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[PsychoSoldier]

I still feel like people are reading the worst possible interpretation into what she's saying here and using it as a springboard to complain about other things.

One can believe in food deserts, genetics role in the effort level needed to maintain fitness and the role society as a whole should play in improving the food available and still think that it was intended as a motivational message about how if she, a mom with three small children can maintain a healthy weight, then other people can.

Asking her to put in a bunch of caveats about the relative difficulty based on various factors into a photo caption seems to be a bit much.

 

[Opiate]

I still feel like people are reading the worst possible interpretation into what she's saying here and using it as a springboard to complain about other things.

One can believe in food deserts, genetics role in the effort level needed to maintain fitness and the role society as a whole should play in improving the food available and still think that it was intended as a motivational message about how if she, a mom with three small children can maintain a healthy weight, then other people can.

Asking her to put in a bunch of caveats about the relative difficulty based on various factors into a photo caption seems to be a bit much.

I don't think you need to put in caveats. As I said, even just simply saying "what's your reason?" rather than "what's your excuse?" has a significant connotative effect. However, Demon_Ice informs me that this is a common fitness meme, which I'm inclined to believe because I'm confident in his knowledge about the fitness community. That definitely changes the discussion about the original post, but at this point I've springboarded far beyond that.

 

[1cmanny1]

This is a non issue. Good on her.

 

[whitehawk]

Well...there's more to it than that.

Unhealthy food is generally cheaper for distributors than healthy food, thus it's cheaper for consumers. There are very real reasons why dietary regulation is harder in poorer communities than more wealthy ones.

I know it's an old post, but unhealthy food is not cheaper than healthy food. Unhealthy food is just easier and faster. If you shop smart at a grocery store it's healthier and cheaper. You just have to cook and prepare the food yourself.

 

[Johnny Cage In The Shower]

This is a non issue. Good on her.

Well no, it is an issue, it raises the question of how to reach the masses in the most effective and positive way. She failed to do that, albeit she did get a lot of attention and exposure by being a bit edgy and controversial with her slogan along with the photograph.

 

[PsychoSoldier]

I don't think you need to put in caveats. As I said, even just simply saying "what's your reason?" rather than "what's your excuse?" has a significant connotative effect. However, Demon_Ice informs me that this is a common fitness meme, which I'm inclined to believe because I'm confident in his knowledge about the fitness community. That definitely changes the discussion about the original post, but at this point I've springboarded far beyond that.

It definitely changes it but I think some people are drawing a huge number of conclusions about her intent based on this one bit of phrasing.

It could be meme-based or it could simply be unfortunate phrasing on her part.

Either way, the amount of bile directed her way seems highly out of proportion. At most she's being mildly aggressive about being motivational.

Edit

Well no, it is an issue, it raises the question of how to reach the masses in the most effective and positive way. She failed to do that, albeit she did get a lot of attention and exposure by being a bit edgy and controversial with her slogan along with the photograph.

She posted it on her FB and it spread from there--I don't think she was aiming at a mass market message here but just happened to get there. Secondly, there's always going to be some proportion of the intended audience that is going to react negatively to anything relating to being motivational about health and fitness---there are people genuinely aggreived for being fat shamed and there are also people looking for any excuse they can for not making changes.

 

[Opiate]

It definitely changes it but I think some people are drawing a huge number of conclusions about her intent based on this one bit of phrasing.

It could be meme-based or it could simply be unfortunate phrasing on her part.

Either way, the amount of bile directed her way seems highly out of proportion. At most she's being mildly aggressive about being motivational.

Sure, that's possible. I think others are also being too dismissive, insisting anyone insulted by it is just too sensitive.

In part, this is why I tend to immediately focus on the big picture in threads like this: the particulars of the specific OP are often very menial.

 

[Scrabble]

Hope you don't mind me jumping in Devo (PM me if you feel it's inappropriate)



Quoting you from earlier:



So let's detach your story from yourself and look at it objectively. From your description, everyone on your dad's side of the family are "fat asses."

Only one of the entire group was able to get slim -- you -- and even then you were obese as a child. From a statistical perspective, when every single family member is fat except one, this suggests the phenomena has a strong genetic or epigenetic predisposition.

