MilesWebber
Member
OP, you should read about Schrödinger's cat.
How the fuck can you pretend a baby fetus is not a person EVER?
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Maybe because they always start off with stupid arguments that don't make any fucking sense? Maybe about one in 20 of the posts in this thread are actually sane.
crisdecuba
Member
On a mobile device, so I'll be brief and come back later.
I disagree with all three of your "I believe / don't believe" statements.
One problem I have with them are that they are too simplistic / black and white.
Will type more later. I hate virtual keyboards...
I disagree with all three of your "I believe / don't believe" statements.
One problem I have with them are that they are too simplistic / black and white.
Will type more later. I hate virtual keyboards...
No, a fetus does not have any thoughts or any feelings whatsoever. A fetus is not, at that stage, a reasoning being.
Unless Hitler jerked off into socks as well. Daily. Or perhaps even more often, depending on who you are (not me, though). Hitler has the blood of all those people on his hands, plus in his socks.
MapleMerchant
Neo Member
Just for a couple years... let's give it a try. Hmmmmm?
Duane Cunningham
Member
OP, would you like to, I dunno, participate in this thread you created? Several people on page one asked you for clarification on different things or made interesting points and you chose to respond to a joke post instead then disappear.
It's like you conceived this thread in a moment of passion then decided you didn't really want it anymore.
It's like you conceived this thread in a moment of passion then decided you didn't really want it anymore.
Well, yeah, except for the person that's dead when it's over.
I'm vehemently against abortion, but I'm also against laws prohibiting it -- simply because I want the government to stay the fuck out of peoples' lives. The situation put in place by Roe v. Wade is not perfect, but it is a workable compromise I guess. I guess what I feel is that in a healthy society, abortion would be rare and almost always for justifiable reasons, i.e. health of the mother, rape, severe birth defect detected. But we are not a healthy society. Abortions are performed as simple birth control, as a means of avoiding personal responsibility. Public funds subsidize the industry. And we are taught to be numb to the facilities in our midst, the sole purpose of which is to destroy unborn people before someone gets saddled with the burden of caring for them. These are the attitudes of an unhealthy society:
Again, imposing the government and criminal penalties is not the right way to deal with abortion. I oppose the attitudes and proposals of most 'pro-lifer' types as much as those who pray, 'thank God for abortionists.' ( example example ) But while I agree women should have the right to control their own bodies, and the authority to make choices about their own bodies ... how about better controlling your bodies and making better choices before you get pregnant? (I know .. a lot of you won't like that suggestion. But is that not the foundation for imposing and enforcing child support judgments against men??) I wish for a world in which responsible behavior on the front end would prevent the need for millions of abortions yearly, done solely for the sake of convenience and an easier life, on the back end. But since that's never gonna happen without MAJOR social upheaval, I guess in the short term we need morning-after pills in a big freebie bowl at the exit of all restaurants, bars, etc.
The OP is an asshole so it's for the best everyone just ignore him. He posted this about Indonesia the other day:
That's kind of messed up. Why would someone make the same mistake again and again?
SquiddyCracker
Banned
Because they're irresponsible.
Thank God they have access to abortions though, so they don't end up having to care for a child *shudder*
Greater access to contraception would lead to a lower number of abortions. However, the religious pro-lifers are a part of the problem, as anything advocating pre-marital or non-procreative sex is an abomination to them and actively block education and usage of them. The morning after pill is considered murder to these people.
The Librarian
Banned
dat northeastExcept that those against abortion try to stop that prevention as well. So no safe sex ed, no free or low cost contraception or birth control. Not surprising the states with the most teen pregnancies and STD's are in Red states.
CDC pdf
It's not the same thing. If life is precious then the people who are against abortion should be trying to save every life, regardless if it's artificial or not. If all life begins at conception, why is a life that's extracted artificially worth any less than done naturally?
This is my perspective. If it's an unwanted pregnancy, it's better to have an abortion. Otherwise when the child is born, it's both the mother and child that suffer.
rudieboy77
Member
Has science determined when a fetus achieves sentience/consciousness? To my religious values that is when life begins, when self awareness begins.
SquiddyCracker
Banned
It doesn't make very much sense, yeah.
"Ban abortions!"
("Reduce funding to programs that prevent pregnancies")
Majima Everywhere System
Member
Ha ha, wow your views are nutty.
I guess that's true. Better have a woman who had 4 abortions instead of a woman who has 4 kids she barely cares about.
I wonder how many people who are pro life ("You're murdering a living being!!") are also vegetarians/vegans.
My opinion on the matter is that as long as it doesn't happen too late in pregnancy (unless medical reasons yada yada) it's all cool. It's just a non sentient lump of cells. Animals that get slaughtered for a McDonalds hamburger have more personhood.
My opinion on the matter is that as long as it doesn't happen too late in pregnancy (unless medical reasons yada yada) it's all cool. It's just a non sentient lump of cells. Animals that get slaughtered for a McDonalds hamburger have more personhood.
Or anti-capital punishment as well.
The only thing that seperates us from other members of the animal kingdom is our consciousness. The best we know is our consciousness is housed in the brain. Therefore, once brain activity starts, usually end of second start of third trimester, the fetus, with no rights, becomes a human with all such recognized rights.
That is my stance.
That is my stance.
Can't tell if serious.
Obviously, noone in their right mind would support an abortion in, say, the 8th month of pregnancy. Likewise, noone in their right mind would think the morning after pill is the same as taking someone's life.
Somewhere in between, abortion should no longer be an option. People who think abortion should not be an option ever, I cannot take seriously.
Somewhere in between, abortion should no longer be an option. People who think abortion should not be an option ever, I cannot take seriously.
Agreed. And there should be legislation from both sides targeted at reducing the number of abortions required. It's my biggest issue with the pro-life community. I completely understand where they are coming from and why they believe what they do, however to them good is the enemy of perfect. You have conservatives who are unwilling to spend a little money on education and social programs focused on dramatically reducing the number of unwanted pregnancies. They attempted this with abstinence programs, but that was a very poorly thought out ideal.
It should be a woman's right to terminate if they choose to before the point where the law considers it alive. But at the end of the day you are terminating a life. It shouldn't be dismissed as just meat until that point. If you didn't terminate it would be alive so you are killing it.
Just to be clear though I am pro-choice. And anyone that is pro-life should be willing to adopt unwanted children. If not they shouldn't judge people that choose to abort.
Just to be clear though I am pro-choice. And anyone that is pro-life should be willing to adopt unwanted children. If not they shouldn't judge people that choose to abort.
Frankly, I'm a little confused on how you can have these thoughts and be "100% pro choice", but you make take solace in the fact that the courts have considered some of your questions and ruled that you can't abort a fetus after it reaches the point of "viability", which is defined as the ability to survive outside of the uterus.
At some point clearly it's a human being. Some say conception, some say after it's born. I think the vast majority say somewhere in between and that's where I fall. I was generally pro choice up until having my own kids. Especially with the sonogram technology today i dont see how anyone can ignore the facts. I'm still essentially pro choice I just want MUCH more restriction and the later stages.
Both extremes can get nutty but I find the extremists on the pro-choice/abortion side to be more barbaric. Late term abortions are murder, I think it's clear. But in the US some people still lose it when any restrictions at all are suggested. When they try and pretend a 20 week old fetus is analogous to a clump of cells it makes rational people cringe.
Then of course you have the fools on the other end spouting either religious justification or nonsense badly disguised as "science" and want to ban it altogether regardless of circumstances. They dont help.
Both extremes can get nutty but I find the extremists on the pro-choice/abortion side to be more barbaric. Late term abortions are murder, I think it's clear. But in the US some people still lose it when any restrictions at all are suggested. When they try and pretend a 20 week old fetus is analogous to a clump of cells it makes rational people cringe.
Then of course you have the fools on the other end spouting either religious justification or nonsense badly disguised as "science" and want to ban it altogether regardless of circumstances. They dont help.
TheSpaceBetween
Member
This would be ideal, but society is way more reactionary to problems than it is preventative. Take our health for example. If everyone exercised and ate well and did yoga and meditation, drug companies and others that take in massive profits off of people's illnesses wouldn't be as important or profitable. But as it is, we simply cannot control ourselves, and the world we live in is a reflection of those choices unfortunately.
rudieboy77
Member
In my opinion the biggest thing that some folks ignore is the woman's role in this. It is ultimately their life, body and privacy first. I think people ignoring this comes from a long held attitude that women are somehow less than and even worse a type of property. So their opinions are secondary.
Google says the current consensus is that sentience begins at about 15-24 months after the baby is born. Now what are you going to believe?
TheSpaceBetween
Member
It's the quality that's the problem, not the quantity.
BigEvilTurtle
Banned
Aborting a fetus is just as "bad" as cumming in a sock. All those sperm cells? Dead. Potential life, much like fetuses, destroyed. No sentience, no consciousness, and solely belonging to the person harboring it. Men have the choice to kill technically living beings, why can't women? They are our bodies and we are entitled to do whatever we like with them and anything feeding off them.
These are my views. Pro choice all the way, baby.
These are my views. Pro choice all the way, baby.
quickwhips
Member
I get what your saying but also a better solution than abortions would be making people apply to be able to have kids. But then you would have force something on the population. I mean so many people who don't have money or want to have kids have them....either way its messed up. What are you thoughts on morning after pills op?
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NinjaFridge
Unconfirmed Member
There is quite a difference between a sperm cell and a fetus so I don't think it's a fair comparison.
rudieboy77
Member
I care more about the planet.
And, you cannot control quality, but you might be able to control quantity. It should be done.
The One and Done
Member
A fetus doesn't have thoughts and feelings and it's not a person; it's a potential person like semen.
I wonder wife Pro Lifers aren't picketing the bedrooms of teenage boys since masturbation should be considered a murderous act too. I murder a few mill this weekend.
I wonder wife Pro Lifers aren't picketing the bedrooms of teenage boys since masturbation should be considered a murderous act too. I murder a few mill this weekend.
And who will choose the method of control on quantity and the punishment for ignoring it?
RurouniZel
Asks questions so Ezalc doesn't have to
I'm of the position of Pro-Choice in most circumstances.
Like many people I wouldn't want abortion to be a thing people do just because they've decided having a baby is too much work or money or whatever. Sexual intercourse comes with responsibility, and abortion should never be used simply as a means to skirt responsibility.
However it is my understanding that the vast majority of people seeking abortions do not do so because of that. It's often because of two very justifiable reasons, though the second one of these is up to personal decision rather than a clear right and wrong.
1) The woman in question was raped, and should not have to endure having their entire life ruined because criminals assaulted her. She did not willfully take on the risk of becoming pregnant, and should not have her entire life ruined by being forced to carry the child of rapist(s).
2) Sometimes a woman's life is in imminent danger, and she does not wish to die. I think many men in this world just don't get how dangerous birth can be on a woman. Millions of women throughout history have died giving birth. I personally believe that a woman has the right to put their own safety first in these situations.
I personally believe that those two scenarios above are perfectly valid and justifiable reasons to choosing to have an abortion, which is why I consider myself Pro-Choice.
Like many people I wouldn't want abortion to be a thing people do just because they've decided having a baby is too much work or money or whatever. Sexual intercourse comes with responsibility, and abortion should never be used simply as a means to skirt responsibility.
However it is my understanding that the vast majority of people seeking abortions do not do so because of that. It's often because of two very justifiable reasons, though the second one of these is up to personal decision rather than a clear right and wrong.
1) The woman in question was raped, and should not have to endure having their entire life ruined because criminals assaulted her. She did not willfully take on the risk of becoming pregnant, and should not have her entire life ruined by being forced to carry the child of rapist(s).
2) Sometimes a woman's life is in imminent danger, and she does not wish to die. I think many men in this world just don't get how dangerous birth can be on a woman. Millions of women throughout history have died giving birth. I personally believe that a woman has the right to put their own safety first in these situations.
I personally believe that those two scenarios above are perfectly valid and justifiable reasons to choosing to have an abortion, which is why I consider myself Pro-Choice.
That is not a question worth answering as it is subjective as fuck. Like all my opinions.
I submit that you change your opinion to: We all need to terraform Jupiter's moon of Titan and export surplus population there on a volunteer basis.
(note: I just watched Oblivion)
AlimNassor
Banned
It's not a person until it turns into a baby. There are limits to abortion, if a child is pretty much mature and ready to be born then, no to abortion.
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