TheTechnician
Banned
Okay here is the Thing - this Gen is full of Comparisons from all kinds of Tech Outlets wich seemingly have proven that even an GTX 750ti is able to outperforme a PS4. Especialy DF was keen with such Videos\ Articles.
But they all did not honor the fact that those cases were entirely Third Party Games. From Publishers like EA and Activision. Those Devs for shure did not use much of PS4 low Level API GNM but rather the high level one GNMX. This kind of Development is faster and cheaper because the GNMX high Level API is an complete all in one solution wich gives the Programmers all the tools they need for certain tasks. But it will never use that Hardware to full extent..
We can assume now that Sonys AAA Studios make full use of all Hardware Funktions that came with PS4.
John Carmack made a statement at the beginning of this gen that PS4 should roughly equate to a PC with the double TF Power. He got alot of flak for that ...
But that there were allways Pointers wich supported the Assumption of an Console hardware edge over similar PC. Even when there were no Exclusives yet ported to PC. Even without them we could come to that conclusion byjust the use of proper logic.
For one :
We saw how Third Party AAA Games looked and how they performed on PS4 the entire Gen. Many of those games looked okay or even good and rare cases combined that with even solid performance.
But then we saw Sonys AAA Exclusives wich almost all of them had in combination :
A bigger scope
much better graphics
and they did all this with even better performance most of the time.
It is easy to wipe that all aside with by saying:,, yeah Sony just gave them more Time\ Money. This actually could be true in most cases but this still does not funktion as an point against wat is discussed here, since:
"More Time" equates to more in depth Development, more optimisation, to better use of Hardware.
"More Money" equates to more experts being hired who have deep knowledge about Hardware and or also to "more time"
So now that all know where iam comming from - lets look into especially HZD. Theres a Case in Point also with Detroid Become Human (wich also shows better performance on PS4 than on similar PC hardware) but i want to keep it simple here and use only one game .
Interstingly enough there are now 2 former PS4 Exclusives wich also sharing the same Engine. Of course i talk here about the Decima Engine and HZD and Death Stranding. Death Stranding however i think will distort this Picture i like to draw here .
For one Reason - i think it does not squeeze as much out of PS4 as HZD does. Why ? There are several Points here:
It was developed by a smaller Team in shorter time with a smaller Budget and those Developers did not have as much expierience with the Engine than Guerilla Games
wich must logicly result in less optimised code!
Then by just looking at it, it comes across , although looking impressive, as an empty desert in comparision to HZD. One could even think it looks like a HZD version in wich someone removed by console command all foliage. If this happens in a PC game the expectations would be that the frames per second would rise since so many things are not drawn anymore by the GPU.
And if you know that then you could even drive this train of thought further by saying - simply by having no foliage and trees to draw - there is ad all the time more sky to see than in HZD. More sky = less triangles \ shaders drawn.
Before i finaly talk about HZD in specific i want to say that in my opinion the only real challenge Death Stranding takled was its "Black Water Dimension". ( the better animations and motion captures i ignore here because they realy mean only more extras and do not contribute to anything code based) Mainly so because the Game must have that entire sublevel ready in ram allmost all of the time because it could happen nearly everywhere that you got pulled in and they did not bother with a long load screen.
Okay so finaly:
With the release of HZD on PC we have now one of the best and graphical impressive PS4 Game on PC to Study what kind of Hardware start to struggle on PS4 Settings and thus we can narrow down what the realworld Performance realy is in PS4.
Disclaimer:
I know that PS4s Jaguar Cores have no real Desktop Equivalent - so we need to choose the CPUs wisely to not have an to performant CPU wich would be unfair towards PS4 with its Netbook CPU. One of the main Points in arguing the Theory that Console Hardware has an performance edge over PC is that the CPU has way less Draw Call overhead. It is this reason only why those weak Netbook CPU could even be used as a gaming CPU.
Only in a very efficient Console Enviroment such a weak CPU could be used for proper gaming.
So i focused on searching Youtube Videos of HZD being played with an FX 8300... an 8Core CPU wich for shure should run circles around PS4s jaguar. Yeah that is what i do - i look around in Youtube since i dont have several Rigs to swap CPUs and GPUs ..
