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Homeland - Season 5 - Sundays on Showtime

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R

RatskyWatsky

Hunky Nostradamus
Tugatrix said:
This make no sense, can't Carrie get that Allison is the russian mole? didn't she recognize her voice on the phone? why not telling Saul?

What the hell is going on the writers room, the story makes no sense at this point
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Dan said:
We're somehow in a realm where Saul and Allison are closely linked personally and professionally, yet Dar's suspicion of Saul doesn't spill over to Allison in any form whatsoever. That's... really fucking dumb of Dar.
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The season as a whole has been pretty entertaining, but the writing is simply atrocious.
 
R

rtcn63

Member
Does Carrie not recognize Allison's voice? At first I thought she was maybe just keeping her suspicion to herself, but she'd have definitely blurted it out when Saul rejected her.
 
P

-Pyromaniac-

Member
Good episode. I loved the music in all the paranoid Saul scenes. Definitely an entertaining season but yeah a lot of the writing requires some suspension of belief, moreso than homeland usually demands (Which is saying a lot).
 
D

Dan

No longer boycotting the Wolfenstein franchise
rtcn63 said:
Does Carrie not recognize Allison's voice? At first I thought she was maybe just keeping her suspicion to herself, but she'd have definitely blurted it out when Saul rejected her.
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Eh, that's actually not bad. Allison said what, a couple words in Russian on the phone? That's not much from which to recognize a person who normally speaks English.
 
S

sangreal

Member
Dan said:
Eh, that's actually not bad. Allison said what, a couple words in Russian on the phone? That's not much from which to recognize a person who normally speaks English.
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not even -- I think all she said was "Da?"

the real leap is carrie's determination that there is something in the documents that the russians care about her seeing
 
H

harSon

Banned
That was some rightwing wet dream bullshit. Some rundown terrorist cell slum where extremists roam the streets with no repercussions in the middle of Germany lmao?
 
G

Gorger

Member
harSon said:
That was some rightwing wet dream bullshit. Some rundown terrorist cell slum where extremists roam the streets with no repercussions in the middle of Germany lmao?
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Haha yeah, and of all the people living in Germany of course Quinn accidentally stumbles upon this den of terrorists.... what are the odds?

What was the doctor even doing there by himself so late when he found Quin? It's all just so random, so contrived, so forced, so unlikely.
 
M

markofhavoc

Member
I just wanted to say I can finally post in here after binge watching the entire series for the past two weeks. Feels good, ups and downs, but I am really enjoying this season.
 
S

Saty

Member
Dan said:
We're somehow in a realm where Saul and Allison are closely linked personally and professionally, yet Dar's suspicion of Saul doesn't spill over to Allison in any form whatsoever. That's... really fucking dumb of Dar.
Click to expand...

Well obviously Allison did that thing that exempts you from any suspicion by handing Dar the evidence of Etai being in Geneva..
 
S

Sir Garbageman

Member
Gorger said:
Haha yeah, and of all the people living in Germany of course Quinn accidentally stumbles upon this den of terrorists.... what are the odds?

What was the doctor even doing there by himself so late when he found Quin? It's all just so random, so contrived, so forced, so unlikely.
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This. Just caught up and I thought this was so random and bizarre.
 
shanafan

shanafan

Member
Enjoyed tonight's episode considerably more than last week.

Plot question -
What was the significance of the person, presumed to be dead, living in Amsterdam? Why did Carrie need to go to Amsterdam and spy on him?
 
B

BLOODED_hands

Member
At this point.... I think everybody is just out to get each other lol.

I think Dar and Saul are planning something. They can't be that stupid to fall for Allisons dumb ploy right?! She does seem to be playing everyone and I think Dar and Saul are looking for the right time to reveal their plans to out her.

I think I wasn't paying attention but yea, what is Zaheer's significance to Carrie?

Next week looks like things are going to pick up again.
 