If obesity were simply a choice that people make independently, then we would expect obesity to be scattered randomly throughout the population, with no clear familial ties. That's what we see with most phenomena which are not strongly genetic, such as emphysema (Which is instead primarily caused by smoking, a habit which show only a moderate genetic predisposition and is also scattered more widely amongst the population). Of course, this isn't how you look at it, because you're you, and it's hard for everyone to step back and look at their own position from the outside. From a statistical, objective point of view, your personal experience is actually strong evidence for a significant genetic component to obesity.

No, they are not fat because they got a shit roll of the lottery. They are fat because they don't exercise and they don't eat healthy foods. Sorry but let me correct my self, a great majority of my family is fat. You want to know the one's who aren't? The few who do exercise, my uncle runs marathons and is super skinny, so obviously he wasn't plagued with some genetic curse like you guys seem to make it out to be. Now obviously if your born with some illness such as asthma, a heart condition, etc than of course in those cases your genetics are going to play a larger role in your overall health, but most people don't fall in that camp. I just take issue with this blanket cop out of an excuse from most people that they are doomed for life because "they have bad genetics."

Also obesity has familial ties because it's your family that surrounds and inundates you with bad practices. If you have fat parents who make unhealthy lifestyle choices, the kid isn't going to be fat as a result of his parent's genetics. He's going to most likely be fat because he's forced to be around and face the brunt of those unhealthy lifestyle choices. I wasn't fat as a child because I had bad genetics, I was fat because I ate 2-3 bags of flaming hot Cheetos daily, add to that pizza rolls, bagel bites, etc and you have a recipe for an unhealthy fat kid. Then I got older, I started eating better, I started exercising, and suddenly I'm in incredible shape and am super proud of my body. Hmm imagine that.

 

[Madness]

Well no, it is an issue, it raises the question of how to reach the masses in the most effective and positive way. She failed to do that, albeit she did get a lot of attention and exposure by being a bit edgy and controversial with her slogan along with the photograph.

She posted it on her Facebook so her friends/family/followers would see. It's not her fault that fat acceptance blogs and feminist blogs seized upon it and it took a life of it's own.

She didn't fail at anything. She chose the way SHE WANTED to express her views in her own. Sorry if it wasn't as positive as you would've liked it.

 

[Demon Ice]

So let's detach your story from yourself and look at it objectively. From your description, everyone on your dad's side of the family are "fat asses."

Only one of the entire group was able to get slim -- you -- and even then you were obese as a child. From a statistical perspective, when every single family member is fat except one, this suggests the phenomena has a strong genetic or epigenetic predisposition.

If obesity were simply a choice that people make independently, then we would expect obesity to be scattered randomly throughout the population, with no clear familial ties. That's what we see with most phenomena which are not strongly genetic, such as emphysema (Which is instead primarily caused by smoking, a habit which itself shows only a moderate genetic predisposition and is also scattered more widely amongst the population). Of course, this isn't how you look at it, because you're you, and it's hard for anyone to step back and look at their own position from the outside. From a statistical, objective point of view, however, your personal experience is actually strong evidence for a significant genetic component to obesity.

I don't think he was trying to argue the fact that there are genetic factors that promote gaining weight. I could be wrong but I thought he was demonstrating that even though his father's side of the family DOES have those strong obesogenic genetic factors, he was able to work off the weight via diet and exercise.

Basically I interpreted him as saying good diet + exercise > genetic factors in terms of what has a greater effect on one's fitness. Obviously that's a blanket statement which is hardly proven by a single anecdote (even though I personally also agree with it being true in the vast majority of cases), but that's the point I got from his post.

Edit: Ah, he posted before me. Feel free to ignore this.

 

[Devolution]

No, they are not fat because they got a shit roll of the lottery. They are fat because they don't exercise and they don't eat healthy foods. Sorry but let me correct my self, a great majority of my family is fat. You want to know the one's who aren't? The few who do exercise, my uncle runs marathons and is super skinny, so obviously he wasn't plagued with some genetic curse like you guys seem to make it out to be. Now obviously if your born with some illness such as asthma, a heart condition, etc than of course in those cases your genetics are going to play a larger role in your overall health, but most people don't fall in that camp. I just take issue with this blanket cop out of an excuse from most people that their doomed for life because "they have bad genetics."

