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Hot Mom Defends Herself Against Facebook Haters, gives a non-apology
- Thread starter Ripclawe
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Obviously it's different for every person. She was fit before pregnancy, which is the primary reason she was able to get back into such good shape so quickly. And obviously she lives a lifestyle that is conducive to getting in shape. But she wasn't trying to say "Why don't you look as good as I do?" - there are many factors that go into that, such as genetics, that are out of a person's control. She was asking "Why aren't you exercising?" - and her kids were there to drive the point home that you can live a healthy lifestyle despite obstacles.
You don't need to be Lebron James or Calvin Johnson or Serena Williams or Michael Phelps to do some basic research into nutrition and go to the gym for 3 hours a week. No, you won't look like her after 8 months, but that was never (intentionally) part of the question she was asking, and it would be silly to ask that anyway (because of genetics, etc.).
LeeRoyBrown
Banned
I don't think it's so much fat shaming as it would be shaming parents who already work very hard and don't have the time to get fit nor the motivation.
Oh, I thought those questions weren't about you personally. Sorry if I offended!
I want to make it clear that I'm not actually trying to shame you (although I did work hard and go to an ivy league school). Im trying to show that everyone has strengths and weaknesses and what comes easily to you may be very difficult for me, and vice versa.
We all struggle with stuff.
JesseEwiak
Member
Then why did obesity rates only skyrocket in the past twenty years or so, mainly only here in the US, while other countries in Europe, which contain most of our genetic makeup, have had slower amounts in the rise of obesity?
Count Dookkake
Member
His wording is a bit sloppy
what's his excuse?
Devolution
Member
Does Europe have as much sugar in their food products?
Well, I did go to an ivy league school and I do own my home already, but i dont have millions to throw around. Thats why I used I in the first two examples but not the third.
They were really supposed to illuminate how different people have different flaws. I struggle with anxiety and probably always will, but someone else may find it very easy to stay calm. By contrast, education came comparatively easy to me while others may struggle.
JesseEwiak
Member
There ya' go. I think a large percentage (let's say 60-70%) of the obesity problem is supply side (ie. corn subsidies, etc.), but I think there is something to the a junk of it is that we've been sold a sedentary society in the past few decades.
Like I said, I think a solid 10-15% of the population (plus circumstances like post-partum women and such) have actual physical issues why they're obese.
But, a large large large chunk of the population are fat because they're eating TV dinners and 64oz sodas as they drive home from their middle class jobs. Now, I understand why and support policies (like removing subsidies and passing new regulations) to help people, but they have to make a choice as well.
That you are bad at comparisons.
Each pic is missing the inclusion of an obstacle commonly touted as an excuse by under-performers, analogous to the 3 children in hot mom's pic.
Bingo.
Also, Opiate, if I were to answer your questions honestly I'd say I slacked off and drank too much during undergrad
Because of epigenetic causes? As I stated.
If you want nonmedical jargon, that means things which are not explicitly genetic (I.e. not coded in DNA) but still influenced significantly by nascent experiences or phenomena significantly outside a persons control.
Devolution
Member
Not to mention the shit we feed kids at school and call food. It's awful. It's so bad the first thing they do is run off to McDonalds during lunch if they can.
Epigenetics are heavily influenced by the environment of a person. I don't see your point. It's still the nature (in the US/other countries with high obesity) that significantly contributes to obesity. Both in terms of pathways and epigenetic changes.
Most people don't care. We hear this type of rhetoric in every infomercial with quick rich schemes and most ignore it. All these things pick on insecurities people have. The thing that goes into her favor is that quick rich schemes are failures while exercise and dieting are proven to work, unless she's advertising some ab roller contraption.
Shamrock7r
Member
Having recently ate school cafeteria food, I can attest to this. It is hilariously bad.
Environmental factors that promote overweight/obesity aren't limited to the US.