O

Omzz

Member
I paused the episode midway just to say how comical it is how easily alison is playing both these tools. hopefully by the end this changes..or something
 
D

Dan

No longer boycotting the Wolfenstein franchise
Hey Carrie, stop fucking asking Laura for help if you're completely unwilling to do anything in return.

Laura, stop being the laziest, whiniest goddamn journalist of all time. You lucked into this so-called hacker sending you some documents, and now you've spent the whole season walking around self-righteously begging people for the rest.

Saul and Dar Adal, just kill yourselves for being the worst spies in history. You couldn't find a rat even if it climbed up your pants and was hanging from your balls by its teeth. The only thing dumber than these characters is if the show ends pretending this has all been an act, which would be a massive cheat.

This damn season is actually about Russian intelligence freaking out about Carrie, and only Carrie, reading a document that will result in her unraveling a global conspiracy. This universe couldn't possibly be any smaller or Carrie-centric.
 
D

Don Draper's Hat

Member
If Saul and Dar aren't planning something to catch Allison, then wow, they're the biggest idiots ever.

But at the same time, if they are planning something, why the pretence when they're together by themselves?

No doubt Otto and German Brody are spies too. And that hacker guy. And that dog.
 
Z

Zaph

Member
Alison is the luckiest double-agent on the planet - people just become stupid the moment they're around her.

Given the supposed legendary history of Saul and Dar as amazing rival spies, this better be some long con to expose Russian or Israeli dirt. I could be wrong, but each time those two have had a verbal run in, they've been in the company of others or in a potentially bugged location - so it could be a show to make the defection look real.
 
S

Squalor

Junior Member
How is it people who have worked together for so long and have almost died together (Carrie, Dar, Saul) all suspect one another of foul play, but not a single person has suspected Allison?

Oh, yeah, we're in Plotholeland.
 
J

jtb

Banned
I've kind of switched my brain off with regards to the plot, which doesn't seem like it's full of plot holes so much as it just doesn't even exist.

But the scene with Saul in the elevator was great.
 
T

Tugatrix

Member
everyone around Allison is being stupid, too fucking stupid for a pretense smart show. I just hope this is all part of the plan Dar and Saul were discussing early in the season. Also why on earth those middle eastern guys would trust an American to get them to Syria, I know Jihady Joes are not a smart bunch but they aren't that stupid.

Still this season is fun to watch even with all the dumbness going on
 
S

Saty

Member
So basically the reason why only Carrie can make sense of the leaked info is because long after Carrie left the agency , a former asset signaled the CIA and wanted to share key intel with her alone. The agents that visited him never bothered to let him know Carrie is no longer employed so he better tell them the info. The man says it straight: "Somebody might have told me,don't you think? Instead, I'm sitting here and waiting for the phone to ring." !!!!

Anyhow, the deal is that this Ahmed guy worked for the CIA until his alleged death. Allison who was in charge of the Baghdad station, and being a double-agent that actually works for the Russians, probably arranged and faked his death so the SVR could get their hands on him.
--
The Russians only knew what documents the hacker got only after Carrie's name was put in Quinn's Kill-box. The Russians only knew what documents the hacker got only after Carrie's name was put in Quinn's Kill-box. The Russians only knew what documents the hacker got only after Carrie's name was put in Quinn's Kill-box.

For the love of god why doesn't Carrie do basic timeline check?! They keep floating the idea that this all might be a miscommunication but that doesn't excuse why Carrie is making this glaring mistake. The only way i can salvage this is maybe by Allison informing the Russians what was stolen so they could put Carrie's name by the end of the second episode. But the way the Russians went after that guy and killed him looked to me as they were discovering the significance of the leak right there instead of already knowing about it through Allison.

Carrie goes out of her way last ep to specifically talk with Saul and tell her what she knows. She tells she believes the CIA has a mole inside it and thus can't trust anyone but him. However, Carrie doesn't flinch before calling Allison and telling her important stuff. If you can't trust anyone but Saul then why are you sharing stuff with Allison. The only way your name got in the kill-box is that a very high ranking agent was involved - Allison fits that bill, so wtf are you doing, Carrie? Again, i just want to believe Carrie is baiting her and preparing something for their meet other than the writing being downright moronic.