Also obesity has familial ties because it's your family that surrounds and inundates you with bad practices. If you have fat parents who make unhealthy lifestyle choices, the kid isn't going to be fat as a result of his parent's genetics. He's going to most likely be fat because he's forced to be around and face the brunt of those unhealthy lifestyle choices. I wasn't fat as a child because I had bad genetics, I was fat because I ate 2-3 bags of flaming hot Cheetos daily, add to that pizza rolls, bagel bites, etc and you have a recipe for an unhealthy fat kid. Then I got older, I started eating better, I started exercising, and suddenly I'm in incredible shape and am super proud of my body. Hmm imagine that.

I won the genetic lottery and was reinforced by my parents to eat a specific way. Dietary considerations and exercise are actually foreign concepts to me but no one's breathing down my neck about it because I'm not and haven't been visibly overweight. The worst I got was "eat a sandwich or 5" but that was still pretty rare and any check ups to the doc mentioned no need of eating more or working out. My vitals were always "perfect." I consider myself privileged. You grew up in an entirely different situation but...

Just because you broke a vicious cycle doesn't nullify the existence of said cycle and how genetics and exposure to various habits as a child can make their mark on a person.

 

[Opiate]

No, they are not fat because they got a shit roll of the lottery. They are fat because they don't exercise and they don't eat healthy foods. Sorry but let me correct my self, a great majority of my family is fat. You want to know the one's who aren't? The few who do exercise, my uncle runs marathons and is super skinny, so obviously he wasn't plagued with some genetic curse like you guys seem to make it out to be. Now obviously if your born with some illness such as asthma, a heart condition, etc than of course in those cases your genetics are going to play a larger role in your overall health, but most people don't fall in that camp. I just take issue with this blanket cop out of an excuse from most people that their doomed for life because "they have bad genetics."

Obviously people become obese because they consume more calories than they use. That part is simple. The question would be why they do that. Alcoholism has a reasonably strong genetic predisposition (in a way that cigarette smoking does not, interestingly enough), but when stated simplistically the solution is simply to not drink alcohol. Problem solved!

In both cases, this is a very superficial observation: the question should be why they drink (or eat) anyway, even when they are informed that their behavior is deleterious. That question, by contrast, is much more complicated.

Also obesity has familial ties because it's your family that surrounds and inundates you with bad practices.

What I can tell you is that scientific literature is not reaching this conclusion. You're going to have to provide evidence for your position.

 

[Rafterman]

Yes, it is. You are simply wrong.

Do you have evidence to support you position? People can't just keep saying this as if it's obvious when the scientific literature is reaching exactly the opposite conclusion. Where is your evidence? Please provide links to the studies in question.

I'm not wrong. Burning more calories than you consume causes weight loss, and that's all the scientific evidence you need. How many calories you put into your body is 100 percent your responsibility. There is nothing complicated about it. It's not genetics that people are stuffing their faces with more calories than they can possibly burn. Now please explain to me how a significant portion of weight loss is out of your control?

People are fat because they eat like shit, they eat too much, they don't work out or all of the above. Genetics are a crutch used to excuse these bad behaviors. It doesn't matter how fat you are or how many are in your family tree. If you eat better, less, and exercise, you will lose weight...genetics be damned.

Ever see the biggest loser? Ever hear of lap band? These are examples where extremely obese people, who could never lose weight on their own, suddenly are dropping hundreds of pounds. Why? Because they are forced to reduce their caloric intake and exercise. Losing weight isn't easy, but it's sure as hell not complicated. It takes willpower,discipline,and determination, but it's absolutely in the individuals control.

 

[Opiate]

I don't think he was trying to argue the fact that there are genetic factors that promote gaining weight. I could be wrong but I thought he was demonstrating that even though his father's side of the family DOES have those strong obesogenic genetic factors, he was able to work off the weight via diet and exercise.

Yes, that's what he was trying to demonstrate. What I'm suggesting is that this is how it looks from the inside from his personal perspective. From an external, objective perspective, what it looks like is that obesity runs in families.

Basically I interpreted him as saying good diet + exercise > genetic factors in terms of what has a greater effect on one's fitness. Obviously that's a blanket statement which is hardly proven by a single anecdote (even though I personally also agree with it being true in the vast majority of cases), but that's the point I got from his post.

Well, let's use his anecdote some more then. I'm going to guess reasonably that very few -- if any -- of his relatives are super happy about being fat. Very few people are.

But of those people, only one actually succeeded in losing weight. If he has 12 "fat ass" family members on his family's side (choosing that number randomly), that suggests only 1/12 managed to escape the obesity trap. In turn, this suggests the opposite conclusion, that escaping the obesity trap is actually quite hard, and that 11/12 people will fail.

I mean, if we're just going to use his personal anecdote as our sample case.

 

[Opiate]

I'm not wrong. Burning more calories than you consume causes weight loss, and that's all the scientific evidence you need. How many calories you put into your body is 100 percent your responsibility. There is nothing complicated about it. It's not genetics that people are stuffing their faces with more calories than they can possibly burn. Now please explain to me how a significant portion of weight loss is out of your control?

People are fat because they eat like shit, they eat too much, they don't work out or all of the above. Genetics are a crutch used to excuse these bad behaviors. It doesn't matter how fat you are or how many are in your family tree. If you eat better, less, and exercise, you will lose weight...genetics be damned.

Ever see the biggest loser? Ever hear of lap band? These are examples where extremely obese people, who could never lose weight on their own, suddenly are dropping hundreds of pounds. Why? Because they are forced to reduce their caloric intake and exercise. Losing weight isn't easy, but it's sure as hell not complicated. It takes willpower,discipline,and determination, but it's absolutely in the individuals control.

I asked for scientific studies, please. I've already provided quite a few. What literature have you read that refutes those studies? Do you have prospective studies which suggest weak genetic links, for example? Perhaps a properly controlled study which suggests that metabolic rates are not altered long term by weight gain?

I do not care about prime time TV shows as if they are evidence of anything meaningful. I don't care about your anecdotes, I want science. Here are more for you, if somehow the 7 articles I've provided covering different aspects of this topic are not sufficient for you:

http://www.sciencemag.org/content/312/5771/279.short
http://www.sciencemag.org/content/280/5368/1374.short

 

[Johnny Cage In The Shower]

She posted it on her Facebook so her friends/family/followers would see. It's not her fault that fat acceptance blogs and feminist blogs seized upon it and it took a life of it's own.

She didn't fail at anything. She chose the way SHE WANTED to express her views in her own. Sorry if it wasn't as positive as you would've liked it.

But she did say in her own words that she wanted to reach out to (her friends) with a positive message. (Even if they are just her FB friends, they could be just 50 of them, a 100 or 300 or 3,000. They are still a large group of people she is reaching through social media) Alls I'm saying is, she could've been a lil' more careful with her wording to get the desired message she was going for.

 

[Demon Ice]

In turn, this suggests the opposite conclusion, that escaping the obesity trap is actually quite hard

Well yeah, nobody said it was easy. Even if you have "good" genes, losing weight is a long, slow process. That's just physiology.

and that 11/12 people will fail.

That depends on how many of his family members actually attempted to lose weight.

 

[Demon Ice]

I do not care about prime time TV shows as if they are evidence of anything meaningful. I don't care about your anecdotes, I want science.

http://www.plosmedicine.org/article/info:doi/10.1371/journal.pmed.1000332

We have previously shown that multiple genetic loci identified by genome-wide association studies (GWAS) increase the susceptibility to obesity in a cumulative manner. It is, however, not known whether and to what extent this genetic susceptibility may be attenuated by a physically active lifestyle.
.
.
.

Our study shows that living a physically active lifestyle is associated with a 40% reduction in the genetic predisposition to common obesity, as estimated by the number of risk alleles carried for any of the 12 recently GWAS-identified loci.

http://www.plosmedicine.org/article/info:doi/10.1371/journal.pmed.1001116

The association of the FTO risk allele with the odds of obesity is attenuated by 27% in physically active adults, highlighting the importance of PA in particular in those genetically predisposed to obesity.

Edit: Apologies for the double post.

Edit 2: Wait, did you want sources about how exercise can overcome genetic predisposition to weight gain or that there IS no genetic predisposition? You won't find any of the latter, genetic predisposition to weight gain is a well established fact.

 

[Scrabble]

Obviously people become obese because they consume more calories than they use. That part is simple. The question would be why they do that. Alcoholism has a reasonably strong genetic predisposition (in a way that cigarette smoking does not, interestingly enough), but when stated simplistically the solution is simply to not drink alcohol. Problem solved!

In both cases, this is a very superficial observation: the question should be why they drink (or eat) anyway, even when they are informed that their behavior is deleterious. That question, by contrast, is much more complicated.



What I can tell you is that scientific literature is not reaching this conclusion. You're going to have to provide evidence for your position.

Because they are silly bitches? No but seriously you bring up a good point with alcohol. As someone whose father was a raging alcoholic I generally just stay away from the stuff and just smoke weed, but I don't understand how unhealthy eating habits would manifest in genetics, and if they do, why was I and others in my family able to break the "genetic curse" as people like to put it. Could it just be because I became strong willed and took responsibility for my health? Why do we as a society seem to be taking more and more responsibility away from ourselves to shift the focus elsewhere? I don't believe that others in my family couldn't as well equally take responsibility of their eating and exercise habits if they actually set out to do it. There is nothing in our genetics preventing us from taking control of our lives and making healthy decisions.

Also fat parents keeping unhealthy food in the house resulting in unhealthy children isn't exactly a revelation in obesity. It's not "your bad genetics" that results in you being overweight as a child, it's being surrounded by all those yummy treats and having unmonitored access to unhealthy and fattening foods. Not to mention children are more likely to take after their parents in terms of lifestyle choices. If a father does a bad job setting an example by not exercising, than most likely the child is going to carry on with that same practice. It's not a genetic issue. It's an environment and parenting issue.

 

[Opiate]

That depends on how many of his family members actually attempted to lose weight.

Right, I'm operating under the assumption that very few people actively like to be obese. If the other 11 actively enjoy it, then fine, but that is quite unlikely. More likely, the other 11 would certainly like to lose weight, but haven't.

We have to operationally define words like "attempt" or "try." Let's say I'm overweight. If I would like to lose weight but can't muster the will power to do it, does that mean I didn't try? How much "try" do you need to put in before you've proven you'd like to lose weight?

 

[Demon Ice]

Right, I'm operating under the assumption that very few people actively like to be obese. If the other 11 actively enjoy it, then fine, but that is quite unlikely. More likely, the other 11 would certainly like to lose weight, but haven't.

We have to operationally define words like "attempt" or "try." Let's say I'm overweight. If I would like to lose weight but can't muster the will power to do it, does that mean I didn't try? How much "try" do you need to put in before you've proven you'd like to lose weight?

My knee-jerk definition would be to say they actually went and exercised, but I concede that building up the will / confidence to do so is an often neglected step in that process.

 

[Opiate]

http://www.plosmedicine.org/article/info:doi/10.1371/journal.pmed.1000332

Yes, this strongly supports my position. The conclusion of the article explicitly states that there is a genetic predisposition to obesity.

http://www.plosmedicine.org/article/info:doi/10.1371/journal.pmed.1001116

Right, but I'm assuming he wants to post studies that refute my position. Both of these studies explicitly reference specific genetic alleles and their observed association with increased incidence of obesity. From the second article:

The FTO gene harbors the strongest known susceptibility locus for obesity.

Again, not only does it reference a specific gene (and associated phenotype), but makes reference to the fact that there are still other genes which also affect incidence of obesity. There's plenty of evidence to support my position, I'm just asking for studies which counter it.

 

[Demon Ice]

Yes, this strongly supports my position. The conclusion of the article explicitly states that there is a genetic predisposition to obesity.



Right, but I'm assuming he wants to post studies that refute my position. Both of these studies explicitly reference specific genetic alleles and their observed association with increased incidence of obesity. There's plenty of evidence to support my position, I'm just asking for studies which counter it.

That was my misunderstanding. I thought you wanted articles that demonstrate that physical activity overcomes a genetic disposition for weight gain.

If he's trying to actually convince you that there are NO genetic factors that promote weight gain, he's fighting an uphill battle because those are well established fact.

I realize the point I'm trying to make is a bit different from his now.

 

[Scrabble]

Yes, that's what he was trying to demonstrate. What I'm suggesting is that this is how it looks from the inside from his personal perspective. From an external, objective perspective, what it looks like is that obesity runs in families.



Well, let's use his anecdote some more then. I'm going to guess reasonably that very few -- if any -- of his relatives are super happy about being fat. Very few people are.

But of those people, only one actually succeeded in losing weight. If he has 12 "fat ass" family members on his family's side (choosing that number randomly), that suggests only 1/12 managed to escape the obesity trap. In turn, this suggests the opposite conclusion, that escaping the obesity trap is actually quite hard, and that 11/12 people will fail.

I mean, if we're just going to use his personal anecdote as our sample case.

I didn't say just one person in my family isn't fat, I said that there are a few who aren't. My uncle being one of them, which is a result of his diet and exercise. His wife and children also aren't fat, largely because he instills good practices and sets examples by regularly exercising and running marathons. It's not because of his genetics, but whatever if people want to choose that they are dictated by their genetics than so be it.

 

[Opiate]

That was my misunderstanding. I thought you wanted articles that demonstrate that physical activity overcomes a genetic disposition for weight gain.

If he's trying to actually convince you that there are NO genetic factors that promote weight gain, he's fighting an uphill battle because those are well established fact.

I realize the point I'm trying to make is a bit different from his now.

Yes, I completely agree that genetics are not absolutely in control of obesity; in fact, they're not absolutely in charge of virtually anything. As stated earlier, even something as seemingly straightforward as height can be dramatically altered by dietary, physical, and supplemental choices. Without even deliberately trying, Americans have gained nearly 3'' in height on average over the last century.

We're really talking about a spectrum here, with some things having weak genetic predisposition (such as smoking) to very strong genetic predisposition (Such as eye color, which is practically Mendelian). On this spectrum of "very weak" to "very strong," my understanding of the literature is that the genetic link to obesity would be described as "moderately strong." This is before discussing epigenetic factors as well, which are also not variables we would meaningfully describe as "choices."

 

[Demon Ice]

I didn't say just one person in my family isn't fat, I said that there are a few who aren't. My uncle being one of them, which is a result of his diet and exercise. His wife and children also aren't fat, largely because he instills good practices and sets examples by regularly exercising and running marathons. It's not because of his genetics, but whatever if people want to choose that they are dictated by their genetics than so be it.

Nobody said genetics was the end all be all decision maker about weight gain. A person with "good" genes can be overweight if they make poor lifestyle choices, and a person with "bad" genes can be in great shape if they make healthy choices.

The thing is, it's not a level playing field as far as weight gain vs food intake is concerned. You have people that can get away with eating whatever they want and barely gain weight, and vice-versa.

The point I was trying to make this whole time, which I think got lost, is that regardless of your genetic makeup, you will benefit from exercise and a healthy diet. So, linking back to the picture in the OP (which seems like years ago), I would say that "bad genes" is not a valid excuse to not exercise, because there is plenty of scientific literature that shows that physical activity more than compensates for genetic predisposition to weight gain.

 

[Opiate]

The point I was trying to make this whole time, which I think got lost, is that regardless of your genetic makeup, you will benefit from exercise and a healthy diet.

This is a good stopping point for me (I need to go to work tomorrow morning), but Ill just say that I completely agree with this, I think it's a very important point, and I would like to thank Demon Ice in particular for providing arguments and evidence that were not necessarily directly in line with my own thinking (talking to people who completely agree with me is boring).

 

[Devolution]

Nobody said genetics was the end all be all decision maker about weight gain. A person with "good" genes can be overweight if they make poor lifestyle choices, and a person with "bad" genes can be in great shape if they make healthy choices.

The thing is, it's not a level playing field as far as weight gain vs food intake is concerned. You have people that can get away with eating whatever they want and barely gain weight, and vice-versa.

The point I was trying to make this whole time, which I think got lost, is that regardless of your genetic makeup, you will benefit from exercise and a healthy diet. So, linking back to the picture in the OP (which seems like years ago), I would say that "bad genes" is not a valid excuse to not exercise, because there is plenty of scientific literature that shows that physical activity more than compensates for genetic predisposition to weight gain.

People can benefit, maybe it would make more sense to just say that some people have a hell of a lot more hurdles while others can walk unobstructed to the finish line.

 

[Demon Ice]

People can benefit, maybe it would make more sense to just say that some people have a hell of a lot more hurdles while others can walk unobstructed to the finish line.