Okay:
so here is an Example of HZD being played with an FX 8300 and an RX 460 4Gb a 2.1 TFlop Card and 12Gb Ram.
later in the Video it is shown running at 1080p at PS4 settings and barely holds 30Fps. Even at 900p it drops under 30Fps. So we know that PS4 Version for shure would need to run with uncapped framerate around mid 40FPS to have an big enough treshold to garantee a looked 30 in even the heaviest battles with many robots and Alpha Effects.
here the Game is running with an even better Card - an RX 470 - almost 5Tflop @ 1680x 1050 Resolution like crap. Okay clearly CPu bound but that only proves that even an FX 8300 cannot make up with all its spare power in comparision to the Jaguar for the Console efficiency!
here a FX 6300 - a 6 Core CPU but i would assume since the PS4 Games also use like 6,5 Cores only of the 8 that even that CPu sould be fine to compare. Its bundeld with an GTX 960 an 2,4Tflop Card and the game runs around low 30s with in gerneral weaker settings as PS4 @ 1080p. Sure the card has only 2GB of Ram but iwould even sometimes compare it to such Cards because we did hear alot of that : ,, Okay PS4 has 8GB of GDDR5 but PCs can have always like 16GB of additional main Ram" Arguments
okay there are many more Videos out there who support me here but i guess as a bonus we take a look how the infamous i3 4130 \ GTX 750ti Combo from Digital Foundry ( remember it did very often even beat PS4 but the reasons for that i explained already way up there) themselfs does on a proper first party Title.
so here we have no frame counter but even with i guess 1366x 768 it runs on minimum like crap and surely not with 30fps.
next vid is again a GTX 750ti but this time bundled with an ryzen 5 3600 - so clearly GPU bound here..
it is struggeling with 900p on almost every setting on low..
Okay the last two Videos do nothing in terms of proving the PS4s Edge in Hardware since the GTX 750ti is hopelessly weak in comparison to the PS4s GPU but since we now HOW OFTEN this Card especially in those DF Comparisions did well against PS4, we know how bad some of these Third Party Games must have made use of PS4s capabilitys. Remember - all components in PS4 are actually underclocked - if you use only or mainly High level API GNMX you basicly aproach PS4s GPU as a normal Desktop Card with that Clockspeeds. In such a scenario PS4 must lose...
Okay that should be it for now. I hope it is readable what i put togheter here. Expect any responses to this from me not too early - it is 1:26 am here in germany now and i need to work tomorrow
until then bye!
But they all did not honor the fact that those cases were entirely Third Party Games. From Publishers like EA and Activision. Those Devs for shure did not use much of PS4 low Level API GNM but rather the high level one GNMX. This kind of Development is faster and cheaper because the GNMX high Level API is an complete all in one solution wich gives the Programmers all the tools they need for certain tasks. But it will never use that Hardware to full extent..
We can assume now that Sonys AAA Studios make full use of all Hardware Funktions that came with PS4.
John Carmack made a statement at the beginning of this gen that PS4 should roughly equate to a PC with the double TF Power. He got alot of flak for that ...
But that there were allways Pointers wich supported the Assumption of an Console hardware edge over similar PC. Even when there were no Exclusives yet ported to PC. Even without them we could come to that conclusion byjust the use of proper logic.
For one :
We saw how Third Party AAA Games looked and how they performed on PS4 the entire Gen. Many of those games looked okay or even good and rare cases combined that with even solid performance.
But then we saw Sonys AAA Exclusives wich almost all of them had in combination :
A bigger scope
much better graphics
and they did all this with even better performance most of the time.
It is easy to wipe that all aside with by saying:,, yeah Sony just gave them more Time\ Money. This actually could be true in most cases but this still does not funktion as an point against wat is discussed here, since:
"More Time" equates to more in depth Development, more optimisation, to better use of Hardware.
"More Money" equates to more experts being hired who have deep knowledge about Hardware and or also to "more time"
So now that all know where iam comming from - lets look into especially HZD. Theres a Case in Point also with Detroid Become Human (wich also shows better performance on PS4 than on similar PC hardware) but i want to keep it simple here and use only one game .
Interstingly enough there are now 2 former PS4 Exclusives wich also sharing the same Engine. Of course i talk here about the Decima Engine and HZD and Death Stranding. Death Stranding however i think will distort this Picture i like to draw here .
For one Reason - i think it does not squeeze as much out of PS4 as HZD does. Why ? There are several Points here:
It was developed by a smaller Team in shorter time with a smaller Budget and those Developers did not have as much expierience with the Engine than Guerilla Games
wich must logicly result in less optimised code!