But then comes the Quinn thing and shows exactly that. Quinn. Quinn, dude. Peter!
"Umm..Dar, did you know that i was ordered to kill Carrie? Like, were you in on that? Because me and Carrie believe the Russians compromised Saul's operation. Just letting you know, you know. 'Cause if you didn't concoct this operation with Saul, if killing Carrie wasn't a CIA order, if you're only aware of that order by me telling you right now, then , shit Dar, you have a high-ranking official that's working for someone else. And it isn't Saul"

But nothing. Quinn says fucking NOTHING.
 
Z

Zaph

Member
Saty said:
So basically the reason why only Carrie can make sense of the leaked info is because long after Carrie left the agency , a former asset signaled the CIA and wanted to share key intel with her alone. The agents that visited him never bothered to let him know Carrie is no longer employed so he better tell them the info. The man says it straight: "Somebody might have told me,don't you think? Instead, I'm sitting here and waiting for the phone to ring." !!!!
Click to expand...

This mishandling of assets/information sharing is probably the most believable thing in the season so far.

I'm all for suspension of disbelief if the entertainment value warrants it, but this show is literally asking you to put your brain in a jar for 1 hour a week.
 
D

Dan

No longer boycotting the Wolfenstein franchise
Saty said:
Carrie goes out of her way last ep to specifically talk with Saul and tell her what she knows. She tells she believes the CIA has a mole inside it and thus can't trust anyone but him. However, Carrie doesn't flinch before calling Allison and telling her important stuff. If you can't trust anyone but Saul then why are you sharing stuff with Allison. The only way your name got in the kill-box is that a very high ranking agent was involved - Allison fits that bill, so wtf are you doing, Carrie? Again, i just want to believe Carrie is baiting her and preparing something for their meet other than the writing being downright moronic.

But then comes the Quinn thing and shows exactly that. Quinn. Quinn, dude. Peter!
"Umm..Dar, did you know that i was ordered to kill Carrie? Like, were you in on that? Because me and Carrie believe the Russians compromised Saul's operation. Just letting you know, you know. 'Cause if you didn't concoct this operation with Saul, if killing Carrie wasn't a CIA order, if you're only aware of that order by me telling you right now, then , shit Dar, you have a high-ranking official that's working for someone else. And it isn't Saul"

But nothing. Quinn says fucking NOTHING.
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Everyone is monumentally dumb and naive this season. It's a clusterfuck of idiocy. No one has a single lick of sense.
 
B

Bunta

Fujiwara Tofu Shop
Squalor said:
How is it people who have worked together for so long and have almost died together (Carrie, Dar, Saul) all suspect one another of foul play, but not a single person has suspected Allison?

Oh, yeah, we're in Plotholeland.
Click to expand...
I hate when shows make characters dumb all of a sudden or do something completely uncharacteristic.
 
K

KarmaCow

Member
It's kinda funny to watch as everyone Carrie works with ends up dying trying to help her as she goes around complaining about people not helping her.
 
C

CoolOff

Member
This was the episode that really drove home the overall character stupidity for me, for the reasons mentioned by other posters.

Please let it turn out to be some long-con that isn't too contrived, because at this point I'm getting angry watching it.
 
C

cbox

Member
Squalor said:
How is it people who have worked together for so long and have almost died together (Carrie, Dar, Saul) all suspect one another of foul play, but not a single person has suspected Allison?

Oh, yeah, we're in Plotholeland.
Click to expand...

In homeland fashion, they probably already know and it'll be revealed in a future episode. Kinda like how all of a sudden Saul was kidnapped.
 
C

chalkitdown1

Member
Ok episode this week. Too much stupid shit happening, though. Why is everyone this season so fucking dumb? How come all these people who have worked together for years (and even decades in some cases) don't trust each other yet not a single one of them suspects Alison? It's beyond the usual dumb logic of this show that we're meant to buy this. Also, how foreshadowed was the death of the taxi driver? He should have also mentioned that it was his last day before retirement.
 
R

RatskyWatsky

Hunky Nostradamus
WSJ - ‘Homeland’ Season 5, Episode 7: An Intelligence Expert Weighs In

Now that we know Allison is working for the Russians, I’m actually going to have to walk back criticism from a few episodes ago on the idea of too much women and sex. It is absolutely true that American intelligence professionals are strongly discouraged from using sex as a weapon or as a way to get information or influence people. The same is not true about the Russians. So Allison using her “skills” is very Russian, very Eastern European. It’s the old trick of the KGB and the Stasi from the Cold War. They had special schools to teach women how to use their feminine wiles to entrap men. So Allison sleeping with Saul is almost a classic honeytrap in this case. If she was doing it as an American, that still is a terrible trope that should be taken away from every single espionage or spy movie. But in this case, I will say that the Russians would be very open to this idea – they actually would probably be pushing her to do so.
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Lastly, when Carrie is escaping her black-bag job in Amsterdam, after she searched through the house of the Iraqi asset. The Russians start shooting at her? This is not a good idea, and we’ve talked about this before, the idea that you don’t want to attract attention. Amsterdam and the Netherlands have incredibly strict gun laws – somebody shooting off guns in the middle of the city is going to attract a boatload of attention. Especially in an area with kids, next to a school. It’s a ridiculous trope that they’re going to shoot at her in the middle of a street. It’s supposed to be a clandestine operation. We call these “covert” operations for a reason.

Yeah, it was great tradecraft on Carrie’s part to take her wig off, so she changes the color of her hair, it’s something that will cause people to perhaps not be able to follow her. But just like the shootout in Berlin, when Peter Quinn gets shot, how there’s not a hundred cops there within seconds is preposterous. This is not a good way of doing things if they’re the Russians. It makes them look like lugs. Which, it’s fine – they’re the bad guys – but, they’re SVR. They’re really good at this. These aren’t Eurotrash, like, Russian Mafia types who shoot first and ask questions later. This is the descendant of the KGB, so they’re not going to blast rounds off in the middle of Amsterdam. Again, it’s a Hollywood trope that’s unnecessary. If anything, they would chase Carrie down because they want information from her. This is what I’ve been harping on for a couple of weeks. You don’t kill people first and ask questions later. The whole idea of intelligence collection is to actually get information. It’s hard to do that from dead people.
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A

AngmarsKing701

Member
The lack of suspicion around Allison is truly beyond the ability to suspend belief at this point. Dar and Saul have worked together too long to not expand their suspicion levels. Ridiculous, really.
 
N

Niraj

I shot people I like more for less.
Have to agree with all the Allison related skepticism, it's getting to be a bit much. Guess we'll see where it goes from here.
 
L

Leona Lewis

Banned
...in which we learn that Allison's vagina possesses mind-control abilities, Carrie sweats pheromones that lead all men around her to their premature deaths, and that Homeland has been a supernatural thriller all along.
 
J

jtb

Banned
I have no idea what they are doing with Quinn's character this season. No matter how stupid everyone is about the Allison situation, they've been 10x as stupid in Quinn's subplot.
 
T

tearsintherain

Member
Quinn's character makes more sense when you realize he is Agent 47 in a long term assignment to make a new line of super agents with Carrie. Along the way he is learning human emotions. Oh, I saw Hitman tonight too, not a great movie (basically 180 from the videogame) but Quinn is pretty good as Agent 47.

I do love how every time Carrie comes across any sort of minor obstacle she immediately breaks down and starts to cry, causing the other person to immediately agree to whatever she wants. Its the greatest power in the marvel universe.
 
O

Omzz

Member
Ummm just WTF are they doing with quinn's story? There is nothing happening there at all. If this continues I might just start missing the Brodys

Also finally Carrie figures it out, can't wait for Allison to get exposed
 
C

CoolOff

Member
So if the main guy in the Berlin cell was only going to Kosovo to pick up some WMDs, why the fuck would he bring Quinn?
 
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