Also there's plenty of evidence that shows people with obesity-promoting genetic factors can successfully stave off excessive weight gain through diet and exercise. Which is the point the picture is trying to make. It's not "Oh, you should look exactly like me." It's "hey, you should stop convincing yourself you have good reasons not to exercise." I'm sure if someone has an actual condition where exercise would be deleterious to their health, they would understand that they are not the target audience for that message.
For example, I received a concussion a few months ago and was told not to exercise at all for 2 months. That is something I am sure the woman in the OP would consider to be a valid excuse, and thus the message is not intended for me and I would ignore it.
A
A More Normal Bird
Unconfirmed Member
You didn't go to class or have to meet certain standards set by governing bodies? You did nothing more than maybe a weekend's worth of reading, then just plugged away steadily for 3 to 6 hours a week, occasionally taking days or even entire weeks off, then over time found that the empty frame you'd hung on your wall was filling up until an entire certificate was there for all to see?
Correct. That is certainly what my definition of epigenetics was intended to convey.
The point is that epigenetics aren't considered a choice in the way we meaningfully use the term. As an extreme example, we don't criticize short people and tell them to be taller because we all recognize that being short wasn't their choice in any meaningful sense -- even though technically people have gotten much taller over time in the US, so clearly a significant portion of height is epigenetic, and height can indeed be changed by making different nutritional, physical, and supplementary choices.
Sure, and people who aren't as bright as I am could work harder and get to an ivy league school. And some people born in to extreme poverty become doctors and earn millions in their lifetimes. All of these issues can be overcome with enough determination.
Which only further emphasizes how lazy and stupid you must be if you aren't as educated as I am or as successful as some underprivileged doctors
please note: this is only intended to prove a point. I understand that different people face different challenges and at least some people are indeed better educated than I am
That isn't what the photograph is saying. Phrasing is very important here. For example, there is meaningful difference between saying "what's your reason?" and "what's your excuse?" even though the words reason and excuse are synonymous. This is about framing, and negatively framed motivation is worse (both ethically and effectively) than positively framed motivation.
If your issue is with her use of the word excuse vs reason, if this were an isolated incident I'd be inclined to agree with you that the word "excuse" does have a more negative connotation.
BUT
The whole "what's your excuse" phrase is a fitness meme. I'm very confident that's why she phrased it as such.
That I can't speak to. That's entirely possible as I'm not big in to the fitness world outside my own routine and a few questions to fitness GAF (I'll be asking more as I increase my lifting and reduce my cardio!) I'm perfectly willing to take your word for it because you certainly know more about this particular sphere than I do.
Frankly, the specific instance in the OP is less interesting to me than the general discussion of how we treat obesity (how much of it is a choice in the way we typically mean the word "choice? What are the causes for the rise in obesity in some countries?) and finding optimal ways improve outcomes (for example, I don't think giving people information is very effective, even though it feels like it should be. I think we should be focusing on controlling portion sizes, particularly at fast food restaurants, and finding ways to make access to ready made healthy meals more accessible, just for starters).
No argument there. The general environment in many areas of the world, and especially the US, is extremely conducive towards obesity. There's no denying that.
BocoDragon
or, How I Learned to Stop Worrying and Realize This Assgrab is Delicious
Epigenetic factors are surely insignificant compared to cultural factors. The obesity rates greatly vary by society, and these societies promote different foods, different portion sizes, differing levels of institutional excercize and differing values about fitness and social shame about obesity.
Put an obese American in Korea. I don't care what his genes are: he'll get fit.
Put an obese American in Korea. I don't care what his genes are: he'll get fit.
Epigenetics can include cultural phenomena. For example, increased portion sizes to infants would qualify and could set precedence for the rest of their life. Possible changes in milk chemistry might also have an effect. The mother's own rate of obesity may have an effect (although currently evidence for this is weak to negative, as I understand it).
But yes, adult cultural changes are probably a significant factor too, which are epi-epigenetic.
BocoDragon
or, How I Learned to Stop Worrying and Realize This Assgrab is Delicious
I can see it from that angle.