Then by just looking at it, it comes across , although looking impressive, as an empty desert in comparision to HZD. One could even think it looks like a HZD version in wich someone removed by console command all foliage. If this happens in a PC game the expectations would be that the frames per second would rise since so many things are not drawn anymore by the GPU.
And if you know that then you could even drive this train of thought further by saying - simply by having no foliage and trees to draw - there is ad all the time more sky to see than in HZD. More sky = less triangles \ shaders drawn.
Before i finaly talk about HZD in specific i want to say that in my opinion the only real challenge Death Stranding takled was its "Black Water Dimension". ( the better animations and motion captures i ignore here because they realy mean only more extras and do not contribute to anything code based) Mainly so because the Game must have that entire sublevel ready in ram allmost all of the time because it could happen nearly everywhere that you got pulled in and they did not bother with a long load screen.
Okay so finaly:
With the release of HZD on PC we have now one of the best and graphical impressive PS4 Game on PC to Study what kind of Hardware start to struggle on PS4 Settings and thus we can narrow down what the realworld Performance realy is in PS4.
Disclaimer:
I know that PS4s Jaguar Cores have no real Desktop Equivalent - so we need to choose the CPUs wisely to not have an to performant CPU wich would be unfair towards PS4 with its Netbook CPU. One of the main Points in arguing the Theory that Console Hardware has an performance edge over PC is that the CPU has way less Draw Call overhead. It is this reason only why those weak Netbook CPU could even be used as a gaming CPU.
Only in a very efficient Console Enviroment such a weak CPU could be used for proper gaming.
So i focused on searching Youtube Videos of HZD being played with an FX 8300... an 8Core CPU wich for shure should run circles around PS4s jaguar. Yeah that is what i do - i look around in Youtube since i dont have several Rigs to swap CPUs and GPUs ..
Okay:
so here is an Example of HZD being played with an FX 8300 and an RX 460 4Gb a 2.1 TFlop Card and 12Gb Ram.
later in the Video it is shown running at 1080p at PS4 settings and barely holds 30Fps. Even at 900p it drops under 30Fps. So we know that PS4 Version for shure would need to run with uncapped framerate around mid 40FPS to have an big enough treshold to garantee a looked 30 in even the heaviest battles with many robots and Alpha Effects.
here the Game is running with an even better Card - an RX 470 - almost 5Tflop @ 1680x 1050 Resolution like crap. Okay clearly CPu bound but that only proves that even an FX 8300 cannot make up with all its spare power in comparision to the Jaguar for the Console efficiency!
here a FX 6300 - a 6 Core CPU but i would assume since the PS4 Games also use like 6,5 Cores only of the 8 that even that CPu sould be fine to compare. Its bundeld with an GTX 960 an 2,4Tflop Card and the game runs around low 30s with in gerneral weaker settings as PS4 @ 1080p. Sure the card has only 2GB of Ram but iwould even sometimes compare it to such Cards because we did hear alot of that : ,, Okay PS4 has 8GB of GDDR5 but PCs can have always like 16GB of additional main Ram" Arguments
okay there are many more Videos out there who support me here but i guess as a bonus we take a look how the infamous i3 4130 \ GTX 750ti Combo from Digital Foundry ( remember it did very often even beat PS4 but the reasons for that i explained already way up there) themselfs does on a proper first party Title.
so here we have no frame counter but even with i guess 1366x 768 it runs on minimum like crap and surely not with 30fps.
next vid is again a GTX 750ti but this time bundled with an ryzen 5 3600 - so clearly GPU bound here..
it is struggeling with 900p on almost every setting on low..
Okay the last two Videos do nothing in terms of proving the PS4s Edge in Hardware since the GTX 750ti is hopelessly weak in comparison to the PS4s GPU but since we now HOW OFTEN this Card especially in those DF Comparisions did well against PS4, we know how bad some of these Third Party Games must have made use of PS4s capabilitys. Remember - all components in PS4 are actually underclocked - if you use only or mainly High level API GNMX you basicly aproach PS4s GPU as a normal Desktop Card with that Clockspeeds. In such a scenario PS4 must lose...
Okay that should be it for now. I hope it is readable what i put togheter here. Expect any responses to this from me not too early - it is 1:26 am here in germany now and i need to work tomorrow
until then bye!
Last edited:
