No, there was a very large spike of BRD sales in the beginning of January due to people getting a PS3 in Nov/Dec but it went back down to "Normal" levels in the third and fourth weeks.

I don't know, seems to me Bluray catched up with HDDVD waaaaaaaaay too early.

 

[NinSoX]

HD is going to beat Blu Ray because everyone is buying HDTV but you don't see people buy Blu Ray TVs anymore.

 

[DarkJediKnight]

HD is going to beat Blu Ray because everyone is buying HDTV but you don't see people buy Blu Ray TVs anymore.

Dammit! *Throws out my DVDTVs*

 

[Petrarca]

Studios are choking the life out of HD-DVD. Someone made an observation on current trend of HD-DVD vs Blu-ray sales.......and he is right. It's a conspiracy to starve HD-DVD to death

That’s it. Blu-Ray will win.
Posted by Art under Movies , Video , Standards

Recently, C|Net’s David Carnoy drew a lot of flak for predicting that Blu-Ray will beat the pants out of HD-DVD and that HD-DVD will have to shut down by year’s end. After drawing lots of fire, he just posted the defense for his claims here.

But there’s something else that’s in the air. Something that David and all the format-war-watchers should keep an eye on, and which may be a more reliable harbinger of things to come. Namely, the stuff that are actually selling in the high-def bestsellers lists of both formats.

And if you take a peek at the current bestsellers, you’ll see one huge difference that may mean the eventual win of Blu-Ray.

First, here’s the current top ten sellers for HD-DVD.

Top 10 HD-DVD Bestsellers (c/o DVD Empire.com)

Eagles: Farewell 1 Tour
Hollywoodland
Half Baked
Chicago/ Earth, Wind and Fire: Live
Toto: Live in Amsterdam
HDScape Exotic Saltwater Aquarium
James Taylor: Musicares Person of the Year Tribute
Pat Methany Group: The Way Up
Heart: Alive in Seattle
Casino
Now take a look at the top ten for Blu-Ray disc sales:

Top 10 Blu-Ray Bestsellers (c/o DVD Empire.com)

The Guardian
Flyboys
Open Season
Crank
Alien vs. Predator
Superman Returns
Saw III
Legends of Jazz with Ramsey Lewis
Pearl Harbor
The Last Samurai
Do you see the difference? Holy Hannibals, the HD-DVD bestsellers are a bunch of musicfests for the forty-something-and-up geriatric crowd. Where are the good movies? The only recent movie here is Hollywoodland… and it was a box office dud. In fact, just recently this list also included Poseidon. Argh. You can detect a sense of foreboding in the air when its number nine topseller is an act that seems happy to still be alive.

By contrast, Blu-Ray bestsellers seem to point to a younger, more mainstream crowd. Heck, Ashton Kutcher is number one here. And then there’s the visually dazzling Flyboys, the over-the-top Crank, and man, the lovely The Last Samurai. Even Superman Returns is here (no matter what you think of it, it’s still a visual treat that you’d want to see in a home theater). This is a healthy list, with a number of recent box-office winners. This is a list that says “We’re young, we love movies, and we love them newfangled machines! Bring ‘em on!”

In short, if the best discs that HD-DVD can come up with include a saltwater aquarium, then the format is doomed. Sorry to say this, but the Sony consortium has the winners right now. More important, they have the younger, and therefore potentially larger, market.

And when stuff like Spider-Man and Star Wars (and Casino Royale, which pal David is waiting for with bated breath) come out, then, in the words of Hudson in Aliens (another movie that will only come out on Blu-Ray), it’s “Game over man. Game over!”

http://www.dvdempire.com/Exec/v4_bestsellerpage.asp?userid=99365337142963&swit=1&view=0&pp=&site_id=68&site_media_id=39

 

[Zaptruder]

http://www.next-gen.biz/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=4698&Itemid=2

I honestly don't understand what you are trying to do.

You claim to be format neutral, yet constantly you take jabs at BD where you can and resort to spinning HD-DVD news positively... going so far as to bold the details where BD is *only* 1000 units away from HD-DVD in total sales and what not.

It'll fool the layman... but this is GAF; we're sales whore fanatics... and your ploy is far too plainly obvious to see.

You don't deserve BD; sink with the ship of HD-DVD.

 

[ManaByte]

I honestly don't understand what you are trying to do.

You claim to be format neutral, yet constantly you take jabs at BD where you can and resort to spinning HD-DVD news positively... going so far as to bold the details where BD is *only* 1000 units away from HD-DVD in total sales and what not.

It'll fool the layman... but this is GAF; we're sales whore fanatics... and your ploy is far too plainly obvious to see.

You don't deserve BD; sink with the ship of HD-DVD.

So...I don't deserve BD because I own both formats? What is this? Germany in the 1940s?

 

[Petrarca]

PLUCKED PEACOCK

While Sony Pictures, Disney Buena Vista and 20th Century FOX are all having record years as of late, Universal Studio, the lone studio backing HD-DVD exclusively, is struggling to compete in the movie industry

http://www.nypost.com/seven/02072007/business/plucked_peacock_business_peter_lauria.htm

February 7, 2007 -- General Electric Chairman Jeff Immelt's increased involvement in the direction of NBC Universal could be a sign that the entertainment giant's parent is mulling an eventual exit from the TV and film business.

Three sources close to the company said that keeping NBC for the long-term remains very much an open question in Immelt's mind, and added he could look to sell the asset if it doesn't significantly improve in the next 12 months.

"Immelt is paid to be flexible, and the GE portfolio is very much in transition," said one of these sources. "I don't think he'll do anything in the near-term, but whether NBC is still at GE three to five years from now is yet to be determined."

Indeed, with digital media not yet rivaling the cash thrown off by traditional media, and GE's history of adherence to strict performance measures, Immelt could explore alternatives for the division, including a possible sale, these sources said.

Bob Wright, who yesterday stepped down as NBC's CEO to make room for Jeff Zucker, left that open in an interview with The Post.

"If the business doesn't have good prospects, as with any business within GE, it is going to come under a lot of scrutiny," said Wright, who remains a vice chairman at GE.

According to a second source with knowledge of the situation, Wright himself has recently brought up to Immelt the subject of selling NBC.

Wright's big ambition was to take NBC public and since that desire has been thwarted - Immelt shot down that prospect again yesterday, saying going public "was not something we envision - this source said Wright has taken the position that NBC is too challenging a business for GE to be in long-term.

A GE spokesman said the idea of selling NBC was wholly inaccurate.

"We like this business very much, we like the team we have in place and we plan on operating this company as best we can for the long-term," the spokesman said.

As far as reviewing its portfolio, the spokesman conceded that GE "enhances its business for sure, but to say that we constantly change is wrong." How quickly Zucker figures out how to offset the revenue decline in traditional media with revenue growth in digital media will be a key factor in determining how long GE will stay in the entertainment business.

"That's the singular challenge all us in media face," Zucker said. "We have to be prepared for when that will eventually happen."

 

[DarkJediKnight]

You don't deserve BD; sink with the ship of HD-DVD.

Uh, that's a pretty stupid thing to say.

 

[Mrbob]

No, there was a very large spike of BRD sales in the beginning of January due to people getting a PS3 in Nov/Dec but it went back down to "Normal" levels in the third and fourth weeks.

Considering that HD DVD discs were sold much earlier, and launched nearly 6 months ahead of time mainstream, I would say it means yes Blu Ray is selling much faster right now.

 

[mollipen]

I don't know. Most iTunes movies are $10 and in 720p. Not bad for $10.

Unless you've got access to a secret new iTunes store, not quite. Movies are 480p, at most, depending on how they were encoded.

 

[Petrarca]

You don't deserve BD; sink with the ship of HD-DVD.

Don't be like that.

As BD fan, and more importantly as a movie fan, we should always welcome ALL; movie fans, DVD fans, HD-DVD fans.

 

[soundwave05]

Studios are choking the life out of HD-DVD. Someone made an observation on current trend of HD-DVD vs Blu-ray sales.......and he is right. It's a conspiracy to starve HD-DVD to death



http://www.dvdempire.com/Exec/v4_bestsellerpage.asp?userid=99365337142963&swit=1&view=0&pp=&site_id=68&site_media_id=39

There is no "conspiracy" everyone knew it was Disney/BV + Sony + MGM + 20th Century Fox vs. Universal going into this thing.

4 studios vs. 1 ... what did people really think was going to happen?

 

[bishoptl]

C'mon Zap, don't be like that
We can all get along, and pet the cat

 

[DarkJediKnight]

4 vs. 1 ... what did people really think was going to happen?

In a gangbang, the chick usually doesn't come out looking her best.