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Hostage situation at a church near Rouen in northern France (Update: it's over)
- Thread starter mitheor
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Alx
Member
Well the latest attacks seemed to be executed at short notice with few equipment, unlike the shootings/bombings of Paris and Brussels. So there may be a "trending" effect, with many "dormant" terrorists deciding "ok, let's do it now" because it's all over the news and can have a cumulative impact. You can even wonder if it wouldn't influence attacks unrelated to ISIS, like the shooting in Germany or even that guy in Japan.
Mass_Pincup
Banned
There's already "troops on the ground" in Syria, they have more of an advisory role though.
MistakenMobius
Member
Well France have plenty of island in the pacific.
One for the migrant one for the potential terrorist
This is a murder suicide. Nothing terror related
Just saw it on my Google Newsfeed as well, it's a patient who shot his doctor.
Source: http://www.tagesspiegel.de/berlin/polizei-justiz/berlin-lichterfelde-arzt-von-patient-angeschossen-schuetze-tot/13928256.html
Fantastapotamus
Wrong about commas, wrong about everything
At the very fucking least it seems like only the shooter got killed. Fucking scumbag
How about they run some background tests to islamic immigrants, omg they're gonna burn your whole continent down.
From the last attack, I know the amount of people on France's terror watchlist is staggering, but this is still unacceptable. I don't believe in guilty until proven otherwise, but if we know somebody has been trying to get into Syria, unless we have the manpower to put them under 24hr surveillance, there has to be another solution. We can't have people who've tried to enter a war-zone to fight, walking the streets unmonitored.
Milly Osworth
Member
Cant be too mean to the poor refugees! Im sure they are all good guys with good intentions.
Tatsumi Oga
Banned
Chuckie
Member
Cracked actually did it. According to them ISIS doesn't really give a shit what name you give them. Then again, Cracked is a comedy site so I'd hardly consider that a reliable source.
Anyway, apparently it is strange to ask for confirmations from ISIS themselves from someone who said there are many confirmations from ISIS themselves, so I'll leave it at that.
Mass_Pincup
Banned
There's a big chance that it was a french citizen instead of an immigrant, like most of the attack who happened here.
RedSparrows
Member
This shit needs to go away. Nuance is a fucking dead concept to so many people it's terrifying.
Herb Alpert
Banned
Most of these assholes are homegrown.
Most are second gen immigrants, there is nothing you can do.
Fantastapotamus
Wrong about commas, wrong about everything
No, that's not true
ClosingADoor
Member
Throat slit, not beheaded. As far as I see on the news that is. Not that it makes it any better of course.
Tatsumi Oga
Banned
This does make me wonder why it has been Germany, France and Belgium so far and barely any other countries in Europe. Don't get me wrong, i hope to God it won't start happening on other countries, but you definitely notice this.
RedSparrows
Member
Of course there is.
The subtle implication of what you suggest here is pretty rank, btw, but dunno if you meant it.
Milly Osworth
Member
Be more strict. Dont want to speak the language or get a job? Get out. Doing crimes? Get out.
You can only help the good people if you weed out the bad.
Europe has had the "it will all work out fine" attitude for far far too long.
Mass_Pincup
Banned
What are you talking about? How does a french citizen born in France don't speak french? How does a french citizen doing crimes can get his citizenship revoked?
Well, not exactly "unmonitored", he was wearing an electronic bracelet. But he was allowed to go out in the morning.
coming from this and your other post earlier: the world isn't as simple as you'd like it to be.
Thanks for the info ClosingADoor and Fantastapotamus.
RedSparrows
Member
Most if not all terrorists in France spoke French and also had a job. You have literally no idea what are you talking about.
Milly Osworth
Member
Is this true for all the terrorism the last few months?
And it might be hard to fix the mess of the past, but we at least need to do it with the current refugees, or we have history repeating over and over.
No I just meant that you can't deny them entry (because they were born in France anyway) as the post I quoted suggested.
On the other hand European style integration doesn't seem to be working anyway, there are lots of Ghettos made up of Muslim immigrants, this is a huge contrast to the US.
Those are the countries with the most second gen immigrants. When the people currently going to Europe's kids are grown up, you might see this happening more in other countries as well.
So it's a consequence on the lack of control. You could stop future terrorists attacks 30 years from now by acting now and just /control/ what kind of people enter your country.
It's even a bit unjust, as many people would like to immigrate to your countries to work and make them grow, but no, you keep them away with bureaucracy and let a bunch of radicalized guya infiltrate your humaniarian aid programs. It's terrible.
Ravensmash
Member
Yes, but you need to weed out the bad without isolating or demonising communities.
The "don't like it, then get out" mentality won't necessarily cause wounds in society to heal.
Sqrt_minus_one
Member
I once came across a an interview with a French professor who pointed this out. He hypothesised that these children of first gen immigrants had kind of lost their identities not quite feeling French enough and not connected enough to their parents homeland. At that point they may be influenced by some religious nut job somewhere then they usually attempt to convince their parents that they are not religious enough before finally falling completely under the influence of extremists. He compared these 2nd gens more to the bader mein Hoff gang, called them lost children in fact.
Dudes name was Olivier Roy in case anyone wants to dig.
Alx
Member
The full statement has been published online, there's no explicit mention of new "troops on the ground", only references to those that were already sent.
Highlighted parts mentioning military action (among other things)
"We are facing a group, Daesh, that declared us war. We must fight that war with all available means while respecting (human) rights, which makes us a democracy."
and
(about stopping terrorists) "That's what we want, that's what we're going to do relentlessly, that's what we've put in place through laws, through the recent force deployment."
RedSparrows
Member
Far too much assuming that all second-gen immigrants are by nature a threat. This is evidently not the case, actually, and even presupposes external events have no part to play, nor that there are necessary variations between immigrant experiences in cities, regions, countries.
tldr: stop being so fucking simplistic, ta.
tldr: stop being so fucking simplistic, ta.
I always suggest comparing European muslim populations to African-American populations. It is a more comparable proportional size. American-style integration for muslims work mostly in that there aren't enough Muslims in most areas from them to stay unintegrated.
Most of these people speak the language
As far as "get a job" or "don't do crime", that's only easy on paper. The right party here tried that but with such bullshit rules that it also endangeres absolutely fine integrated citizen. Like they would be sent back to a country they were never born in for absolutely small or petty crimes. That is not fair, and dangerous.
Nicktendo86
Member
I read some statistics that showed that, here in the UK, second and third generation migrants from Muslim backgrounds are more conservative than their parents so it seems to be a widespread phenomenon. Until we find out why and work out solutions issues with communities that feel they are no part of society as a whole will just continue to get worse.
Is it?
But even if that's true (it's rather an issue of places with people with lower income, where ther's often many muslims), I'm not convinced terrorist are coming from thise places more often than others.
Also, many people wanting to leave for Syria have parents with good income and well integrated.
I don't think that it's as simple as this.
Palette Swap
Member
You're gonna need a very large crystal ball, considering your future terrorists aren't even born yet, and they could as well be born to well adjusted and moderate people.
Tatsumi Oga
Banned
Well...it's absolutely not something i easily say, but maybe it's time that our governments say...it's enough. We don't accept refugees anymore. There has to be a limit, it's simple as that. Of course for the few rotten apples there are so many well meaning ones.
Funky Papa
FUNK-Y-PPA-4
Comparing Muslim immigration to Europe with Muslim immigration to America is such a feckless thing to do.
Because they have a massive Muslim population. Or is that also taboo to mention. It's not happening in Hungary or Poland or Spain because their Muslim population is very small.
RIP.
Wish police had been able to capture those sick fucks alive, as always. First, for information, and second, because they got off easy again. It's all fun and games if you just go to the heavens to claim your virgins, but if you have to rot in a jail cell for decades and then succumb to some trivial old age sickness, it's another matter entirely. Also makes for really lousy propaganda. Plus, who knows, they might actually come around and repent.
Of course, I have no delusions that capturing them alive without endangering their hostages is even remotely feasible. Still. Would've been nice.
Wish police had been able to capture those sick fucks alive, as always. First, for information, and second, because they got off easy again. It's all fun and games if you just go to the heavens to claim your virgins, but if you have to rot in a jail cell for decades and then succumb to some trivial old age sickness, it's another matter entirely. Also makes for really lousy propaganda. Plus, who knows, they might actually come around and repent.
Of course, I have no delusions that capturing them alive without endangering their hostages is even remotely feasible. Still. Would've been nice.
blastprocessor
The Amiga Brotherhood
Do we now start to be nervous of certain people in society because it seems to be a regular occurrence. Honestly why is this happening?
ClosingADoor
Member
Extreme forms of Islam are reaching Muslim youth more and more. Here in Holland we had (Muslim) councilmen warn about the growing influence of Salafism under Muslim youth, and their parents are not aware of this until it is too late.
The theory sounds logical, the problem is what one can do about it. It's not just giving them work or sending the children to school (Western European countries provide free education anyway), several terrorists have had university degrees in the past and are from middle income families. There is just no known way to help them gain an identity if they haven't already done so in school or at work.
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