Huffing and puffing to the defense of this poor woman as if she is a damsel in distress who needs saving calls out your issues more than anything else. "Warped, over sensitive view"? LOL. Where's overdramatic cat when you need him?
Point is, she made a clear message to attempt to call others out. It backfired, and she got called out on it. Simple as that. #dealwithit
Trent Strong
Banned
I don't think these are good analogies. Getting a degree from an ivy league college and making a ton of money before you are 30 are not only difficult, but are really complicated and involve a lot of things that are beyond your control. Losing weight can be hard for some people, but it isn't complicated. All you have to do is burn more calories than you eat. It's a matter of simple addition. And also nothing about losing weight is out of your control. You don't need to lift weights or get a ton of exercise, you just have to burn more calories than you eat. If you have a slow metabolism than someone who's naturally thin, then you just have to eat fewer calories than they do. While this might be hard, it's not complicated and it's not out of your control.
Eat the same number of calories that you burn. Period.
Maybe they are difficult to you, but to other people they may be easy. Perhaps things which you find easy are difficult for other people.
Losing weight is complicated and is in significant part beyond your control.
And all you have to do is study more! All you have to do to quit smoking is to not buy cigarettes! All you have to do is work harder!
Again, you are wrong. Do you have scientific studies to support your position? For example, a study which suggests that weight gain is independent of genetic and epigenetic factors? Or that large serving / high sugar diets aren't addictive? Any literature of that nature? If you have it, I'd love to read it, because the scientific literature I've read generally reaches the opposite conclusion.
Bullshit, genetics don't play nearly as a large a role in being fit as people would like to believe. Unless your a super athlete or some bodybuilder type dude, than quit worrying about genetics. People's weight being dictated by metabolism is also one of the silliest myths out there. You want a fast metabolism? Then lift some weights or do some hardcore sprinting. That will lower your metabolism.
Also 20 minutes out of your day is all you need to reach a good level of fitness and to look good. This belief that you need to torture yourself through grueling 1hr plus long workouts day in and day out just isn't necessary for anyone whose goals are just to be fit. I mean hell you can be fit and look great just by maintaining a good diet. Though unfortunately not everyone is able to afford really healthy food, but you can make do with just getting chicken breasts, some vegetables, oatmeal, and other pretty cheap stuff.
Zoe
Member
No, it's not. You need a good diet. Working out is not enough.
Devolution
Member
Genetics and how someone starts out in life, like being inundated with sugars, plays a very large role in how they process and deal with food.
No, it's not. There is nothing complicated about it. Eat better/less, exercise, lose weight. It's really that simple. That doesn't mean it's easy, or something that happens rapidly, but if you do those things you will lose weight. People always like to play the genetics card, but that only applies to a tiny portion of overweight people, especially in the US. Hell, most people would lose weight by doing nothing more than portion control.
The great irony there is obese people technically have higher basal metabolic rates, simply because of the sheer amount of stress their increased weight puts on their bones and muscles. Things like breathing, fidgeting, moving from place to place, everything has to work harder.
Anyways, bottom line: If you work out even moderately and even marginally improve your diet from where it currently is, you will see results.
The magnitude of those results may very well be influenced by a combination of genetics, epigenetics, duration and quality of exercise, level of dietary discipline, etc etc.
But you will see results, barring some super rare medical condition that I can't even think of at the moment. The main issue people have, that makes them think they're being held back by their genetics, is that those results come very slowly.
Trent Strong
Banned
OK, quiting smoking is a good analogy, unlike getting a degree, because while it is hard, it isn't complicated. Just like losing weight is hard but not complicated. But then you bring up studying as an analogy, which doesn't work because studying for college courses is complicated, whereas doing simple addition is not. As for me having scientific studies that support my position, I don't think that saying that weight gain is under your control is the same thing as saying that it is independent of genetic and epigenetic factors. I would argue that nothing anyone ever does is independet of genetic factors. How could anything anything anyone does be completely independent of their genetics or biology? And are all of these studies that you've read about sugar being addictive and etc. actually good studies and good science? Earlier you referenced that study about oreos being as addictive as cocaine, but that study is completely worthless, as are many of these recent studies about sugar being toxic or addictive.