I wouldn't say effective fitness is ever that easy for anybody. But I only have my experiences and observations to really rely on for that. It can be relatively easy, but I would never say it's easy or unobstructed in and of itself.

 

[RM8]

I find it hard to believe that genetics are such a strong factor when it varies wildly from country to country, even in close proximity. I just don't see it being a factor as strong as diet and activity level.

 

[Scrabble]

Nobody said genetics was the end all be all decision maker about weight gain. A person with "good" genes can be overweight if they make poor lifestyle choices, and a person with "bad" genes can be in great shape if they make healthy choices.

The thing is, it's not a level playing field as far as weight gain vs food intake is concerned. You have people that can get away with eating whatever they want and barely gain weight, and vice-versa.

The point I was trying to make this whole time, which I think got lost, is that regardless of your genetic makeup, you will benefit from exercise and a healthy diet. So, linking back to the picture in the OP (which seems like years ago), I would say that "bad genes" is not a valid excuse to not exercise, because there is plenty of scientific literature that shows that physical activity more than compensates for genetic predisposition to weight gain.

I agree, but the issue is that people far too often use "I got bad genes" as a crutch to not practice healthy eating habits or to not even bother with exercise. No matter how "bad your genes are" you will be healthy and fit if you so choose to take responsibility of actions. Also it's not as uneven a level playing field as you may think when it comes to just standard fitness. Your gene disposition should really only be a considerate factor if your an athlete. For everyone else simply trying achieve and maintain a good level of fitness, it shouldn't even factor into the discussion.

 

[Devolution]

I wouldn't say effective fitness is ever that easy for anybody. But I only have my experiences and observations to really rely on for that.

Exercising and being more healthy is challenging but some people can get away with being the minimal amount of healthy without really trying, if you're just going by weight reqs/BMI, body fat% and the like.

 

[Demon Ice]

I agree, but the issue is that people far too often use "I got bad genes" as a crutch to not practice healthy eating habits or to not even bother with exercise. No matter how "bad your genes are" you will be healthy and fit if you so choose to take responsibility of actions.

Absolutely agree there.

Also it's not as uneven a level playing field as you may think when it comes to just standard fitness. Your gene disposition should really only be a considerate factor if your an athlete. For everyone else simply trying achieve and maintain a good level of fitness, it shouldn't even factor into the discussion.

That sounds like you're talking about genes regarding how effectively and to what extent an athlete can build muscle/endurance. Those are different from the genes regarding how the body processes a high energy diet and deals with excess calories.

Exercising and being more healthy is challenging but some people can get away with being the minimal amount of healthy without really trying, if you're just going by weight reqs/BMI, body fat% and the like.

Sure, no argument there. That boils down to what your definition of fitness is. I admit when I said fitness I meant building lean body mass. There are definitely people that can not work out and still remain slender and even underweight despite their diet, absolutely.

 

[tokyostomp]

Cue the Kim K hate next. She is in shape after her baby right?

 

[Zoe]

She posted it on her FB and it spread from there--I don't think she was aiming at a mass market message here but just happened to get there.

It was posted to her business account, not her personal account.
https://www.facebook.com/MariaMKang

 

[PogiJones]

Right, I'm operating under the assumption that very few people actively like to be obese. If the other 11 actively enjoy it, then fine, but that is quite unlikely. More likely, the other 11 would certainly like to lose weight, but haven't.

We have to operationally define words like "attempt" or "try." Let's say I'm overweight. If I would like to lose weight but can't muster the will power to do it, does that mean I didn't try? How much "try" do you need to put in before you've proven you'd like to lose weight?

I haven't read everything you've written, so forgive me if I go in a different direction than you intended.

The lack of sufficient willpower is not a valid avenue to attack a message meant to build willpower. "What's your excuse for not being willing to do it?" is the full question in the OP. "Because I'm not willing to," is an invalid reason to say the message should be altered.

Diet and exercise can overcome genetic predispositions in the vast majority of cases. [Citation needed, I know.] What hinders people from doing so is the lack of drive, as you mentioned. What's the purpose of shame, motivation, etc.? It's to build enough willpower in those who don't already have it to accomplish what they otherwise would not have. Messages like this can be powerful motivators.