No it really doesn't. There's not a single person on my dad's side of the family who wouldn't qualify as a fat ass. Hell my cousin is so fat, that he had to lose about 200lbs just to qualify for Lapband Surgery.
By the time I was in 6th grade I was already 125lbs and was one of the fattest kids in my grade, and was like any child inundated with a bunch of shitty sugary and fattening foods. I'm now 6 feet and am at about 165lb and am regularly told how great my body looks, what do I do, what's my diet, etc. I'm in pretty good shape and am genearlly happy about my level of fitness and health.
I didn't say that just to come off as being an ass, just wanted to make a point. Telling people to quit the excuses, quit the shitty foods, the soda's... quit the bullshit, is not fat shaming.
Yes, it is. You are simply wrong.
Do you have evidence to support you position? People can't just keep saying this as if it's obvious when the scientific literature is reaching exactly the opposite conclusion. Where is your evidence? Please provide links to the studies in question.
Johnny Cage In The Shower
Member
Questioning someone for being lackluster or lacking anything for that matter (in this case motivation to get in shape, will power etc.) Does come off a little arrogant (douchy) if you ask me.
"I did it! You Kang do it too!" would've sufficed.
"I did it! You Kang do it too!" would've sufficed.
Devolution
Member
You just proved my point more than you know.
Can you please explain?
We need an operational definition of "complicated."
And I would agree. Obesity seems to be considerably influenced by these factors, however,
Absolutely, it was only brought up because it happened to be on the first page of OT at the exact same time we were talking.
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2235907/
There is also considerable evidence that metabolism changes due to weight gain have long lasting effects even once weight is lost:
http://ajcn.nutrition.org/content/72/5/1088.full
Among many other studies.
Exactly. It's really that simple.
Don't Laugh
Banned
I hope my future wife looks that hot after 3 kids
Hope you don't mind me jumping in Devo (PM me if you feel it's inappropriate)
Quoting you from earlier:
So let's detach your story from yourself and look at it objectively. From your description, everyone on your dad's side of the family are "fat asses."
Only one of the entire group was able to get slim -- you -- and even then you were obese as a child. From a statistical perspective, when every single family member is fat except one, this suggests the phenomena has a strong genetic or epigenetic predisposition.
If obesity were simply a choice that people make independently, then we would expect obesity to be scattered randomly throughout the population, with no clear familial ties. That's what we see with most phenomena which are not strongly genetic, such as emphysema (Which is instead primarily caused by smoking, a habit which itself shows only a moderate genetic predisposition and is also scattered more widely amongst the population). Of course, this isn't how you look at it, because you're you, and it's hard for anyone to step back and look at their own position from the outside. From a statistical, objective point of view, however, your personal experience is actually strong evidence for a significant genetic component to obesity.
Quoting you from earlier:
So let's detach your story from yourself and look at it objectively. From your description, everyone on your dad's side of the family are "fat asses."
Only one of the entire group was able to get slim -- you -- and even then you were obese as a child. From a statistical perspective, when every single family member is fat except one, this suggests the phenomena has a strong genetic or epigenetic predisposition.
If obesity were simply a choice that people make independently, then we would expect obesity to be scattered randomly throughout the population, with no clear familial ties. That's what we see with most phenomena which are not strongly genetic, such as emphysema (Which is instead primarily caused by smoking, a habit which itself shows only a moderate genetic predisposition and is also scattered more widely amongst the population). Of course, this isn't how you look at it, because you're you, and it's hard for anyone to step back and look at their own position from the outside. From a statistical, objective point of view, however, your personal experience is actually strong evidence for a significant genetic component to obesity.
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