So yes, while exercise may come easier to some than to others, and while some may naturally be able to muster the willpower than others, that fact does nothing to attack a message for being unempathetic. It's like attacking Tylenol for failing to take into account that some people need morphine before they feel better.

 

[PsychoSoldier]

I'm not sure why it's that important from a personal health standpoint the degree to which you have agency over whether or not you are obese.

You've been dealt the hand you've been dealt, and you can either use that as an excuse (or perhaps reason) for your health or lack thereof or attempt to overcome them. I feel like that was what she was trying to express, if perhaps a bit inelegantly.

There are truly people in situations that are untenable for healthy living but I don't think there was any intent in this image caption to dismiss this fact.

 

[RedAssedApe]

i'm ashamed. have 0 kids and will never look that good. i still play video games too. boo

 

[akira28]

I was sort of hoping that this thread would have more pics. Theres like 18 pages of words.

 

[Randy Monk]

I was sort of hoping that this thread would have more pics. Theres like 18 pages of words.

 

[Trey]

Good on that man accepting the mantle at 70. I'm surprised his body still had such muscle building capability left. Never mind the skeletal structure.

I haven't read everything you've written, so forgive me if I go in a different direction than you intended.

The lack of sufficient willpower is not a valid avenue to attack a message meant to build willpower. "What's your excuse for not being willing to do it?" is the full question in the OP. "Because I'm not willing to," is an invalid reason to say the message should be altered.

Diet and exercise can overcome genetic predispositions in the vast majority of cases. [Citation needed, I know.] What hinders people from doing so is the lack of drive, as you mentioned. What's the purpose of shame, motivation, etc.? It's to build enough willpower in those who don't already have it to accomplish what they otherwise would not have. Messages like this can be powerful motivators.

So yes, while exercise may come easier to some than to others, and while some may naturally be able to muster the willpower than others, that fact does nothing to attack a message for being unempathetic. It's like attacking Tylenol for failing to take into account that some people need morphine before they feel better.

The purpose, I find, of these motivational flourishes you speak of are quite simply to shame people and simultaneously inflate one's own ego.

You can take this very same "meme" and apply it to school or finances like Opiate has maintained for a few pages and others have been saying since the beginning in order to further contextualize the condescending nature of the question. To even frame not being in shape as something that needs to be excused is aggressive in the first place.

Would "why should I have to?" be a valid response?

 

[140.85]

Here it is.

 

[davepoobond]

Obviously they are better people than the rest of the fatties in the world. Do they really need extra points for rubbing it in everyone's faces?

 

[THRILLH0]

If obesity were simply a choice that people make independently, then we would expect obesity to be scattered randomly throughout the population, with no clear familial ties. That's what we see with most phenomena which are not strongly genetic, such as emphysema (Which is instead primarily caused by smoking, a habit which itself shows only a moderate genetic predisposition and is also scattered more widely amongst the population). Of course, this isn't how you look at it, because you're you, and it's hard for anyone to step back and look at their own position from the outside. From a statistical, objective point of view, however, your personal experience is actually strong evidence for a significant genetic component to obesity.

You could use same logic to argue that racism is genetic.

 

[Gustav]

What's it matter to her if other people are not fit or have an excuse? They can do whatever the fuck they want.

 

[dragonelite]

Change man into person to make it more modern and gender neutral.

 

[Phat Michael]

Obviously they are better people than the rest of the fatties in the world. Do they really need extra points for rubbing it in everyone's faces?

I think it's meant to inspire you to work out, not to rub it in people's faces.

 

[neorej]

I think it's meant to inspire you to work out, not to rub it in people's faces.

I think it kind of fails to transmit that message.

 

[Phat Michael]

I think it kind of fails to transmit that message.

Not to me. They have all these kinds of inspirational photos at my fitness first and now at my new golds gym. Definitely puts my excuses into perspective. If she can do it, I can at least try my best to do it.

 

[Haly]

I think it's meant to inspire you to work out, not to rub it in people's faces.

That's not how inspiration works, it's pretty much guilt-shaming. Which, to the right person, can be a powerful motivator, but I think it's usually viewed as arrogance more than anything else.

One of the benefits of working out is an improved sense of self-satisfaction, and there is no easier way to extend that than by juxtaposing yourself with those who lack what you have.